Lutrons RadioRA2 - Page 58 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews

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Old 09-18-2016, 09:43 AM
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Let me just clarify a few things.

The Lutron APP's are now free, (they used to be paid).

There are 2 APP's for Radio Ra 2 (RR2)
Home Control + (for regular system users)
Lutron Connect (for people with the Connect Bridge device)

Home Control + allows your basic operation from your phones and tablets when connected to your wifi.
Home Control + offers a paid VPN service ($60/yr) for remote operation (remote meaning away from your home)

With the purchase of the Connect Bridge Device from Lutron you get free VPN and have to use the Lutron Connect APP.

If you have a 3rd party VPN and can access your network and network connected computers and devices remotely you should be able to access you RR2 system as well. Most 3rd party VPN's start around $5/mo. If you're not sure what a VPN is you may want to research it as it does have some security implications to your network.

Additionally the Lutron Connect Bridge device allows some local 3rd party integration's like they just announced for Sonos and Alexa(Echo). Homekit is asked for a lot and hopefully they will respond, but as of yet it does not. However you can pre-order the new Alexa Dot for about $50ea. I'll let you know how it works when mine arrives.

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Old 09-18-2016, 09:53 AM
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Lutrons RadioRA2

Interesting. I ponied up the $20 for Home+ and Homesense both. Oh well...

Thanks for the clarification on VPN. My router supports it. Have to figure out the setup.

Les

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Old 09-19-2016, 05:11 AM
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The Bridge is presently garbage. Indeed you can do the remote login where port forwarding or VPN are free on many routers, but the third-party compatibility is a joke. It makes the app see the device, but that's it. You currently can't do a time clock mode with the third-party devices or have it respond to physical buttons of any kind (i.e. Away more). The master repeater doesn't even know it exists.
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Old 09-19-2016, 04:42 PM
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If you haven't grabbed it yet, version 10.4 is out and apparently version 10.3 of the software was skipped.

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Old 10-05-2016, 01:33 PM
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10.5 is now available...
"Resolved issue where the main repeater may go into safe mode when an extracted project file is modified and transferred"

This should only effect those of you doing this and to do an extraction you need "Inclusive" software. most of you are doing your own programming so you shouldn't have to do an extraction if you have the project file saved!! Don't forget to back up and update soft/firmware occasionally!!

I just received another call from someone who had their system programmed years ago, although it has been working fine, she wants to add to it and the original programmer has skipped town. Since she was programmed pre-version 8 software, extraction isn't even possible, I have to re-program the entire system to add a few things... (if she had the original project file we could run it through older versions of the software to her up to date).

This posed an interesting conversation about who "owns" the program. There are mixed opinions here among colleagues and customers that as a programmer is it your intellectual property or since the home owner paid for this "service" should they own it?? Your thoughts?? Since extraction is now possible to "Inclusive" only programmers, Lutron has essentially created a hierarchy that basically says those privileged enough with "Inclusive" have the right to someone Else's work.

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Old 10-05-2016, 07:08 PM
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Originally Posted by spiwrx View Post
I just received another call from someone who had their system programmed years ago, although it has been working fine, she wants to add to it and the original programmer has skipped town. Since she was programmed pre-version 8 software, extraction isn't even possible, I have to re-program the entire system to add a few things... (if she had the original project file we could run it through older versions of the software to her up to date).

