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post #1021 of 1226 Old 07-11-2014, 08:59 AM
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Originally Posted by fuzzy bee View Post
Nice! I hadn't thought to look at other manufacturers. Thanks!
To be honest, since most anything today is homelink compatible, I bet you could walk into a home depot or Lowes and get a similar kit - it would be sold as a universal wireless kit or something like that for a garage door opener... I bet Amazon would have this for a good price too.
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post #1022 of 1226 Old 07-11-2014, 06:32 PM
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Are the RadioRa2 digital switches really more expensive than the dimmers? Everyone one I have received a quote from has the RRD-8S significantly more expensive than the RRD-6CL dimmer. Maybe it is because it is dual voltage? Have a bunch of lights that don't really need a dimmer, example outdoor house and patio but are dimmable if it is a cheaper option. Some locations don't have a neutral wire and I am not concerned about wattage minimum so I was gonna go with the 8S switches. Any suggestions?

Thanks
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post #1023 of 1226 Old 07-11-2014, 11:36 PM
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Originally Posted by A&M 350Z View Post
Are the RadioRa2 digital switches really more expensive than the dimmers? Everyone one I have received a quote from has the RRD-8S significantly more expensive than the RRD-6CL dimmer. Maybe it is because it is dual voltage? Have a bunch of lights that don't really need a dimmer, example outdoor house and patio but are dimmable if it is a cheaper option. Some locations don't have a neutral wire and I am not concerned about wattage minimum so I was gonna go with the 8S switches. Any suggestions?
Do you need the dual voltage support? If not, use the RRD-8ANS as long as you have a neutral. But for locations without neutral that CAN be dimmed and meet the load minimums, use the -6CL... The -8ANS is the same MSRP as the -6CL.

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post #1024 of 1226 Old 07-12-2014, 08:52 AM
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Originally Posted by jautor View Post
Do you need the dual voltage support? If not, use the RRD-8ANS as long as you have a neutral. But for locations without neutral that CAN be dimmed and meet the load minimums, use the -6CL... The -8ANS is the same MSRP as the -6CL.

Jeff
Ok, thanks. Do not need dual voltage so will use the 8ans or 6cl when can be dimmed. I assumed switches would be a little less expensive than the dimmers.

One other question. When replacing a standard 3 way switch with a dimmable load, due I just use 1 dimmer such as 6cl and 1 remote dimmer at the second switch? Does it matter the location of the dimmer vs remote dimmer? (EDIT: I see dimmer must be installed on load side but still confused how to replace 3 way switch). The traveler wire would be connected to the blue screw correct?

Thanks again.

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post #1025 of 1226 Old 07-12-2014, 09:07 AM
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The dimmer goes in the location that has the load wires leading to the lighting. Take that into consideration. You can use a dimmer with multiple remote dimmers. I've got one with three (outside floodlights). Same thing with the switch.

Who's doing your lighting plan? There's a lot to lighting that bears having advice. I'm well acquainted with all this gear but the time I paid to have a lighting consultant do a walk-through was WELL worth it. We tweaked placement of a few fixtures, add/omitted some and she even caught the fact the electrical sub had installed all the wrong cans. So give it some thought.

That and where are you planning on putting keypads? With automated lighting they're definitely worthwhile.
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post #1026 of 1226 Old 07-12-2014, 09:26 AM
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Originally Posted by wkearney99 View Post
The dimmer goes in the location that has the load wires leading to the lighting. Take that into consideration. You can use a dimmer with multiple remote dimmers. I've got one with three (outside floodlights). Same thing with the switch.

Who's doing your lighting plan? There's a lot to lighting that bears having advice. I'm well acquainted with all this gear but the time I paid to have a lighting consultant do a walk-through was WELL worth it. We tweaked placement of a few fixtures, add/omitted some and she even caught the fact the electrical sub had installed all the wrong cans. So give it some thought.

That and where are you planning on putting keypads? With automated lighting they're definitely worthwhile.
Got it. I think I was confused because on the Lutron sight it says a 3-way switch is not compatible with multiple location dimming. I guess they mean a dimmer and regular switch on the same line. You must replace the 3 way switches with dimmer and remote dimmer. Location makes sense.

This is a simple retrofit, basically replacing mostly standard Maestro dimmers and a few switches with RadioRa2 products. Would definitely use lighting consultant on larger project.

Yes, we will use keypads, starting with 3 hybrid at common locations.
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post #1027 of 1226 Old 07-12-2014, 11:50 AM
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The lighting load is controlled either by a switch or a dimmer. Either can have a remote connected. Technically I think you can use remote switches on dimmers and vice versa. Obviously you'd lose any dimmer control at that location if you used a remote switch on it. But, suffice to say, don't do that nor expect it to actually work. Use the right combination.

