Why no Panny HDC-SD1 talk? - Page 4 - AVS Forum
Forum Jump: 
Reply
 
Thread Tools
post #91 of 175 Old 06-17-2007, 11:27 AM
AVS Special Member
 
dp70's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 1999
Posts: 1,231
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
The OIS is very effective. It does appear to be more "active" than the OIS of my Canon GL1. When it's on, you can readily see the lag/dampening effect (lasting about 200-300 ms) when you make deliberate subtle movements of the camera. My experience with the HV20 is limited to playing with it in stores, but its OIS looked very good as well. Neither camera's implementation really stood out as being substantially better than the other's... they both work well.
dp70 is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #92 of 175 Old 06-17-2007, 11:37 AM
 
Cyrano's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Northwest Boonies
Posts: 5,738
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 90
Thanks, Mark. I remember a Canon I used years ago that had a slight "floating" effect that I liked.

Your reviews are helpful. I think I'm going to have to look into the SD3 (or the next gen. ).
Cyrano is offline  
post #93 of 175 Old 06-17-2007, 12:27 PM
AVS Special Member
 
dp70's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 1999
Posts: 1,231
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Just checked out all my recent footage on a CRT HDTV. Wow... the color is outstanding! Motion seemed smooth and natural... no real problems there. My wife gave the picture quality a big thumbs up.

I will say that the contrast seemed a little strong or "punchy" (on a TV calibrated to look good for normal OTA HDTV), but not horribly so. Because of this, the shadow detail seemed to be somewhat lacking in sunny outdoor scenes.

I tried some interior low light shots lit only by daylight from windows in early evening. They were dark, but not too noisy and definitely not unwatchable. The higher contrast (reducing shadow detail) seemed to still be a factor.

The audio had a bit of a hollow sound to it... might be due to listening to it in 2 channels (my receiver doesn't have HDMI either, so I'm stuck until I buy a Tomacro or Tvix box to play my AVCHD files on). Personally, I think this trend of putting the microphones flush with the TOP surface of the camera is a pretty dumb idea... they pick up less of the direct sound from the subject and more of the reflected sound from ceilings and walls, plus the slightest trace of wind creates nasty rumbling. Why bother with 5 channel sound when placing the mics so close together in such a poor location? My Canon GL1 had better mics and better placement of them. I might have to look into bolting on an external mic using the SD3's tripod mount.
dp70 is offline  
post #94 of 175 Old 06-17-2007, 02:19 PM
Newbie
 
gurkan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 11
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Mark do you think sd3 is worth to step up, while sd1 is available with 30% less in value?
I think there is a modified hand grip (can you menton handling a bit as well), a battery input and 1080i sensor...

I am wandering between hv20 - sd1 -sd3 ? your sincere opinions are wellcomed.
gurkan is offline  
post #95 of 175 Old 06-17-2007, 02:59 PM
AVS Special Member
 
dp70's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 1999
Posts: 1,231
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
I think the price is awfully attractive on the SD1... you can get it now for under $800 with full U.S. warranty. Both the SD1 and SD3 have the DC input jack for an external battery or AC adapter. Not sure if the imaging assembly is the same or different. I would guess that it is the same and only the downstream processing has changed. I was about to buy the SD1 myself when the opportunity arose to get an SD3 through a bartering arrangement with a friend in Japan. As for the HV20, I like Canon products in general, and I'm impressed by the footage I've seen from the HV20, but I didn't want to mess with tape again, and the rolling shutter (rows of the CMOS imaging sensor being read sequentially over time instead of all at the same time) seems to produce some strange visual artifacts (see the sample footage linked to in this thread).

I was concerned that the AVCHD .m2ts file format would be hard to deal with, but free software already exists in the Linux/Mac world to at least convert it to other formats, and you can already view it natively on a variety of platforms, including the $350 Tvix 4100SH media player. Over the next year, AVCHD support should become more commonplace.