This posed an interesting conversation about who "owns" the program. There are mixed opinions here among colleagues and customers that as a programmer is it your intellectual property or since the home owner paid for this "service" should they own it?? Your thoughts?? Since extraction is now possible to "Inclusive" only programmers, Lutron has essentially created a hierarchy that basically says those privileged enough with "Inclusive" have the right to someone Else's work.
Bill for your time and move on. Getting into pissing matches over 'ownership' of a system configuration seems like a stupid waste of time and customer goodwill. It'd be one thing if it had actual programming code and custom-drawn artwork. But this is just a database of devices and settings. Sure, there's a few clever things you can do with scenes and schedules but, really? That ain't programming and it sure doesn't rise to the level of "intellectual property".
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Old 10-05-2016, 07:11 PM
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Originally Posted by spiwrx View Post
This should only effect those of you doing this and to do an extraction you need "Inclusive" software. most of you are doing your own programming so you shouldn't have to do an extraction if you have the project file saved!! Don't forget to back up and update soft/firmware occasionally!!
Good suggestions, I name all my configurations with a date in the filename. Makes it easier to sort them, especially when using the format of "Project Name-2016-10-05.ra2". The year-month-day format sorts properly in a text list.
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Old 10-10-2016, 10:42 AM
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Originally Posted by spiwrx View Post
Let me just clarify a few things.

The Lutron APP's are now free, (they used to be paid).

There are 2 APP's for Radio Ra 2 (RR2)
Home Control + (for regular system users)
Lutron Connect (for people with the Connect Bridge device)

Home Control + allows your basic operation from your phones and tablets when connected to your wifi.
Home Control + offers a paid VPN service ($60/yr) for remote operation (remote meaning away from your home)

With the purchase of the Connect Bridge Device from Lutron you get free VPN and have to use the Lutron Connect APP.

If you have a 3rd party VPN and can access your network and network connected computers and devices remotely you should be able to access you RR2 system as well. Most 3rd party VPN's start around $5/mo. If you're not sure what a VPN is you may want to research it as it does have some security implications to your network.

Additionally the Lutron Connect Bridge device allows some local 3rd party integration's like they just announced for Sonos and Alexa(Echo). Homekit is asked for a lot and hopefully they will respond, but as of yet it does not. However you can pre-order the new Alexa Dot for about $50ea. I'll let you know how it works when mine arrives.
This is some good stuff from Lutron.
Just wondering if I can use my existing RR2 setup with the new WINK Hub?
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Old 10-10-2016, 11:53 AM
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This is some good stuff from Lutron.
Just wondering if I can use my existing RR2 setup with the new WINK Hub?
No. Wink works with Caseta, not RR2.
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Old 10-10-2016, 02:30 PM
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Originally Posted by freeoscar View Post
No. Wink works with Caseta, not RR2.
Thanks for the reply but the announcement for Wink Hub 2, it includes support for Lutron clear connect:


http://www.lutron.com/en-US/resident...nectivity.aspx

Clear Connect RF Technology
Clear Connect RF Technology is Lutron’s latest advancement of our highly reliable RF technology that ensures seamless communication between our system components. Lutron RF products and systems operate on a quiet frequency band that is essentially free of interference, so your system won't be affected by a neighboring one. A dedicated network ensures communication between systems devices are reliably delivered and group commands ensure a smooth, simultaneous system response.

Clear Connect has been deployed in Lutron’s next-generation systems, including Caséta™ Wireless, Radio Powr Savr® sensors, GRAFIK Eye® QS, Sivoia® QS Wireless, and Radio RA® 2.
\


Just wonder the timeline, etc.

Last edited by shftup; 10-10-2016 at 02:32 PM. Reason: Typo error
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Old 10-11-2016, 07:46 AM
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Originally Posted by shftup View Post
Thanks for the reply but the announcement for Wink Hub 2, it includes support for Lutron clear connect:


http://www.lutron.com/en-US/resident...nectivity.aspx

Clear Connect RF Technology
Clear Connect RF Technology is Lutron’s latest advancement of our highly reliable RF technology that ensures seamless communication between our system components. Lutron RF products and systems operate on a quiet frequency band that is essentially free of interference, so your system won't be affected by a neighboring one. A dedicated network ensures communication between systems devices are reliably delivered and group commands ensure a smooth, simultaneous system response.

