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post #271 of 1186 Old 08-31-2010, 02:53 PM
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No, I was afraid of that. I googled the part, and no luck elsewhere either.

The distributor will have access - the person selling you the RA2 devices.

PM me tomorrow if no luck, and I'll email the pdf to you. No time in the next 5 hours, sorry.

Believe nothing, no matter where you read it, or who said it, no matter if I have said it, unless it agrees with your own reason and your own common sense. -Buddha

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post #272 of 1186 Old 09-01-2010, 12:38 PM
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@Dan G., I sent you info on the RRD-F6AN & ballasts in a PM. Please let me know if you have any questions....

Paul W.
'Lutron Grafik Eye & Radio Ra Specialist - or anything Lutron'
Hanks Electrical Supply

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post #273 of 1186 Old 09-01-2010, 12:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dan G. View Post

Dimmer: RRD-10ND
Interface: PHPM-3F-DV-WH (2 gang, installed out of the way somewhere)
Ballast: Did not know part number

This sounds like the work-around they usually give when there is no available wallbox dimmer solution.

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Originally Posted by Dan G. View Post

He did not specifically mention or know about the new RRD-F6AN-DV dimmer which is why I mention he wasn't convincing with his solution.

Typical right now because these dimmers are still in production and there may not be company wide knowledge of the dimmer yet. I had a similar issue with the "hybrid" dimmer (RRD-H6BRL). No one could get me a straight answer about pricing and availibility until moments before the official launch of the product.

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Originally Posted by Dan G. View Post

I am not opposed to swapping out the ballasts. My preference is to do that, if I have to, before sheetrock goes up. It would be better to be able to accomplish this without replacing the ballasts but I am not sure if that's possible.

I've sent you a PM with the ballast pricing. I've never sold Lutron online before so I don't know what the pricing is online. Thats my standard cost for my contractors. Please do check with your inspector beforehand. Some inspectors are picky and won't let this fly. The jobs I did the inspectors and electricians were OK with swapping the ballasts.

Please also know that you need to run new wiring up there. Need a 3-wire up there so 14-3 or 12-3. 3-wire dimming uses a Hot, Neutral and a dimmed Hot.


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post #274 of 1186 Old 09-08-2010, 06:55 PM
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I am seriously considering a RA2 automation system for my modest house (3 rooms to start with) - however I have hit a road block in my design...

My main living room has a fan/light combo - what are you guys doing to control fans? My fan has a wall mounted wireless controller. Uhg. Actually, I don't really give a rats as# about automated control of the fan, but light control is a deal breaker...

Any idea if Lutron is releasing a RA2 fan controller?

Here is the fan:

Minka F679-CH Ceiling Fan
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post #275 of 1186 Old 09-08-2010, 08:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MrWindupBird View Post

Any idea if Lutron is releasing a RA2 fan controller?

I asked this question to the tech support people and reportedly there is something similar to the Maestro Fan Control in the works, but no ideas as to when it might be available (don't hold your breath). In the mean time, for two of our fans we are able to get into the attic above them, and the power feed is from the attic. For the moment, the lights have a standard dimmer mounted in a box in the attic controlling them (and the power is run separately to the switch on the wall that controls the fan itself). You can't control the fan light dimmer directly, but we have 3 other keypads controlling them. From what I understand the new 3 wire dimmer can control motor loads but I don't have any real need for it. I still have two other ceiling fans that I'd like to control but no current solution.
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post #276 of 1186 Old 09-08-2010, 10:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by scientest View Post

I asked this question to the tech support people and reportedly there is something similar to the Maestro Fan Control in the works, but no ideas as to when it might be available (don't hold your breath). In the mean time, for two of our fans we are able to get into the attic above them, and the power feed is from the attic. For the moment, the lights have a standard dimmer mounted in a box in the attic controlling them (and the power is run separately to the switch on the wall that controls the fan itself). You can't control the fan light dimmer directly, but we have 3 other keypads controlling them. From what I understand the new 3 wire dimmer can control motor loads but I don't have any real need for it. I still have two other ceiling fans that I'd like to control but no current solution.

Actually, I might be able to do the same thing - put a dimmer in the attic above the fan... Great idea! That just seems kinda janky in relation to everything else Lutron...

Why are automated shades more important that fans? Seriously... Don't all modern homes include fans or is this just a southern thing?
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post #277 of 1186 Old 09-08-2010, 11:55 PM
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Pricing help...

