Sony HDR-UX7 now released - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 36 Old 03-07-2007, 09:10 AM - Thread Starter
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BH Photo has them in stock.
Does anyone own one yet that can post first impressions ?
And also, anyone know if Vegas 7 Movie Studio Suite Platinum supports this camera in particular and the AVCHD format in general ?

I am curious to know also if the PS3 can play back discs recorded on this camera. ?

I am trying to get away from tape-based products.

TIA for any and all.

The Slothmeister.
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post #2 of 36 Old 04-05-2007, 02:36 PM
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I am also looking for feedback on this camera. There is not much review on it. I am debating between the HDRUX7 and HDRSR1. In Canada, the HDRSR1 cost $400 more and I am not sure if it is worth the extra cost. Since the HDRUX7 is newer, I would assume it has better features.
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post #3 of 36 Old 04-07-2007, 05:29 AM
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I have the UX7 and about all I can say is I am impressed with the 6.1MP photos. The UX7's features are abundant and its taking me a bit to get use to but then again this is the first camcorder I have ever owned.

I only messed with the video one time and it looked great viewing it on the camcorder, but when I put the mini dvd into my pc drive and used a program called VLC Media Player it has a slight 1 second pause every 40 - 50 seconds... not enough to make it unviewable but very annoying. I also only used the SD SP mode.

Now I didnt have any more time to tinker with it but am planning on doing some more testing today and try and isolate where the hesitation is coming from... it could be VLC software and I tried using WMP but it froze.

Im hoping to test all SD modes at the very least and not really all that concerned about the HD... yes I did buy this for the HD but battery life is a problem to me when considering in SD HQ mode I had 143 minutes and then in HD HQ mode it was 122 minutes... that 21 minutes is important to me when Im limited to one battery. Before I go on my trip in 2 months I do plan on purchasing 2 of the high end NP-FH100 batteries so maybe after the vacation I might test the HD out. But I just dont feel it worth the risk of using it during the trip and end up not having enough juice for the day.

Ill post my results of the SD mode tests later tonight or tomorrow afternoon.
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post #4 of 36 Old 04-07-2007, 06:20 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MaXXimus View Post

I have the UX7 and about all I can say is I am impressed with the 6.1MP photos. The UX7's features are abundant and its taking me a bit to get use to but then again this is the first camcorder I have ever owned.

I only messed with the video one time and it looked great viewing it on the camcorder, but when I put the mini dvd into my pc drive and used a program called VLC Media Player it has a slight 1 second pause every 40 - 50 seconds... not enough to make it unviewable but very annoying. I also only used the SD SP mode.

Now I didnt have any more time to tinker with it but am planning on doing some more testing today and try and isolate where the hesitation is coming from... it could be VLC software and I tried using WMP but it froze.

Im hoping to test all SD modes at the very least and not really all that concerned about the HD... yes I did buy this for the HD but battery life is a problem to me when considering in SD HQ mode I had 143 minutes and then in HD HQ mode it was 122 minutes... that 21 minutes is important to me when Im limited to one battery. Before I go on my trip in 2 months I do plan on purchasing 2 of the high end NP-FH100 batteries so maybe after the vacation I might test the HD out. But I just dont feel it worth the risk of using it during the trip and end up not having enough juice for the day.

Ill post my results of the SD mode tests later tonight or tomorrow afternoon.

Edit: Stupid me, this is a miniDVD cam, not a tape-based one! Ignore this post!

If I were in your position, I would seriously consider taping in HD now (at least for your upcoming trip). I don't own this particular camera, but if you shoot in HD, you may still be able to capture via Firewire in SD mode (I would look for this in the manual and/or ask in forums, especially the Sony-specific ones). I also don't have an HDTV set or anything yet, but still, the main reason I recently bought an HDV camera (the Canon HV20) was because I was in the market for a new camcorder now and that eventually (sooner rather than later) HD will be easy to manipulate as computers get faster, cheaper, etc. And I know from hearing countless testimony from friends and family that "once you go HDTV, you can't go back." You will thank yourself for making the decision to go HD now vs. later, I think.

Since I still work in "SD mode," I needed a way to get SD footage from my HD camera. My initial plan was to create two captures to my computer: one in HD (an archive for future use) and one in SD (which I can use today). As I finished capturing (via Firewire) the HD version, I couldn't resist seeing what it looked like and couldn't wait for the SD capture. So I took a peek. I was shocked at how good it was! I was curious to see what the SD looked like in comparison. Since, in advance, I had already prepared a script (which can re-encode HD to SD), I ran it on the HD capture for a few minutes in order to get a sample (I'm a linux user). It, too, looked extremely good! Not only that, but I noticed the re-encoding took place nearly in realtime (1 second of footage =~ 1 second of processing time). Therefore, I no longer need to capture in SD (via Firewire). I subsequently burned this SD version onto standard DVD and it, too, looked extremely good! Since the Sony HDR-UX7 is not yet "computer friendly" (it soon will be, I'm sure), you will need to make sure the camera can "export" HD video to SD via Firewire. I would be surprised if it couldn't do this. If the manual and/or other UX7 owners say it can, I would run a few tests just to be sure. If it succeeds, then you are "ahead of the game"!
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post #5 of 36 Old 04-08-2007, 01:32 AM - Thread Starter
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I bought this camcorder one month ago right after my original post above and I have been playing with it extensively.
In a nutshell, the HDR-UX7 is one impressive little camcorder for a $1,200 pricepoint.

