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post #451 of 1034 Old 12-13-2011, 06:03 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ksalno View Post

Mark,

I've been a RadioRA customer since 2004, starting with the original RA system and walk around programming. Now run my whole house with it, along with integration to a Savant system. I love the iPad app. Will be replacing an old LightTouch system next week that I use for outdoor lighting which will put me over 90 loads on the system. It works great. Very reliable and easy to use.

Karl

Thanks Karl: it is good not to have to run around to each control

I was planning on using the RTI 2 way drivers for control but the iPad app is so good I may just use it standalone and not bother with the RTI programming

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post #452 of 1034 Old 12-14-2011, 06:11 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by markrubin View Post

I was planning on using the RTI 2 way drivers for control but the iPad app is so good I may just use it standalone and not bother with the RTI programming

Exactly what I ended up doing. I had some Savant interfaces done to control the Grafik Eye in the theater but never did the remaining room lights or HVAC. It's just as easy to use the Lutron app and with the multi-tasking on the iPad 2, it's really no difference in speed or performance either.
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post #453 of 1034 Old 12-14-2011, 07:15 AM
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thanks for the comments and if you would, one more question:

in replacing the old Grafik Eye with the QS, there was a line voltage connection to a legacy RR switch (a square button) at the entrance to my HT that would toggle the lights on/off: this was connected to the SSC connector on the old Grafik Eye

The new QS does not have a similar terminal so that switch is not functional and there is no AC at the switch now (the wire was capped)

I am thinking of placing a Pico battery powered wireless control over this switch to perform the same function: not clear to me if Pico integrates easily since it is intended for shade control? I have no other shade control devices in my system. This seems like a cheap alternative that does not require calling the electrician back

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post #454 of 1034 Old 12-14-2011, 10:51 AM
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I am close to making my purchase decision on the RadioRA2 but am still confused about the support for CFL/LED bulbs. I see that the RRD-F6AN-DV supports a 3-wire system but what about for a typical CFL or LED bulb that just replaces a standard incandescant. Does the RRD-6D work with those? I am confused because the standalone controls Lutron offers a CL Dimmers line now.

And for the lamp modules, if I have a table with two small lamps on it that would really always both be on or off is it common to just use a plug expander with the RR-3PD-1 to connect both lamps?

Thanks
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post #455 of 1034 Old 12-14-2011, 01:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by markrubin View Post

thanks for the comments and if you would, one more question:

in replacing the old Grafik Eye with the QS, there was a line voltage connection to a legacy RR switch (a square button) at the entrance to my HT that would toggle the lights on/off: this was connected to the SSC connector on the old Grafik Eye

The new QS does not have a similar terminal so that switch is not functional and there is no AC at the switch now (the wire was capped)

I am thinking of placing a Pico battery powered wireless control over this switch to perform the same function: not clear to me if Pico integrates easily since it is intended for shade control? I have no other shade control devices in my system. This seems like a cheap alternative that does not require calling the electrician back

I was able to confirm this solution today: this Pico wireless keypad worked perfectly: it is battery powered and has adhesive mounting strip: mounted over old non functional switch: and it is inexpensive

copy & pasted Grafik Eye QS commands for all on scene and all off : problem solved

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post #456 of 1034 Old 12-15-2011, 05:04 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jdahlke View Post

And for the lamp modules, if I have a table with two small lamps on it that would really always both be on or off is it common to just use a plug expander with the RR-3PD-1 to connect both lamps?

Thanks

I can't help with the CFL/LED question, as I don't have any of those installed.

For the table lamps, I have two options I use based on the use case. For lamps where I want to have the possibility of manual control, I use a RR-3LD which I place on the table where it is easily accessible. For lamps where I only need control from the program or a wall keypad, then I use the RR-3PD which can be installed under the table or on the floor where it is less conspicuous. They are both dimmers but can obviously be used as an on/off switch if you want. The difference is the 3PD doesn't have a touch pad control for manual dimming adjustment, like the 3LD.

I do use plug extenders to have multiple lamps controlled via on unit.
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post #457 of 1034 Old 12-15-2011, 10:23 AM
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The CFL & LED are tricky because there are so many variations in manufacturer, quality dim-ability, etc..

Lutron has put together a pretty good tool to help though. Check out:
http://www.lutron.com/Service-Support/Technical/Design-SelectionTools/Pages/LEDDimmerMatrix.aspx

If you visit that page simply select the Lutron Control type you are planning on using and it will populate a list of tested fixtures and lamps. If you can find the LED product you are trying to use it will have a link to what they call a 'Report Card' of how well it performed, min&max number of fixtures or wattage's, etc..

