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Old 04-18-2007, 08:18 PM - Thread Starter
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I'm new to the editing and I would like to ask for some help. I have a Canon HV20 and would like to know which editing software to use: Vegas 7, Premier pro, or the new final cut (apple), do I need firewire to download onto my computer because all that came with the camcorder is a USB...if I need firewire then can I use my apple to edit? I thought the HV20 was only windows compatible since apple supports bluray...thanks for all the help!

John
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Old 04-18-2007, 09:25 PM
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Hi John91C.

I use a several combinations of software programs to Edit in the HDV format. It starts with getting the HDV off of my HV-10 to my PC. For that, I use capdvhs which is a free ware program. I then load the file into Video Redo for basic cutting and converting the file to a complient MPEG 2 Program Stream. Then I send that file to Ulead Video Studio 10 for adding transitions and music files and the like. Then I use Ulead Movie Factory Six to create HD-DVDs using standard DVD+/-R disks. I set up MF6 to force the audio from MPA (MPEG1 audio which is 2 Channel stereo) to a bitstream Dolby Digital 2.0 compliant mix. That way I can play my created HD-DVD in my Toshiba HD-A1 without having to change the audio out to PCM when it is hooked up using the optical out.
If you would like, I could create a quick guide on my procedure for how I edit and so-forth.
Its kind of a hodge podge way of going about it but I can tell you that no one right now can do it all. I actually own Adobe Premier and it is very difficult to learn on and everything is an add-on and it can really hurt your wallet. Stay away from anything that Pinnacle makes. The most robust system right now is Final Cut but you still have to convert the movie three times to get it to play on an HD-DVD player right now. Vegas is the only one I have not played with and I tried using the demo when they offered it. When I loaded it on my machine, it crashed.
Good luck.


Let me know.
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Old 04-18-2007, 09:33 PM
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Say what?
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Old 04-18-2007, 10:12 PM
 
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Say what?

Great response.
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Old 04-19-2007, 07:42 AM
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Great response.

Tragically, I now realize my dreams of putting the family vacation to Wallyworld on DVD is in serious question...I don't think I have sense enough to do all that.
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Old 04-19-2007, 10:54 AM
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It really isnt as bad as it sounds. Most of the moving of files in plug and play. The skill is going to be in tweaking the video to squeeze out the best picture possible. But always remember that you can go back to the tape if need be. So if you screw it up, you can always start over.

My only advice, while my experience is limited, is get as fast of a computer as you can afford with TONS of RAM and great video card.
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Old 04-19-2007, 03:45 PM
 
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Originally Posted by stepmback View Post

My only advice, while my experience is limited, is get as fast of a computer as you can afford with TONS of RAM and great video card.

Agreed! Last Fall I edited 20 hours of video from Europe down to an hour and 10. It took a very long time. And, for me, rendering is not the laborious part, it's watching the cursor spin as the machine accepts my editing command. I used an AMD 4400+ dual with 2 gigs of memory and a 7600GT Nvidia card. The rendering was done at night while I slept (usually) and wasn't a problem, except when it would stop rendering and I would have to figure out which file was the problem. (Usually a Jpeg - often a "stitched" Jpeg.)
I sold this computer and after a trip to England this Fall I will buy the fastest I can afford. I'm not sure I want Vista from what I read. Although perhaps it's the upgraded computers that have a problem and not the ones that are "born" with Vista.

I also have an AMD 3800+ single and it is a little slower in editing than the 4400+ was, and a LOT slower in rendering. I would LOVE to find an editor/computer combo that would edit as fast as I am able. I won't use Ulead's videostudio 9 again. I like some of the editing features but it is buggy when rendering.
Next time Sony Vegas moviestudio 7; and if that works out I'll get the full version.

I might also try some others I've read about here. Liquid (I don't know the rest of the name - have to go back and look it up.) or an Adobe editor. I have read too much bad about Pinnacle to try it.