Clear Connect has been deployed in Lutron’s next-generation systems, including Caséta™ Wireless, Radio Powr Savr® sensors, GRAFIK Eye® QS, Sivoia® QS Wireless, and Radio RA® 2.
\


Just wonder the timeline, etc.
Yes, it supports ClearConnect, but only for the Caseta line. The original Wink hub does as well. RR2 is a professionally installed system, and thus far Lutron has shown no interest in expanding integration beyond other professionally installed systems such as Connect4. It is my belief that they will not expand to consumer products like Wink or Smartthings because that creates a complicated set of issues in terms of accountability when the product fails. Perhaps I am wrong, but thus far the only consumer product they have added are for Sonos and Echo, which are much simpler and limited. If I had to guess, I could see them adding HomeKit support at some point due to the simpler and more secure nature of that product. Also, from a business standpoint I would guess that the overwhelming majority of RR2 homeowners use iOS devices, whereas a tiny minority would care about Wink and Smartthings.
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Old 10-11-2016, 08:00 PM
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Do RR2 keypads have an actual IR input (like 2.5mm) in the back? Or is it just an 'eye' and you're supposed to tape a blaster over it?
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Old 10-18-2016, 08:01 AM
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Do RR2 keypads have an actual IR input (like 2.5mm) in the back? Or is it just an 'eye' and you're supposed to tape a blaster over it?
No connection just a position to mount (likely tape) a IR blaster/bugeye.
See "Rear View" in this document: http://www.lutron.com/TECHNICALDOCUM...B_20100518.PDF
It's simply a form in the mold of the backside of the dimmer to help locate it and a small hole to pass IR.

Exception to the rule are the Grafik Eye's do have a wired IR connection.

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Old 10-18-2016, 06:33 PM
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Originally Posted by spiwrx View Post
No connection just a position to mount (likely tape) a IR blaster/bugeye.
See "Rear View" in this document: http://www.lutron.com/TECHNICALDOCUM...B_20100518.PDF
It's simply a form in the mold of the backside of the dimmer to help locate it and a small hole to pass IR.

Exception to the rule are the Grafik Eye's do have a wired IR connection.
Thanks.

I'm just kind of trying to brainstorm ways to better incorporate IR in my Media Room. I have 6 loads (broken into 2 3-gang groups on either side of a stud). Currently all controlled with RA2 Dimmers and one Hybrid Keypad. I couldn't stuff another switch in there and go with a regular keypad (with IR) unless I retrofitted it above or below one of the 3 gangs, and pulled power from that box. Too messy looking and the dimmers are off to the side anyway and not a 'great' location for IR.

So I'm currently controlling it with an Insteon IR Receiver, which my computer picks up and then uses to trigger a Lutron scene. This... works... ok... Some Insteon reliability issues, but generally works. Direct IR control of a keypad would be a lot more reliable though. I COULD put an unengraved black keypad at the front of the room just below the screen or something, but the LEDs pretty much make it a non-starter. The rest of the AV equipment is in a rack in the back corner of the room, with an IR connection block distributing IR there from a receiver below the screen. If there was any kind of reliable way to install a keypad into my rack (especially a code-compliant way) that would probably be the best solution.

If anyone has any ideas, feel free to throw them at me!
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Old 10-19-2016, 09:37 AM
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Thanks.

I'm just kind of trying to brainstorm ways to better incorporate IR in my Media Room. I have 6 loads (broken into 2 3-gang groups on either side of a stud). Currently all controlled with RA2 Dimmers and one Hybrid Keypad. I couldn't stuff another switch in there and go with a regular keypad (with IR) unless I retrofitted it above or below one of the 3 gangs, and pulled power from that box. Too messy looking and the dimmers are off to the side anyway and not a 'great' location for IR.

So I'm currently controlling it with an Insteon IR Receiver, which my computer picks up and then uses to trigger a Lutron scene. This... works... ok... Some Insteon reliability issues, but generally works. Direct IR control of a keypad would be a lot more reliable though. I COULD put an unengraved black keypad at the front of the room just below the screen or something, but the LEDs pretty much make it a non-starter. The rest of the AV equipment is in a rack in the back corner of the room, with an IR connection block distributing IR there from a receiver below the screen. If there was any kind of reliable way to install a keypad into my rack (especially a code-compliant way) that would probably be the best solution.