Let me preface this by saying that I am professional Television Maintenance Engineer by trade and I have been for the past 25 years.
I have seen and worked extensively on every format of both analog and digital video recording, both broadcast quality, prosumer, as well as consumer grade equipment.

Let me give you my reasons and opinions as to why I think this is the best bang for the buck little HD camcorder out there at the moment.

First and foremost, it is an optical recording device, and not tape based.
This alone IMHO, is reason enough to buy it.
Tape based formats will most likely be obsolete in another 2-3 years.
Optical and solid state recording is steadily gaining ground and is the wave of the future.
So, if you want to buy a soon-to-be obsolete product, then buy the VHS or Betamax of the near future and purchase a DV or HDV based TAPE transport recording device.
Why, you may ask ? I can state 3 very simple reasons in a nutshell.

1.) Reliability. Less mechanical moving parts means greater reliabilty.
This is a simple Engineering fact that can not be argued.

2.) LINEAR (tape) vs. NON-LINEAR (optical disc, Hard Disc, or solid state memory)
Remember the first time you skipped thru "chapters" on a DVD movie ?
You said to yourselves, wow, look. no rewinding or shuttling back and forth to find the segment that I'm looking for.
Since you bought a DVD player, how many VHS movies have you rented ?

3.) Archival quality. Optical discs are unaffected by magnetic fields , including the earth's own, or humidity. 2 important negatives that do affect any tape based product in storage.
That coupled with the latest in optical disc manufacturing standards ensures a much longer term archival record of your treasured recorded memories.

A word on the AVCHD format. To my trained eye, the latest MPEG-4, H.264, or AVCHD codecs, or whatever flavour you or Sony decides to call it, are every bit as good and in some scenarios, BETTER than the equivelant same source material encoded in MPEG-2.
It is, in a nutshell, a more storage-efficient format and as I said, IMHO, slightly higher quality method of recording.
I know the detractors out there will say, "well what about editing support ?" Well, it IS coming, and sooner than you think. within the next 6-12 months.

I can assure you that I know a lot of inside people in the manufacturing end of things and as we speak, all the major players out there, Sony, Apple, Avid, and Pinnacle have their software developers working on this round the clock as we speak (I'm talking about AVCHD editing products).

Let me make one thing clear. I am not taking anything away from the HV20 and the HC7 camcorders, the UX series main "competition", so to speak.

But if you take this camcorder, and could see and hear what I have been seeing and hearing coming out of it for the past month, coupled with a Sony PS3 for playback and a 60 or 70" SXRD XBR2 TV, which is my current setup ( I have the 70"), you will have one very nice state of the art entertainment system for several years to come.

That is all I have to say on the matter for now.
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post #6 of 36 Old 04-08-2007, 06:58 AM
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What about picture quality? I think that is the one are that your VHS-DVD analogy breaks down, and frankly PQ is the reason we're going HD in the first place. HDV has a higher bit rate, and less compression than AVCHD. I'm not partisan myself yet, as I'm shopping still, but having owned a DV camcorder, the PQ and editability of the format make HDV extremely attractive.
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post #7 of 36 Old 04-08-2007, 07:02 AM
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Taken from Sony's website:

"In Spring 2007, Sony AVCHD camcorder file import capability will be included in a free update for all registered Vegas 7 users."


Sidenote: The UX7 comes with software that will convert the AVCHD to MPEG2... what I dont understand is if they went that far why not add some more options, like MPEG4?
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post #8 of 36 Old 04-08-2007, 10:10 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by slothmeister View Post

I bought this camcorder one month ago right after my original post above and I have been playing with it extensively.
In a nutshell, the HDR-UX7 is one impressive little camcorder for a $1,200 pricepoint.

Let me preface this by saying that I am professional Television Maintenance Engineer by trade and I have been for the past 25 years.
I have seen and worked extensively on every format of both analog and digital video recording, both broadcast quality, prosumer, as well as consumer grade equipment.

Let me give you my reasons and opinions as to why I think this is the best bang for the buck little HD camcorder out there at the moment.

First and foremost, it is an optical recording device, and not tape based.
This alone IMHO, is reason enough to buy it.
Tape based formats will most likely be obsolete in another 2-3 years.
Optical and solid state recording is steadily gaining ground and is the wave of the future.
So, if you want to buy a soon-to-be obsolete product, then buy the VHS or Betamax of the near future and purchase a DV or HDV based TAPE transport recording device.
Why, you may ask ? I can state 3 very simple reasons in a nutshell.

1.) Reliability. Less mechanical moving parts means greater reliabilty.
This is a simple Engineering fact that can not be argued.

2.) LINEAR (tape) vs. NON-LINEAR (optical disc, Hard Disc, or solid state memory)
Remember the first time you skipped thru "chapters" on a DVD movie ?
You said to yourselves, wow, look. no rewinding or shuttling back and forth to find the segment that I'm looking for.
Since you bought a DVD player, how many VHS movies have you rented ?

