Lutrons RadioRA2 - Page 42 - AVS Forum
Forum Jump: 
 21Likes
Reply
 
Thread Tools
post #1231 of 1245 Old Yesterday, 12:06 PM
Member
 
Swancoat's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 91
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 8 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by intake View Post
You can create a multi device scene that is executed from a keypad, virtual keypad or time clock. You cannot trigger a scene by using a local switch, at least not using the standard RadioRA2 configuration and controller. If you have an external controller (Crestron, Roomie Remote, etc) that can read and script based on watching the on state of devices, then you can trigger a scene when the device state changes.

Does that make sense?
Yes, and that is what my perception of the system was. Unfortunate that it takes a $350 keypad to do that.
Swancoat is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #1232 of 1245 Old Yesterday, 12:26 PM
Member
 
rapamatic's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: Glencoe, IL
Posts: 34
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 12 Post(s)
Liked: 14
Quote:
Originally Posted by Swancoat View Post
Yes, and that is what my perception of the system was. Unfortunate that it takes a $350 keypad to do that.
Or a $30 pico....
rapamatic is online now  
post #1233 of 1245 Old Yesterday, 12:28 PM
Member
 
intake's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: In a van down by the river
Posts: 46
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 10 Post(s)
Liked: 14
Agreed on the cost of the Keypad, but make it a Hybrid Keypad at least and control a local load as well. It's this cost that has kept me from doing more keypads locally. This is the price for having a 'cheap' system. I will however say that my system has always been rock steady and has full wife acceptance.

I'd love to find a simple and CHEAP HA program that can script a single button press. Roomie remote is an option as I am already using it. I'm just not in love with their current subscription model. But a single button press of my 'Movie' scene on my keypad could now turn my AV system on, set my HUE lights to dim red and slowly dim my scene lights. What's not to love?
intake is offline  
post #1234 of 1245 Old Yesterday, 02:29 PM
Member
 
Swancoat's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 91
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 8 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Yeah, the $30 pico will work... but it still seems like a crutch for a simple problem. A good example is the game room upstairs in my house has a short hallway leading to it, with it's own light and switch. The only time I ever use it is on my way to the game room. With Insteon I just linked the two. I hit the light on the way in and the game room lights too. So, yeah, I could carry a pico for that, or put one in the wall in a two-gang setup and it'll work fine, but it's not really the 'best' solution.

Going through this exercise has sort of impressed me more with Insteon. I mean, I'm still having some mild communications issues and reliability issues that we've all heard of (which is why I'm exploring RadioRA2 in the first place), but it's super flexible. I use a great piece of software (Indigo) to help manage the network and it provides a very high level of flexibility.

Another great thing is the ability to have a 'double tap' on a switch call a second action. (i.e. tap 'on' to just turn the light on, but if I double-tap it, Indigo will then dim the light, and turn on a couple of lamps too).
Swancoat is offline  
post #1235 of 1245 Old Yesterday, 02:34 PM
Member
 
rapamatic's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: Glencoe, IL
Posts: 34
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 12 Post(s)
Liked: 14
Quote:
Originally Posted by Swancoat View Post
Another great thing is the ability to have a 'double tap' on a switch call a second action. (i.e. tap 'on' to just turn the light on, but if I double-tap it, Indigo will then dim the light, and turn on a couple of lamps too).
I agree with you here. Lutron locks this sort of functionality into HomeWorks, which is not a DIY option at all. You can configure regular button press, double tap, long tap, etc.... very flexible from what I've seen, but never something I'll get to play with.

Layering a 3rd party solution on top of RR2 can handle a lot of these scenarios, but likely won't be as bulletproof, and adds a layer of complexity....
rapamatic is online now  
post #1236 of 1245 Old Yesterday, 05:34 PM
AVS Special Member
 
dgage's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Posts: 1,802
Mentioned: 14 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 555 Post(s)
Liked: 322
Quote:
Originally Posted by rapamatic View Post
I agree with you here. Lutron locks this sort of functionality into HomeWorks, which is not a DIY option at all. You can configure regular button press, double tap, long tap, etc.... very flexible from what I've seen, but never something I'll get to play with.

Layering a 3rd party solution on top of RR2 can handle a lot of these scenarios, but likely won't be as bulletproof, and adds a layer of complexity....
And this is where I hate Lutron having Caseta too. I see this as too much fracturing of focus and resources. Chevy, GMC, Pontiac, Cadillac...yeah, too many options.
dgage is online now  
post #1237 of 1245 Old Today, 06:45 AM
AVS Special Member
 
wkearney99's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Bethesda, MD USA
Posts: 1,407
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 81 Post(s)
Liked: 63
Right, individual switches or dimmers aren't able to 'send' commands to other devices. Their actions, however, are being detected on the main repeater. If you have a 3rd party controller involved then all of those actions can be monitored and acted upon. So there's ways to get there, just not as part of the individual devices themselves.