Sony has several new AVCHD camcorders coming out in the next month - might be worth waiting for a shootout review if you can.
dp70 is offline  
post #96 of 175 Old 06-17-2007, 05:00 PM
Senior Member
 
cthame1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Illinois
Posts: 244
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
I got the HDC-SD1 this week from Circuit city and must say that I am very impressed with the picture quality! The colors and sharpness are outstanding, not honly with I hook it up for playback on my Sony HDTV, but also on a standard def. TV. Very clear and very impressive. I shot some footage this week end of my cousins reception, and everyone was amazed by the picture quality. In low light the camera does O.K, but with daylight there is no difference in my opinion from watching a high definition broadcast.

This is my first real video camera, so I have to get used to it, (remembering to make sure I hit the record button!) and general user jerkiness for a smooth shot, but I really love this camera! I'm still playing around with it and will be checking out this form frequently.

There are a few questions I have. I'd like to be able to burn the files on to a DVD and play them back on my PS3. The videos it seem are hidden under several subfolders, (eventually I saw them under the "stream folder") when you off load them on to the PC. The file formats are M2ts, not the AVCHD that I was looking for. I hope I won't be wasting a disc on experimenting. Hopefully I only have to copy these files and none of the other folders or files to playback on the PS3.

Also, I can't play the files back from my PC. Is there a codec that needs to be installed to get them to work through Media player 11?
cthame1 is offline  
post #97 of 175 Old 06-18-2007, 08:59 AM
Member
 
danxmanly's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Dallas, TX
Posts: 141
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
That's interesting on the guy saying he could write code to allow the panny files to be edited "with a little work" in Vegas. I firmly agree with what he said in that Sony is basically trying to use that crap to market their own cameras against Panasonics initially. Again, typical Sony BS. Wish I could find out what was involved in writing the code.. probably way over my head but maybe he could send it to Sony! LOL

For those interested, it looks like I may have found a source for spare batteries for the SD1.

http://www.fullcompass.com/product/338041.html

Says 3-4 weeks special order.. I ordered mine last week and was told a shipment was coming in this week and my order would be filled. We'll see... but at least it's better than what Panasonic told me direct which was nothing till September!
danxmanly is offline  
post #98 of 175 Old 06-18-2007, 03:25 PM
Newbie
 
Guy Bruner's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Woodstock, GA
Posts: 5
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:


There are a few questions I have. I'd like to be able to burn the files on to a DVD and play them back on my PS3. The videos it seem are hidden under several subfolders, (eventually I saw them under the "stream folder") when you off load them on to the PC. The file formats are M2ts, not the AVCHD that I was looking for. I hope I won't be wasting a disc on experimenting. Hopefully I only have to copy these files and none of the other folders or files to playback on the PS3.

All you have to do is make a data DVD...just copy the M2TS files over from your hard disk. The individual files should play fine on a PS3 with version 1.8 firmware. You can also burn a DVD using the HDWriter software. That also should play on a PS3, but probably not on your computer unless you have UDF 2.5 compatible software (like Nero INCD) installed or a Blu-ray ROM drive. The M2TS files are encapsulated AVCHD, not MPEG2. M2TS is simply the transport container (like AVI) and can be either MPEG2 or H.264.

BTW, I own both the HV20 and SD1. Video quality on each camcorder is very close. The HV20 is more sensitive in low light, although the chroma artifacts really show up in extremely low light. I think the OIS performs similarly. The control features on the HV20 are significantly more extensive than the SD1. The SD1 is smaller than the HV20 but not by much. I prefer to shoot with the HV20 because I can hold it conventionally. If I shoot with the SD1, I cradle it rather than hold it cupped in my right hand. It is just more comfortable for me that way.

Guy
Pana3CCDUser
Guy Bruner is offline  
post #99 of 175 Old 06-18-2007, 08:22 PM
Senior Member
 
cthame1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Illinois
Posts: 244
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by Guy Bruner View Post

All you have to do is make a data DVD...just copy the M2TS files over from your hard disk. The individual files should play fine on a PS3 with version 1.8 firmware. You can also burn a DVD using the HDWriter software. That also should play on a PS3, but probably not on your computer unless you have UDF 2.5 compatible software (like Nero INCD) installed or a Blu-ray ROM drive. The M2TS files are encapsulated AVCHD, not MPEG2. M2TS is simply the transport container (like AVI) and can be either MPEG2 or H.264.