3.) Archival quality. Optical discs are unaffected by magnetic fields , including the earth's own, or humidity. 2 important negatives that do affect any tape based product in storage.
That coupled with the latest in optical disc manufacturing standards ensures a much longer term archival record of your treasured recorded memories.

A word on the AVCHD format. To my trained eye, the latest MPEG-4, H.264, or AVCHD codecs, or whatever flavour you or Sony decides to call it, are every bit as good and in some scenarios, BETTER than the equivelant same source material encoded in MPEG-2.
It is, in a nutshell, a more storage-efficient format and as I said, IMHO, slightly higher quality method of recording.
I know the detractors out there will say, "well what about editing support ?" Well, it IS coming, and sooner than you think. within the next 6-12 months.

I can assure you that I know a lot of inside people in the manufacturing end of things and as we speak, all the major players out there, Sony, Apple, Avid, and Pinnacle have their software developers working on this round the clock as we speak (I'm talking about AVCHD editing products).

Let me make one thing clear. I am not taking anything away from the HV20 and the HC7 camcorders, the UX series main "competition", so to speak.

But if you take this camcorder, and could see and hear what I have been seeing and hearing coming out of it for the past month, coupled with a Sony PS3 for playback and a 60 or 70" SXRD XBR2 TV, which is my current setup ( I have the 70"), you will have one very nice state of the art entertainment system for several years to come.

That is all I have to say on the matter for now.

Just a few points:
* People have been saying 'tape is obsolete' for years. The fact is the networks still use that more than any other recording medium.
* I have some very old min-DV tapes recorded years ago and they're still perfect. I simply can't remember people having issues with this. The fact is that tape is as reliable as any other medium. I know I've had hard drive crashes, but I've yet to have a tape self-destruct.
* The consensus is that non-tape based cams are not as good as tape-based ones from a PQ standpoint. Every clip I've seen thus far and every AVCHD camera review I've seen simply proves that fact IMO.
* Yes non-tape recording can be more convenient in some areas, but can be much more INconvenient in others. I've mentioned this in other posts and won't repeat it here.
* I do agree about reliability and to me that's the only real advantage of non-tape solutions at this point IMO.
* One guy on AVS just got the JVC HD camcorder and this looks to be the best of the non-tape based cams. His initial results after doing an A/B with the HV20 is that even this cam isn't as good as the tape-based HV20.

I'm sure down the road this will be the way to go, but if your primary objective is picture quality (particularly if you watch on a big screen HDTV where you can see the differences), tape is still kind IMO.
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post #9 of 36 Old 04-08-2007, 10:57 AM - Thread Starter
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Ken Ross said:
Just a few points:
* People have been saying 'tape is obsolete' for years. The fact is the networks still use that more than any other recording medium.
* I have some very old min-DV tapes recorded years ago and they're still perfect. I simply can't remember people having issues with this. The fact is that tape is as reliable as any other medium. I know I've had hard drive crashes, but I've yet to have a tape self-destruct.
* The consensus is that non-tape based cams are not as good as tape-based ones from a PQ standpoint. Every clip I've seen thus far and every AVCHD camera review I've seen simply proves that fact IMO.
* Yes non-tape recording can be more convenient in some areas, but can be much more INconvenient in others. I've mentioned this in other posts and won't repeat it here.
* I do agree about reliability and to me that's the only real advantage of non-tape solutions at this point IMO.
* One guy on AVS just got the JVC HD camcorder and this looks to be the best of the non-tape based cams. His initial results after doing an A/B with the HV20 is that even this cam isn't as good as the tape-based HV20.

I'm sure down the road this will be the way to go, but if your primary objective is picture quality (particularly if you watch on a big screen HDTV where you can see the differences), tape is still kind IMO.

First, this thread is about the HDR-UX7, and not the HV20 or the JVC. I simply want to post my experince and my opinion based on my trained eye, as a potential help to those sitting on the fence as to which camcorder to buy.

But since you brought up your counterpoint, I strongly have to disagree with you here, Ken. Apparently you have not been inside any broadcast television operation anywhere in recent years, in particular the past 2 years, as I have, since I work in the industry. The fact is that most non-live broadcast playback that people see at home is coming off a video file server nowadays from the networks as well as local stations, and while tape is still dominant in News acquisition, more and more stations and networks are migrating away from tape in that area as well. The main reason as I cited being the cost of maintenance, i.e. reliability. That is an indisputable fact. I know because I am experiencing it right now in my workplace and I repair this stuff for a living.

Okay, here's the scenario. you just taped your son's bar mitzvah or your daughter's wedding or your infant's christening. You go home with your relatives you and want to see that immediately, right ?
So what do you do ?
You plug your cables into your mini-DV cam or HDV cam into your TV set and play back the tape... FROM THE CAMCORDER. Unless you happen to own a $2,000 or higher priced seperate deck to play it out on. You now just put double the wear and tear on your camcorder's delicate tape mechanism as well as the added labour of hooking up those ugly cables draped across the front of your entertainment center. I say that is the scenario in 97% of American households.

Me ?