My dealer quoted me a $4k install with straight-up MSRP pricing for all components. Is this normal for RadioRA2? Installation fee was around $500 - which I feel is quite reasonable.

Is this stuff too new for any discounting at all? Obviously I can get cheaper online, but I feel there is an advantage to creating a relationship with a local dealer - its just that I wasn't really expecting straight-up MSRP for everything.
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post #278 of 1186 Old 09-09-2010, 07:50 AM
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The fan controller is speculation, and I wouldn't hold my breath. But I have heard the same thing. They are coming out with new product more so than ever, but for now we still have the remote mounted dimmer and switch.

@MrWindupBird... You have a good point on establishing a relationship with your installer, but if he is not willing to discount I would get another quote. I would expect some markup by your installer for his time to plan, order, pick-up & deliver, and in some cases finance your material. However, I don't think it would be un-heard of to request to purchase your own materials. PM me if you would like me to quote materials, or give your installer my email (paul@hankselectric.net), perhaps his supply house isn't giving him any deals.

Paul W.
'Lutron Grafik Eye & Radio Ra Specialist - or anything Lutron'
Hanks Electrical Supply

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post #279 of 1186 Old 09-09-2010, 11:36 AM
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Sure, MrWindupBird, he'll give you a discount on parts.

But, he'll charge you $800 more on installation.

The guy has to make enough money to feed his kids, one way or the other.

I wish more pro installers would charge wholesale for parts, and stick it to me on the install. Clearly, I want to pay for a good install, and not a markup on materials. It's psychological, but I can't be the only one who feels this way.

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post #280 of 1186 Old 09-09-2010, 02:44 PM
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@MrWindupBird Try to look for a EVAD, Lutron's terms electrical value-added distributor. They get better pricing than standard stocking distributors and usually have a couple people in-house that are certified with the software and should be savvy with the RA2 stuff.

I know because we are an EVAD and I'm the RA2 savvy guy of the house


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post #281 of 1186 Old 09-09-2010, 04:32 PM
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Thanks for all the replies... I think I am with @Neurorad on this - in that he has quoted a fairly low install fee and is making up for it with MSRP pricing.

This is probably a fairly small installation for him (about 12 dimmers/switches, 1 repeater, 2 keypads) - so doesn't really fit in the quantity discount category.

How do you guys handle the whole Essentials Software situation? I am not against taking the training but I don't really want to wait around for 6 months for it to come around my area - what I really want to avoid is doing the entire install and then having one or two lights that need adjusting - and then having to go through all the trouble of scheduling an appointment for them to drive all the way out to my house just to make a few minor adjustments.

I plan on doing some custom integration with an iPad - and one the main reasons I have started down the RA2 path is the openness and simplicity of its integration protocol.
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post #282 of 1186 Old 09-10-2010, 06:24 AM
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A 500 dollar install fee for your system as described is quite low.
We charge 1.5 hours per device for Ra2, which includes consultation, design, install, and programming. This would work out to about $1700 for your system.

Be careful he knows what he is getting into, because there is some hidden labor in first month call backs, and getting all the engraving in order.
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post #283 of 1186 Old 09-10-2010, 08:17 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BradKas View Post

A 500 dollar install fee for your system as described is quite low.
We charge 1.5 hours per device for Ra2, which includes consultation, design, install, and programming. This would work out to about $1700 for your system.

Be careful he knows what he is getting into, because there is some hidden labor in first month call backs, and getting all the engraving in order.

You are right on the engraving and first month reprogram call backs. I do not do engravings for 2 to 3 months after the install because once done it's set (unless the client wants to pay for new engravings if the reprogram changes the buttons)

Reprogram is quite the pain right now because you have to return to the site to do it. I've been pestering Lutron about being able to do it remotely. You have to initialize the devices the first time but there should be no reason to have to return to the site to do a reprogram.

St Louis, MO - Lutron certified

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post #284 of 1186 Old 09-10-2010, 07:58 PM
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Yeah, Lutron will just say a return to site is an opportunity to sell more Ra2 gear, haha.

Sort of misses the point.
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post #285 of 1186 Old 10-26-2010, 07:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bayshoresupply View Post

@MrWindupBird Try to look for a EVAD, Lutron's terms electrical value-added distributor. They get better pricing than standard stocking distributors and usually have a couple people in-house that are certified with the software and should be savvy with the RA2 stuff.

