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Camcorders > AVCHD Editing - options and experiences
slimoli's Avatar slimoli 09:39 PM 06-30-2009
Quote:
Originally Posted by jefflins View Post

Was there ever a way to get Arch 4.0/5 that would be activated with my Pro 8 license?

I upgraded from the BH version to the full (boxed) 8 pro and got the DVDA 5 . This option is no longer available and the best you can do is to pay for the 9 Pro upgrade (less than $200.00).

jefflins's Avatar jefflins 09:04 AM 07-01-2009
Thanks for the info Slimoli.
ccl28's Avatar ccl28 07:11 AM 07-02-2009
I started using vegas, then I switch to premiere because of all the crashes when working with HD. However, premiere can be awfully slow without some dedicated drives for editing. I wound up switching back to vegas, but this time I went to the pro edition. Works much better. Although, I commonly get a low on memory error when rendering. The best part is this happens when Vegas uses 1 gig of memory and I have 4 gigs total (2 free when it fails). This makes no sense as premiere had no problem using up to 2 gigs.
bigbarney's Avatar bigbarney 07:32 AM 07-02-2009
Quote:
Originally Posted by ccl28 View Post

Although, I commonly get a low on memory error when rendering. The best part is this happens when Vegas uses 1 gig of memory and I have 4 gigs total (2 free when it fails). This makes no sense as premiere had no problem using up to 2 gigs.

Vegas pro works much better on a 64bit platform with 6gig ram or better... but I suspect this is a bit of a bug that still needs to be worked out (Vegas9 is a new version just out). Try rebooting the machine before a render to clear the memory and see if that helps... also make sure you'r Dynamic preview ram isn't set too high (256M should be good)

But IMO.... Vegas is FAR better than PP. The interface is much faster....
bplewis24's Avatar bplewis24 09:57 AM 07-02-2009
Quote:
Originally Posted by ccl28 View Post

II wound up switching back to vegas, but this time I went to the pro edition. Works much better. Although, I commonly get a low on memory error when rendering.

Same here, until I upgraded to the 64-bit platform. See my other posts (and below).

Quote:
Originally Posted by bigbarney View Post

Vegas pro works much better on a 64bit platform with 6gig ram or better... but I suspect this is a bit of a bug that still needs to be worked out (Vegas9 is a new version just out).

No doubt about it. I was on XP 32 bit with Vegas Pro 9.0 and 3GB of RAM (6GB installed, 3 useable). I got a low memory error within the first 15 seconds of trying to render AVCHD every time. I installed Windows 7 64-bit and Vegas Pro 9.0 64-bit and it works nearly flawlessly now (I have a couple other small issues). Total RAM usage during rendering is often between 2 and 4GB.

For what it's worth, when I was on the 32-bit platform I tried to lower dynamic RAM preview and rendering threads, but nothing worked. Reboots, stopping other processes at startup, etc. Still failed every time.

Brandon
ccl28's Avatar ccl28 11:13 AM 07-02-2009
Quote:
Originally Posted by bigbarney View Post

Vegas pro works much better on a 64bit platform with 6gig ram or better... but I suspect this is a bit of a bug that still needs to be worked out (Vegas9 is a new version just out). Try rebooting the machine before a render to clear the memory and see if that helps... also make sure you'r Dynamic preview ram isn't set too high (256M should be good)

But IMO.... Vegas is FAR better than PP. The interface is much faster....

Oh yeah. There is no chance of rendering HD in 32-bit vegas if the preview is set higher than 0. I believe I am using the latest version, build 563. The usual process is to set preview to 0, save, reboot, and close every process possible (although I doubt this does anything since it fails with over 2 gigs available). Then I have a 33% success rate. I have to play with the output format (change the bit rate, etc) a few times and eventually it will work.

This is definitely a software limitation as it never happens in premiere, and I've done much more complex rendering in premiere. Premiere has no problem sucking up to 2 gigs of ram. Somebody could argue that vegas can't allocate a big enough chunk of contiguous memory, but based on what I witness watching the task manager the chucks seem too small for this to be an issue.

I only do a video once every 3-4 months (when I get a chance to do some SCUBA diving). Doesn't seem worth it to get a 64-bit machine and Vista just for that.
bigbarney's Avatar bigbarney 12:06 PM 07-02-2009
Quote:
Originally Posted by ccl28 View Post


This is definitely a software limitation as it never happens in premiere, and I've done much more complex rendering in premiere.

It doesn't happen in Vegas Pro 8 either... just the new version 9 so it's a simple bug. They'll most likely get it worked out on the next update.
bplewis24's Avatar bplewis24 05:35 PM 07-02-2009
Quote:
Originally Posted by ccl28 View Post

This is definitely a software limitation as it never happens in premiere, and I've done much more complex rendering in premiere. Premiere has no problem sucking up to 2 gigs of ram.

