AVCHD Editing - options and experiences - Page 7 - AVS Forum
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post #181 of 908 Old 10-26-2008, 09:14 PM
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So avoid using h.264? http://www.videocopilot.net/blog/?p=197
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post #182 of 908 Old 10-27-2008, 10:55 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chevypower View Post

So avoid using h.264? http://www.videocopilot.net/blog/?p=197

more like avoid using quicktime if you are on a pc... stay away from it completely.

i don't know what it's like on a mac, but i would never use any of the qt encoders, the quality is not good... there are better mac alternatives for encoding.
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post #183 of 908 Old 10-27-2008, 11:00 AM
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I think that is a bit of a stretch. People with Digital Betacam equipment and the like, have been using QuickTime for years, probably more so Mac users, as that is more common platform in the industry. I did notice though, when i was playing with Sony Vegas Pro 8 on a PC, it did seem to prefer outputting an AVI (HD) file. I haven't outputted an HD AVI file from Final Cut Pro, but haven't needed to either.
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post #184 of 908 Old 10-27-2008, 12:50 PM
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I am having great results using Videostudio 11 plus on an AMD 5400+ dual core with my Canon HF100 AVCHD files. I have to use smart proxy which converts the files into lower resolution files for editing. Then, when I render the final version it is in HD. It takes very little time to render an AVCHD file with the smart render feature. I don't really notice any difference in time between smart rendering AVCHD (1920x1080), and when I used to render SD mpeg2 on the same computer. I also render sometimes to Windows Movie Player 720 format to post to Vimeo, and again it doesn't take a huge amount of time.

I then usually archive the completed file to an external Hard drive, and copy it to the camcorder if I ever want to show it on a friend/family's HDTV. That way I don't have to bother with burning to disc. However, I did try burning an HD-DVD to a regular DVD and it played perfectly in my XBOX 360 HD player.

HF100 Fiend
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post #185 of 908 Old 10-28-2008, 08:29 PM
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Have a MBP 2008 Model (not the new new ones) 4gb ram and dual core obv...

I have the HF11 and its a pain in the ass to import my AVCHD files.. It literally takes 3-5 minutes just for the camera to load the thumbnails from the log and transfer window...

Then from there 1.5x - 2.0x clip length to import into timeline....THEN rendering is a nightmare as well...

Is there any work around or should we wait for a patch (if there every is going to be one soon)

I have a fever and the only cure is more Blu-Ray....
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post #186 of 908 Old 10-28-2008, 08:48 PM
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Have you tried to import with iMovie(which is fewer steps than the log-and-transfer of Final Cut)? You could then share the iMovie project with Final Cut. I've read that FC uses a different codec which is technically superior, and maybe this is why it's more complicated.
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post #187 of 908 Old 10-30-2008, 06:52 PM
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I just received adobe production premium cs4 from newegg. It supposedly can edit avchd. I will test it out with my new canon hg21 and post the results later on. I am using Vista 32 bit on quad core 2.66 Ghz with 4 gig of ram. So it should be enough horsepower so to speak to run the software and do some video editing in high def.
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post #188 of 908 Old 10-31-2008, 05:58 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by elifino View Post

Have you tried to import with iMovie(which is fewer steps than the log-and-transfer of Final Cut)? You could then share the iMovie project with Final Cut. I've read that FC uses a different codec which is technically superior, and maybe this is why it's more complicated.

Yes I have, but I rather use the ProRes format rather than AIC....Well the thing is, the more clips that are on the card/Internal Flash the longer it takes FCP to load them in to the Log and Transfer window....

So I feel if I leave the card clean before shooting (dump all my video onto the external HD) It might save some time...But that scares me...

UPDATE: found this on a website...MAKES PERFECT SENSE!!!

Day 1: Ok. You get to your hotel end of Day 1. You're with the lady, so you don't want a lengthy log and transfer process to occur. Create a folder on your desktop called Day 1. Simply plug in camera, and the "CANON" disk mounts on your hard drive. Open it, and drag the 1st folder (it should say AVCHD) into a folder on a desktop. It may take 20-30 minutes to copy, no sweat. Tend to the lady. Afterwards, unmount drive, erase camera contents for next day's shoot, and charge that ghastly 1 hr battery (i bought 2x 2hr batteries from B&H).

Day 2: Repeat process. Camera contents dragged onto desktop folder "Day 2" no use for iMovie or FCP yet. Enjoy your vacation!

Day 3: Shoot, Dump, Go home. Tell lady you're going to make the best video ever!