2 weeks ago, I went with my wife and some friends to the local zoo to test out the new HDR-UX7 camcorder. I also shot some glorious 4.6MP 16:9 widescreen stills on the memory stick while we were there. We all go back to my house, fire up the 70", and as I'm pouring drinks all around, my wife just pops the nice cute little DVD into our PS3 and in a few seconds, voila! Glorious HD pictures in brilliant and accurate color are pouring out into my living room. My friends were floored, BLOWN AWAY by the picture quality and 5/1 sound quality. We then watched the slide show of the stills on that same PS3 through the built in memory card reader and all I can say is WOW !! 16:9 stills with 2X the resolution HD motion recording is something to behold on a 70" set. Argue with the simplicity of that, my friend.

Editing ? Who the hell has the time and energy nowadays or even the know-how to edit ? With a little creative in-camera editing at time of acquisition, there is no need to edit.
I can count on one hand the number of times I have edited a home video.

DEATH TO TAPE.
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post #10 of 36 Old 04-09-2007, 11:00 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by slothmeister View Post

First, this thread is about the HDR-UX7, and not the HV20 or the JVC. I simply want to post my experince and my opinion based on my trained eye, as a potential help to those sitting on the fence as to which camcorder to buy.

But since you brought up your counterpoint, I strongly have to disagree with you here, Ken. Apparently you have not been inside any broadcast television operation anywhere in recent years, in particular the past 2 years, as I have, since I work in the industry. The fact is that most non-live broadcast playback that people see at home is coming off a video file server nowadays from the networks as well as local stations, and while tape is still dominant in News acquisition, more and more stations and networks are migrating away from tape in that area as well. The main reason as I cited being the cost of maintenance, i.e. reliability. That is an indisputable fact. I know because I am experiencing it right now in my workplace and I repair this stuff for a living.

Okay, here's the scenario. you just taped your son's bar mitzvah or your daughter's wedding or your infant's christening. You go home with your relatives you and want to see that immediately, right ?
So what do you do ?
You plug your cables into your mini-DV cam or HDV cam into your TV set and play back the tape... FROM THE CAMCORDER. Unless you happen to own a $2,000 or higher priced seperate deck to play it out on. You now just put double the wear and tear on your camcorder's delicate tape mechanism as well as the added labour of hooking up those ugly cables draped across the front of your entertainment center. I say that is the scenario in 97% of American households.

Me ?

2 weeks ago, I went with my wife and some friends to the local zoo to test out the new HDR-UX7 camcorder. I also shot some glorious 4.6MP 16:9 widescreen stills on the memory stick while we were there. We all go back to my house, fire up the 70", and as I'm pouring drinks all around, my wife just pops the nice cute little DVD into our PS3 and in a few seconds, voila! Glorious HD pictures in brilliant and accurate color are pouring out into my living room. My friends were floored, BLOWN AWAY by the picture quality and 5/1 sound quality. We then watched the slide show of the stills on that same PS3 through the built in memory card reader and all I can say is WOW !! 16:9 stills with 2X the resolution HD motion recording is something to behold on a 70" set. Argue with the simplicity of that, my friend.

Editing ? Who the hell has the time and energy nowadays or even the know-how to edit ? With a little creative in-camera editing at time of acquisition, there is no need to edit.
I can count on one hand the number of times I have edited a home video.

DEATH TO TAPE.


slothmeister-

I enjoyed reading your take on this camcorder. I have a 60" SXRD (the 70" wasn't out at the time unfortunately) and a PS3. Maybe you can answer a few questions for me as I am debating on getting this camcorder.

1) Can you compare the picture quality of this camcorder between both the SD (MPEG2) and the AVCHD
2) I know the AVCHD mode is blueray only, right? If I shoot in the standard def mode, will that play on any DVD player?
3) What brand of mini DVDs do you buy and how much do they cost?
4) If you only answer one question please answer this one: If I shoot in AVCHD mode and put the video on my PC, can I burn it to a regular sized DVD and play it back in the PS3? What about SD MPEG2?

TIA

Sooner
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post #11 of 36 Old 04-09-2007, 03:33 PM
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1) Can you compare the picture quality of this camcorder between both the SD (MPEG2) and the AVCHD

I did a test and played the SD and then the AVCHD and it was mind blowing the clarity of the AVCHD and I only had it on the HD HQ where as I could have bumped it up to the HD HQ+ but the battery life was horrible (for me anyway) and can only record 15 minutes on dvd... for me I was happy with the 20 min per side of the HD HQ mode.

2) I know the AVCHD mode is blueray only, right? If I shoot in the standard def mode, will that play on any DVD player?

Its not limited to BluRay... you can use the provided software and watch it on the AVCHD player and yes with the same software you can convert the AVCHD to play on any player. I also plan on getting the HDMI cables and playing it from the camcorder to my HD TV.

3) What brand of mini DVDs do you buy and how much do they cost?

I personally suggest going with Sony brand mini's not just because I feel they are better (which they are VERY thick and durable) but also that if you use a none Sony brand, every time you start it up you get an annoying messege on the screen telling you that Sony is recommended.

As for cost... I order mine from here... http://www.techonweb.com/products/pr...aspx?id=C50998 other then this site Bestbuy has them cheapest but ya spend $12 for a 3 pack.

