Lutrons RadioRA2 - Page 66 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #1951 of 1958 Old 09-07-2017, 09:53 AM
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They already have Caseta Pro, & not yet a RR3. But a step between Caseta and RR2, with upgrade potential to full RR2. And Caseta will remain as their entry level system.

It looks like the marketing is just a push on ease of programming for someone that just want to gets going quickly without any training. A Push on some new Picos (new engraving options). And perhaps a new base model dimmer that might be slightly less expensive, but don't quote me on that yet....

Here is a brochure for Radio Ra 2 Select they just released

Paul W.
'Lutron Grafik Eye & Radio Ra Specialist - or anything Lutron'
Hanks Electrical Supply
www.hankselectric.net
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paul@hankselectric.net
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post #1952 of 1958 Old 09-07-2017, 10:52 AM
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Originally Posted by lleo_ View Post

previous RA2 devices not compatible, likely the old line will be left dead in few months and buyout offered to increase base on data collection. time to stock up on old devices, before supply becomes scarce.
This is just false. This page from Lutron clearly shows that Select uses the same dimmers/switches as Radio Ra2 does. If anything, a more widely available system, and just recently released, would indicate that the Radio Ra2 protocol is even more likely to be sustained.

http://www.lutron.com/en-US/pages/su...e=RA2%20Select

Select just doesn't use the Radio Ra2 keypads or a PC-connected main repeater, and offers in its stead a sort of souped up Connect Bridge along with an expanded range of Pico keypads (and one would suspect those new pico's could be added to a new or existing Ra2 system as well).

One interesting thing is that they seem to have expanded the integration to Logitech Harmony and Smartthings - I do wonder if that is only for Select or if an upgrade will add those integrations to the Ra2 Connect Bridge's as well - if so, that would be a nice addition (and depending on what smartthings can do perhaps that would allow for some conditionality.

Paul's link to the brochure didn't work for me, so I've added a direct link to the Lutron website where it can be found.

http://www.lutron.com/TechnicalDocum...t_Brochure.pdf
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post #1953 of 1958 Old 09-07-2017, 11:52 AM
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On life support? In the past 12 months they've added integration with Sonos, Homekit, Echo and shortly Google Home. the previous year they added the connect bridge as well as released the HNBRL series LED compatible hybrid keypads. Their Caseta line is widely lauded as being the most reliable of the consumer grade smart lighting systems, and is one of the better sellers in the field.
No, RR2 doesn't have conditional programming, which would be awesome, but they have always been very good about integration with both the DIY and pro level home control (control 4, crestron, etc.) and security (Omnipro, Honeywell, DSC, Elk) for those who value a more sophisticated system.
I think sticking to their knitting (i.e. the most reliable smart lighting systems with an incredible range of switches, dimmers, etc. to work with a huge variety of consumer and commercial lighting solutions, not to mention a huge range of switch designs and colors), while letting the integration experts (Crestron, etc.) do what they do best is a sound strategy.
What is it you would want them to do that they currently aren't and others are?
When Caseta was released it came at a time when not much was being done on the RadioRa2 side with the only real device I can remember being added is the fan control. Caseta was released with the Bridge while RadioRa2 initially didn't have the bridge. RadioRa2 finally got a Bridge, which I purchased only to find out a few months later that they didn't plan ahead with regards to Apple integration and so had to release a second RR2 Bridge leaving the initial purchases out in the cold. So my initial feelings regarding RadioRa2 being a second hand offering started way back then. They've also had a few different apps on the mobile software side for whatever reason. And I've lost functionality with the main RadioRa2 software as I used to be able to use a Pico remote to turn on/off my bathroom nightlight with the middle round button while using the on/off/up/down buttons for the main bedroom lights. Last time I upgraded, I found that functionality missing.

A friend bought a new house and was looking to add some basic lighting automation and after suggesting RadioRa2, he mentioned it was too expensive. So I looked at Caseta to see if I could recommend that but found that they had so few devices, primarily no in-wall traditional switches, that I couldn't even recommend Caseta.

I agree, Lutron has ClearConnect, which is rock-solid and something they've had for over a decade and I agree, it just plain works. But their marketing and segmentation is poor IN MY OPINION. To me Caseta isn't what it needs to be to compete in that space as most consumers aren't going to know enough to know how much better ClearConnect is than the other technologies, they're just going to see the cost and lack of device options. Radioa2 seems like its in the middle not getting much love.

And I must say, you really sound like you work for Lutron and can't see some of the missteps. If I'm wrong I apologize but you seem awfully defensive for being a general customer on a forum. I worked at Microsoft for over 10 years and I called a spade a spade. Microsoft made some great products that didn't get the appreciation they deserved but also made some stupid moves too. Maybe I'm expecting too much out of RadioRa2. I guess it is the product I purchased over 6-7 years ago and really hasn't changed too much, which is a good thing. But I guess being in technology and knowing what they could turn RadioRa2 into, I see missed opportunity that disappoints me. But I'll end by saying I think ClearConnect is one of the (if not the) best, most reliable lighting technologies on the market. Too bad market segmentation gets in the way of them making it even better.