I also dislike the fact that the RD devices lack the LEDs. It is annoying. I'm sure that given the overall price of the RA2 devices there's not many customers out there that would balk at paying something more for an RD with the status LEDs. I'd be willing to rip-and-replace a few of them to get the feature.
wkearney99 is offline  
post #1238 of 1245 Old Today, 06:52 AM
AVS Special Member
 
wkearney99's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Bethesda, MD USA
Posts: 1,407
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 81 Post(s)
Liked: 63
Quote:
Originally Posted by Swancoat View Post
Another great thing is the ability to have a 'double tap' on a switch call a second action. (i.e. tap 'on' to just turn the light on, but if I double-tap it, Indigo will then dim the light, and turn on a couple of lamps too).
The only problem with this is you're overloading the functionality of what most people are going to assume is a simple on/off device. It makes for a nightmare for guests or cleaning staff to operate. That and you're forcing yourself to "remember" some set of dances to go through just to turn on lights. This gets old, fast. Yeah, it's clever and for the truly geek-minded it's probably not too big of a deal. But for guests, spouses and children? Bad plan.

I'm not saying this because my gizmos won't do it, so don't get me wrong. I'm saying this from a usability perspective. It's just bad UI.
wkearney99 is offline  
post #1239 of 1245 Old Today, 06:58 AM
AVS Special Member
 
wkearney99's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Bethesda, MD USA
Posts: 1,407
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 81 Post(s)
Liked: 63
Quote:
Originally Posted by Swancoat View Post
Yeah, the $30 pico will work... but it still seems like a crutch for a simple problem. A good example is the game room upstairs in my house has a short hallway leading to it, with it's own light and switch. The only time I ever use it is on my way to the game room. With Insteon I just linked the two. I hit the light on the way in and the game room lights too. So, yeah, I could carry a pico for that, or put one in the wall in a two-gang setup and it'll work fine, but it's not really the 'best' solution.
What about putting a wireless motion sensor in the hallway? I've got a couple of them and they work great. Use some 3M CommandStrips to ease figuring out the proper placement. I've got them in the master closet, laundry room, the front porch, attic and a few other closets. They're working great. They're smart enough to detect there's enough daylight not to operate.

I'm thinking of adding one to the powder room, but only operating it in 'vacancy detected' mode. As in, it won't turn on the lights but will turn them off when it senses the room is empty. This will work to eliminate the hassle of my wife & child constantly leaving the light lit. Without running into the problem of it accidentally triggering all the time when foot traffic passes in the adjacent hallway. The sensors can do both, occupancy and vacancy. Most of the time you'd use both, but it's handy to have the choice.
wkearney99 is offline  
post #1240 of 1245 Old Today, 07:29 AM
Member
 
Swancoat's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 91
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 8 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by wkearney99 View Post
The only problem with this is you're overloading the functionality of what most people are going to assume is a simple on/off device. It makes for a nightmare for guests or cleaning staff to operate. That and you're forcing yourself to "remember" some set of dances to go through just to turn on lights. This gets old, fast. Yeah, it's clever and for the truly geek-minded it's probably not too big of a deal. But for guests, spouses and children? Bad plan.

I'm not saying this because my gizmos won't do it, so don't get me wrong. I'm saying this from a usability perspective. It's just bad UI.
That's a fair point. For the most part I use the double taps for my own geek purposes (scenes that I like, while the rest of the users just get on with regular use). I use a few of them for something like 'single tap shuts off the light, double tap shuts off everything in the room', which is intuitive enough.

Going through software to 'link' the switches sounds ok. I'm a bit curious about the responsiveness etc...
Swancoat is offline  
post #1241 of 1245 Old Today, 07:30 AM
Member
 
Swancoat's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 91
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 8 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by wkearney99 View Post
What about putting a wireless motion sensor in the hallway? I've got a couple of them and they work great. Use some 3M CommandStrips to ease figuring out the proper placement. I've got them in the master closet, laundry room, the front porch, attic and a few other closets. They're working great. They're smart enough to detect there's enough daylight not to operate.

I'm thinking of adding one to the powder room, but only operating it in 'vacancy detected' mode. As in, it won't turn on the lights but will turn them off when it senses the room is empty. This will work to eliminate the hassle of my wife & child constantly leaving the light lit. Without running into the problem of it accidentally triggering all the time when foot traffic passes in the adjacent hallway. The sensors can do both, occupancy and vacancy. Most of the time you'd use both, but it's handy to have the choice.
Now this is interesting. How responsive can these things get if you jack the sensitivity up as high as it goes? Can it go inside a closet and effectively replace an open/close sensor (I know that's asking a lot for a motion sensor).
Swancoat is offline  
post #1242 of 1245 Old Today, 07:33 AM
Member
 
Swancoat's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 91
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 8 Post(s)
Liked: 10
It's unfortunate the interface (well, and all the rest of the parts) are so expensive for RA2. I'd really like to get a few switches and just test drive the latency/response, etc...

