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post #1351 of 1367 Old 02-20-2015, 07:33 AM
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It's nice to hit a button on a Pico / tabletop keypad / iPhone Widget and turn the fan on, without getting up. It's nice to hit one button on a keypad / iPhone Widget and turn everything off in the room. It also looks nice on the wall, as Swancoat mentioned. I guess I am just too lazy... :-)
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post #1352 of 1367 Old 02-20-2015, 03:56 PM
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I have my "All Off" scenes set to include turning off the fans. I likewise have bedside keypads in the master bedroom configured to toggle them on/off (to one of the speeds).

I do not yet have my family room fan installed but can definitely see where being able to control it from multiple locations (large open space adjacent to kitchen) will come in handy.

I'd use them for bathroom fans but there's no 'simple' way to have a timer associated with them, like on the non-RA Lutron countdown fan timers. THOSE are great for bathrooms. They use the from side switch (dimmer adjustment on RA2 lights) to adjust the timer duration. I'd LOVE to have that kind of functionality with RA integration.

I plan on moving one of the fan controllers to a different spot as the wall only has a two gang box (and no room for more). I'll use the keypad for the fan speed & light, along with another dimmer for the ceiling recessed cans. Right now the fan light isn't switched (just the chain). I could move that dimmer somewhere else but I feel it'd be more useful to have a hybrid dimmer/keypad there instead (as there's no hybrid/fan device). I suspect they'd sell a lot of them if they made a fan/light combo unit.
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post #1353 of 1367 Old 02-22-2015, 06:37 AM
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Thank you to those who replied about the ceiling fans. I will likely incorporate the frequently used ceiling fans into the RadioRa2 retrofit.

What about walk-in closets? I like the idea of occupancy sensors in walk-in closets, and automating closet lighting with RadioRa2 seems easy enough. However, I can achieve the objective for a lot lower cost using products from Lutron's Maestro line.

What is lost by relegating walk-in closet lighting to a non-RadioRa2 solution? Are there worthwhile benefits to having walk-in closet lighting on the whole house system?
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post #1354 of 1367 Old 02-22-2015, 10:06 AM
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What is lost by relegating walk-in closet lighting to a non-RadioRa2 solution? Are there worthwhile benefits to having walk-in closet lighting on the whole house system?
I don't think it's worth it. I use the Maestro occupancy sensor/switches for bathrooms, closet, laundry room, etc.
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post #1355 of 1367 Old 02-22-2015, 10:24 AM
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Thank you to those who replied about the ceiling fans. I will likely incorporate the frequently used ceiling fans into the RadioRa2 retrofit.

What about walk-in closets? I like the idea of occupancy sensors in walk-in closets, and automating closet lighting with RadioRa2 seems easy enough. However, I can achieve the objective for a lot lower cost using products from Lutron's Maestro line.

What is lost by relegating walk-in closet lighting to a non-RadioRa2 solution? Are there worthwhile benefits to having walk-in closet lighting on the whole house system?
Given the overall cost, the addition of a dimmer and a motion sensor is pretty trivial. I find it helpful to have the ability to set a scheduled event to turn it and other lights off on a regular basis. With the motion sensor that's not 'necessary' since it can be programmed to turn it off on it's own. That and separating the sensor from the wall switch allows for being able to fine tune exactly where the motion will trigger it. In our master closet that would not have been convenient as there are two doors into it and the line of sight to both wall switch positions are blocked by cabinetry. A sensor on the ceiling is the only place that works.
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post #1356 of 1367 Old 02-23-2015, 05:30 AM
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The only main RR2 advantage with RR2 in closets I is the ability to integrate the lights with an alarm system. You might want your closet lights to turn on if there's a burglar or the low lights if there's a fire. I don't currently have my system integrated to a panel.

I suppose I could see an "endgame" use as well of turning the lights on for a house showing with one button, but that's probably of trivial value.
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post #1357 of 1367 Old 02-23-2015, 03:59 PM
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Is it worth the expense to incorporate the ceiling fans into the RadioRa system? Do users find that they need remote control of their ceiling fans?

Or is it reasonable to save a little money and not incorporate the ceiling fans into the RadioRa2 system?
You have to look at how you use your fans now. If you use your fans a lot but rarely change speed, just use the RR2 Switch (you can change speed on the unit/chain directly). If you use them often and frequently change speed, definitely recommend the Speed control. I have the RR2 speed controls but mostly leave them on the same speed. I have a "catch-all" timeclock setting which shuts everything down at 2am, for us this works perfect because by then the fan is usually unnecessary. You may want something like that and set multiple times to gradually reduce speed, or exclude the fan. (~~~be sure the Fan Speed control is compatible with your fan, it works with most common fans but some of them now have proprietary controls and/or DC motors that may not be compatible~~~)

Sometimes my customers get bit by the bug and want to control everything, but the nice thing with RR2 is you can always add it later...