If anyone has any ideas, feel free to throw them at me!
An easy solution would be a surface mount junction box in the rack, with a 600V-rated IR emitter inside the box, and a RA2 KP mounted in the jbox. Or, drill a small hole in the back of the junction box, and locate the IR emitter outside the box. IIRC, Lutron offered a rated emitter, but unsure.

There are other methods to control RA2 - RS232 and IP - but you would need to put the time in to learn how. Global Cache offers hardware and software for similar purposes, though I'm unsure about IR -> IP.

If you use another hub (e.g. Logitech, Logitech Remote Control -> RF -> Logitech hub -> IP (wifi) and IR (emitters)), perhaps it could communicate with the RA2 hub, via IP?

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Old 10-19-2016, 10:01 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Swancoat View Post
I'm just kind of trying to brainstorm ways to better incorporate IR in my Media Room.....
Is there an option to just get rid of the necessity of IR? Only way to get IR into the RR2 system (via Lutron devices) is regular Wall Keypad (RRD-Wxxxx-xx) or through a Grafik Eye. Even if you could get an IR emitter to an unrelated keypad in a different room you could do this. Unfortunately the Hybrid keypads do not have this feature.

Can you use a product like the Global Cache GC-100-6?

Or I quickly stumbled onto an IR to Telnet project like this:
http://forum.arduino.cc/index.php?topic=7599.0

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Old 10-19-2016, 01:44 PM
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I believe you would need to hardwire the rack, and keypad, though I previously believed the KPs could be powered through low voltage, and daisy-chaining - maybe that was just the older HomeWorks KPs.

One of the RA2 KPs has a front IR, and all have a rear IR receiver. In the rack, you could use the KP with the front IR receiver, and hide it behind a blank plate.

So, you would run power to the rack, and hardwire the junction box inside the rack. Mount the KP in the rack, use the front IR receiver.

I've never hardwired a rack. Does yours slide out, or is it on casters? Greenfield conduit might work, to hardwire a mobile rack, to a nearby wall plate.

I think mounting the keypad in the wall near the rack, and extending the emitter out of the rack to the wall KP, might be easier.

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Old 10-20-2016, 09:14 AM
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I believe you would need to hardwire the rack, and keypad, though I previously believed the KPs could be powered through low voltage
The regular wall keypads only have IR (not hybrid) and can be powered on Low Voltage. Lutron has an application note for this but they recommend an obscure 48v transformer, I have powered them off 24v sensor power output of the Grafik Eye before (long story), still working 3 years later. And their other (similar) Keypads in the past use a 12v power supply.

Application Note 406

http://www.lutron.com/PasswordProtec...%20keypads.pdf

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Old 10-20-2016, 12:01 PM
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Paul - that Application Note #406 shows the Sola/Hevi-Duty power supply SDP 1-48-100T is hardwired too.

Seems that if one is adding a 110V 3-prong pigtail to a device, that it should be the Lutron keypad directly, and not the power supply, inside a properly rated junction box.

I don't think Paul can recommend doing that, specifically, though.

Lutron may be able to make some recs about mounting a KP in a rack.

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Old 10-22-2016, 05:06 AM
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I could use some help:

my RR2 system consists of a main and 2 Aux repeaters: using RA 2 8.0

issue is with a RR-VCRX visor control receiver in the attached garage, right below my HT and the main repeater
every time I update the programming, the garage receiver shows error as being out of range: if I bring the receiver into the house near the main repeater it works: no error. So that is what I have to do every time I want to update the program. Once I update it I can put the receiver back in the garage and it works: accepts commands from the system (such as open the garage door from an iPad)

If I move one of the aux repeaters into the garage as a test, I still get the error

