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post #31 of 49 Old 04-21-2007, 10:14 PM
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Originally Posted by mkaplan View Post

Interesting... I ordered the H4 last week. I want to use it as an external mic for my HV20. I have heard great things about it and anxiously await it's delivery this week.

A couple of questions...
Can you use the 2 XLR inputs and mix with the built-in mics at the same time? I want to get the XLR feed off the board and capture the live audience with the mics.

From the H4 manual:

Select input source
You can select either the signal from the [INPUT 1]/[INPUT 2] jacks or the built-in stereo mic as input source to be assigned to the stereo tracks.

a link to the H4 PDF manual here:

http://www.samsontech.com/products/p...1901&brandID=4


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Originally Posted by mkaplan View Post

I have heard some sound samples but in your opinion, are the built-in mics really REALLY good or after using them, wll I be disappointed and want better mics? This is more for recording a live show I do every year; mixed musical play and cabaret song and dance.
Thanks

although i play a couple of instruments, my ears are quite bad due to being a lifelong target shooter and a couple of years on an aircraft carrier. [g] so i'm not the one to ask. for comparison though, i find the built in mics sound just nearly exactly as good as a samson c01u usb mic (found here: http://www.zzounds.com/item--SAMC01U) into my mac, but the zoom is so much more versatile than just using that single mic.

i will say that dozens of folks on the acoustic guitar forum where i hang out have bought the zoom and are extremely pleased with it no matter whether they use the built in mics or the xlr ports with their own mics. i've only used mine in a quiet room within inches of the sound source, but others on the forum have used it to record live events--plugging straight into the board in some cases.

and i understand that zoom is coming out with a model supposed to be $100 less expensive w/o the xlr ports and only 2 track vs 4 track. it might even be more ideal as a companion to a video camera ... especially since this article says it includes 5.1 recording mode:

http://homerecording.about.com/od/ne..._h2_review.htm

in short, i can't imagine anyone other than the pickiest recording engineer being dissatisfied with the zoom h4 if used within its design parameters.

/guy

We were somewhere around the Withywindle on the edge of the Old Forest when the drugs began to take hold. ~Hunter S. Tolkien
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post #32 of 49 Old 04-22-2007, 09:00 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gteague View Post

many thanks for the detailed response and the links.

i've read about the 'pulldown' while updating my a/v system this month. it seems that this can be done automatically at the dvd player and at the tv when they detect 'film' or 'cinematic' material. which raises the interesting question of whether such a tv would detect and pulldown when the camera is used as a deck and played via the hdmi cable. or whether the new pioneer tv's which accept 24p input would detect it. from what you said, i'm guess this would not be the case as they would not be able to peer inside the 60i wrapper, right?

/guy


I'd be very interested to know this as well. It looks like I will most likely have to research models of HDTV sets (and DVD players) before making the "HD plunge" myself (I'm still watching SDTV) as I've read most HDTV sets fail to correctly implement deinterlacing and/or inverse telecine; this can lead to resolution loss of up to 50%!

http://www.hometheatermag.com/hookmeup/1106hook/

From the above article, they performed the deinterlace and inverse telecine tests using:

"... test patterns come from Silicon Optix's new high-definition 1080i HQV test disc played on the Toshiba HD-XA1 HD DVD player. "

So, I'm assuming that the DVD does not perform any ivtc or deinterlacing and relies on the TV processor? Hmmm... Also, the article mentions that:

"Many scripted television and all film-based movies that telecast in 1080i HD are recorded at 24 frames per second. For broadcast, this is converted from film or 1080p/24 video to 1080i/30 using a telecine conversion."

What the heck is 1080i/30? Do they mean 1080i/60? I thought that the Canon outputs 24P in a 1080i/60 container. Are these the same thing? This crap is confusing indeed. I just hope I can educate myself enough before I'm in the market for HD. Is it too much to ask for proper deinterlace and ivtc? I hope not
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post #33 of 49 Old 04-22-2007, 07:19 PM
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Originally Posted by flyingscott View Post

Yeah, HD is demanding... I'm running on a 24" Core 2 Duo iMac, 2GB ram.

I edit all my video in Final Cut pro off a 500gb external drive (FireWire 800).

I wanted a reason to upgrade to the new MacPro, but my machine handles everything fine.

If anyone wants to see a specific test, I would be more than happy to shoot a sample.

ah ! similar situation here. On iMac CD 2ghz (20") and was considering as I "switch" to hd I might want a MacPro. In truth, it is good to hear the iMac can handle it; I want to wait a bit longer before getting the MacPro (or its successor).