BTW, I own both the HV20 and SD1. Video quality on each camcorder is very close. The HV20 is more sensitive in low light, although the chroma artifacts really show up in extremely low light. I think the OIS performs similarly. The control features on the HV20 are significantly more extensive than the SD1. The SD1 is smaller than the HV20 but not by much. I prefer to shoot with the HV20 because I can hold it conventionally. If I shoot with the SD1, I cradle it rather than hold it cupped in my right hand. It is just more comfortable for me that way.

Guy
Pana3CCDUser


Thanks a lot Guy! That really helps. Now for a really obvious question. I want to create a regular DVD, (capable of being played in a standard def, or upscale DVD player). It won't be high def, but I'm not looking for that here. How can I do it? Is there anyway I can convert the M2TS files to MPEG, suitable for playback on the PC, without loosing the high def quality?
cthame1 is offline  
post #100 of 175 Old 06-19-2007, 10:39 AM
Newbie
 
Guy Bruner's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Woodstock, GA
Posts: 5
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
No. You can make a standard def DVD from HD MPEG2 or H.264, but you can't retain all of the high def quality. Some folks find that downconverted hidef results in better looking standard def, though.

Of course, you can convert AVCHD to HD MPEG2 for the computer. Elecard makes a converter application. Nero 7 will do it also. Pinnacle Studio 11 and Ulead Movie Studio 11 will edit AVCHD natively and you can save it out to other formats, like HD MPEG2, Xvid, DivX, etc. We have a couple of software engineers in Japan working on a freebie file converter application right now. It should be ready for testing soon. So, more solutions are coming...

Guy
Pana3CCDUser
Guy Bruner is offline  
post #101 of 175 Old 06-19-2007, 10:48 AM
Advanced Member
 
sbarrier's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: High Point, NC
Posts: 582
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Hi Guy, welcome to the forums.

I've also read where Panasonic's version of AVCHD will be editable in Sony's next version of Vegas, which is due out this summer (supposedly).

While I belive AVCHD is certainly bleeding edge now, I think that it will rapidly become the norm due to the numerous advantages over tape.
sbarrier is offline  
post #102 of 175 Old 06-19-2007, 12:02 PM
Newbie
 
Guy Bruner's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Woodstock, GA
Posts: 5
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Thanks for the welcome, sbarrier. I've actually been a member here for a long time, but was inactive for too long, apparently.

I don't think Sony has officially said when they will support Panasonic's version of AVCHD. They claim they didn't with 7.0e because they didn't have a cam to test. That was so obvious a lie that it would have been funny if it hadn't been so typical of Sony. Way back when they announced they would be supporting AVCHD with an update to Vegas, they said they would incorporate it into version 8 of Vegas Movie Studio in July. Well, they partially lied about supporting it in the Vegas update so I have no reason to believe they'll incorporate it into VMS8. I DO expect Panasonic owners to have to pay for an upgrade to get the ability to edit in Vegas and is a really sad perversion of what used to be the most respected and agnostic underground video editing software around.

I do believe that optical and flash media is where video recording is headed. We just need for the media to last as long as the battery at highest quality. The next big thing will be holographic media in a couple of years...
Guy Bruner is offline  
post #103 of 175 Old 06-21-2007, 08:14 AM
Member
 
danxmanly's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Dallas, TX
Posts: 141
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
"Of course, you can convert AVCHD to HD MPEG2 for the computer. Elecard makes a converter application. .... We have a couple of software engineers in Japan working on a freebie file converter application right now."

I've tried the elecard but still can't get Vegas to recognize the MPEG2 file it creates. Only way I can edit my panny files in vegas is to recode the AVCHD file to MPEG2 with Ulead right now. Lot's of extra wasted time obviously in converting it in Ulead, then editing in Vegas, then rendering again. Not fun when you're talking the file sizes and rez's we're dealing with now.

Hope your feebie file converter arrives soon!