Same here. I used Premiere Pro to render a similar file on the same XP 32bit system and it went fine.

Brandon
sirdelsol's Avatar sirdelsol 09:05 AM 07-30-2009
So it doesn't look like this has been asked in the last 4 months or so - so here goes.

I want to buy a computer in the next week and my 3 year old laptop is pleanty good for surfing the internet and getting videos but can't do a lot of editing on AVCHD (can burn the disc however)

Budget is around $1500 - what would you get?

PC vs MAC? I think everyone agrees PC is the easiest now for AVCHD

Blueray burner? Seems that most agree DVD-R is just fine

Vid card? ATI > NVIDIA for video editing?

Ram: 8gb enough?
CPU = quad 2.66ghz should be enough?
the_Skywise's Avatar the_Skywise 09:22 AM 07-30-2009
Quote:
Originally Posted by bigbarney View Post

It doesn't happen in Vegas Pro 8 either... just the new version 9 so it's a simple bug. They'll most likely get it worked out on the next update.

Still happens in Vegas pro 9a.

The problem seems to be the FileIOSurrogate.exe, which gets run by Vegas during rendering just consumes memory during rendering and NEVER gives it back. (You can see this in the processes tab of the task manager) The program, from what I can glean off the 'net, is a type of handler to treat file access as 64bit on a 32bit system.

I'm running Windows XP SP2 with 3gb of ram and usually 2.3gb free when I start the render of a series of Canon HFS100 clips. AVCHD rendering runs out of memory every time. Which is ODD because the preview window explicitly states that recompression is NOT required so this should be just a simple concatenation of the raw files...

I switched to the MPG2 encoder and that seems to have worked fine though I'm concerned about the potential loss of quality.

Update - I found a link on the Sony website that talks about an unrelated issue with FileIOSurrogate and how to disable it. I did that, but still can't make an AVCHD as now the Sony Vegas Pro 9 uses up all the memory and never gives it back.
the_Skywise's Avatar the_Skywise 09:33 AM 07-30-2009
Quote:
Originally Posted by sirdelsol View Post

So it doesn't look like this has been asked in the last 4 months or so - so here goes.

I want to buy a computer in the next week and my 3 year old laptop is pleanty good for surfing the internet and getting videos but can't do a lot of editing on AVCHD (can burn the disc however)

Budget is around $1500 - what would you get?

PC vs MAC? I think everyone agrees PC is the easiest now for AVCHD

Blueray burner? Seems that most agree DVD-R is just fine

Vid card? ATI > NVIDIA for video editing?

Ram: 8gb enough?
CPU = quad 2.66ghz should be enough?

Speaking from a PC perspective:

Editing software doesn't take advantage of the hardware on vid cards so a $500 card isn't going to offer much more than a mid range $150/250 one. But don't go cheap, either. You still want a card with fast memory and lots of it.

Blu-ray burner. I'd go for it. It'll do DVD-R too and if you want to burn a hi-def disc, you'll be ready to go.

If you're just doing DVD rendering, I could do great editing on a 2.4 ghz dual core Intel with 4gb memory with about 1-2 hours to render. I've got a 3 ghz dual core Intel now on a NVidia 680i motherboard (4gb 800mhz DDR2) and hi-def editing using Vegas Pro 9 is good. (Not great, video preview is choppy but not horrid... but your taste may vary) Render times are about 4 hours or much more for a blu-ray depending on conversions/processing needed, etc.
ajamils's Avatar ajamils 10:07 AM 07-30-2009
I tried using Vegas Pro 9 last night and even though I consider myself to be quiet computer savvy, I had a hard time understanding how different options work.

So what's the general consensus about the best software for beginners that do not need a lot of bells and whistles ?
bplewis24's Avatar bplewis24 10:45 AM 07-30-2009
Quote:
Originally Posted by sirdelsol View Post

So it doesn't look like this has been asked in the last 4 months or so - so here goes.

I want to buy a computer in the next week and my 3 year old laptop is pleanty good for surfing the internet and getting videos but can't do a lot of editing on AVCHD (can burn the disc however)

Budget is around $1500 - what would you get?

PC vs MAC? I think everyone agrees PC is the easiest now for AVCHD

Blueray burner? Seems that most agree DVD-R is just fine

Vid card? ATI > NVIDIA for video editing?

Ram: 8gb enough?
CPU = quad 2.66ghz should be enough?

If you have $1,500, that is plenty enough to prioritize the most important factor when doing AVCHD rendering: the CPU. IMO there's no reason to get anything other than a Corei7, unless you're waiting for the lynnfields to drop later this year.