I've only worked with SD material so far. Next Fall I will get the HV20 (unless something better appears first), and I'll need to figure out how to make a disc that will be HD and make a disc from the same editing session that will play in a SD dvd player. Lots to learn.
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Old 04-19-2007, 08:40 PM
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Originally Posted by Cyrano View Post

Agreed! Last Fall I edited 20 hours of video from Europe down to an hour and 10. It took a very long time. And, for me, rendering is not the laborious part, it's watching the cursor spin as the machine accepts my editing command. I used an AMD 4400+ dual with 2 gigs of memory and a 7600GT Nvidia card. The rendering was done at night while I slept (usually) and wasn't a problem, except when it would stop rendering and I would have to figure out which file was the problem. (Usually a Jpeg - often a "stitched" Jpeg.)
I sold this computer and after a trip to England this Fall I will buy the fastest I can afford. I'm not sure I want Vista from what I read. Although perhaps it's the upgraded computers that have a problem and not the ones that are "born" with Vista.

I also have an AMD 3800+ single and it is a little slower in editing than the 4400+ was, and a LOT slower in rendering. I would LOVE to find an editor/computer combo that would edit as fast as I am able. I won't use Ulead's videostudio 9 again. I like some of the editing features but it is buggy when rendering.
Next time Sony Vegas moviestudio 7; and if that works out I'll get the full version.

I might also try some others I've read about here. Liquid (I don't know the rest of the name - have to go back and look it up.) or an Adobe editor. I have read too much bad about Pinnacle to try it.

I've only worked with SD material so far. Next Fall I will get the HV20 (unless something better appears first), and I'll need to figure out how to make a disc that will be HD and make a disc from the same editing session that will play in a SD dvd player. Lots to learn.

Cyrano. You will only save about 10% when editing in a PC/Windows world going with the fastest system money can buy. Windows is the main problem, then comes the software apps that do the work, then the hardware. 60% of the problem when working in a Windows XP/Vista 32 bit world is that MS will only allow a given program (Like Adobe Premier) to access a maximum 32 Mega Bytes of system memory. This means that your processor/s have to wait for the hard drive to feed them data, then they have to crunch the numbers. Some video editors/encoders are written better than others with better Algorithms. Apple is right now the very best but have lost allot of ground when they went to Intel Processors. Intel and AMD make great fast processors that can do a lot of things well. What they don't do well is encoding video. For the near term, that won't get much better. When Windows 64 bit editions become the norm and applications are written for 64 bit, Microsoft has said that when larger memory modules become available, they will allow applications to access and use 4 gig of system RAM for Encoding and other software programs tasks.

Hollywood uses LINUX for Video. They have custom made software programs to do very hardware intensive tasks like effects and encoding. Linux does not have a memory barrier like Windows does. In a 32 bit version, Linux allows the application to use all 4 gig of system memory or in a 64 bit version, limitless amounts of RAM (I think SUS is capped at 128 gig). When you are encoding from memory, it is 500 times faster and even a single core AMD Athelon 3800 will be very fast running Linux (although AMD capped its memory to 64 gig).

As of right now, I am waiting to upgrade to a 64 bit windows system. I don't have the money or time to learn how to use Linux. I too looked a the new Quad Core Intel processors and I can tell you, they are nice. Also just to let you know, writing a program to encode using two processors at the same time as of right now does not exist. Software engineers are really struggling to get there arms around Parallel computing! Typically, Windows will see a dual core but a software program will only be using one core at a time. The other will be idol or allow you to right to another program or surf the web!
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Old 04-19-2007, 08:57 PM
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Originally Posted by paintit77 View Post

Cyrano. You will only save about 10% when editing in a PC/Windows world going with the fastest system money can buy. Windows is the main problem, then comes the software apps that do the work, then the hardware. 60% of the problem when working in a Windows XP/Vista 32 bit world is that MS will only allow a given program (Like Adobe Premier) to access a maximum 32 bits of system memory. This means that your processor/s have to wait for the hard drive to feed them data, then they have to crunch the numbers. Some video editors/encoders are written better than others with better Algorithms. Apple is right now the very best but have lost allot of ground when they went to Intel Processors. Intel and AMD make great fast processors that can do a lot of things well. What they don't do well is encoding video. For the near term, that won't get much better. When Windows 64 bit editions become the norm and applications are written for 64 bit, Microsoft has said that when larger memory modules become available, they will allow applications to access and use 4 gig of system RAM for Encoding and other software programs tasks.