In most cases though their RRD-6NA ("adaptive") Dimmer is the best solution. There are some counter intuitive points to note though. For example the Cree CR6 using the 1000w Neutral dimmer (RRD-10ND) can only handle 5 CR6 units (only 55watts) however the RRD-6NA (600watt) can handle 6 CR6's with slightly more range also.

Lutron is telling us the high inrush of these LED drivers is the reason you couldn't use more than 5, even on a thousand watt dimmer. (Use of interfaces will allow more fixtures and may necessitate an Fluorescent Dimmer or QS to control on an R2 system.)

The "report card" also shows other non-system dimmers such as the Diva, Maestro & Skylark. So it is a useful tool regardless of RR2

For CFL, you should still use an appropriate dimming ballast and corresponding dimmer like the F6AN for best results. Though the adaptive dimmer may work on certain 2-wire dimmable CFL lamps and ballasts. For the price of a well functioning dimmable CFL system, you may as well consider the LED version, as they are coming to near the same price or better.

I blogged about the LED Ad nauseam earlier this year, if you would like to read more...

Paul W.
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post #458 of 1034 Old 12-15-2011, 10:30 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by markrubin View Post

I was able to confirm this solution today: this Pico wireless keypad worked perfectly: it is battery powered and has adhesive mounting strip: mounted over old non functional switch: and it is inexpensive

copy & pasted Grafik Eye QS commands for all on scene and all off : problem solved

Another great use of the PICO, the switch in question was originally intended to control the first scene on the GE over existing 3-way wiring. Without having to change the wire or be otherwise able to get the low voltage cable there for a regular keypad.

Likewise, you could have used a wireless keypad, instead of a wired one. But if only one button is necessary the PICO is the most cost effective.

Point to note, if you have an application like this the PICO-FP-ADAPT (extra mounting plate) is now available as an accessory to make the PICO mountable to an existing gang box or LV ring.

Paul W.
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post #459 of 1034 Old 12-22-2011, 08:19 AM
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Hi All,

Since this a Lutron RadioRA 2 dedicated post i thought i'd ask the question here.

I am in the process of renovating my house and would like to implement RadioRA 2 to automate lights/scene's, i would like to do the following:

Lounge 1
1 x Dimmable LED Strip lighting
1 x Dimmable recessed down lighting

Lounge 2
1 x Dimmable LED Strip lighting
1 x Dimmable recessed down lighting

Kitchen
1 x Dimmable recessed down lighting
1 x LED Strip Cabinet lighting

Downstair Hall
1 x Dimmable recessed down lighting

Upstairs Hall
1 x Dimmable recessed down lighting

Bedroom's
1 x Dimmable recessed down lighting

I would like to have 2/3 scenes for the Loung rooms and Kitchen. To implement this do I need to install Grafik Eye or can I do it another way?

I have tried looking but all the Lutron dimmers are wall mountable and there's none that I can hide in between floor space.

Any better solution? I can't afford to send much but which is a downside but would like to be able to add elements in the future.

Regards

VJ
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post #460 of 1034 Old 12-22-2011, 10:36 AM
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I would spec a RRD-6NA-XX in-wall ELV dimmer for each of the lights/LED strips you are talking about, so that would be 9 ELV dimmers. I would do ELV rather than regular incandescent dimmers because you have the option to use LED downlights now or in the future for long term energy savings. If you want to use incandescent bulbs in your downlights then you could do 3 ELV dimmers and 6 RRD-6D-XX dimmers.

For scene control you will need keypads at each location that you want to activate the scene. If you really only have 3 scenes in a room then the RRD-W3BSRL-XX keypad will give you 3 buttons you can use for scenes. I would probably put in RRD-W4S-XX so you can have an extra button for "green mode" or something like that. I personally don't like the look of the Grafik Eye.

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post #461 of 1034 Old 12-23-2011, 08:17 AM
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The 6NA dimmer is great for LED cans, but most of the LED strips we sell use dimmable MLV based drivers so a less expensive dimmer (regular 6D) could work there as long as you are well within it's minimum wattage. If you are close to 60watts or under on your strip definitely use the 6NA. And I mean 60 watts of load[LED] not a 60 watt transformer. The 6NA has a much lower min. without looking I think it's 10watt.