When using keypads I'm of the opinion it's a good plan to not depend on using ONLY a keypad when the location is a primary entry to a space. As in, having a paddle switch to avoid making for added effort trying to determine which tiny little keypad button to press. There's no 'rule' that says this is required, just some advice I think worth passing along. I do have two locations where a keypad is the only device; one is on the kitchen island backsplash, the other is a bedroom. On the island it works because it's not the primary lighting control for the room. In the bedroom, however, it's a mistake. Unfortunately the segment of wall at that location prevented using a 3-gang box. I need one of them for fan control, so I had to use the other position for a hybrid. I'm in the process of rectifying this by moving the fan control to a remote location and using the keypad buttons to control it's speed. This will give me back the 2nd location to use for the primary room lighting. Darned shame they don't make a RA2 canopy fan control...
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post #1028 of 1226 Old 07-12-2014, 12:00 PM
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Here is an example of a main switch with a keypad in the kitchen. Makes it easy to control the main light and then the keypad is the same around the room (3 hybrid keypads around kitchen). The main switch and top button of the keypad control the same lights so no fumbling for a keypad button in he dark. Since this is a hybrid keypad, I was able to work around bad wiring locations and control loads while still having access to those lights from any of the 3 keypads. In other words, by using the hybrid keypads, I was able to save money and clean up effort as I would have otherwise had to run some additional wires to get 3-ways correct like I wanted them. Hybrid keypads saved that hassle; looks and works so much better.

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post #1029 of 1226 Old 07-12-2014, 12:08 PM
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Yes, and also consider you can use a keypad (only) instead of a remote device. It's not actually wired as part of the circuit, it's just the keypad sending an RF command to the circuit's dimmer. Or use a hybrid for something else wired through there and not use any of it's buttons to control the load. I've got one set up that way because the electrician wired the floodlight load to someplace I don't want to use for controlling it. A keypad elsewhere (and the remote dimmers) control the floods. The hybrid's just doing the load control while the buttons control other stuff (ceiling fan, scenes).

I may swap out another remote dimmer with a keypad to open up some more button options.
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post #1030 of 1226 Old 07-12-2014, 12:38 PM
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Thanks guys, good tips. Since it is a retrofit, I think I will have to use they keypads to control some loads. Otherwise, would have to expand every junction box and some are already 3 gang.

What would you guys suggest I do with my master bedroom which has a 2 gang with 1 dimmer for recessed and a dual dimmer for fan and seperate chandelier? Expand to 3 gang with hybrid, dimmer and fan control?

dgage, are those the temporary stickers on the keypad?
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post #1031 of 1226 Old 07-12-2014, 01:12 PM
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That's pretty much the same problem I have in a bedroom. 2 gang and needing 3 devices.

The RA2 fan control requires 1 gang. No combo fan/light exists (unfortunately). It controls only the fan, not the light. So there needs to be another device 'somewhere' to control one of them (fan, fan light or recessed lights). Lutron does make a junction-box connectable device, the RF softswitch (whose part# escapes me). I chose not to use this as I need buttons, not local fan control.

My plan is to use a dimmer for the recessed lights and then hybrid to control the fan and it's light. The 5 buttons on it would be:

[Fan Light] (toggle)
[Fan High] (scene)
[Fan Med] (scene)
[Fan Low] (scene)
[All Off] (scene)

This way anyone expecting to be able to choose a fan speed will have that option. The fan controller itself will get mounted elsewhere, in my case up in the attic.

In your case you'd likely want to consider adding a 3rd position to that box, or another box adjacent to it. It'd depend on the
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post #1032 of 1226 Old 07-12-2014, 01:54 PM
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Originally Posted by A&M 350Z View Post
dgage, are those the temporary stickers on the keypad?
Are you saying they don't look perfect? Yes...they are indeed printed labels stuck on there. I keep meaning to get them laser engraved but I haven't bought motorized shades yet. Once I do that, I'll be 100% done and will get laser engraving done then. But it still looks professional but looking at the up close picture, it looks like I could have done better.

Oh yeah...it gave me time to figure out I want to rename the down light to island. So good idea for initial deployment maybe before engraving makes it permanent.
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post #1033 of 1226 Old 07-12-2014, 02:04 PM
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heh, I still haven't even put sticker on. I really DO need to get some of the ones at the patio door labeled...
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post #1034 of 1226 Old 07-12-2014, 04:48 PM
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heh, I still haven't even put sticker on. I really DO need to get some of the ones at the patio door labeled...
I just put some stickers on as I had guests staying for a week, and well, even I don't remember which buttons do what - since I just haven't finished playing with them yet. Lutron's advice to live with these systems "for a few months" before ordering the custom engraving is very, very good advice indeed!