Hollywood uses LINUX for Video. They have custom made software programs to do very hardware intensive tasks like effects and encoding. Linux does not have a memory barrier like Windows does. In a 32 bit version, Linux allows the application to use all 4 gig of system memory or in a 64 bit version, limitless amounts of RAM (I think SUS is capped at 128 gig). When you are encoding from memory, it is 500 times faster and even a single core AMD Athelon 3800 will be very fast running Linux (although AMD capped its memory to 64 gig).

As of right now, I am waiting to upgrade to a 64 bit windows system. I don't have the money or time to learn how to use Linux. I too looked a the new Quad Core Intel processors and I can tell you, they are nice. Also just to let you know, writing a program to encode using two processors at the same time as of right now does not exist. Software engineers are really struggling to get there arms around Parallel computing! Typically, Windows will see a dual core but a software program will only be using one core at a time. The other will be idol or allow you to right to another program or surf the web!

What editing software is available (usable) on linux? Perhaps a different thread...just point me to it...I'm not intending to hijack.

Nate-o
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Old 04-19-2007, 09:29 PM
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Originally Posted by paintit77 View Post

Also just to let you know, writing a program to encode using two processors at the same time as of right now does not exist.

I could have sworn the Vegas 7 supports multiprocessors. I have a dualcore AMD right now and I know for a fact that the both CPUs hit 100% on the monitor when I'm rendering.

Vegas 8 (@NAB) supposedly is running on Windows 64 (Vista?).
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Old 04-19-2007, 10:51 PM
 
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Thanks miglo! That is good information.

Would I need to make my PC a dual boot? (Linux and windows)

Would Vegas 7 moviestudio (the cheaper suite) operate from Linux? Or would I need to get the full version? (will do if need be.)

I would really like to see the editing portion of the process speed up. I wouldn't
mind having a computer dedicated for that purpose only.

Can you give me any links or sites to further explore/understand Linux and video editing?

And should I consider Mac for video editing? Is the editing portion faster with Mac than Windows?

Thanks again!

EDIT: According to THIS article a big problem with Linux is the lack of Video editing software.
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Old 04-19-2007, 10:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by miglo View Post

I could have sworn the Vegas 7 supports multiprocessors. I have a dualcore AMD right now and I know for a fact that the both CPUs hit 100% on the monitor when I'm rendering.

Vegas 8 (@NAB) supposedly is running on Windows 64 (Vista?).

Miglo, hit control, alt, delete. Look at your task manager under performance tab, if you are indeed hitting 100% on both cores, then try loading a web page or play a movie and see what happens? You will lose either the ability to multitask or Vegas will continue on @ 100% using both cores. Yes, you are right, will will use both cores at the same time, but as one processor. Your Duel Core is processing one application at a time using both cores.
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Old 04-19-2007, 10:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hdtrout View Post

What editing software is available (usable) on linux? Perhaps a different thread...just point me to it...I'm not intending to hijack.

Nate-o


MOUNTAIN VIEW, Calif., Jan. 2 /PRNewswire/ -- SGI (NYSE: SGI) today
announced that Weta Digital evoked the power of more than 230 SGI(R) IRIX(R)
OS-based and SGI Linux(TM) OS-based visual workstations, storage products and
servers for production, postproduction and visual effects on the much
anticipated live-action, CGI-laden 'The Lord of the Rings' film trilogy. Weta
Limited shot all three films simultaneously with Weta Digital, its digital
effects arm, concurrently producing more than 1,200 visual effects shots. The
Wellington, New Zealand, company is using a full complement of IRIX OS-based
Silicon Graphics(R) Octane(R) and Silicon Graphics(R) Onyx2(R) visual
workstations, SGI(R) Origin(R) family servers, and SGI Linux OS-based visual
workstations and servers to create and manage up to 100TB of data. Released by
New Line Cinema, the first film, 'The Fellowship of the Ring,' premiered in
the U.S. on Dec. 19. The second film, 'The Two Towers,' is scheduled for a
December 2002 release, and the third, 'The Return of the King,' for
December 2003.

http://www.prnewswire.com/cgi-bin/st...1640544&EDATE=
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Old 04-19-2007, 11:00 PM
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Originally Posted by Cyrano View Post

Thanks miglo! That is good information.