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post #1358 of 1367 Old 02-27-2015, 07:16 AM
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I don't think it's worth it. I use the Maestro occupancy sensor/switches for bathrooms, closet, laundry room, etc.
While I agree with you that maestro will work in closets, I think it makes more sense to upgrade to RR2 in the master bathroom - you can use it to setup morning/evening scenes, mood lighting, etc.
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post #1359 of 1367 Old 02-27-2015, 08:14 AM
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While I agree with you that maestro will work in closets, I think it makes more sense to upgrade to RR2 in the master bathroom - you can use it to setup morning/evening scenes, mood lighting, etc.
Was thinking more like powder rooms as my master bath has RR2 also...sorry for the confusion. Also, my kids/guest bathroom has a night light to go along with RR2 lighting for path assistance.
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post #1360 of 1367 Old 02-27-2015, 09:04 AM
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Was thinking more like powder rooms as my master bath has RR2 also...sorry for the confusion. Also, my kids/guest bathroom has a night light to go along with RR2 lighting for path assistance.
As I mentioned, the RA2 sensors can control different sets of lights for the occupancy & vacancy setting. I use it specifically in the powder room to control turning on the vanity light, but then also going back and turning off BOTH the vanity light AND the ceiling recessed lights. In another bath I also use it to turn the exhaust fan off, which is on a RA2 switch (regular switch, not a fan control as it's just a bath fan/light combo). You're not going to get this flexibility with sensors built into the switches (that and you don't get stuck with the switch line of sight).

For nightlights I've had tremendously good success with some "Mr. Beams MB532" battery operated ones. They take 3 C-cell batteries and last quite a long time (almost two years now). I used 3M command strip tapes for them to find the ideal placement.
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post #1361 of 1367 Old 02-27-2015, 09:09 AM
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While I agree with you that maestro will work in closets, I think it makes more sense to upgrade to RR2 in the master bathroom - you can use it to setup morning/evening scenes, mood lighting, etc.
I've yet to 'get into' scenes. I grasp the concept, but we really don't use the spaces in ways that have lent themselves to dedicated scenes on buttons. The dilemma is trying to gauge the right balance between direct control of various devices vs dedicating buttons to specific light levels and combinations. For a space like a theater, sure, it makes a lot of sense to have a button for a specific 'movie' mode, especially if it ties into triggering a retractable screen or other features. But for day-to-day, scenes don't make a lot of sense to me. At least not tied specifically to tiny little buttons on a wall switch. With a touchscreen and good graphics, yeah.

I am, however, interested in being able to experiment with using them as scenes on a tablet remote. Haven't fiddled much with it yet but iRule is my likely candidate for some of this.
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post #1362 of 1367 Old 02-27-2015, 09:22 AM
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Some of my nightlights predate RR2 as I had small kids and haven't felt the need to change. Just as an FYI, I have one of these full nightlights on the stairs and a half nightlight in the kids/guest bathroom. They continue to work well but RR2 would be nice too when the kids leave lights on in the bathroom.

http://www.legrand.us/electrical-out...x#.VPCZSC4-1Sk
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post #1363 of 1367 Old Yesterday, 10:45 AM
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Some of my nightlights predate RR2 as I had small kids and haven't felt the need to change. Just as an FYI, I have one of these full nightlights on the stairs and a half nightlight in the kids/guest bathroom. They continue to work well but RR2 would be nice too when the kids leave lights on in the bathroom.

http://www.legrand.us/electrical-out...x#.VPCZSC4-1Sk
The Legrand lights are good, and they have a lot of options, the LED tends to be on the Blue side though. Leviton also makes some and we prefer them and they do have a warmer light.
http://www.leviton.com/OA_HTML/Secti...minisite=10251

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post #1364 of 1367 Old Yesterday, 12:26 PM
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To be clear, I'm cross-posting this on Lutron's forums, but I thought I'd get different information here:

How different are RRD-6NA vs 6CL vs 10ND vs HxD-6ND? I know the HxD6ND obviously is a HomeWorks product, but I use it for comparison.

As an example, the link below says that the RRD-10ND, RRD-6CL, HxD-6ND LQRJ-WPM-6P should work, but no 6NA is listed. Is this deliberate, and why would a 6NA not work when a 6CL would? Would Lutron simply not have tested this unit or would they have tested it and found it to fail?

I have six of these BR30 that work well with a 6NA I've heard some say that the performance of the 6NA with dimming is just a bit better than for the 6CL, while I've heard others say the 10ND would be better.