Return to your sun-less lair. We're going to make "Disk Images" or dmg's of what we just shot. When these "disks" are mounted, FCP will "think" we have three HF10's mounted and allow us to view all three days simultaneously. We can log at will, not convert anything yet, and save our logging progress until next logging session!
Additional advantages: You can be shooting or charging the camera's battery while footage is safe & sound, ready to be logged and tranferred.

1) Open folder "Day 1." Get info on 1st AVCHD folder- note the SIZE of the data. Repeat for Day 2 & Day 3. We need to know the SIZE of the data. Let's pretend Day 1's size was 6.2 GB

2) Now, open up Disk Utility (applications > Utilities > Disk Utility).
Create a new disk image. When the dialogue pops up, offering you a 40 megabyte disk image, tell it you would like a "custom" size, and enter whatever Day 1's size was (6.2 GB, but actually, add about .1 GB for lame ghost data, please, so 6.3 GB). Also, name the disk image "Day 1." Depending on space, you may want to create the disk image on an external drive.

3) The disk image will take a few minutes to create itself. Once it is created, it will mount itself like a disk on your desktop. Now, open the "Day 1" folder on your desktop and it will reveal the AVCHD folder. Drag that onto your "Day 1" disk image (wait for copy). Launch FCP or iMovie, then the log & transfer to test. I had problems with getting the right AVCHD folder at the 1st level of the disk image. For the HF10, the folder hierarchy should follow: AVCHD > (then 3 folders) AVCHDTN, BDMV, and CANON. Sometimes there was an annoying AVCHD folder at the 1st level that had the real AVCHD folder I needed, so I just moved it around. It's not as hard as I probably just made it out to be. If it doesn't make sense, Read it twice, it's very easy I promise.

4) Repeat for Day 2, and Day 3. Remember: The folder hierarchy should go AVCHD > (3 Folders in here) AVCHDTN, BDMV, CANON. Drag Day 2's content into the Day 2 disk image, same for Day 3.

Now you should have 3 disk images (Day 1, Day 2, and Day 3).
When I launch FCP, then launch Log & Transfer, it recognizes all 3 disk images, and as a bonus, assigns the disk name to each clip's reel. So now if I log and transfer something from Day 1, it knows automatically it's from "Day 1."

You can now delete the footage off your desktop (but not the disk images you created!). If you unmount the disk images, just find the dmg you created earlier, double click, and mount right back up.

So in this vacation video of which we shot 3 days of material, we're going to be responsible and go through our Log & Transfer window and select and properly label ONLY the clips we want. Then we transfer. We just saved a lot of space by not transferring EVERYTHING! If we want to go back later and look for a shot we didn't think we need, mount up the disk images and return to find them. Keep the camera in the closet

Word of caution: Whether we have a camera hooked up or disk images, FCP crashes often when intensely viewing material in Log & Transfer. So after each clip we set in & out points for and label, SAVE ALL (or option/apple/s). If it crashes and comes back, It remembers our progress. I enjoy labeling, setting in and out points, and moving on, then mass transferring as I go to bed or leave for the market. Always creates a much more organized project this way too.

To me, this process made sense. I've done tape for years and enjoyed it. But I'm loving the hard drive process / experience. And creating these DMG's as ways to archive + log & transfer have really sealed the deal in terms of cost/convenience/time.

Hope this helps anyone out there with these cameras. The AVCHD format is new and wacky, but joyous! Good Luck!!!

I have a fever and the only cure is more Blu-Ray....
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post #189 of 908 Old 10-31-2008, 08:59 AM
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How does PreRes 422 benefit AVCHD, when AVCHD is 4:2:0? The only Sony formats to do 4:2:2 sampling, are:
HD formats: XDCAM HD422, HDCAM (non-SR)
SD formats: Betacam SX, Betacam IMX, Digital Betacam
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post #190 of 908 Old 10-31-2008, 10:10 AM
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I recently purchased a Canon HF10, and am looking at various editing tools. From what I can tell, Nero and Ulead seem to be the best bets...

I have for about a year now been a Linux convert, but as these tools are Windows, I am fearful I might have to downgrade to Windows.
I am, or was planning, on upgrading to the new Ubuntu 8.10 64 bit, but I guess I could go with Windows XP 64 if necessary as a dual boot or something so I could run these for video editing...
My rig is currently a AMD 64X2 3800+ w/soon to be 4Gb and a 8600GT card.

Is there a Linux tool people are using that is comparable to Nero and Ulead?