And for those interested.. my extra battery shipped in one week from fullcompass. Panasonic direct quoted backorder and not available till Sept.. plus of course $30 higher.
danxmanly is offline  
post #104 of 175 Old 06-21-2007, 09:29 AM
 
Cyrano's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Northwest Boonies
Posts: 5,738
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 90
Quote:
Originally Posted by Guy Bruner View Post

BTW, I own both the HV20 and SD1. Video quality on each camcorder is very close. The HV20 is more sensitive in low light, although the chroma artifacts really show up in extremely low light. I think the OIS performs similarly.
Guy
Pana3CCDUser

So, the OIS of each machine is the same? Have you shot extensive (and demanding) handheld shots with each camcorder? (Zoom at max w/each as well)

I am going to get an HD camcorder and I need the one with the superior OIS.

Thanks for any thoughts you have.
Cyrano is offline  
post #105 of 175 Old 06-21-2007, 01:39 PM
Member
 
digitalorange's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Orange County, CA
Posts: 15
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark Fontana View Post

For Memorial Day, CC's advertising the SD1 for $829... use one of those AAA 10% coupons and it's just $746 before tax, even beating B&H's $799 (currently the lowest from a reputable dealer). Details on getting the 10% coupon:

(1) go here: http://www.aaa.com/circuitcity
(2) use zip code 94111 or other California ZIP code
(3) choose "enter as non-member" (option not available unless ZIP is in California)
(4) enter your email address
(5) coupon arrives in as as little as 30 minutes
(6) locate HV20 at circuitcity.com
(7) during check-out enter online coupon 10%-off code

(if you prefer, you can just print the coupon and give it to the clerk at CC)

I get an error when trying to click the link on the site to get the coupon. Anyone else having the same trouble?
digitalorange is offline  
post #106 of 175 Old 06-21-2007, 01:57 PM
Advanced Member
 
sbarrier's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: High Point, NC
Posts: 582
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Just tried it and it works for me.
sbarrier is offline  
post #107 of 175 Old 06-21-2007, 02:13 PM
Newbie
 
gurkan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 11
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
cyrano, expressions like mega ois super ultra ois etc. are for marketing purposes.
I checked some video samples from hv20 and sd1 and tried the on exhibiton ones and never felt like one was more superior, and both are not able to supply the stable video I want. (my gs500 as well) I mean hand shake is obvious, so I always shoot with tripod if possible.

One more point. I think the handling quality and weight also effects the stable shooting deeply. So in the real world, besides OIS, these are a trade off as well.
gurkan is offline  
post #108 of 175 Old 06-21-2007, 02:21 PM
Member
 
latedate's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Champaign, IL
Posts: 93
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by digitalorange View Post

I get an error when trying to click the link on the site to get the coupon. Anyone else having the same trouble?

I get a javascript error. Doesn't work using either Firefox 2.0.0.4 in linux nor IE7 in Windows XP...
latedate is offline  
post #109 of 175 Old 06-21-2007, 04:10 PM
 
Cyrano's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Northwest Boonies
Posts: 5,738
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 90
Quote:
Originally Posted by gurkan View Post

cyrano, expressions like mega ois super ultra ois etc. are for marketing purposes.
I checked some video samples from hv20 and sd1 and tried the on exhibiton ones and never felt like one was more superior, and both are not able to supply the stable video I want. (my gs500 as well) I mean hand shake is obvious, so I always shoot with tripod if possible.

One more point. I think the handling quality and weight also effects the stable shooting deeply. So in the real world, besides OIS, these are a trade off as well.

Hi gurkan, I mostly agree. I was not comparing nomenclature (mega ois super ultra ois etc.), I was interested in real world results. I don't want to assume that the only difference between OIS systems is a marketing name. I may miss getting the best one. I want what is truly the best. I think it's worth looking into. (But your inference that they are all the same may be right.)

In the shooting I have done in France and Italy I got some very good handheld shots. I like to catch life w/o much gear in view. I used a tripod for many years when shooting Musicals and straight plays for theater groups. I liked using tripods. But they don't work for street shooting as I like to do it.