4) If you only answer one question please answer this one: If I shoot in AVCHD mode and put the video on my PC, can I burn it to a regular sized DVD and play it back in the PS3? What about SD MPEG2?

As above where I mentioned the included software it will burn to either AVCHD DVD and SD DVD.

I actually was pretty impressed with even the SD HQ mode. (MPEG2)
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post #12 of 36 Old 04-09-2007, 04:26 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by slothmeister View Post

Let me give you my reasons and opinions as to why I think this is the best bang for the buck little HD camcorder out there at the moment.

Quote:


First, this thread is about the HDR-UX7, and not the HV20 or the JVC.

In the first statement, you're making a comparison with the UX7 and basically every camcorder our there. As such, it is perfectly within bounds to bring up other models as counterpoints.


Quote:


1.) Reliability. Less mechanical moving parts means greater reliabilty.
This is a simple Engineering fact that can not be argued.

This holds more water if you're comparing tape vs. solid state. Lets face it. DVD writers have plenty of moving parts. Ultimately, a large portion of a product's reliability will come from the company that manufactures it. I wouldn't be suprised if reliability of tape systems is similar to that of optical disc systems.


Quote:


2.) LINEAR (tape) vs. NON-LINEAR (optical disc, Hard Disc, or solid state memory)
Remember the first time you skipped thru "chapters" on a DVD movie ?
You said to yourselves, wow, look. no rewinding or shuttling back and forth to find the segment that I'm looking for.
Since you bought a DVD player, how many VHS movies have you rented ?

But no one is saying that tape is meant to be used indefinitely as the playback medium. Most people use tape for archival purposes.


Quote:


3.) Archival quality. Optical discs are unaffected by magnetic fields , including the earth's own, or humidity. 2 important negatives that do affect any tape based product in storage.

Untrue. Humidity and extreme temperatures affect the rate in which the organic dye on optical discs degrade. In addition, optical discs are somewhat vulnerable to UV radiation.


Quote:


To my trained eye, the latest MPEG-4, H.264, or AVCHD codecs, or whatever flavour you or Sony decides to call it, are every bit as good and in some scenarios, BETTER than the equivelant same source material encoded in MPEG-2.

There's nothing wrong with the AVCHD format. It just has to be implemented well. I don't think the current lineup in the market does that. To my semi-trained but, more importantly, consumer eye, recordings from MPEG2-based camcorders currently in the market look better than recordings from AVCHD-based camcorders currently in the market.


Quote:


I know the detractors out there will say, "well what about editing support ?" Well, it IS coming, and sooner than you think. within the next 6-12 months.

In the meantime, sit on your recordings and don't edit them. It must be a horrible wait for all those early adopters from last year...


Quote:


Okay, here's the scenario. you just taped your son's bar mitzvah or your daughter's wedding or your infant's christening. You go home with your relatives you and want to see that immediately, right ?

Nope. I just attended the event so I don't need to refresh my memory. I do, however, want to watch it six months or a year down the road.


Quote:


Editing ? Who the hell has the time and energy nowadays or even the know-how to edit ? With a little creative in-camera editing at time of acquisition, there is no need to edit.

I know *many* people who want to edit. Sure, having in-camera editing options is great. What options are available on the UX7?
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post #13 of 36 Old 04-09-2007, 06:54 PM
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Not a ton of editing options on the UX7.... dont bother me though... but I do wish they had some more fade options, all they have is fade in and out with black or white... why not a overlap fade from the last scene to the next.
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post #14 of 36 Old 04-09-2007, 07:35 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by SoonerEngineer View Post

slothmeister-

I enjoyed reading your take on this camcorder. I have a 60" SXRD (the 70" wasn't out at the time unfortunately) and a PS3. Maybe you can answer a few questions for me as I am debating on getting this camcorder.

1) Can you compare the picture quality of this camcorder between both the SD (MPEG2) and the AVCHD
2) I know the AVCHD mode is blueray only, right? If I shoot in the standard def mode, will that play on any DVD player?
3) What brand of mini DVDs do you buy and how much do they cost?
4) If you only answer one question please answer this one: If I shoot in AVCHD mode and put the video on my PC, can I burn it to a regular sized DVD and play it back in the PS3? What about SD MPEG2?

TIA

Sooner

Sooner, in answer to your questions:

1.) Comparing SD and HD is like comparing apples and oranges no matter which compression algorithm is used... I have only used the SD mode once to test it and it looks fine to my eye.. for a standard def picture.

2.) the AVCHD mode is NOT Blu-Ray. This camera does not use Blu-Ray discs at all, it uses standard off the shelf mini DVD's that you can purchase at Walmart. And yes, the standard def mode is MPEG 2 and will play in any standard DVD player.

3.) I prefer to use the Sony brand DVD+RW (rewriteable) mini DVD's. A 5 pack is about $18- $19 at WalMart.

4.) The answer is yes and yes. Although the beauty of your setup, which is almost identical to mine, is that you merely have to pop the mini-dvd out of the camcorder and directly into the PS3. The PS3 recognizes 3" discs as long as it is in a horizontal and not a vertical standing mode. The PS3 also recognizes and plays back native AVCHD format.