I know because we are an EVAD and I'm the RA2 savvy guy of the house

how does one go about locating an EVAD?
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post #286 of 1186 Old 10-27-2010, 10:38 AM
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^ Good point. I played around with Lutron's dealer locator and it doesn't give that as an option.

Looks like Lutron tricked me as they said that they would distinguish EVADs out for design help etc etc.


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post #287 of 1186 Old 10-27-2010, 11:16 AM
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Call Lutron Tech Support to find out if they distinguish EVADs from regular distributors, and to find a local EVAD.

This seems like a good place to mention my RA2 install. Electrician wired in RA2 switch and dimmer for me yesterday, after wiring in 6 new fixtures.

When he finished, I had to pull the switch and break off the fins; dimmer had no fins.

I picked a Lutron screwless double gang switch plate from HD - $7. For a switchplate?!

Best switchplate I've ever installed, worth the $7. Designed with holes for easy tightening of the switch screws, must be patented. Outstanding product.

I was a little disappointed with the new fluorescent dimmer - dims to about 20%, I guess that's standard for dimmable fluorescents.

Lutron dimmable ballasts are PRICEY, but I'm pleased with the T5HO linear fluorescents.

Now where to place the accessory repeater...

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post #288 of 1186 Old 10-27-2010, 11:40 AM
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Not to clutter up this thread with off topic posts.... but those face plates are only like $3 from most wholesale dist. One thing that most diy-ers don't know about electrical is that most wholesale electrical houses don't require a contractor's license for a cash acct. And you will still get great pricing.
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post #289 of 1186 Old 10-27-2010, 11:51 AM
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I wish it was that easy.

I went to a local electric supply store first (a Border States shop) - 'Lutron, screwless, double gang, white - sorry, not in stock'

It's where I'm buying my RA2 devices.

They sure have a great selection of finger channel, and the guys at the counter are super friendly, but for a lot of stuff they're terrible.

I bought an electrical panel from them last Thurs, to be used as a subpanel in the wiring closet. Square D QO, panel + cover - $300. Bought a Square D QO panel, same specs (but a few breakers included) from Home Depot the next day for $150. Returned the panel to the electrical distributor yesterday for a refund - and tried to buy the screwless wallplate.

Edit - same prices for everyone at that distributor, electrician confirmed they were overpriced

Believe nothing, no matter where you read it, or who said it, no matter if I have said it, unless it agrees with your own reason and your own common sense. -Buddha

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post #290 of 1186 Old 10-29-2010, 12:53 PM
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Lutron ballasts are quite pricey but sometimes you can find an Advance ballasts for a couple dollars less and they work on the same dimming. But the Advance's don't hit that 1% level that some of the Lutron's can..


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post #291 of 1186 Old 10-30-2010, 02:30 PM
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I am an EVAD if you have yet to find one...

Also, to the point of dimming fluorescent, definitely go with Lutron. For most lamp types the same quality(%) of dimming is near the same price. Also pre-wire in 12/3 or 14/3. If you are stuck with 2-wire, Some of Lutrons newer "Tu-Wire" Ballasts are getting down to 5%.

This is a good time to point out Dimming percentage vs. perceived light level. Where the actual dimming is more linear your perception of the dimmed light level is more parabolic. In other words you will perceive most of the dimming starting around 40 or 50% and notice the lower levels are actually less than 20%. Cheaper fluorescent dimming ballasts and most screw in dimmable fluorescents dim down to 20-25% But most of us will perceive this as about 50%. So getting to that 5% or 1% is a huge deal, specifically in a theater.

One more tidbit to the point of dimming fluorescent, burn in your lamps at 100% for the first 100hrs, preferably continuous. This will enhance your lamps performance, and lamp life. It's also recommended by Lutron and most lamp manufacturers. It also helps for non-dimming fluorescent.

Lastly if you are ordering dimmable fluorescent fixtures you can usually specify Lutron ballasts from most reputable fixture/can manufacturers, but you will usually find ordering a standard fluorescent and Lutron ballast separately will get you the product faster and usually for the same $$. Caution though some cheaper 'linear ' fixtures may ship with the wrong type of sockets(shunted - you want non-shunted) and some recessed cans may need to be modified to simply mount the ballasts(this is usually means drilling some new mounting screw holes, but can be more involved, explore the different 'case' size/type options from Lutron).