Would I need to make my PC a dual boot? (Linux and windows)

Would Vegas 7 moviestudio (the cheaper suite) operate from Linux? Or would I need to get the full version? (will do if need be.)

I would really like to see the editing portion of the process speed up. I would mind having a computer dedicated for that purpose only.

Can you give me any links or sites to further explore/understand Linux and video editing?

And should I consider Mac for video editing? Is the editing portion faster with Mac than Windows?

Thanks again!

Here is what you are looking for!
http://www.sgi.com/products/software/linux/
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Old 04-19-2007, 11:05 PM
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Originally Posted by hdtrout View Post

What editing software is available (usable) on linux? Perhaps a different thread...just point me to it...I'm not intending to hijack.

Nate-o

Here are some!

http://lives.sourceforge.net/

http://lvempeg.sourceforge.net/

http://www.kinodv.org/

http://linux.softpedia.com/get/Multi...tor-4120.shtml
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Old 04-19-2007, 11:07 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by paintit77 View Post

Here is what you are looking for!
http://www.sgi.com/products/software/linux/

Thanks.
Is there Video Editing software in the link? I couldn't find it. Or is it a place to get Linux?

I do need Software that is similar to Vegas in its complexity and depth of effects.
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Old 04-19-2007, 11:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by miglo View Post

I could have sworn the Vegas 7 supports multiprocessors. I have a dualcore AMD right now and I know for a fact that the both CPUs hit 100% on the monitor when I'm rendering.

Vegas 8 (@NAB) supposedly is running on Windows 64 (Vista?).

Sony Creative Software Partners with AMD to Host Technology Preview of 64-Bit Version of Vegas NLE Software
Monday, April 16, 2007
LAS VEGAS, NV National Association of Broadcasters Conference (NAB), Sony Booth #SL2823 (South Hall 1) - April 16, 2007 - Sony Creative Software, a leading provider of video and audio editing software applications, in conjunction with AMD (NYSE: AMD), a leading global provider of innovative microprocessor and graphics solutions, demonstrated a 64-bit technology preview version of Vegas® editing software running on 64-bit Dual-Core AMD Opteron processor-based and AMD Quad FX computing platforms. The technology preview demonstrated a native 64-bit pre-release version of Vegas software running on AMD64 processor-based hardware and 64-bit Microsoft® Windows® Vista Ultimate operating system.


"HD content production workflows really push 32-bit computing platforms to the limit. Many performance barriers are removed when you combine the 64-bit Vista operating system, native 64-bit software and 64-bit hardware technologies from processor providers like AMD," stated Dave Hill, vice president of technology for Sony Creative Software. "A software-only solution like Vegas is perfectly positioned to take advantage of the increased memory and threading capabilities available in the 64-bit world. Technology such as the AMD64 computing platform will dramatically enhance our software's capability to more quickly and reliably help the user deliver every type of projectfrom simple corporate productions to the most demanding HD feature-length productions."


"AMD64 is the artist's computing platform, Vista Ultimate is the artist's operating system and Sony Vegas software is the most intuitive and artist-friendly NLE software available," said Charlie Boswell, director of Digital Media and Entertainment for AMD. "64-bit Vegas on Vista and AMD64 computing platforms promises to obliterate previous limitations and allow artists to create at the speed of thought."


Sony Creative Software plans to release a 64-bit version of Vegas software by the end of 2007.

http://www.sonycreativesoftware.com/...?ReleaseID=660
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Old 04-20-2007, 07:09 AM
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Thanks. Any experience with these? I had not heard of Lives and it supports hdv, so I'll give it a try. Lve seems a bit dated and I couldn't tell if kino supports hdv. Also, there's Cinellera: http://heroinewarrior.com/cinelerra.php3 but according the Ubuntu forums it's a huge resource hog (even relative to hdv editors).

Soooooo.....
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Old 04-20-2007, 10:46 AM
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Originally Posted by paintit77 View Post

Here is what you are looking for!
http://www.sgi.com/products/software/linux/

DON'T EVEN LOOK at SGI, they are a dying, if not dead company... trust me, I have worked with their equipment / software for years.

They were big back in the 90's when PC's couldn't do anything.