With RA classic (1st Gen.) the GE was a more affordable way to add 6 dimmers and it only counted as one device. With RR2 it's cheaper to do individual dimmers, making the Grafik QS more of an aesthetic decision than anything else. You do not need the GE for scene the keypads will take care of that. Also, the GE QS now counts as 6 devices and timing can be setup in the repeater. So the only other advantages to using the GE QS is less wall space, wired IR integration, Wired Occ sensor integration.

They now offer plug-in switching & dimming modules, but either way access is required, for initial setup/activation and NEC compliance. I would hide the dimmers in a gang box in the attic, basement, nearby closet/pantry, etc.. & just use a keypad as mentioned above. Also it may be more economical to just use a pico for a keypad if only 2 or 3 scenes, however a full keypad would be better if you plan on expanding the system later.

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post #462 of 1034 Old 01-17-2012, 06:37 AM
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will RA2 switches work regardless if there is a main repeater/auxilliary unit working? for example, lets say you have a working RA2 home setup and the main repeater dies for some reason along with all of the auxilliary repeaters. will the actual switches (3 and 4 way) still work like a regular switch? i assume the scene keypads and conditional programming logic obviously not as they need the repeater.

im really just looking for a foolproof setup of everything still working like a regular house in the event something gets out of whack.

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post #463 of 1034 Old 01-17-2012, 07:05 AM
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^^^

Anthony

Local RR switches/ dimmers basic function should still work even if the main/aux repeaters are not working

I still have some original RR dimmers in my house that still work as standalone after I upgraded to RR2

I love RR2: it is great (my opinion only)

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post #464 of 1034 Old 01-18-2012, 09:10 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Anthony A. View Post

will RA2 switches work regardless if there is a main repeater/auxilliary unit working? for example, lets say you have a working RA2 home setup and the main repeater dies for some reason along with all of the auxilliary repeaters. will the actual switches (3 and 4 way) still work like a regular switch? i assume the scene keypads and conditional programming logic obviously not as they need the repeater.

im really just looking for a foolproof setup of everything still working like a regular house in the event something gets out of whack.

The switches and dimmers will continue to work as normal without the main repeater. Keypads will also continue to work, as the software is downloaded to them from the main repeater, so they do not need the main repeater to function. One place you may have an issue is if you have a switch or outlet too far away from a keypad. If you are using an aux repeater, this may be the case. Without the aux repeater, the keypad may not be able to reach the most remote switches.

However, the aux repeaters will continue to function as signal relays, even if the main repeater is down, so this case would only occur if both the main and aux were down at the same time. This would probably only happen in the case of a power failure or lightning strike and in either case, you've got bigger problems.

The only thing I'm not sure about is time clock functions. I think these may need the main repeater. Also I believe (but am not positive) that the new HVAC controls need the main repeater to function.
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post #465 of 1034 Old 01-19-2012, 05:09 PM
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Is anyone familiar with using Irule and a global cache to control their main repeater through ip like the lutron app. I have it working with rs232 but I'm not sure if im able to use ip commands with out Irule having a login for the repeater?
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post #466 of 1034 Old 01-20-2012, 02:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by parish99 View Post

Is anyone familiar with using Irule and a global cache to control their main repeater through ip like the lutron app. I have it working with rs232 but I'm not sure if im able to use ip commands with out Irule having a login for the repeater?

Sent PM

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post #467 of 1034 Old 01-24-2012, 12:16 PM
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Hello,
We are installing Radio RA2 to control the lights in our home. We'll also be installing some motorized shades from Lutron and integrating them into the system.

Our home has some existing motorized shades wired to line voltage SPDT switches that provide UP/STOP/DOWN control of the shades. Kind of stumped on how best to integrate this into Radio RA2 WITHOUT having to tear up the existing installation and hardwiring some motor control to the Garage Visor Controller dry contacts.

It seems like there should be some way of controlling this type of a switch at the location of the switch (much like I can retrofit RRA2 at the switch location only). I'd consider some other automation solution (other than RRA2) for the existing shades as well - just would like to be able to programmatically control the shades and limit the retrofit to the wall switches.

Now then, if I could ensure that UP and DOWN were not pressed at the same time, replacing an existing switch with two neutral switches (one controlling UP/STOP and the other DOWN/STOP) seems like it would do the right thing, but this is almost certainly a recipe to burn out the motor when the wrong thing is pressed.