I tried moving the garage receiver around a bit but am constrained by wiring: the garage doors are steel and I guess that contributes to the problem

so it seems the RR-VCRX will only talk to the main repeater, and is just out of range: yet it is within range of the aux repeater

am I missing something here? is there a setting that would allow it to communicate with an aux repeater?
I have about 40 devices (keypads/controls/shades) and everything else works great except this garage receiver

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Old 10-22-2016, 05:51 AM
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Is the Aux repeater nearest the VCRX showing up in the software? If so, maybe you have a defective repeater or VCRX. Suggest you call Lutron.
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Old 10-22-2016, 08:27 AM
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Is the Aux repeater nearest the VCRX showing up in the software? If so, maybe you have a defective repeater or VCRX. Suggest you call Lutron.
figured out the aux repeaters were not daisy chained properly:
i.e. repeater 2 was closer to main repeater: repeater 1 was at far end of house

so simply swapping the repeaters fixed the issue: must have gotten swapped after some recent painting

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Old 10-24-2016, 08:42 AM
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Originally Posted by markrubin View Post
figured out the aux repeaters were not daisy chained properly:
i.e. repeater 2 was closer to main repeater: repeater 1 was at far end of house

so simply swapping the repeaters fixed the issue: must have gotten swapped after some recent painting
Interesting, I've never had that come up but around here most of the homes don't need an Aux. Are the Aux. Repeaters wired (MUX) or wireless?

I have had a similar issue with a 2 main repeater system in which you have to assign the Aux. Repeaters to the appropriate Main repeater depending on your layout. In my case I had a central Main (max'd out on devices) I added a secondary main to add some more devices to the rear of the home and then they added shades to the front of the home. Instead of moving all the devices around(on repeaters), I added the Aux. repeater physically to the front of the home and tied it (programming / wireless) to the rear main. The central main was left alone. I'm only mentioning in in-case this confused mess of a solution helps someone. The Aux. has to be out of range of the rear repeater, but assuming it's repeating through the central main and both mains are on the network it's been working fine and cleared all of my activation and transfer issues I was having.

On a side note: It's fairly common for the activation/transfer to fail with a range issue and operate just fine unless the distance is extreme. Trying successive transfers or "retry failed devices" usually will get through to them. If not temporarily moving the main repeater usually works just fine. I have this issue to a table top keypad running on batteries in my own home. If I wake it up (press a button) or plug it in (power supply) it works fine, but if I forget (typically do) I have to wake it up and resend. The "wake up" is just something I found that works for me, Lutron literature says these have to be plugged in for programming. But they do go to sleep to save battery if running on battery.
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Old 10-24-2016, 08:53 AM
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Paul

the 2 Aux repeaters are wireless: they otherwise work fine and I never knew about the daisy chain requirement: I called Lutron and the tech knew what the issue was right away

But sure enough the first Aux repeater (i.e. closest to the main) was showing up as number 2: the far one as number 1: as soon as I swapped them everything worked

btw: when I went into diagnostics it showed both aux repeaters, and the VCRX as not working properly: Lutron guy said as long as they seemed to be working ignore the diagnostic test results

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Old 10-24-2016, 12:17 PM
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btw: when I went into diagnostics it showed both aux repeaters, and the VCRX as not working properly: Lutron guy said as long as they seemed to be working ignore the diagnostic test results
I agree, I program for several contractors and homeowners and I see this a lot. Also, the diagnostic page will be slow to respond occasionally and even intermittent as well. Saying that I'm not sure it's really reliable and/or useful.

The only thing that is real important, is to test you transfers to these devices before you pack things up. If it's a keypad and you adjusted anything on any of the buttons from the previous program, it probably didn't update the device if it failed on transfer. Test the device (buttons) and try again, or move repeaters / devices as necessary & possible. Part of my programming tool bag includes a longer network (patch) cable and extension cord for this reason. Also, sometimes just playing with the antennae position improves it. I moved a repeater 12inches in a equipment room one time and all my problems went away.