LOOK AWAY
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Old 04-20-2007, 11:59 AM
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I would suggest CENTOS 4. Not only is it free, but it is very stable. We use it on all our mission critical machines. You may have a few issues with newer hardware though, so I would search through the centos 4 forums to check if anyone has had issues with your current/future setup. At the very least, it is a free way to see if you would enjoy using linux(it's not for everyone).

http://www.centos.org/
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Old 04-20-2007, 12:46 PM
 
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At the very least, it is a free way to see if you would enjoy using linux(it's not for everyone).

http://www.centos.org/

What are the caveats?
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Old 04-20-2007, 03:18 PM
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What are the caveats?

A willingness to learn how to operate and navigate through the linux OS. If such commands as " cd, rm, ls, chmod " are foreign to you then I suggest picking up a book such as Linux for Dummies(mine comes in handy all the time). With that said, it really isn't that bad. Mac users may find the trasition to be a bit smoother since the newer macs are based on unix.

Also, I read above some discussion about making a dual booter. This might be a bad idea for editing video. AFAIK, you must create a seperate partition on the hard drive for the linux install. That means, you will only have access to as much HD memory as set for that partition. You will not have access to the files on the other partition; ie files used with the windows partition (someone correct me if I am wrong). RAM and CPU usage would not be an issue.
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Old 04-22-2007, 03:22 AM
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Originally Posted by pikappstrmchaser View Post

A willingness to learn how to operate and navigate through the linux OS. If such commands as " cd, rm, ls, chmod " are foreign to you then I suggest picking up a book such as Linux for Dummies(mine comes in handy all the time). With that said, it really isn't that bad. Mac users may find the trasition to be a bit smoother since the newer macs are based on unix.

Also, I read above some discussion about making a dual booter. This might be a bad idea for editing video. AFAIK, you must create a seperate partition on the hard drive for the linux install. That means, you will only have access to as much HD memory as set for that partition. You will not have access to the files on the other partition; ie files used with the windows partition (someone correct me if I am wrong). RAM and CPU usage would not be an issue.

If you set up a dual-boot windows/linux system, you can mount (i.e., "connect") a windows file system (partition) while in linux. Therefore you can access (read and write to) both the windows and linux partitions at once (while in linux). It will no longer be one contiguous file system as if you had only one OS running (i.e., the windows and linux file systems will appear as two separate "drives"), but you will have access to all of it nonetheless (you do have to remember that the new OS will obviously take up some of your HD space too). It appears you can also mount a linux file system while in windows: http://www.fs-driver.org/ (but I have no experience with this software).

Instead of creating a dual-boot windows/linux system, you might be able to run a linux virtual machine within windows. "VMware Workstation" might be an option (but it costs something like $189). However, VMware Workstation does not have access to your firewire ports (and I think it only supports USB 1.1, not 2.0); this shouldn't matter since you can always capture your video in windows and use linux video tools on it within the linux VM; this implies VMware Workstation does allow access to the native (windows) file system. I must admit, however, that I only have experience with VMware running windows in linux (reversed situation) so YMMV...

Chris
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Old 04-22-2007, 05:33 AM
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Adobe's new version of video production bundle, which is now labeled CS3, includes premiere and encore which will support blue ray and hd dvd. Coming out in the next two or three months. The upgrade path for the suite including after effects pro is $799.
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Old 04-22-2007, 05:36 AM
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I just captured canon hv 20 footage on premiere pro 2.0 and now have no where to go with it. The current encore does not seem to recognize HDV.
Plugging the camera directly into my Marantz S3 projector produced wonderful 110" pics. wow
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Old 04-23-2007, 12:43 PM
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I just purchased my HV20 and am beginning to mess around with the editing process. I have Nero Ultra Enhanced which saves the footage to the hard disk (saves it as an .mpg file). I haven't tried to make an actual hd dvd yet because I have preordered a tvix 4100 from digital connection and hope to simply stream all my camcorder footage. I know that when I play the hdv footage using nero showtime, it certainly doesn't look anywhere near as good as when I hook the camcorder up to the television via component or hdmi. Is this due to the fact that I have a vga connection, graphics card, cpu, ect. System components:

CPU: AMD FX 51
Graphics Card: ATI RAdion 9800 AGP
Memory: 2gb
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