Sony also makes a real useful accessory for those with a 5.1 audio setup.
I purchased it and it works great. It is a BlueTooth wireless center channel microphone. Records mic audio from whoever wears the mic from up to 200' away in center channel only while keeping the remainder of the 5.1 soundfield intact from the camera's buiilt in surround mic.
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post #15 of 36 Old 04-09-2007, 08:18 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by lobato View Post

In the first statement, you're making a comparison with the UX7 and basically every camcorder our there. As such, it is perfectly within bounds to bring up other models as counterpoints.?

As I stated earlier, I am not comparing anything.




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This holds more water if you're comparing tape vs. solid state. Lets face it. DVD writers have plenty of moving parts. Ultimately, a large portion of a product's reliability will come from the company that manufactures it. I wouldn't be suprised if reliability of tape systems is similar to that of optical disc systems.?

You should be surprised. The only moving part beside the tray mechanism (which disc based camcorders do not even have), is a sliding servo motor with the laser head in it. It is replaceable as single unit that pops in with a couple of screws.
That's a single servo system, versus a 3 servo system for any tape based video transport. There is a reel servo system with motors (2, takeup and a supply motor), a capstan motor system (that is the 3rd motor), and the head drum servo system (that is the 4th motor). In addition there are mechanical guides which DO wear out and a threading mechanism usually based on mechanical gears.




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But no one is saying that tape is meant to be used indefinitely as the playback medium. Most people use tape for archival purposes.

I will concede to that statement. As of right now.




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Originally Posted by lobato View Post

Untrue. Humidity and extreme temperatures affect the rate in which the organic dye on optical discs degrade. In addition, optical discs are somewhat vulnerable to UV radiation.

I noticed how you not-so-subtly ADDED the words "extreme temperatures" to my original statement. Of course extreme temperatures will melt or freeze anything if they are extreme enough, whether it be tape, discs or anything else made from plastic. Now, try dunking a DV tape and a mini dvd disc simultaneously into a bucket of water for 5 minutes. Wipe the disc off dry and put it in your DVD player and it will play. Will the tape play after dunking it in water ? So, your "humidity" theory does not hold water. Bwa-ha-hahahahaaaaaa. CHECK




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Originally Posted by lobato View Post

There's nothing wrong with the AVCHD format. It just has to be implemented well. I don't think the current lineup in the market does that. To my semi-trained but, more importantly, consumer eye, recordings from MPEG2-based camcorders currently in the market look better than recordings from AVCHD-based camcorders currently in the market..

Your eyes must see things differently than mine. So by your own admission then, technology is moving BACKWARDS, and not forward , since AVCHD (a flavor of MPEG4) was developed years after MPEG2 was established ?

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In the meantime, sit on your recordings and don't edit them. It must be a horrible wait for all those early adopters from last year.....

I stand by my original statement. I would bet that easily 97% of the consumer (non-professional) public does not edit their home videos. what did non-professional users do 20 years ago when the original seperate cameras and portable VHS machines , or the early betamax and mini VHS camcorders come out ? Bring themn home after vacation and edit them ? Those tapes are probably still sitting on the bookshelves 20 years later, literally rotting and shedding oxide after 1 or 2 viewings every 5 years. Let's talk real life here, Bud...




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Originally Posted by lobato View Post

Nope. I just attended the event so I don't need to refresh my memory. I do, however, want to watch it six months or a year down the road.




I know *many* people who want to edit. Sure, having in-camera editing options is great. What options are available on the UX7?

The pause button and the fader button. That's what I meant by "creative in camera editing at time of acquision". It's amazing how your photography (compositional) skills will improve using only those 2 buttons. CHECKMATE
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post #16 of 36 Old 04-10-2007, 12:08 PM - Thread Starter
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Silence is Golden.
I guess I made my point.
Hopefully people will realize the truth to my "Death To Tape" rant.

That is all.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by slothmeister View Post

Silence is Golden.
I guess I made my point.
Hopefully people will realize the truth to my "Death To Tape" rant.

That is all.

lol

I think you need to give responses more time. As for me, I've said my bit. While I don't think some of your counerpoints have merit, I know I'm not going to convince you otherwise. Likewise, you're not going to convince me that tape media is the bane of the industry. Each media has its strengths and weaknesses so there's no point continuing to post on the matter.
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post #18 of 36 Old 04-10-2007, 04:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by slothmeister View Post

Sooner, in answer to your questions:

2.) the AVCHD mode is NOT Blu-Ray. This camera does not use Blu-Ray discs at all, it uses standard off the shelf mini DVD's that you can purchase at Walmart. And yes, the standard def mode is MPEG 2 and will play in any standard DVD player.


I knew that AVCHD is not Blu-Ray, I guess what I meant was will it only play in a Blu-Ray player?

I guess my main concern now is archiving down the road. If I wanted to make copies for family, I could just copy little DVDs onto a regular size DVD? If that is the case, I'm sold!

Thanks for all the help.
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post #19 of 36 Old 04-10-2007, 05:06 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by SoonerEngineer View Post

I knew that AVCHD is not Blu-Ray, I guess what I meant was will it only play in a Blu-Ray player?

I guess my main concern now is archiving down the road. If I wanted to make copies for family, I could just copy little DVDs onto a regular size DVD? If that is the case, I'm sold!