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post #1035 of 1226 Old 07-12-2014, 07:21 PM
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Lutron's advice to live with these systems "for a few months" before ordering the custom engraving is very, very good advice indeed!
I totally agree. I've made at least 50 edits to the programming since we moved in last Fall. Including the addition of several keypads as replacements for a few dimmers. I'm still not really make much use of "scenes" though. That is, in the "set a mood" sense. I suppose that'll become more likely when we do the theater later this year. But other than the dining room there's not been too many situations where the way we use the space would benefit from having dedicated scene settings. But I do have various lights grouped together, but that's usually for an "Area Off" or an "All Off".

Once I get off the fence and get an automation system going I suspect there will be more opportunity for scene-like coordination.
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post #1036 of 1226 Old 07-14-2014, 10:19 PM
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Has anyone tried using a 2 button pico as a toe activated switch?
(Turned on its side up against a cabinet toe kick, so you can "poke" it with a big toe.)
I received the 2 button pico today and set it up horizontally on the toe-kick using a 3M command strip.
Of course it works to control the light.

We are a barefoot household, so I can find it with my toe. However I had to put it right on the edge of a chunk of trim, as finding the left "on" key is harder than I expected. So I find the trim as a target and then follow onto the pico so I can toe it on.

On had to be programmed with a fade of 0 seconds, otherwise you aren't sure if you hit the pico or not. You can almost feel the key travel, but not a lot.

Off was programmed with a fade of 1 second. I still wanted the fade there, but 2 seconds was too long of a delay getting visual feedback that you actually activated the switch.

The nightlight on the pico is not strong enough to be visible in the dark room. I had hoped it would cast a little bit of light onto the floor to show its location, but the battery and LED just aren't up to the task.
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post #1037 of 1226 Old 07-15-2014, 09:25 AM
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Has anyone compared the rrd-6cl and 6na directly? I have a few led and incandescent loads that do not completly dim and wondering if it is the 50 watt minimum of the 6cl that is the problem. Specifically, I have 6 recessed leds that have the "pop on" effect but that may just be the bulbs. I have a second zone that has 3 75 watt incandescents that do not dim completly with the 6cl. Thinking of trying a 6na instead.
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post #1038 of 1226 Old 07-15-2014, 11:01 AM
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Originally Posted by A&M 350Z View Post
Has anyone compared the rrd-6cl and 6na directly? I have a few led and incandescent loads that do not completly dim and wondering if it is the 50 watt minimum of the 6cl that is the problem. Specifically, I have 6 recessed leds that have the "pop on" effect but that may just be the bulbs. I have a second zone that has 3 75 watt incandescents that do not dim completly with the 6cl. Thinking of trying a 6na instead.
You'll certainly hit the minimum load issue with incandescent loads on the 6CL - I misread the specs when I bought a few and ran into that. Luckily I was able to shuffle them around and use 6NA's where I needed the low-minimum. I had a nice *whew* moment with my under-cabinet lights as they didn't dim due to the load - they are halogen fixtures and they were on the "low" setting as full brightness was too bright when used with a switch. But changing them to "high" obviously increases the load presented, so then they'd dim correctly - and I just have them set at a lower-than-"low" setting anyway...

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post #1039 of 1226 Old 07-15-2014, 12:56 PM
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Hmm, think I will just buy a few 6na's and just play around to see which works better.
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post #1040 of 1226 Old 07-17-2014, 10:49 AM
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Anyone know if you can use a full 6CL dimmer at a remote location and not the RD-RD? I have a 3 gang with a 6CL, RD, and keypad. Looks a little cluttered with 3 different products and would like to just use another 6CL in place of the RD. So, it would be a line with two 6CL's and no RD.


Thanks.
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post #1041 of 1226 Old 07-22-2014, 09:12 AM
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Originally Posted by A&M 350Z View Post
Anyone know if you can use a full 6CL dimmer at a remote location and not the RD-RD? I have a 3 gang with a 6CL, RD, and keypad. Looks a little cluttered with 3 different products and would like to just use another 6CL in place of the RD. So, it would be a line with two 6CL's and no RD.
You can't do that. Also, the RD is a lot cheaper than the CL, but I suppose you know that.

I suppose it would be neat if they came up with a way to make a RD-RD that communicated with the repeater(s) directly to show the level. Another thing that would be interesting about something like this is that it could be like a pico (in that it doesn't have to be wired into anything) but in this case it could receive power for the LEDs and work for toggling vs 1-button presets. In fact you'd just wire the dimmer like a single pole since everything could communicate through the repeater.
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post #1042 of 1226 Old 07-23-2014, 02:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by A&M 350Z View Post
Anyone know if you can use a full 6CL dimmer at a remote location and not the RD-RD? I have a 3 gang with a 6CL, RD, and keypad. Looks a little cluttered with 3 different products and would like to just use another 6CL in place of the RD. So, it would be a line with two 6CL's and no RD.