All in, I'm really interested in moving to what would be a much more fully 'robust' lighting setup, especially as I have quite a few loads now, and can probably justify the cost but I'm not too interested in trading down functionality to get it.
Swancoat is offline  
post #1243 of 1245 Old Today, 08:25 AM
AVS Special Member
 
wkearney99's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Bethesda, MD USA
Posts: 1,407
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 81 Post(s)
Liked: 63
Quote:
Originally Posted by Swancoat View Post
That's a fair point. For the most part I use the double taps for my own geek purposes (scenes that I like, while the rest of the users just get on with regular use). I use a few of them for something like 'single tap shuts off the light, double tap shuts off everything in the room', which is intuitive enough.

Going through software to 'link' the switches sounds ok. I'm a bit curious about the responsiveness etc...
With the RA2 switches it's tap to bring the lighting up to the pre (or last) set level. Double-tap brings it up to 100%. Single tap turns it off if it's on. Everyone (including my +80yo in-laws) grasped this immediately. If I had overloaded features like double tapping for combinations I'd lose them right way. I designed the setup to have a paddle dimmer as the first device in the wall box. This brings up the 'most frequently used' lighting for the space. The light over a bath vanity (as opposed to the ceiling cans in the room) or the wall sconces in the the theater. But in the front entrance they bring up the ceiling cans along the main 'path' of lights on the first floor (which are wired as one circuit). The next position is usually a keypad for other lighting or scenes. The bottom button of all my keypads is configure for a location-suitable "All Off". For the ones by the entry doors this is a whole house shared scene. But for other rooms it's an "Area All Off". As in, turn off all the lighting in the basement rec room area (including a delayed off on the stairs leading up). Same thing with the master suite, the bottom button turns off the bedroom, the bath and the closet.

Anytime you use an 3rd party interface you'd need to plan accordingly. RA2 does a couple of things with scenes to aid response time. As in, commands are sent as a group to avoid congestion. So an 'All Off' scene gets sent as a single command to the Shared Scene instead of what could be up to 200 individual commands. Likewise you can configure the main repeater to only monitor certain devices to avoid getting a lot of messages you don't need.
wkearney99 is offline  
post #1244 of 1245 Old Today, 09:08 AM
AVS Special Member
 
wkearney99's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Bethesda, MD USA
Posts: 1,407
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 81 Post(s)
Liked: 63
Quote:
Originally Posted by Swancoat View Post
It's unfortunate the interface (well, and all the rest of the parts) are so expensive for RA2. I'd really like to get a few switches and just test drive the latency/response, etc...

All in, I'm really interested in moving to what would be a much more fully 'robust' lighting setup, especially as I have quite a few loads now, and can probably justify the cost but I'm not too interested in trading down functionality to get it.
The RA2 stuff costs more but I've found it worth the price paid. It's reliable and wife-friendly. My friends have commented how much they like the up-sweep dimmer on the front porch light, that and how the holiday and front facade lighting automatically adjust themselves for sunrise/sunset.

Over the decades I've had or tried just about everyone lighting solution out there, the Lutron stuff keeps coming back as the most reliable and least likely to torment my wife/guests/children. That's really made it a winner for me. The set-and-forget nature of how the switches and repeater behave is fantastic. Enough that I've delayed embarking on the 3rd party integration for a bit. Yeah, the tinkerer in me would like a few more features but the wise husband in me knows not to torment the wife...

Yes, it's a big bite to take but it's been worth it for me. Honestly, if they had more flexibility on HWQS supply I'd have seriously considered it instead. That's a whole other conversation, but adding conditional programming with Lutron reliability... that's definitely worth some consideration.
wkearney99 is offline  
post #1245 of 1245 Old Today, 03:50 PM
Member
 
spiwrx's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Southern California
Posts: 173
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 20 Post(s)
Liked: 22
Quote:
Originally Posted by Swancoat View Post
.....I have one lingering question: All along, it seems like there is no way to basically 'link' or bind two devices. Is this right? I know some systems (Insteon) use a method like this for 3 and 4 way switches, but in some places I just have loads that are almost always used coincidentally, so they're linked. It seems like this kind of functionality is not available in RR2......
I think the question was answered. But yes, you need a Keypad or Pico (or 3rd party) to create a scene with 2 "linked" devices we'll call a "scene" usually. I was a little thrown off but the wording because you can link the main device and RD in the software, but no you can only associate two(or more) unique zones to a keypad button or event. What you're really asking (I think) is for a conditional statement that basically says "if this device is on at this level, than this other device should be on at this level" that kind of functionality can be achieved through some 3rd party integration but directly in RR2 only with a Keypad. We all wish RR2 did this but it's not available in it's current form.

Paul W.
'Lutron Grafik Eye & Radio Ra Specialist - or anything Lutron'
Hanks Electrical Supply
www.hankselectric.net
FB Page
paul@hankselectric.net
spiwrx is online now  
Reply Home Automation



Forum Jump: 

Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off