HV10 vs HV20 - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 24 Old 03-21-2007, 05:13 PM - Thread Starter
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For those of you having seen both HV10 vs HV20 please post your impressions.

According to camcorderinfo.com it looks like the HV20 indeed is offering better low light performance than HV10 at 24P, probably with the shutter speed of 1/24 (or even 1/48). Here is what CCI has to say about its comparason with HC7:
"Our new test showed that the HDR-HC7 was capable of producing 50 IRE at approximately 7 lux, which put it on par with the Canon HV20 (review in process now) in 1080i. The HV20 easily outperformed the Sony when shooting in 24P mode. There was a major qualitative difference in how the image looked. The HV20 had far better color differentiation and far less noise. There was really no contest. The Canon HV20 won, hands down."

If at 1080i HV20 is about the same as HC7, which means worse than HC3, which on CCI's scale, better than HV10, then it is very likely that given the optical path being identical HV20 is about the same as HV10 in low light at 1080i. 1/24 is what seems to make the difference.

BTW I always find CCI's reviews pretty reliable. I do find that at 1/60 HC3 is brighter and less noise than HV10, albeit less sharp image. But I usually film at 1/30 with HV10 in low light which improves PQ quite a bit.
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post #2 of 24 Old 03-21-2007, 06:33 PM
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Godobe, I'll have my HV20 by Friday and will, for a time, have both the HV10 & HV20. I plan to sell my HV10 if everything pans out with the HV20.

Oh, and before I forget, even though CCI ranked both equal in terms of image brightness @ 1080i, it said the HV20 was 'much cleaner'. So in reality, the HV20 is much better than the HC7 even at 1080i. I'm guessing now, but I'd be willing to bet the HV20 is still better than the HC3. Given the HC3's propensity for image softening in low light, the Canon's image remained sharp & clear.
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post #3 of 24 Old 03-22-2007, 09:06 AM
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I apologize if this has been asked already, but can someone tell me if shooting in 24P for my child's sports games (basketball and soccer) will look horrible? Will the 24 fps be enough to capture the movement? Maybe I will be better off using 60i? I was planning on testing out both but didn't want to waste my time if it was known to be a bad choice. Plus, can you switch formats on the same tape? If I begin shooting in 24P, can I later switch to 60i?

I'm almost ready to "pull the trigger" on the new Canon HV20. Not only do I plan on using it for family videos, I also plan on taking some footage of the beautiful island of Santorini (Greece) this May. I wonder if 24P would be "better" for scenic shots (less motion)? I know "better" is very subjective, and that "your mileage will vary." :-)

Thanks!
Chris
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post #4 of 24 Old 03-22-2007, 09:49 AM
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Do you think sports looks horrible during movies? 24p can capture movement just fine. It just has a more surreal movie look to the motion and less of a live news look. It just depends on what you want. You don't want to do any fast panning though with 24p. You want to keep it smooth.

I personally hate the look of 60i, but I'm into filmmaking and nothing screams home video more than 60i.
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post #5 of 24 Old 03-22-2007, 10:23 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MTyson View Post

Do you think sports looks horrible during movies? 24p can capture movement just fine. It just has a more surreal movie look to the motion and less of a live news look. It just depends on what you want. You don't want to do any fast panning though with 24p. You want to keep it smooth.

I personally hate the look of 60i, but I'm into filmmaking and nothing screams home video more than 60i.


Good point about sports movies. I suppose I will simply have to test the two modes out myself (for taping sporting events). Again, I wonder if I can perform this test using the same tape (switching modes within the same tape).

I'd still be interested to know what people who have taken many outdoor, scenic videos think about the two different formats: 24P vs. 60i. I'm assuming that the 24P is being shot in 1080 as does the 60i, correct?

I'm guessing the answer is "no" to the following question, but I'll ask anyway: Can the canon tape at 720p (60 fps)? :-)
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post #6 of 24 Old 03-22-2007, 10:25 AM
 
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Gentlemen: Reports and reviews when you get your HV20s please.
Damn, this sounds like a good machine.

I especially want to know how the mic performs. In outdoor use is front sound clear?

Thanks!
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post #7 of 24 Old 03-23-2007, 10:31 PM
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Expect the Mic to be bad for anything above point-and-shoot. Using an external mic will yield better results, of course.

24p will be nice for most things, and will become redundant in consumer video footage from now on; gotta love Canon's recent cutthroat approach.

Their recent release history is amazing.
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post #8 of 24 Old 03-28-2007, 08:43 AM - Thread Starter
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I don't know if anybody has noticed this in camcorderinfo.com reviews of HV20 and HV10. There is a 21% difference in video resolution of HV20 (625x575) vs HV10 (631x691) at 60i in bright light. Though they used different test patterns for HV20 from HV10, its still hard to figure out what could have explained all that difference. HV20's 625x600 resolution (at 24P) is very impressive by any standard (about the same as Canon's XHA1) but it falls short of HV10's. Am I giving up something in bright light by going from HV10 to HV20? It looks like its either CCI's poor measuring technique or Canon's tinkering in HV20.
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post #9 of 24 Old 03-28-2007, 12:20 PM
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Godobe, I noticed the same thing and other then the different testing methodologies used between the HV10 & HV20, I can't explain it. It surely wouldn't be the first time a CCI review has some puzzling numbers.