Thanks for all the help.

I believe that is the case. That is, that the AVCHD discs will only play directly on a Blu-Ray player. At least on a SONY Blu-Ray player. You may want to check with Sony on that.
The software that comes with the camcorder is very basic and only allows you to ingest the files from your disc onto your hard drive, whether it is in MPEG2 SD or AVCHD. Either from the camera directly through a USB 2.0 supplied cable, or by simply popping the disc into your computer's DVD ROM (in my eyes, another advantage). The software allegedly can also transcode from AVCHD down to MPEG2 SD mode, and then you can dump it onto any size DVD recordable disc, either full size or mini size. There is no editing function with the supplied software, so you must copy the disc as one file in its entirety. I have not tried any of this yet, so may want to check with Maxximus to see if he has done it, since we seem to be the only 2 people on this group with the HDR-UX7 so far.
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The mini DVDs coming out the UX7 are only used as data storage not as playable HD disks. Only Sony's PS3 can play it because it is a super fast PC at its core and reads the disk as data files. The frustration is that no other BD player or a regular speed PC can play the files out of UX7 in high def. That makes the distributrion of the UX7 footage extremely difficult now and perhaps down the road. SD DVD cams don't have such a problem because the mini DVDs coming out of them are playable disks in any DVD player.

But a more important reason this model has caught on with many people on this forum is that the PQ simply is not on par with others HD cams. When someone spends $1200 on a video cam he usually wants the best video quality regardless of the media. Most users (including myself) don't really care about tapes but if the trade off is the PQ then living with it for now will be the only option.
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post #21 of 36 Old 04-10-2007, 06:42 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by GodobeHD View Post

The mini DVDs coming out the UX7 are only used as data storage not as playable HD disks. Only Sony's PS3 can play it because it is a super fast PC at its core and reads the disk as data files. The frustration is that no other BD player or a regular speed PC can play the files out of UX7 in high def. That makes the distributrion of the UX7 footage extremely difficult now and perhaps down the road. SD DVD cams don't have such a problem because the mini DVDs coming out of them are playable disks in any DVD player.

But a more important reason this model has caught on with many people on this forum is that the PQ simply is not on par with others HD cams. When someone spends $1200 on a video cam he usually wants the best video quality regardless of the media. Most users (including myself) don't really care about tapes but if the trade off is the PQ then living with it for now will be the only option.

Godobe, with all due respect. you, my friend , are hallucinating. Have you ever even seen the video quality playing out of this camcorder ? Or are you simply trying to flame me into a response ?
Dude, I look at $50,000 HD broadcast cameras every day for a living, and for a $1200 camera the HDR-UX7 looks just fine to me. BTW, did you mean to say "this model HAS caught on" or "HAS NOT caught on" ?

Also there is another method of viewing the files on a PC with the included viewing software. Just pop the dvd out of the camera and into your DVD ROM.
Works fine. I believe you may also be mistaken about other Blu-Ray players not being able to play the disks directly. After all, half the new Blu-Ray movies coming out are encoded in AVCHD.
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Exactly as slothmeister has said. I have taken the mini and put it in my computers cd/dvd drive and used the included AVCHD player to see the stunning quality.

As for the editing its pretty limited with the supplied software, all you can do is convert to mpeg2, video trimming, dvd creation and AVCHD creation.

Nero has a new version out called Recode and states it supports AVCHD, I havent had the time to tinker with it but will attempt to do that shortly and let you know how it goes.
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AVCHD is NOT limited to blu ray players and WILL play on a computer with a standard dvd burner/player with the proper software.

If you can edit AVCHD on computer, you can certainly play it. Speaking of editing... Sony Vegas has vowed to have AVCHD edit sometime this Spring ( I suspect they're going to wait for NAB to unveil it) and the soon to be released Pinnacle studio 11 has full AVCHD support.

AVCHD users will NOT have to wait much longer.
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Well I just messed around for just a few quick minutes with Nero Vision and it does support AVCHD... not a ton of features since its not meant to be a standalone video editor but I was able to export to HDV HD2 1440x1080 with a 29.97 fps and was damn impressed. \\

You can also export to HD1 720x480, HD1 720x576, HD1 1280x720 as well as DVD, SVCD, VCD, DV-AVI type 1 and 2, MPEG 1 and 2, Nero Digital and AVI
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post #25 of 36 Old 04-11-2007, 10:52 AM
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sloth, have you tried doing the hdmi output from the cam? Im not all that impressed to be honest... wish I knew someone with a PS3 to put the disk in and judge it better. Just wondering if there is a visual differance from playing off the cam into my hd tv versus a ps3 or bluray player.


Whats your suggestion on pictures and developing them... seems a lot of places are using the wide film and in 4.6MP mode it uses the "wide 16:9" versus the more square look in the 6.1. Suggestions?
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Quote:
Originally Posted by slothmeister View Post

Godobe, with all due respect. you, my friend , are hallucinating. Have you ever even seen the video quality playing out of this camcorder ? Or are you simply trying to flame me into a response ?
Dude, I look at $50,000 HD broadcast cameras every day for a living, and for a $1200 camera the HDR-UX7 looks just fine to me. BTW, did you mean to say "this model HAS caught on" or "HAS NOT caught on" ?