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post #1954 of 1958 Old 09-08-2017, 07:47 AM
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I accept that my forecasting of the end of the original Radio RA2 was nothing but trolling, but Lutron deserves more than that for further fragmenting their product lines.
So now there is Caseta, Caseta PRO, Radio RA2, Radio RA2 Select, Homeworks QS, and Homeworks QS Lite and couple of other names I noted on their website.
I have to give it to Lutron that they know their offering is rock solid and as such 'divide and conquer' strategy will give them the biggest market share, and they are not engaging in pricewars with ZWave, Zigbee and others.
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post #1955 of 1958 Old 09-08-2017, 11:55 AM
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Originally Posted by dgage View Post
When Caseta was released it came at a time when not much was being done on the RadioRa2 side with the only real device I can remember being added is the fan control.
It is unlikely that any devices other than lighting will be released due to an inherent ClearConnect protocol limitation, i.e. unencrypted messaging. Hence, the games with intentional market fragmentation despite the fact that all the ClearConnect devices would be perfectly usable in Caseta, Caseta PRO, Radio RA2 if they were whitelisted there.
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post #1956 of 1958 Old 09-08-2017, 03:09 PM
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I accept that my forecasting of the end of the original Radio RA2 was nothing but trolling, but Lutron deserves more than that for further fragmenting their product lines.
So now there is Caseta, Caseta PRO, Radio RA2, Radio RA2 Select, Homeworks QS, and Homeworks QS Lite and couple of other names I noted on their website.
I have to give it to Lutron that they know their offering is rock solid and as such 'divide and conquer' strategy will give them the biggest market share, and they are not engaging in pricewars with ZWave, Zigbee and others.
I was just thinking with a RadioRa2 Select, it was even more fragmented for no consumer-focused reason and you just identified how much worse it is in reality than in my mind. Lutron has no standing for this many product lines. Ridiculous. I'll be moving in about 4 years and hoping there's another good option besides Lutron as I don't plan to buy into a company this screwed up. Unless Lutron cleans up this mess somehow but I'm not holding my breath.

@freeoscar - not trying to pick on you but I'd really like to know how you can respond to this sort of market fragmentation as anything other than a commercial mess with none other than Lutron themselves to blame.

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post #1957 of 1958 Old 09-11-2017, 10:02 AM
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@freeoscar - not trying to pick on you but I'd really like to know how you can respond to this sort of market fragmentation as anything other than a commercial mess with none other than Lutron themselves to blame.
Well, what is the 'right' level of fragmentation? BMW has a 1 series, 2 series, 3 series, 4 series, 5 series, 6 series, 7 series, X series, Z series, M series, I series, and I believe they also produce Mini Coopers, which themselves have several different lines. Is that too much? It's less than GM, so is it too few?

As a consumer, I only need 1, so I choose the most appropriate one for me. I also think there is basically 1 consumer line (Caseta) - you can (and I did) DiY RR2, but I'm guessing that's an extraordinarily small number of customers. True there are a host of integrator options, as mentioned above. Perhaps they have an issue with it, but I'm not a pro so I don't know. Perhaps they asked for many different lines because they felt certain potential customers fell through the cracks - I don't know. But them announcing RR Select doesn't negatively impact me or my system in any way - if anything I think the opposite- they added integration options (smartthings and Harmony), which I'm assuming will come my way (just like Alexa and Homekit migrated from Caseta to RR2). And if more people install the RR2 dimmers/switches, Lutron is more likely to sustain production.
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post #1958 of 1958 Old 09-11-2017, 01:11 PM
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Well, what is the 'right' level of fragmentation? BMW has a 1 series, 2 series, 3 series, 4 series, 5 series, 6 series, 7 series, X series, Z series, M series, I series, and I believe they also produce Mini Coopers, which themselves have several different lines. Is that too much? It's less than GM, so is it too few?

As a consumer, I only need 1, so I choose the most appropriate one for me. I also think there is basically 1 consumer line (Caseta) - you can (and I did) DiY RR2, but I'm guessing that's an extraordinarily small number of customers. True there are a host of integrator options, as mentioned above. Perhaps they have an issue with it, but I'm not a pro so I don't know. Perhaps they asked for many different lines because they felt certain potential customers fell through the cracks - I don't know. But them announcing RR Select doesn't negatively impact me or my system in any way - if anything I think the opposite- they added integration options (smartthings and Harmony), which I'm assuming will come my way (just like Alexa and Homekit migrated from Caseta to RR2). And if more people install the RR2 dimmers/switches, Lutron is more likely to sustain production.
Your example is one of a single choice purchased as a single item. With a lighting SYSTEM, it is the system aspect which is key. A gaming system would be much more poignant and the best gaming system is usually the one that has the best combination of games, accessories, and integrations.

We agree that technologically, Lutron has one of the best automation-enabled lighting systems on the market. And I agree that RadioRa2 is a great system with lots of choices. My only issue is the artificial segmentation they've brought into the situation that POTENTIALLY interferes with how much better RadioRa2 could be. It doesn't really matter now as I'm not switching and have my system largely built so anything additional is gravy. But I will say the segmentation will definitely make me research to find another lighting solution at my next house but even after doing that, I may still end up with RadioRa2.

But I'm glad you're happy with your system and Lutron. I am by no means unhappy with my system but I look at the artificial segmentation and wonder how much better could it be.

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