Paul W.
'Lutron Grafik Eye & Radio Ra Specialist - or anything Lutron'
Hanks Electrical Supply

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post #292 of 1186 Old 10-30-2010, 06:21 PM
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yeah, herdfan, bought it at HD

I went with the Lutron Eco10 ballast, saved a few dollars, but limited dimming. Ordered the fixtures with the ballasts, Lutron spec'd for 2 of them. The other 2 were standard ballasts. The fixtures with the Lutron ballasts actually shipped first.

The RA2 dimmers will be easy to swap for most of my switches, but I have some tricky 3-ways that I may need the electrician for. Luckily, found a good local company that has a guy who does many RA and HW installs. He was on site for a bit to explain to the electricians who did my install how to wire the 14/3 to the dimmers. Maybe I'll save some money and use the Pico in-walls for the tougher remote dimmers.

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post #293 of 1186 Old 10-31-2010, 02:35 PM
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Just out of curiosity, what kind of tricky 3 ways do you have. The Lutron dimmers make wiring multi-ways so simple. Much easier than standard multi-way circuits.

Please do not send me PM's asking for software! You will not get it.
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post #294 of 1186 Old 11-01-2010, 07:57 AM
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From what I recall of the install instructions, the primary dimmer had to be the first dimmer on the circuit with accessory dimmers wired down the line. I guess I could figure out the hot coming into the first, shouldn't be too hard with a meter, or even an inductance tester. One of my 3 ways works intermittently, for some reason - need to map the circuit.

I'll worry about it when it's time to install. I want to avoid Pico dimmers when I can - not a fan of changing batteries.

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post #295 of 1186 Old 11-01-2010, 03:23 PM
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That was the case with RadioRA. HW dimmers do not have this limitation and I am not sure about RA2 dimmers. All the instruction sheet says is Neutral wire dimmers/switches must be on the load end. That would be the last in line. There is not reference to where non-neutral wire devices must be.

It was very handy with HW dimmers and being able to place them anywhere in the chain as it allowed placing them in locations where derating was not necessary. I just wish the remote dimmers and switches had LED's.

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post #296 of 1186 Old 11-02-2010, 06:35 AM
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thanks, herdfan

you forced me to go dig up the specs

non-neutral dimmers can be installed in any location in the circuit

neutral dimmers must be installed on the load side


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post #297 of 1186 Old 11-05-2010, 05:18 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fiasco View Post

Reprogram is quite the pain right now because you have to return to the site to do it

Simple. Take an old computer, put XP on it, set up for remote desktop
add the lutron software, and connect to it and reprogram from anywhere.
Sooner or later the software will be out in the wild anywhere, might
as well be ahead of the curve.
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post #298 of 1186 Old 11-06-2010, 05:04 AM
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Just an FYI for anyone trying to get a PC communicating with the main repeater via a WiFi connection. We just did this and had a heck of a time figuring out why we could connect fine on a wired connection but on WiFi, Essentials could not find the main repeater. This particular home was equipped with Cisco 1141N wireless access points through out the house. After several weeks of troubleshooting, the problem turns out to be that Essentials uses UDP multi-casting to discover the main repeater. The Cisco WAPs block multicasting in their default configuration. You have to turn off a feature called IGMP snooping in order to get multi-casting to work. This can be done through the Cisco command interface by issuing a "no ip igmp snooping" command. Once we did this on all 4 WAPs, the WiFi connection works like a champ.
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post #299 of 1186 Old 11-17-2010, 12:39 PM
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Quote:
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I was thinking the same thing when I saw the original post....



Then again, some DIY's will want to take the RA2 further than some installers will want to go (at least for any reasonable price). The whole system is very well designed and easy to program. It's the kind of thing you could play with for hours on end, tweaking bits here and there until you get everything perfect. (Now if only they'd get a fan controller released...)

I am curious why you would want a fan controller? Would this be to turn on a ceiling fan at a certain time? If so why would you want to do that?

Thanks.
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post #300 of 1186 Old 11-17-2010, 12:54 PM
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I read a post on here that even if you go take the BLAST course and thereby are eligible for the software it goes inactive after 1 year.

Was this true? Is it still true?
eonibm is offline  
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