Anyhow, I wanted to ask you already since I suspected you used Mac (now I know) about some basic stuff.

What are the ideal settings for capturing into FCP ? I guess it depends on how we shot, but I guess there are virtually only two formats with the HV20, 24p and 1080i.

I tried today for the first time to connect the cam to my iMac: after a few guesses I did get to see my hv20 in the capture window, but I had changed so many things that I was a bit lost so I bet you it was not correct, it just happened to work. I did not capture anything.

I did see your thread on workflow for 24p not sure if and how much of that applies to 1080.

thx !

PS: hold on ! I am going through this thread right now and I see there's lots of info here, so my questions could in part already be answered in prior post. I might have more specific questions later. By the way, very neat video you posted elsehwere (Flyingscott-SpeedyHV20127.mov).
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post #34 of 49 Old 04-24-2007, 11:31 AM - Thread Starter
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Windwaves,

I am really, really happy with my iMac's performance editing HDV. It is very fluid, and working in "2 up" mode with HD on a 24" monitor is a beautiful thing!

I see you may have answered your question(s). But, just to reiterate, I capture using 1080i/60 HDV and apple intermediate codec... this is for 24p footage. For 1080i footage, I just use easy setup 1080i/60. I have not had any capture issues using easy setup

I have done A LOT of testing over the past few weeks and my head is still spinning. What I have personally realized is that the 24p mode is not really worth it... IMO. It does have a nice "cinematic" look, but the post process tasks are a pain when you start dealing with lots of clips. Plus, you have to be very cautious with your movements (pans) when shooting 24fps, otherwise it looks really bad. I thought about writing some apple script to assist, but I have noticed that the cadence is not always the same.

You may sacrifice a little detail, but 1080i still looks stellar. If the new FCP has some black magic that will help with the workflow, then I may revert - at times. But for now I'm 1080i all the time.

Anyhow, that's my 2 cents on it...

I'm glad you liked my movie, I was just doing some testing with different techniques.

Later,

Scott


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post #35 of 49 Old 04-24-2007, 07:42 PM
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thank you Scott. And no, I had not found much answers yet, except for some trial and error so I happy you confirm some of the settings.

24p..yes, it's messy, I suspected so from a little readings (including yours!!!). As for myself I was not even considering it, plus I suspect for 24p one would need a different camera, but I am no expert whatsoever.

And I am very happy to hear that the iMac is perfectly fine - while tempted, I really want to postpone the purchase of a mac tower. However one thing that I have heard a bit consistently is that FW400 may not be sufficient for HDV, minimum FW800, ideally some raid set-up.

Well, we'll see, I have enough material to start experimenting; if my iMac, which only has FW400, suffers then I have a real problem.

ww.
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post #36 of 49 Old 04-24-2007, 07:50 PM
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Scott, one question about using FW external drives.

Is there a way to turn to avoid having the drive(s) go to sleep whenever not accessed for a certainl period of time ? It can be annoying.
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post #37 of 49 Old 04-24-2007, 08:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by windwaves View Post

Scott, one question about using FW external drives.

Is there a way to turn to avoid having the drive(s) go to sleep whenever not accessed for a certainl period of time ? It can be annoying.

for the mac there is a utility called 'tinkertool system' which will allow you to set the sleep timeouts for the internal drives.

i don't think i've ever noticed an external drive go to sleep. it seems like if it went into too deep a sleep the computer might be at risk of losing track of it.

/guy

We were somewhere around the Withywindle on the edge of the Old Forest when the drugs began to take hold. ~Hunter S. Tolkien
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post #38 of 49 Old 04-25-2007, 07:22 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gteague View Post

for the mac there is a utility called 'tinkertool system' which will allow you to set the sleep timeouts for the internal drives.

i don't think i've ever noticed an external drive go to sleep. it seems like if it went into too deep a sleep the computer might be at risk of losing track of it.

/guy


External FW (firewire) hard-drives all go to sleep. The question is whether this can be changed. I actually have some doubts ....
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post #39 of 49 Old 04-25-2007, 07:26 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by windwaves View Post

Scott, one question about using FW external drives.

Is there a way to turn to avoid having the drive(s) go to sleep whenever not accessed for a certain period of time ? It can be annoying.


Not sure, I just deal with the 2-3 second lag after I have been away from my computer for awhile.

What annoys me is that when my computer sleeps and I wake it up, I get the nasty device remove message. Then I have to cycle the power button, now that is a pain.

I did have this problem fixed for a while, but it seems to be happening again... but not all the time. Very weird.