I agree that the "heft" of a camera, its balance and the ergonomics of it are important. I also think the OIS is a very important part of the scenario. Some may think tripods supply the only viable method of recording life. I disagree. I use a monopod for some "setup" shots. But, in the main, I like the fluidity of GOOD handheld work. There is more to say about handheld work but I am mostly interested in finding the best OIS I can find. And I seek advice from those who have compared different cameras. (Even when that advice disagrees with me. )

Thanks for your thoughts.
Cyrano is offline  
post #110 of 175 Old 06-22-2007, 12:22 AM
Member
 
latedate's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Champaign, IL
Posts: 93
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cyrano View Post

Hi gurkan, I mostly agree. I was not comparing nomenclature (mega ois super ultra ois etc.), I was interested in real world results. I don't want to assume that the only difference between OIS systems is a marketing name. I may miss getting the best one. I want what is truly the best. I think it's worth looking into. (But your inference that they are all the same may be right.)

In the shooting I have done in France and Italy I got some very good handheld shots. I like to catch life w/o much gear in view. I used a tripod for many years when shooting Musicals and straight plays for theater groups. I liked using tripods. But they don't work for street shooting as I like to do it.

I agree that the "heft" of a camera, its balance and the ergonomics of it are important. I also think the OIS is a very important part of the scenario. Some may think tripods supply the only viable method of recording life. I disagree. I use a monopod for some "setup" shots. But, in the main, I like the fluidity of GOOD handheld work. There is more to say about handheld work but I am mostly interested in finding the best OIS I can find. And I seek advice from those who have compared different cameras. (Even when that advice disagrees with me. )

Thanks for your thoughts.


Hi Cyrano,

I agree 100% with you about tripod use. Sometimes (and quite often in my personal use) it is not practical to whip out a tripod! But I have to tell you, I have been getting pretty good at holding my Canon HV20 with steady hands. The OIS on it is by no means perfect, especially at high levels of zoom, but with practice I can even get good footage at full zoom (but not for long periods of time as it gets tiring at full zoom; I can go much longer periods with no zoom).

This may or may not help you (if not, I apologize), but I have learned in the past few months a method of holding the camera that works for me and gives me very good results. I use two hands to hold the camcorder making sure I have a firm grip with both. Also, I extend my elbows outward while at the same time applying pressure *into* the camera (but not too hard where I risk breaking the camera). The more I zoom in, the more I tend to apply more pressure (and I also tend to raise my elbows more too). It seems to me that these cameras are getting more and more compact and lighter which forced me to change my shooting style to compensate.

Chris
latedate is offline  
post #111 of 175 Old 06-22-2007, 06:53 AM
Newbie
 
gurkan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 11
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
quoted from cci...

Stabilization (7.13)

We tested the HV20 at Speed 1, equivalent to the shake produced while holding a camcorder and standing still; and Speed 2, equivalent to the more intense shake of a moving vehicle. The Canon HV20's OIS reduced recorded image shake by approximately 83% at Speed 1, and 36% at Speed 2. Measuring the motion difference between footage shot with OIS off and OIS on derived these calculations.

another qoute...

Stabilization (9.03)

We tested the SD1's OIS system using our camcorder shake emulator, custom built for Camcorderinfo.com. The shake emulator can be adjusted to produce movements at differing intensities and frequencies. We tested the SD1 at Speed 1, equivalent to the shake produced while holding a camcorder and standing still; and Speed 2, equivalent to the more intense shake of a moving vehicle.

The Panasonic SD1's OIS system reduced recorded image shake by approximately 91% at Speed 1, and 88% at Speed 2. We derived these calculations by measuring the motion difference between footage shot with OIS off, and OIS on.

The Speed 2 score shows an amazing degree of stabilization - most high-end camcorders with OIS systems do well at Speed 1, but relatively poorly at Speed 2. This camcorder maintained terrific stability even under extreme vibration. Kudos to Panasonic's engineers on this OIS system - it leads the consumer camcorder industry in this area.

Acc. to these solid looking experimental judges, given the OIS performances (ceteris paribus) sd1 looks like a winner. hope this helps cyrano.
gurkan is offline  
post #112 of 175 Old 06-22-2007, 11:42 PM
 
Cyrano's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Northwest Boonies
Posts: 5,738
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 90
Hey latedate and gurkan-thanks for the edifying posts.

I went to Best Buy today and checked out the SD1 and the HV20. The SD1 is reputed to be the finest handling HD camcorder in that cci HD camcorder shootout.