Thanks.
If you want to move whatever the RD is wired to, to this location you could. Depending on the dimmer and load. Worst case you would just have to replace the previous main dimmer location with a Pico or keypad. In some cases you can swap the main dimmer and RD location (non-neutral connected dimmers only)

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post #1043 of 1226 Old 07-25-2014, 10:19 AM
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Worst case you would just have to replace the previous main dimmer location with a Pico or keypad. In some cases you can swap the main dimmer and RD location (non-neutral connected dimmers only)
While we're on the subject, are there cases in which a 6D/6CL would not work on a leg in a 3-way/4-way environment. I was thinking about putting a keypad at the top of some stairs where I currently have a RD-RD, but I'm thinking now whether that is for sure possible in every situation.
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post #1044 of 1226 Old 07-25-2014, 10:27 AM
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I have 1 10D (new) and 7 short-term used 6D units that I don't need. Would anyone be interested in:
  • Buying the 10D for $99 shipped (USA, extra other places);
  • Buying the 6Ds for $60 ea or $50 ea. for 5+ shipped (USA, extra other places); or
  • Swapping (up to a few) 6Ds for any 8ANS you'd like to have dim?
Just thought as shown in previous threads people have liked deals like these, but I'm happy to go elsewhere.
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post #1045 of 1226 Old 07-25-2014, 10:32 AM
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While we're on the subject, are there cases in which a 6D/6CL would not work on a leg in a 3-way/4-way environment. I was thinking about putting a keypad at the top of some stairs where I currently have a RD-RD, but I'm thinking now whether that is for sure possible in every situation.
I broke many 3-Ways when putting in dimmers... its generally no problem - just make sure you trace the wires so you know what goes where... I would think the only place you could run into an issue would be with a really unusual 3-way wiring setup...
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post #1046 of 1226 Old 07-25-2014, 10:59 AM
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While we're on the subject, are there cases in which a 6D/6CL would not work on a leg in a 3-way/4-way environment. I was thinking about putting a keypad at the top of some stairs where I currently have a RD-RD, but I'm thinking now whether that is for sure possible in every situation.

3-way is a great option for a keypad, 4-way you need to carefully trace the wiring but definitely possible. Just have to remember you need to get 120vac to a keypad so depending on your wiring, you may have to reconfigure one of the travelers back to a neutral at the main location.

There seems to be a lot of resistance to using pico's as keypads for this, but this is a great application (no wiring). And with 10yr (estimated) battery life I think that's not such a bad deal. Especially for most of them being less than $20.

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post #1047 of 1226 Old 07-25-2014, 11:03 AM
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FYI, for those of you that haven't figured it out yet the Pico (since 7.2 apparently) can now be configured to operate the CCO's on the VCRX. This was lacking prior and since the buttons are so tiny on the VCRX this makes a great simple & cheap add-on as a garage door opener button in the garage. Please take a minute to play with the programming as if you are doing multiple circuits on 1 pico you may want to un-check some of the default settings.
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post #1048 of 1226 Old 07-25-2014, 05:01 PM
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So I have an issue with an antiquated HVAC control system and damper control . According to the products specs for the Lutron LR-HWLV-HVAC TouchPRO Wireless Thermostat, it supports multi zone damper control. What I cannot find is 1) what brand, Aprilaire or Jackson's systems? 2) How does the zone control wire into the Lutron HVAC control system? Cannot find mention in any of the resource docs, but marketing says it should work.

Really need this to work, as current thermostat system is 30 years old and without a wireless option, will need to rewire it all!

Thank you
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post #1049 of 1226 Old 07-25-2014, 09:45 PM
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Originally Posted by spiwrx View Post
Please take a minute to play with the programming as if you are doing multiple circuits on 1 pico you may want to un-check some of the default settings.
Outstanding and useful info Paul as that would come in very handy in my garage.

But can you expand on what you mean by a Pico handling multiple circuits? I thought you could only use a Pico on one load, which annoyed me when I first got one as I wanted the middle button to control a different light. Ended up using my CQC home automation software to do what I wanted. Thanks.
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post #1050 of 1226 Old 07-27-2014, 10:25 AM
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Originally Posted by dgage View Post
Outstanding and useful info Paul as that would come in very handy in my garage.

But can you expand on what you mean by a Pico handling multiple circuits? I thought you could only use a Pico on one load, which annoyed me when I first got one as I wanted the middle button to control a different light. Ended up using my CQC home automation software to do what I wanted. Thanks.
When you are programming the Pico there is a small checkbox on the left side panel where it shows a picture of the Pico. Uncheck that box and the buttons will be split, allowing you to assign anything to each button.

Raise/lower are special, they operate as a pair. But you can assign raise/lower a different set of loads then the on/off and the middle button (assuming the 3BRL pico).
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