Thx!
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post #191 of 908 Old 10-31-2008, 12:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chevypower View Post

How does PreRes 422 benefit AVCHD, when AVCHD is 4:2:0? The only Sony formats to do 4:2:2 sampling, are:
HD formats: XDCAM HD422, HDCAM (non-SR)
SD formats: Betacam SX, Betacam IMX, Digital Betacam

prores422 could indeed be overkill, but the only other popular choice is the apple intermediate codec, which tim siglin called "bloated", lol, in the current issue of streaming media magazine.

the problem with quicktime on a pc is when the qt gamma shift happens during the edit process... it's very well documented, just google it up... i think that if you keep qt on a mac, it shouldn't be an issue, just be careful about changing container types, if it involves re-encoding from one container to another.

i have a software utility that i used to use that changed the file from an avi to a .mov, no problem with gamma shifting, but it didn't re-encode the video itself, it just changed the container type.

in that situation, qt saved my bacon, there was no avi utility that allowed me to pull 4 tracks of audio out of an avi file, and the editors i was using couldn't access it.
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post #192 of 908 Old 11-05-2008, 09:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HDinterest View Post

I just received adobe production premium cs4 from newegg. It supposedly can edit avchd. I will test it out with my new canon hg21 and post the results later on. I am using Vista 32 bit on quad core 2.66 Ghz with 4 gig of ram. So it should be enough horsepower so to speak to run the software and do some video editing in high def.

I've played around with Sony Vegas and just recently Adobe Premiere Pro CS4 and it seems a whole lot more cumbersome than Vegas Pro. Anyone else having the same experience? For example, browsing AVCHD files requires several clicks (a double click and a single click on a tiny icon) to preview the videos. On top of that, there doesnt seem to be any place where I can see the filesize of an asset. Wierd, considering there are hundreds of metadata fields and they are mostly arcane. Clearly this tool is designed for pros, and I am a newbie, so I can't be more helpful yet.
I'm considering sticking with Vegas at the moment.
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post #193 of 908 Old 11-06-2008, 05:07 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by steev View Post

I've played around with Sony Vegas and just recently Adobe Premiere Pro CS4 and it seems a whole lot more cumbersome than Vegas Pro. Anyone else having the same experience? For example, browsing AVCHD files requires several clicks (a double click and a single click on a tiny icon) to preview the videos. On top of that, there doesnt seem to be any place where I can see the filesize of an asset. Wierd, considering there are hundreds of metadata fields and they are mostly arcane. Clearly this tool is designed for pros, and I am a newbie, so I can't be more helpful yet.
I'm considering sticking with Vegas at the moment.

I too tried Premiere Pro CS4 and found it did not run well at all on my Vista64 C2D 3.0GHz rig w/8MB ram. By contrast the trial version of Video Studio 12 (Pro X2) runs much better, is much more user friendly and has all the capability I need. It initially appears simple but has a surprising depth of capabilities once you get into it - think I'll be sticking with it.
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post #194 of 908 Old 11-06-2008, 05:57 AM
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I am very pleased with videostudio pro x2 on my mediocre computer. I used to use Vegas Pro with standard def files, but I don't want to re-render with AVCHD. So, videostudio is the best, in my opinion, for AVCHD until the big boys catch up to the technology.

HF100 Fiend
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post #195 of 908 Old 11-06-2008, 11:45 AM
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I'll throw my 2 cents and say Premiere CS4 is absolutely terrific for AVCHD editing provided you're comfortable with the application. No appreciable slow downs on a nice beefy quadcore system either. I've used it for years though it didn't support AVCHD until CS4, so I was hunting for other options a few months ago and didn't find anything aside from what felt like overly consumer offerings.

The main beauty of Premiere CS4 is how nicely it ties into all the other Adobe offerings like Photoshop and Aftereffects.

YMMV of course.

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post #196 of 908 Old 11-06-2008, 03:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by datter View Post

The main beauty of Premiere CS4 is how nicely it ties into all the other Adobe offerings like Photoshop and Aftereffects.

YMMV of course.

Yes now you know why people love Macs...everything ties into each other so nicely....especially FCP

I have a fever and the only cure is more Blu-Ray....
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post #197 of 908 Old 11-06-2008, 08:10 PM
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Help a newbie...please! I'm trying to figure the workflow to export an edited HD project (imovie) back to the HF100 memory card using my Intel based 2.4ghz macbook with 4gb of RAM. I have searched the forums and cannot find an actual workflow for how to do this. I'm a seasoned DV editing hobbiest so I know enough to be dangerous, at least I thought I did.