Handling the camcorders today didn't show me much about what I could expect in usage. I like how the SD1 sits in my hand. It is a bit small and my last two fingers hit the Mic area. (The rear right surround mic. - And I hit the mics on the Canon, too.) I know I'll have to figure out a way not to have "surface noise". I don't get the utilitarian attributes of mics that point up.
One thing I really like about the SD1 is the 4 - 48mm lens (**35mm equivalent: 28 - 336mm). The HV20 is 6.1 - 61mm (35mm equivalent: 43 - 427mm). The wider angle SD1 is much better for location shooting as the wider angle allows for more relaxed framing when needed. And 28mm is a nice "really wide" amount. Not too extreme.
Handheld shooting is much easier to watch when wide angle smooths out the "bumps". The lack of extreme zoom range removes temptation. And the OIS of the panasonic tests better.

I am still concerned with editability. It's useless to me w/o complete access by NLE software. And I don't want to do another step that might result in corrupted files occurring. (Especially when that occurrence is in the middle of rendering, after a long editing session)
I don't want to be a Beta tester. I need it to work with whatever software I'm using. The Canon will do that but I will need to add the giant "schnozz" of a protuberance that the wide angle lens attachment resembles. I'd really rather have the more ergonomic, better handling SD1.

I'll just wait until the last possible moment to buy - in case some new model incorporates more of what I need.

Latedate: I'll have to try your camera holding method. I agree that the lightness and compactness of today's camcorders can make handling difficult.
I do find that when I must be steady I close the LCD and use the eyepiece. Using the eyepiece locks my head, hands and camera together. When I need to be even steadier I sit down. (Of course the SD1 doesn't have an eyepiece so now I'm very confused )

EDIT: ** The 35mm equivalent I mentioned may be wrong for the SD1. I read a higher number for the low end somewhere (can't find it again) but it is certainly wider than the Canon.
Cyrano is offline  
post #113 of 175 Old 06-23-2007, 07:00 AM
Newbie
 
Guy Bruner's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Woodstock, GA
Posts: 5
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
I find the OIS on the SD1 to be slightly better than the HV20. However, I tend to use an unextended monopod even at wide zooms because the camcorders handle better for me that way. I can stick the foot in my belt for added stabilization and walk with it to get some moving shots without too much shake. At long zooms, it is almost imperative that you use some type of stabilizer because hand motion shows up more with HD than SD. I guess, for me, the difference in OIS between the two is not a deal breaker. But, YMMV.

It is true that the SD1 has a wider field of view over the HV20. That was one of the first things I noticed as I shot video simultaneously with them for testing. Plus, the depth of field on the HV20 is shallower than the SD1. It is easier to get that movie rack focus look with the HV20 that everyone seems to love.

When I was reporting on the SD1 at CES, I used the trial Elecard Converter Suite to transcode the AVCHD. It worked ok but was too expensive. Later, I found that Nero 7 would do it too. Now, I use Nero to transcode to MPEG2 since I already have and use it. However, transcoding to the HDV format doesn't work for editing in Vegas. I have to convert it to full 1920x1080 before Vegas will accept the video. If you don't already have a favorite editing application, then Pinnacle Studio 11 and Ulead Video Studio 11 will both edit AVCHD. Or, if you have deep pockets, Canopus Edius Broadcast will edit it after converting into the Canopus HD codec. Another work around is to buy Cineform's Neo. This will capture and transcode AVCHD to CFHD lossless which is more easility edited than native AVCHD. But, it costs $250.
Guy Bruner is offline  
post #114 of 175 Old 06-23-2007, 11:07 AM
 
Cyrano's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Northwest Boonies
Posts: 5,738
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 90
Guy -
Good points. The Monopod thing is something I'll try. When I shot in Paris and Venice I really wanted to be as invisible as possible. A monopod can be setup to effect a steadicam-type of effect (using the foot and the tripod handle grip), but I don't want to be "noticed" (anymore than just as a tourist, if at all - most of the time, there are exceptions to that rule, of course). I'm very happy with a lot of the substance of the footage I got in Europe last Fall.