Thoughts??
arn
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post #468 of 1034 Old 01-25-2012, 10:06 AM
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We've done this with a simple SPDT Relay and RR2 switch. Assuming the shades stop on limit switches or are internally limited(most do). The Switch "On" can be shades up, and the Switch "Off" could be a full down, however this would give you no preset or stoppable mid position, you would then need two switches if you wanted that function, like you mentioned or get really creative with some other relays/control equipment. The VCRX allows easy integration for this function, but you need a place to put it that would allow you to wire to/from your shades which may be tricky if already in place. The VCRX would be cheaper than 2 dimmers.

EDIT:
You could use a single RR2 switch and alternating relay. This would allow on "ON" state of the switch to travel the shade(s) in what ever direction was opposite of the last direction and stop in an "OFF" state of the switch. However the system would have no 'Feed back' to know the shade position and timing events would get screwed up if some one manually adjusted them.

The best option IHMO would be the VCRX or 2 switches.

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post #469 of 1034 Old 01-25-2012, 03:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by arnobarno View Post

Hello,
We are installing Radio RA2 to control the lights in our home. We'll also be installing some motorized shades from Lutron and integrating them into the system.

Our home has some existing motorized shades wired to line voltage SPDT switches that provide UP/STOP/DOWN control of the shades. Kind of stumped on how best to integrate this into Radio RA2 WITHOUT having to tear up the existing installation and hardwiring some motor control to the Garage Visor Controller dry contacts.

It seems like there should be some way of controlling this type of a switch at the location of the switch (much like I can retrofit RRA2 at the switch location only). I'd consider some other automation solution (other than RRA2) for the existing shades as well - just would like to be able to programmatically control the shades and limit the retrofit to the wall switches.

Now then, if I could ensure that UP and DOWN were not pressed at the same time, replacing an existing switch with two neutral switches (one controlling UP/STOP and the other DOWN/STOP) seems like it would do the right thing, but this is almost certainly a recipe to burn out the motor when the wrong thing is pressed.

Thoughts??
arn

If you have a line voltage switch in place already, why can't you put in a RA2 keypad to control the shades?
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post #470 of 1034 Old 01-25-2012, 03:55 PM
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Thanks for the reply.

We will be purchasing a VCRX anyway; however, mounting it in a place that allows it to control a relay that is wired to the motorized shades isn't an option, unfortunately.

I ran across an old thread (not RRA2) where someone talked about using one switch to control off/on and a second switch to swing between up/down. It sounds to me that this second "switch" is really your relay (but I dont know as I'm a software guy and this is all hardware to me) and there doesn't seem to be an in-wall RRA2 device that can do this (allow current to either flow to the up or down motor).

Having one switch for up/stop and another for down/stop just sounds like it will eventually burn out the motor when the inevitable mistake is made.

I can't believe there isn't some RF device that can do this by just replacing the SPDT in wall switch I have (RRA2 or other). Am I the only guy in the world that has motorized shades they'd like to integrate into a control system without retrofitting new motorized rollers/rf control boxes, etc.???
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post #471 of 1034 Old 01-25-2012, 03:56 PM
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How will the keypad control the shades? I'm not getting how you can do this. What function of the keypad (hybrid or standard) allows you to do this?

Remember that I need to switch between 3 states.
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post #472 of 1034 Old 01-26-2012, 07:17 AM
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For 3 states You would have to use 2 switches and two keypad buttons (used as room or path logic programing) one for "UP/STOP" Other for "DOWN/STOP", or as suggested One Button for "ON/OFF or START/STOP" other for "Raise/Lower" Either would work, however the latter would potentially require 2 button presses to start/reverse also the use and system feedback would be less intuitive and would also complicate time clock programming. Depending on the shade type the first scenario may work without relay(However relays are recommended to prevent both states from being active ~ 2x DPDT), the second scenario would require a relay at least for the "UP/DOWN" without potential for 2 states to be active.

Again the VCRX is the best way to handle this and a second VCRX is probably less expensive than another switch and relays, and would occupy the same or less space.

To clarify, without using the VCRX, 2 switches are required to develop 3 states (Up, Down, & Stop). 2x DPDT Relays should be used to electrically interlock the states so "UP" & "DOWN" cannot be active at the same time (to protect the motor(s)).