Why? So I can take an HD movie I made of say the kids to anyones house with an HD TV and show off the goods straight from the HF100 without them needing a Blu-Ray or Playstation.

Canon says it can't be done, easily...
Apple doesn't know what the heck I'm talking about...
AVS Forums elude to it's no big deal

I missing something obvious, seems simple, or is it?
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post #198 of 908 Old 11-06-2008, 08:22 PM
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I used Video Studio on my HP notebook with mini DV, worked great, my projects were mostly sports related with some family stuff. I got a intel based macbook to improve render time etc. after a bit of head scratching with imovie HD I have it down. Enter the Canon HF100 and AVCHD... well let's say importing isn't an issue, editing no problem, I am working on the sharing portion as we speak. Exporting to SD DVD no problem, looks ok, better than the mini DVs did, but how to share in HD is the question...
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post #199 of 908 Old 11-07-2008, 06:00 AM
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[quote=bigblokk;15021444]Help a newbie...please! I'm trying to figure the workflow to export an edited HD project (imovie) back to the HF100 memory card using my Intel based 2.4ghz macbook with 4gb of RAM. [quote]

For Videostudio, you would render the project as 1920 AVCHD (can imovie do this?). Then, you would have to record a clip (or use an old clip) on the HF100 that is the same length or greater (timewise) as your project. 10 minute project would require a 10+ minute clip on the HF100. Open up the flash card in your computer for the HF100, and go into the "Stream" folder. Make a note of the file name of the clip you have recorded using the HF100. Rename your project clip to the exact same name and file extension as the clip on the flash card, then replace the clip on the flash card with your project file. You are now able to play your project video using the HF100. If imovie can create an AVCHD file, I assume you can follow this procedure with it.

HF100 Fiend
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post #200 of 908 Old 11-07-2008, 04:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NJ3118 View Post

Yes now you know why people love Macs...everything ties into each other so nicely....especially FCP

I've tried FCP, and Mac in general but neither ever really clicked for me. I've always described software preference as needing to find an app that "thinks like I do". FCP doesn't, Mac's don't... but with various Adobe apps and Windows, I'm good. Maybe that says I'm a sloppy thinker but at least I get stuff done. :P

That's the main thing of course, find an app/system that thinks like you and that fits into how you work, instead of using something you personally need to adapt to.

Very subjective stuff.

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post #201 of 908 Old 11-09-2008, 07:41 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bigblokk View Post

Help a newbie...please! I'm trying to figure the workflow to export an edited HD project (imovie) back to the HF100 memory card using my Intel based 2.4ghz macbook with 4gb of RAM. I have searched the forums and cannot find an actual workflow for how to do this. I'm a seasoned DV editing hobbiest so I know enough to be dangerous, at least I thought I did.

Why? So I can take an HD movie I made of say the kids to anyones house with an HD TV and show off the goods straight from the HF100 without them needing a Blu-Ray or Playstation.

Canon says it can't be done, easily...
Apple doesn't know what the heck I'm talking about...
AVS Forums elude to it's no big deal

I missing something obvious, seems simple, or is it?

I just read that Nero is able to write edited videos back to the HF100:
http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/avchd-for...-back-mts.html

HF100 Fiend
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post #202 of 908 Old 11-09-2008, 12:18 PM
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Hmmm -- I am using a quad core system with scads of ram and a good video card on 64 bit vista and CS4 of premiere is NOT handling avchd well at all. Choppy -- lots of artifacts. I'm not the only one, as I have seen a ton of reports around the net. Not sure why it's not being decoded well, but so far, I'm very disappointed. I got CS4 for that feature alone.
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post #203 of 908 Old 11-10-2008, 06:51 AM
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I have previously said that I am having no trouble with Videostudio. However, I am now noticing that this program tends to create stutters between cuts in the video. I have researched this issue in other forums and it seems to be a common problem, so I think it's a bug with the software. I am going to switch back to Pixela for now.

HF100 Fiend
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post #204 of 908 Old 11-11-2008, 06:33 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter123456 View Post

I have previously said that I am having no trouble with Videostudio. However, I am now noticing that this program tends to create stutters between cuts in the video. I have researched this issue in other forums and it seems to be a common problem, so I think it's a bug with the software. I am going to switch back to Pixela for now.

That's odd, I have not experienced this phenomenon on my Vista64 rig. What's your system specs?
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post #205 of 908 Old 11-11-2008, 06:42 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gris View Post

That's odd, I have not experienced this phenomenon on my Vista64 rig. What's your system specs?

I am on an AMD dual core 5400+ with 2 gigs of ram using the HF100. When I produce a similar video with Pixela, there are no stutters during the cuts.