However, after first testing the zoom/focus on my new HV20, I proceeded to do outdoor A/B testing of both the HV10 and HV20. As hard as I tried, on my 50" Fujitsu plasma, I could see no difference in detail. In fact, I think Canon has the default sharpness of the HV20 up a tad higher than the HV10. I always kept my HV10 at +1 on the sharpness. I was able to do this because the noise on the HV10 was so so low, you could extract even more sharpness without any increase in apparent noise.

The HV20 at +1 seems to me a bit sharper than the HV10 at +1, but I see no additional detail....or less detail for that matter. In reality Godobe, the pictures are so close, I doubt I could tell which was which in a blind A/B test. But in low light I certainly could!
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post #10 of 24 Old 03-28-2007, 01:37 PM - Thread Starter
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that's reassuring to know, Ken. Thanks! I was also surprised to see CCI's resolution measurement puts HC7 at a higher number than HV20, which was not borne out by the comparison footages we had seen.
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post #11 of 24 Old 03-28-2007, 03:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by latedate View Post

I apologize if this has been asked already, but can someone tell me if shooting in 24P for my child's sports games (basketball and soccer) will look horrible? Will the 24 fps be enough to capture the movement? Maybe I will be better off using 60i? I was planning on testing out both but didn't want to waste my time if it was known to be a bad choice. Plus, can you switch formats on the same tape? If I begin shooting in 24P, can I later switch to 60i?

I'm almost ready to "pull the trigger" on the new Canon HV20. Not only do I plan on using it for family videos, I also plan on taking some footage of the beautiful island of Santorini (Greece) this May. I wonder if 24P would be "better" for scenic shots (less motion)? I know "better" is very subjective, and that "your mileage will vary." :-)

Thanks!
Chris

Latedate 24p will not look as good as 1080/60i for sports or fast action unless you are way up in the bleachers. I disagree with the others. If you are behind the bench at a basketball game and and are watching your kidds run the floor it will be blur city. I have several 24p files and with stationary or slow movement its incredible. It will work great if you are in Row 29 recording from a tri-pod but you will lose detail and will add some grain if you are in a low light environment.

Check out the results for your self. You will be disapointed.
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post #12 of 24 Old 03-29-2007, 04:41 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GodobeHD View Post

that's reassuring to know, Ken. Thanks! I was also surprised to see CCI's resolution measurement puts HC7 at a higher number than HV20, which was not borne out by the comparison footages we had seen.

Same feeling here.
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post #13 of 24 Old 03-29-2007, 04:44 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Khid View Post

Expect the Mic to be bad for anything above point-and-shoot. Using an external mic will yield better results, of course.

Any suggestion?
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post #14 of 24 Old 03-29-2007, 08:39 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Khid View Post

Expect the Mic to be bad for anything above point-and-shoot. Using an external mic will yield better results, of course.

Agreed. But I want to use the camera w/o any added devices. I am looking forward to reviews that are not theory. I want to hear from people who have actually used the camera and sampled the video and audio.
I know better (external) mics will sound better. But how good do the UP-FACING mics actually sound? Is there good intelligibility? I know the Freq. Response will not be terrific and there might be some motor sounds.
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post #15 of 24 Old 03-29-2007, 11:53 AM
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To be honest, in a dead quiet room, I hear a bit more motor noise on the HV20 than the HV10. But with the least amound of ambient sound, you don't really hear the motor noise.
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post #16 of 24 Old 03-29-2007, 02:16 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ken Ross View Post

To be honest, in a dead quiet room, I hear a bit more motor noise on the HV20 than the HV10. But with the least amound of ambient sound, you don't really hear the motor noise.

When recording someone who is speaking is there good intelligibility? Can you tell that the camera has upfacing mics by the way the person talking sounds?

Thanks for any input.

Again I say I want (to want) this camera.
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post #17 of 24 Old 03-29-2007, 06:34 PM
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Cyrano, no the sound up front is fine. It's typical of the way most small cams sound. It's not audiophile sound and it's not a high quality outboard mike sound, but it's certainly in the ballpark of any other small cam sound I've heard.
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post #18 of 24 Old 03-29-2007, 09:00 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ken Ross View Post

Cyrano, no the sound up front is fine. It's typical of the way most small cams sound. It's not audiophile sound and it's not a high quality outboard mike sound, but it's certainly in the ballpark of any other small cam sound I've heard.

Thanks, Ken. Sounds good.
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post #19 of 24 Old 04-01-2007, 11:31 AM
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Giot My Hv20 *waits For Ship*
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post #20 of 24 Old 04-01-2007, 11:32 AM
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im not like a new member , ive just been reading this whole time (everyday); well... i try to read every day. mostly these people keep me entertained hi blackbill, ken ross, cyrano, and who could for get kyerose (i think thats how it is)
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post #21 of 24 Old 04-01-2007, 12:25 PM
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Welcome aboard Sashimiboy....even though you've been 'lurking' out there.
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post #22 of 24 Old 04-01-2007, 12:50 PM
 
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Hello sashimiboy - Welcome! Be sure and let us know all about your HV20!

Lucky guy
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post #23 of 24 Old 04-02-2007, 07:18 PM
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how are people getting their cameras already, everywhere I look says 4/5. I needed one by Wednesday so I could film my brothers graduation from MP school, but it looks like I'm dragging the FX1 with me. Too bad, it would have been nice to pack light for once.
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post #24 of 24 Old 04-02-2007, 07:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by carguy84 View Post

how are people getting their cameras already, everywhere I look says 4/5. I needed one by Wednesday so I could film my brothers graduation from MP school, but it looks like I'm dragging the FX1 with me. Too bad, it would have been nice to pack light for once.

carguy84, sent you a private message.
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