You can get a 9800GT from Nvidia for less than $100 these days, and it won't have any significant negative impact on AVCHD rendering that cards double the price will improve much upon. If you get a Corei7 then you'll be getting a 1366 Mobo and DDR3 RAM. Get 6GB for around $100 or even lower for the cheaper brands, the Mobo will probably be $120-200. You can get the LG Burner for under $200 on newegg.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ajamils View Post

So what's the general consensus about the best software for beginners that do not need a lot of bells and whistles ?

If Vegas Pro seems too intimidating for you I'd suggest Magix as an alternative. However, if you invest some time into Vegas Pro I think it's the best option out there for both functionality and ease of use for all user levels.

Brandon
the_Skywise's Avatar the_Skywise 11:36 AM 07-30-2009
Quote:
Originally Posted by ajamils View Post

I tried using Vegas Pro 9 last night and even though I consider myself to be quiet computer savvy, I had a hard time understanding how different options work.

So what's the general consensus about the best software for beginners that do not need a lot of bells and whistles ?

I'm a big fan of TMPGenc Authoring Works 4
ajamils's Avatar ajamils 11:54 AM 07-30-2009
Quote:
Originally Posted by the_Skywise View Post

I'm a big fan of TMPGenc Authoring Works 4

From the information on their website, it seems quiet good. I'll give it a try.
the_Skywise's Avatar the_Skywise 12:24 PM 07-30-2009
Quote:
Originally Posted by ajamils View Post

From the information on their website, it seems quiet good. I'll give it a try.

Do the trial version first. I've got an issue on my PC where it crashes doing a full render of content to blu-ray. (as opposed to a "smart render" that requires no transcoding). But it might be a specific problem with my hardware setup.

No problems with DVD authoring, however.
slimoli's Avatar slimoli 01:04 PM 07-30-2009
I suggest people who tried the Vegas pro to be a little more patient. The learning curve is a bit steeper than consumer editors but after years with Adobe Premiere Pro, VS11+ and others I can say the Vegas is by far the most complete and powerful editor. Even more important, the final output always look "professional" , no dropouts or any other glitches so common with the cheap editors.
IAM4UK's Avatar IAM4UK 01:12 PM 07-30-2009
Another vote for Vegas. I've used it since before it had the Sony label (it was Sonic Foundry), and think it is well-supported and capable. I use Pro 9a 64-bit.

I just have a 3.0 C2D CPU and 4GB DDR2, but intend to upgrade to Ci7 with 12GB DDR3 e're long.
ajamils's Avatar ajamils 01:31 PM 07-30-2009
Quote:
Originally Posted by the_Skywise View Post

Do the trial version first. I've got an issue on my PC where it crashes doing a full render of content to blu-ray. (as opposed to a "smart render" that requires no transcoding). But it might be a specific problem with my hardware setup.

No problems with DVD authoring, however.

who needs a trial when u have FRIENDS
bplewis24's Avatar bplewis24 01:36 PM 07-30-2009
Quote:
Originally Posted by slimoli View Post

I suggest people who tried the Vegas pro to be a little more patient.

Same here. 3 years ago I actually had Vegas 6.0 for DVD editing and found it too intimidating to use so I really only used it to import VOB files and re-render them to more usable formats for the web.

I was hesitant to try Vegas 9 because I never took the time to learn 6 and thought if I tried I still wouldn't get far with it. But I blocked off about an hour of my time one weekend to learn the functions and read some of the help manuals and realized it's a lot more intuitive (IMO) than CS4 while still offering a lot of functionality.

Brandon
oilblue's Avatar oilblue 01:44 PM 07-30-2009
Quote:
Originally Posted by the_Skywise View Post

Editing software doesn't take advantage of the hardware on vid cards so a $500 card isn't going to offer much more than a mid range $150/250 one. But don't go cheap, either. You still want a card with fast memory and lots of it.

Has anyone tried the Cyberlink options? For example, PowerDirector is supposed to take advantage of particular Nvidia and/or ATI cards. DVD Suite as well, though I don't know whether it does AVCHD.

Anyway, looking for feedback from anyone that's tried those. Thanks!
agcm's Avatar agcm 06:33 PM 07-30-2009
I tried Vegas 9 64 Bit trial edition with this configuration

Windows 7 64 bit
Phenom II x4 940 Black edition
8 Gb Ram
ATI 4770

And found it to be responsive, the only lagging was loading the AVCHD media not so much so in seeking and selecting.

That said I have no experience whatsoever with video editing so I have no clue what really pushes the limit of my system. I decided to learn Vegas 9 because it seems like the most recommended choice, however my real goal is authoring AVCHD DVD's and noticed I have to buy DVD architect Pro 5 as well. Can't I render multiple m2ts streams so that there can be chapter skipping? Until now I just render one file from Vegas.