I am also noticing that the AVCHD videos I produces with VS 11.5 have few if any stutters, whereas those produced (with much faster render times) with VS X2 seem to have a lot of stutters. Perhaps the additional speed of VSX2 is causing the problem - not as high a quality render? Maybe if I turn off smart render I wouldn't get the problems? However, I was always using smart render (and smart proxy) with VS 11.5 without a hitch.

Check out these links for others who seem to have the problem:

http://phpbb.ulead.com.tw/EN/viewtop...b3efddf2438ffd

http://phpbb.ulead.com.tw/EN/viewtop...=167014#167014

HF100 Fiend
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post #206 of 908 Old 11-11-2008, 07:35 AM
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I have never used a hd camcorder, so here goes my dumb question, is there any way to make a disc with footage shot that works on a regular dvd player, or are you forced to use a bluray player of some sort? I know nothing about this format but I am trying to learn.
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post #207 of 908 Old 11-11-2008, 03:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by onebxr View Post

I have never used a hd camcorder, so here goes my dumb question, is there any way to make a disc with footage shot that works on a regular dvd player, or are you forced to use a bluray player of some sort? I know nothing about this format but I am trying to learn.
-Rich

You can down-convert the video to standard DVD using most of the software that processes AVCHD video. I have a Sony SR11 and the software that came with the camcorder supports this. I also use Pinnacle Studio 12 to create standard DVDs from the SR11 source video.
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post #208 of 908 Old 11-13-2008, 06:12 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter123456 View Post

I am also noticing that the AVCHD videos I produces with VS 11.5 have few if any stutters, whereas those produced (with much faster render times) with VS X2 seem to have a lot of stutters. Perhaps the additional speed of VSX2 is causing the problem - not as high a quality render? Maybe if I turn off smart render I wouldn't get the problems? However, I was always using smart render (and smart proxy) with VS 11.5 without a hitch.

Check out these links for others who seem to have the problem:

http://phpbb.ulead.com.tw/EN/viewtop...b3efddf2438ffd

http://phpbb.ulead.com.tw/EN/viewtop...=167014#167014


I took a look at all the HF100 AVCHD videos I edited with VS11.5, and I do not see the stutter problem during cuts that I see with VSX2. I may have to stick with 11.5 unless VS creates a patch or a VSX3 that fixes the stutters.

For anyone looking at VSX2 you may want to go with VS11.5. It's cheaper anyway. (Terminology: VS11.5 = VS11+ = Videostudio 11 Plus; VSX2 = Videostudio X2 Pro).

HF100 Fiend
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post #209 of 908 Old 11-14-2008, 05:30 AM
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I am on an AMD dual core 5400+ with 2 gigs of ram using the HF100. When I produce a similar video with Pixela, there are no stutters during the cuts.

I am also noticing that the AVCHD videos I produces with VS 11.5 have few if any stutters, whereas those produced (with much faster render times) with VS X2 seem to have a lot of stutters. Perhaps the additional speed of VSX2 is causing the problem - not as high a quality render? Maybe if I turn off smart render I wouldn't get the problems? However, I was always using smart render (and smart proxy) with VS 11.5 without a hitch.

Check out these links for others who seem to have the problem:

http://phpbb.ulead.com.tw/EN/viewtop...b3efddf2438ffd

http://phpbb.ulead.com.tw/EN/viewtop...=167014#167014

Thanks, that's interesting but I don't think VSX2 is the cause of the problem, at least not on all setups as I haven't been able to find any stutters at all on some very heavily edited footage using VSX2 (VS12), HF100, and a decent C2D 3.0Ghz Vista64 rig. (I also have 8GB of ram but don't know how much of that is used during processing).
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post #210 of 908 Old 11-14-2008, 06:48 AM
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Thanks, that's interesting but I don't think VSX2 is the cause of the problem, at least not on all setups as I haven't been able to find any stutters at all on some very heavily edited footage using VSX2 (VS12), HF100, and a decent C2D 3.0Ghz Vista64 rig. (I also have 8GB of ram but don't know how much of that is used during processing).

Gris, do you use smart render? Are you using an HF100 and outputing 1920x1080 AVCHD?

I found that the stutters disappear when I turn off smart render, but the quality is worse and the render time is longer.

If my systme is to blame, why does Pixela work without any stutters? The fact that Pixela works leads me to beleive that it's a problem with VSX2. However, maybe this is just a problem with Canon HF100 AVCHD. I think the file formats are slightly different among the camcorders.

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