I am not going to get personal on this, I am only speaking about the FACTS.
And the fact is the HD video I saw on UX7 had more moise and EE than some other HD cams. If you say they are not there then you simply haven't seen the comparasons with an HD cam like HV20 or you don't really care. Boasting your looking at $50,000 HD cam every day for a living doesn't make these artifacts on UX7 go away. Sometimes not knowing there are there keeps you content and happy. But these digital artifacts make a huge difference when you are trying to turn home video into high quality movies.
Yes, I meant the models (UX5/UX7) have NOT caught on among people on this forum.
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Also there is another method of viewing the files on a PC with the included viewing software. Just pop the dvd out of the camera and into your DVD ROM.
Works fine. I believe you may also be mistaken about other Blu-Ray players not being able to play the disks directly. After all, half the new Blu-Ray movies coming out are encoded in AVCHD.

The second FACT I was talking about is the DVD coming out of the Sony AVCHD cams does NOT play in any BD players except in PC like devices with the right software and speed. If you don't believe that sir, simply take your disk to ANY stand alone BD player and try it. You want to wage $100 on that?! What you said led to believe you had never tested yourself.

The only option playing the HD video out of Sony UX cams on an HDTV seems to be getting a Sony PS3 (or building an HTPC). Obviously you can always use the cam itself as a playback device but then those costs of mini DVD disks would quickly add up. And the record time and finalize time on the UX7/UX5 are just outragous IMHO. Considering 13min of record time and 13 min of finalizing on a 1.4GB disk, you basically have to carry these expensive miniDVDs in dozens and expect a 13min down time for every 13 min of recording. Just a painful and expensive way of going about HD.

What is so ironic is that the only media that allows you painless recording and to play full HD from a disk with random access and menu at this moment is the tape. Let's hope that is not going to remain the case in the near future.
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post #27 of 36 Old 04-11-2007, 01:19 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by MaXXimus View Post

sloth, have you tried doing the hdmi output from the cam? Im not all that impressed to be honest... wish I knew someone with a PS3 to put the disk in and judge it better. Just wondering if there is a visual differance from playing off the cam into my hd tv versus a ps3 or bluray player.

Maxx,

what type & model of HDTV are you viewing on ?
There should be no difference, anmd I do not see any difference at all between playing out of your camera thru HDMI or playing the disc from a PS 3 via HDMI.
What compression quality are you using ?

SP ? LP ? HQ or HQ+ ?? This will affect the picture quality mainly when there is a lot of, or quick motion within the scene. HQ+ being the best, obviously. The tradeoff of course is less recording time


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Originally Posted by MaXXimus View Post

Whats your suggestion on pictures and developing them... seems a lot of places are using the wide film and in 4.6MP mode it uses the "wide 16:9" versus the more square look in the 6.1. Suggestions.

By pictures and developing them, I suppose you are talking about printing the stills made from the camera that get saved on the memory stick ?

What type of printer do you have ? Do you own an image editing program for your computer ?

As for myself, I use the 4.6MP 16:9 mode for stills, since I love the way the rich, glorious and accurate colors display in full widescreen on my 70"SXRD XBR2.
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sloth,

The TV I have is a Panasonic TC-32LX60 (32" LCD)... Im connecting direct to the TV via the HDMI cable that goes from my cable box to the TV, by disconnecting the one end from the cable of course. And I shot in HD HQ and then in HD HQ+ and when playing it from cam to tv to me sucked... looked better on my little computer LCD monitor. I dont know what the problem is.

Maybe if I can zip it up and find a place to upload too you could take a look and let me know what ya think?

As for the pictures I would just take them to a store to get developed and have them on cd as well so maybe Ill do as you said and go with the 4.6MP 16:9

EDIT: YA know I wonder if its the media Im using thats causing the not as crystal clear look as I think it should be... the Sony DVD+RW? On Sony's website they have listed a new DVD+R DL thats says "Ideal for HD Recording"... wonder if I should give that a shot?
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post #29 of 36 Old 04-11-2007, 08:04 PM - Thread Starter
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Maxximus,

I just PM'ed you.
Please reply in PM .
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post #30 of 36 Old 04-15-2007, 09:34 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GodobeHD View Post

The mini DVDs coming out the UX7 are only used as data storage not as playable HD disks. Only Sony's PS3 can play it because it is a super fast PC at its core and reads the disk as data files. The frustration is that no other BD player or a regular speed PC can play the files out of UX7 in high def. That makes the distributrion of the UX7 footage extremely difficult now and perhaps down the road. SD DVD cams don't have such a problem because the mini DVDs coming out of them are playable disks in any DVD player.

But a more important reason this model has caught on with many people on this forum is that the PQ simply is not on par with others HD cams. When someone spends $1200 on a video cam he usually wants the best video quality regardless of the media. Most users (including myself) don't really care about tapes but if the trade off is the PQ then living with it for now will be the only option.

I guess this is obvious, but I'll ask anyway: I assume the US7 mini DVDs will NOT be playable on a Toshiba HD-A1 HDDVD player?

Anyone know of an upcoming HDDVD (not Blu Ray) camcorder?
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