6NA aside, when all the items show up in the LED tool, would someone always go for the lowest cost item that's on the list (provided you use the appropriate loading).

I would like to know the fundamentals of what's going on here. Thanks for any thoughts!

Lutron LED Tool TCP 12W BR30
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post #1365 of 1367 Old Today, 11:45 AM
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To be clear, I'm cross-posting this on Lutron's forums, but I thought I'd get different information here:

How different are RRD-6NA vs 6CL vs 10ND vs HxD-6ND? I know the HxD6ND obviously is a HomeWorks product, but I use it for comparison.

As an example, the link below says that the RRD-10ND, RRD-6CL, HxD-6ND LQRJ-WPM-6P should work, but no 6NA is listed. Is this deliberate, and why would a 6NA not work when a 6CL would? Would Lutron simply not have tested this unit or would they have tested it and found it to fail?

I have six of these BR30 that work well with a 6NA I've heard some say that the performance of the 6NA with dimming is just a bit better than for the 6CL, while I've heard others say the 10ND would be better.

6NA aside, when all the items show up in the LED tool, would someone always go for the lowest cost item that's on the list (provided you use the appropriate loading).

I would like to know the fundamentals of what's going on here. Thanks for any thoughts!

Lutron LED Tool TCP 12W BR30
Interesting, First off I would expect the Homeworks and the same RR2 part (e.g. 10ND) to treat the load the same.

Second, they probably didn't get a desirable or possibly inconsistent result(s) from the 6NA. If the 10ND preformed as well as stated, the 6NA is the same price. (No need to go further)

To that point, the 6CL also posted near perfect testing. I would recommend the 6CL over the 6NA (by a slight margin) from my own testing due to increased range on the 6CL(again, slight difference perceptually).

So ultimately I don't have a direct answer with support documentation. But If your load is supported I would use the 6CL. If your load is not listed or close the the min/max of the test report I would go 6NA or 10ND. Personally I like the 6NA because you can change the phase control and this helps with difficult LED's sometimes. The 10ND does not have that option, but fills in where you may need to handle more wattage than the 6CL or low minimum wattage. (Test reports are limited to 12 lamps/fixtures, so in this case the results are the same, but I would venture to guess the 10ND could handle closer to 250watts of LED)

One thing I don't like is the vague footnote on the 6CL (R3). So I called and this is in ref. to the current revision of the dimmer. They told me this is the only version on the 6CL (so why not R1?) but the foot note is there to differentiate if there becomes an updated version.

Their standard answer for almost all LED applications is use the chart (LED Matrix / Product Selections tool), personally he told me if it's not on any reports the 6NA is best bet.

Some side dialog while he was looking up info, and referring to my questions why the 6NA isn't reflected, confirms my suspicion above that it likely had less than desirable performance compared to the others. He could speak specifically on this combination but said they would not publish a "black list".

I know this from prior interactions with them on these issues, unless there is a favorable report or possible solution, you won't likely find a report card on that item, even though they probably have tested it.

FYI, TCP's in a little hot water legally right now, kind of an interesting story about the board suing the CEO, but we've been selling their LED lamps for few years and the performance has always been great.

Paul W.
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post #1366 of 1367 Old Today, 12:49 PM
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Paul, very insightful as always!

I wish Lutron would publish a black list so we know when they are sure it doesn't work well. In my own home I have a bunch of 6NAs and a bunch of 6Ds but no CLs.

Can anyone elaborate on how the 6CL works vs the 6NA? I understand the 6NA is phase adaptive, but so too must the 6CL perhaps only in automatic. I understand how reverse and forward phases work, but I'd love to understand how each dimmer operates differently
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post #1367 of 1367 Unread Today, 06:46 PM
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Has anyone had any issues with RRD-6NA controlling ELV loads? I have one in a kitchen that worked fine for about a month and then the dimmer started behaving oddly. If left on for a while, the dimmer intermittently becomes unresponsive. The ELV load is still powered on, but the dimmer won't respond to local or RF commands. Only pulling the FASS switch resets the dimmer so that it can be used again. The dimmer is fine for a while until this happens again. This does not happen while the load is turned off. I have verified the connections in the wall box, and all are good. The 6NA is connected to the neutral wire too. There is no companion dimmer on the circuit. I tried different phases of dimming on the adaptive dimmer and that didn't seem to make a difference in this sporadic problem. I am in the process of contacting Lutron technical support to see if they have any ideas. I wanted to see if anyone here has had similar issues. At the moment, I don't know if this is a hardware or software problem. The switch really did work fine for about a month. I don't know why I am having problems now.
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