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post #40 of 49 Old 04-25-2007, 09:17 AM
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Originally Posted by flyingscott View Post

Not sure, I just deal with the 2-3 second lag after I have been away from my computer for awhile.

What annoys me is that when my computer sleeps and I wake it up, I get the nasty device remove message. Then I have to cycle the power button, now that is a pain.

I did have this problem fixed for a while, but it seems to be happening again... but not all the time. Very weird.

just to make sure, I was only referring to the fw hd itself going to "sleep". This happens withing a few minutes if the drive isn't accessed. So it just happens while you work...

If you are instead referring to the Mac going to sleep, that is a whole different story. That at least can be managed, you could even set it to never going to sleep. From experience I would not let the mac go to sleep with a fw hd mounted (as well as other external devices), I would expect problems. Very risky

ww.
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post #41 of 49 Old 04-25-2007, 09:23 AM
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and btw, what's working in "2 up" mode ?
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post #42 of 49 Old 04-25-2007, 12:21 PM - Thread Starter
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if you go to window -> arrange you will see a preset for "Two Up"... all this does is make your viewer and canvas larger and side by side... then it puts the browser and timeline below. Its just a personal preference.

With the aspect ratio of HD, it works great on my 24"... I can have both the viewer and canvas at 50%... NICE! :P


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post #43 of 49 Old 04-25-2007, 03:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by windwaves View Post

just to make sure, I was only referring to the fw hd itself going to "sleep". This happens withing a few minutes if the drive isn't accessed. So it just happens while you work...

If you are instead referring to the Mac going to sleep, that is a whole different story. That at least can be managed, you could even set it to never going to sleep. From experience I would not let the mac go to sleep with a fw hd mounted (as well as other external devices), I would expect problems. Very risky

ww.

that's what confused me. of course drives go into what i would call 'standby' or powersave mode after a short period. but going to sleep is a different matter, as windwaves points out, sleep on a mac is quite a different proposition.

/guy

We were somewhere around the Withywindle on the edge of the Old Forest when the drugs began to take hold. ~Hunter S. Tolkien
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post #44 of 49 Old 04-25-2007, 06:48 PM
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yes, it sounds like "standby" is a better word. However the problems only occurs with external (and FW) drives, at least as far as I know.

With internal drives there's no such issue. Well, in part at least. In my dual PM g4, where I have 3 drives installed internally, there is one of them which does go into "standby". I am not sure which one (never really spent much time trying to find out) however it can be somewhat painfull when listening to music and periodically and consistently being interrupted by a drive waking up.

One thing I know though: the option, in the energy panel of syst. preferences, "put the drive to sleep whenever..." does not apply to all drives, if at all. But I will try this again as I have not in a long time.
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post #45 of 49 Old 04-28-2007, 02:07 PM
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Really enjoyed the camera quality.
HDV is way better than AVCHD.

Now tell me something, how did you achieve that shallow DOP while filming the plant?

Is there a way i can adjust the depth of the focus like this?

I've read that you can adjust the zoom speed, to achive low crawl.
Is that right?

Please let me know because I'm thinking about buying one HV20.
Thanks!


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post #46 of 49 Old 04-28-2007, 05:20 PM
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Another thing:

Can you upload the file captured directed from the camera, not rendered as .MOV

I would like to analise it with GSpot program.

Thanks.
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post #47 of 49 Old 04-29-2007, 05:52 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Impagliazzo View Post

Now tell me something, how did you achieve that shallow DOP while filming the plant?

Is there a way i can adjust the depth of the focus like this?

Yes. A blurred background is achieved by opening the aperture. The more it is open the less DOF (Depth Of Field) there is which means there is less area in focus. By either shooting in Sports Mode which forces a greater shutter speed therefore less light getting in therefore wider aperture or you can shoot in Av and set the shutter to its lowest settings (wide open... lower number means aperture is more open) as long as there is enough light to achieve it or not too much light.

Quote:


I've read that you can adjust the zoom speed, to achieve low crawl.
Is that right?

There are 4 settings; Slow, Med Fast & Variable. In Variable mode there is a 4th speed if the camera is in Pause Mode.

Quote:


Please let me know because I'm thinking about buying one HV20.
Thanks!

Great camera, you will love it!
Michael
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post #48 of 49 Old 04-29-2007, 10:38 AM
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Thank you very much Michael.
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post #49 of 49 Old 04-29-2007, 07:15 PM - Thread Starter
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Yes... what Michael said

I would post the original, except with all my testing I have been doing I have re-recorded over that tape... Sorry.


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