Alternately a single switch with a simple SPDT relay can be used to fully open or close the shades from the system,(any mid-position stopping with one switch and relay could only be done locally by the original shade control)

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post #473 of 1034 Old 02-05-2012, 04:52 AM
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how much wiring is involved to install RA2?

i'm doing major electrical work as part of a kitchen remodel (new panel, new circuits etc..). would that wiring change if i go with the RA2 lutron system? if so, how much? i did just learn about the benefits of keypads and streamlining the number of dimmers to a panel in my util closet. sounds like a major redesign. but then we're also leaning towards auto shades instead of shutters now. scope, i hate it.

should i get my electrician to install everything? or should i have a lutron installer? would i need both (electrician for rough, and lutron specialist for finishes)? i have no contract with an electrician yet, just a bid.

not sure how to proceed
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post #474 of 1034 Old 02-05-2012, 05:52 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by leftheaded View Post

how much wiring is involved to install RA2? Just be sure there is 110 volt run to the closet where you might put a keypad

i'm doing major electrical work as part of a kitchen remodel (new panel, new circuits etc..). would that wiring change if i go with the RA2 lutron system? if so, how much? i did just learn about the benefits of keypads and streamlining the number of dimmers to a panel in my util closet. sounds like a major redesign. but then we're also leaning towards auto shades instead of shutters now. scope, i hate it.

should i get my electrician to install everything? or should i have a lutron installer? would i need both (electrician for rough, and lutron specialist for finishes)? i have no contract with an electrician yet, just a bid.

not sure how to proceed

there is no special wiring needed: that is the advantage of RR2. Run 110 volt line to closet for a keypad

Lutron dimmers and keypads replace existing switches/ dimmers

with new construction, you can use builders basic switches : than the Lutron electrician replaces some with RR2 devices whenever you decide

of course you can start with installing RR2 devices (that requires a lot of planning to do it right)

The Lutron programmer will use a licensed electrician to install devices: might be a subcontractor

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post #475 of 1034 Old 02-05-2012, 09:44 AM
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The thing that is throwing me off is the idea to put most of my switches in in the utility closet (next to the new elec panel). The guy at the store said i would leave all the switches on, and never really go back there. Rather, i'd use keypads to operate things, keeping the look "sleek".

Is it common to hide the switches in a closet? Or is it "bad" not to?

Fwiw, My wife really doesnt care about hiding switches. In fact, my original idea didnt even include any keypads - i was simply going to replace my switches with lutron dimmers after the contractors were done.
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post #476 of 1034 Old 02-05-2012, 09:59 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by leftheaded View Post

The thing that is throwing me off is the idea to put most of my switches in in the utility closet (next to the new elec panel). The guy at the store said i would leave all the switches on, and never really go back there. Rather, i'd use keypads to operate things, keeping the look "sleek".

Is it common to hide the switches in a closet? Or is it "bad" not to?

Fwiw, My wife really doesnt care about hiding switches. In fact, my original idea didnt even include any keypads - i was simply going to replace my switches with lutron dimmers after the contractors were done.

I never hid a switch in a closet: but the lighting designer did leave at least 2 boxes where he thought a RR device may be added in the future: so it ended up a box with a blank cover: for future use

You will need a RR2 dimmer/ device for every circuit you want to control, and accessory dimmers, like 3 way controls, are cheap to add

put keypads in strategic areas: by each entrance door, in the MBR, kitchen, etc

in my 5500 sq ft home, I have 6 keypads, 20 dimmers, 15 acc dimmers, and a GFE: if I had planned it better, I could have reduced the count: you can never have too many though: all a function of cost

planning can reduce the device count: for example use a hybrid control in place of a dimmer and a keypad

that is why I recommend to start with a basic system: adding devices is easy: the nice thing about RR2 is you can add devices at any time

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post #477 of 1034 Old 02-05-2012, 10:24 AM
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forgot to add

say you want to add a device where there is no AC prewired:

you can add a Pico wireless PJ-2B-GWH-IO1 control, battery powered, for on/off or any program you copy & paste to each button

RR2 is highly flexible

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post #478 of 1034 Old 02-05-2012, 12:06 PM
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thanks mark, really helpful.

looks like i'm going to be at lutron's website all day planning out my whole setup:

recessed lighting and controls
motorized shades
thermostat


i've been wanting to get a system like this for years and now i'm going to cram all my research and design into 2 days. oh well, i'm not doing this kitchen remodel and missing out on the ideal time to get my automation system
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post #479 of 1034 Old 02-05-2012, 05:53 PM
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You should use an electrician that is RA2 certified. After that installation and programming is simple.
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post #480 of 1034 Old 02-06-2012, 05:04 AM
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I would advise against hiding switches in a utility closet. It might give a cleaner look but it doesn't work well for guests, cleaning people, etc. who aren't going to know how to operate your keypads or ipad remote. I uses the dimmers/switches for single load control and use the keypads for macro functions like Scenes and All Off.
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