BUT - I do want to attain a smoother, clearer image.

I used Ulead's VideoStudio 9 for my editing and it went well. I would like the superior transitions Vegas offers but the work flow went much faster for me with Ulead. Lots of extra moves are necessary with Vegas. And I really use straight cuts and crossfades for the vast majority of transitions.
My concern with Ulead was when rendering was being done. I had a couple of stills that were stitched Jpegs and one or two had to be rooted out as a cause for rendering to stop. I had a couple of other (corrupt) file problems that had to be sought out (time-consuming) and fixed or removed.
I don't know if this is a problem unique to Ulead's Video Studio 9 but I don't want to have the problem again.

I have read some criticisms of VideoStudio 11 that have to do with limited capture capabilities. And since Corel has taken over Ulead people are having trouble getting technical help and fixes. I'd like to try VideoStudio 11. And I'd like to try AVCHD. For one thing apparently the code allows for easy archiving onto DVDs. Is this truly so?
Having all 20 hours of my Europe trip on MiniDVs is good for archiving. But each tape is a minimum of 12 gigs and a couple are close to 20 gigs. So backing them up on DVDs isn't happening. I do think tape might be a good way to archive. But I don't want to discount any future improvements.

Anyway - the SD1 stills looks good but the HV20 is a surer bet. I don't need to buy until our next trip in October, so I'll wait to see what appears.
Cyrano is offline  
post #115 of 175 Old 06-23-2007, 03:44 PM
AVS Special Member
 
dp70's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 1999
Posts: 1,231
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Regarding the five microphones all bunched together on top of the camera, it would be an interesting project to replace them with a six-pin header epoxied to the top of the camera. To this header, one could connect a cable to five external mics mounted, facing appropriate directions, on a styrofoam bike helmet core that the camera operator would wear while shooting.
dp70 is offline  
post #116 of 175 Old 06-24-2007, 10:09 AM
 
Cyrano's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Northwest Boonies
Posts: 5,738
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 90
HERE is a review of the SD1.

I would like this camera to work out but the editing and archiving concerns are pretty crucial.
Cyrano is offline  
post #117 of 175 Old 07-02-2007, 05:15 PM
Member
 
danxmanly's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Dallas, TX
Posts: 141
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Ok, just downloaded the trial version of sony studio plat 8 as I believe it was "rumored" that it would handle the panny AVCHD files. Well... I can't drag and drop them to the timeline, import them, or anything. It just gives the unrecognized file type error. So.. back to waiting for another update to Vegas.. perhaps 7.0f??

Will there ever be a trial version to Pinnacle 11? I have Ulead now but just don't like it's flow but at least use it to "convert" the files to be able to use in Vegas. Don't like buying stuff before I can try it so please, pinnacle if you're listening.. trial version por favor. ;-)

Running out of options as my trial to ulead runs up in a week.
danxmanly is offline  
post #118 of 175 Old 07-02-2007, 06:30 PM
Advanced Member
 
sbarrier's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: High Point, NC
Posts: 582
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Dan,

Was it Vegas 8 or 7? I didn't think that 8 had been released yet.
sbarrier is offline  
post #119 of 175 Old 07-02-2007, 06:55 PM
Member
 
danxmanly's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Dallas, TX
Posts: 141
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Sony has a way of confusing us..

Sony Vegas 8 has not been released.. it's the upper end. Only 7.0e is out and it only does the Sony camera AVCHD files... not panasonic's.

Sony Vegas Movie Studio Platinum is midlevel and it just released. I had read it would allow Panasonic hidef camera files to be edited... but no such luck.

This link will help clarify..

http://www.sonycreativesoftware.com/...egasfamily.asp

Perhaps there will be a Vegas 7.0f build.. otherwise they'll be an upgrade charge to a version 8 release I'm sure.
danxmanly is offline  
post #120 of 175 Old 07-03-2007, 06:06 PM
Newbie
 
Guy Bruner's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Woodstock, GA
Posts: 5
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Sony Vegas MS Platinum 8 has been released. It still only supports Sony AVCHD cams.
Guy Bruner is offline  
Reply Camcorders

User Tag List

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page


Forum Jump: 

Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off