In short if I just want to load m2ts streams from multiple SDHC cards into one DVD (I don't even care about the menus as I just change the file names/certification on the standard files the HF100 gives) should I skip Vegas 9? and just go for DVD architect Pro 5?
slimoli's Avatar slimoli 06:58 PM 07-30-2009
Chapter skipping is no problem either using Vegas Pro or DVDA 5 , you can create them. The real problem is that you probably want to use regular DVD media to create AVCHD disks and DVDA 5 can only do it using "burn Bluray disk" . If you burn a "bluray" disk on regular DVD media, it will not be recognized as a BD disk by the player although it has the BD structure. I can do it with Ulead VS11+ but not with DVDA. Sony wants you to use a real BD disk.

AVCHD disks created by DVDA on regular DVD can be read as a data disk by the PS3 but not on my Panasonic BD30.
Foxbat121's Avatar Foxbat121 07:52 PM 07-30-2009
Quote:
Originally Posted by oilblue View Post

Has anyone tried the Cyberlink options? For example, PowerDirector is supposed to take advantage of particular Nvidia and/or ATI cards. DVD Suite as well, though I don't know whether it does AVCHD.

Anyway, looking for feedback from anyone that's tried those. Thanks!

I have Power Director 7 and nVidia 260 GTX card. It worked out pretty well for me. The hardware accelation is pretty sweet although some say these GPU accelerated encoding quality is not as good as pure software solution. The encoding speed is at least twice as fast as my Xenon Quad can offer in software mode.

It does support AVCHD with fixed bitrate of about 14mbps. You can also download a trial version to try out yourself.
agcm's Avatar agcm 08:05 PM 07-30-2009
Thanks for the reply

Quote:


Chapter skipping is no problem either using Vegas Pro or DVDA 5 , you can create them. The real problem is that you probably want to use regular DVD media to create AVCHD disks and DVDA 5 can only do it using "burn Bluray disk" . If you burn a "bluray" disk on regular DVD media, it will not be recognized as a BD disk by the player although it has the BD structure. I can do it with Ulead VS11+ but not with DVDA. Sony wants you to use a real BD disk.

AVCHD disks created by DVDA on regular DVD can be read as a data disk by the PS3 but not on my Panasonic BD30.

Darn I guess this a problem, I do not even know if the PS3 can read BD-r AVCHD.

I guess that makes DVD Architect 5 pretty useless for me, is there any way you can create a playlist out of stream m2ts files? The camera does it automatically and I just use a script to change the file extensions, but going from simple m2ts to an AVCHD standard is far more complex, and I think I would need authoring software.

I will keep using Vegas 9 till it expires, Does anybody know of a good tutorial that simply deals with AVCHD: simple editing (moving, deleting, adding new m2ts), audio and authoring, I know it does not burn, but an ISO (or even just the folders and files) would be enough.

thanks
bplewis24's Avatar bplewis24 10:35 PM 07-30-2009
The PS3 can read pretty much anything. That includes AVCHD discs.

Brandon
slimoli's Avatar slimoli 11:09 PM 07-30-2009
For those who are brave enough, there is a way to create Bluray disks on rewgular DVD media but this is not for beginners :

http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/blu-ray-a...s-you-can.html
August1991's Avatar August1991 12:10 PM 07-31-2009
Quote:
Originally Posted by sirdelsol View Post

Blueray burner? Seems that most agree DVD-R is just fine

I'll let the others discuss speed/RAM but I would definitely get a Bluray burner.

I have been burning BR files to DVD-R discs for almost a year now and I am really irritated by the 4.7 GB limitation.

Quote:
Originally Posted by slimoli View Post

For those who are brave enough, there is a way to create Bluray disks on rewgular DVD media but this is not for beginners :

http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/blu-ray-a...s-you-can.html

On the contrary, this is very easy. But you are limited to 20 minute discs.
agcm's Avatar agcm 09:33 PM 08-09-2009
Quote:
Originally Posted by August1991 View Post

I'll let the others discuss speed/RAM but I would definitely get a Bluray burner.

I have been burning BR files to DVD-R discs for almost a year now and I am really irritated by the 4.7 GB limitation.

On the contrary, this is very easy. But you are limited to 20 minute discs.

Why not use a 2 layer DVDs? I get an hour at 17mbps.

I finally authored a DVD using DVDa But I made a mistake in that I did not create a playlist so it would finish the clip and return to the top menu. Hopefully the second time will be alright.

PS using the method above you need to make sure you select 0100 in he newest version of the AVCHD patcher.
datadump's Avatar datadump 09:27 PM 08-18-2009
when you render for AVC, theres no option for audio.. so how do get audio back in? what is the process to "separately" render audio and merge it back??
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