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Old 10-24-2016, 12:27 PM
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So I got my Echo Dot last week and was playing with it all weekend. Now I'm checking daily for the RR2 10.6 update it's supposed to be on. It's a pretty cool little device and since I don't have to press a button on my phone or ipad to get Siri, I think I might like this better. Plus I don't always have my phone or tablet on me in the house. The built in speaker leaves a lot to be desired for streaming music but you can pair it to other speakers and control better audio options with it.

My kids however are driving Alexa nuts. Giving her math questions and trying to ask her all kinds of stuff. I expected it to fail with each of them yelling over each other trying to get answers to different questions, so far so good. I'm wondering if I get "Dot's" throughout the home though how I can limit them to "listening" to just the room there in with a couple of kids that seem really loud to me....

I'm impressed how little setup(basic operation) it was and how well it recognizes my voice. I tend mumble my wife says and I have a low voice naturally which Siri does not like.

For those of you playing with HomeKit, am I understanding this correctly, you would have to initiate(button press) Siri to use Homekit Verbally or can you set it up like Alexa/Echo so that it's just listening? Sorry I just haven't had anything Homekit compatible yet to test with...

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Old 10-24-2016, 12:42 PM
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^

I have 15 devices operating on Echo: I no longer have to look for the remote to turn my system on/off, lower/raise shades/lights/volume, etc, and it controls my Nest thermostats

I use the My Devices driver for RTI controls

so when I walk into my HT I can say: Echo turn Study on: it runs a macro that turns my HT on, lights off, and shades down, and politely says OK



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Old 10-24-2016, 06:30 PM
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I'm wondering if I get "Dot's" throughout the home though how I can limit them to "listening" to just the room there in with a couple of kids that seem really loud to me....
Unless something was added recently there's no mic sensitivity setting - I see other folks suggest (which is a good one!) giving the units different wake words ("Alexa" / "Amazon" / "Echo") to avoid the issue.

But this area is one that I suspect Amazon will need to deal with soon as they fully expect the "Echo per room" model - and they sell 6-packs! Hopefully they'll add a "zone" setting for each device so that you can initiate a command without having to specify so much.

"Alexa, turn on the lights" is a lot more natural than "Alexa, turn on the <room name> lights".

At the speed they're increasing the functionality - I don't think it will take long...

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Now I'm checking daily for the RR2 10.6 update it's supposed to be on.
I was glad to see when you posted that 10.5 was available - "Oh, good, the important update is up next!"

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Old 10-25-2016, 02:15 PM
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Unless something was added recently there's no mic sensitivity setting - I see other folks suggest (which is a good one!) giving the units different wake words ("Alexa" / "Amazon" / "Echo") to avoid the issue.

But this area is one that I suspect Amazon will need to deal with soon as they fully expect the "Echo per room" model - and they sell 6-packs! Hopefully they'll add a "zone" setting for each device so that you can initiate a command without having to specify so much.

"Alexa, turn on the lights" is a lot more natural than "Alexa, turn on the <room name> lights".

At the speed they're increasing the functionality - I don't think it will take long...



I was glad to see when you posted that 10.5 was available - "Oh, good, the important update is up next!"
But this area is one that I suspect Amazon will need to deal with soon as they fully expect the "Echo per room" model - and they sell 6-packs! Hopefully they'll add a "zone" setting for each device so that you can initiate a command without having to specify so much.


They announced ESP (Echo spatial perception) when they announced the gen 2 echo dot to deal with just this issue. It has rolled out to the Echo, but not yet to the dot's, though I imagine it will be very shortly.
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Old 10-25-2016, 02:43 PM
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They announced ESP (Echo spatial perception) when they announced the gen 2 echo dot to deal with just this issue. It has rolled out to the Echo, but not yet to the dot's, though I imagine it will be very shortly.
Is that just for the "multiple units hear the command", or actually dealing with the "command for this room only"?

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