Lutron Maestro RF2 + Birdgog Dimmable LED Rope Light = Ruh Roh - AVS Forum
Forum Jump: 
Reply
 
Thread Tools
post #1 of 34 Old 03-14-2010, 06:30 PM - Thread Starter
AVS Club Gold
 
amillians's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: Bloom County
Posts: 4,822
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Experience can be a beyotch of a teacher sometimes...feel free to learn from my mistakes/pain, no charge.

Just in case anyone was wondering if they could achieve "off" using a Lutron Maestro RF2 dimmer (600W, but ganged with a second 1000W Maestro RF2) with 65' of Birddog LED rope light (blue, in my case), the answer is a big, fat NO.

Turning the dimmer to off doesn't turn the rope lights off, even though it's presenting probably about a 52 watt load, best guess (65' @ 0.8W/ft).

This SUCKS. I ordered 65' precisely because of the need to present a "big enough" load to achieve true off with this dimmer, based on feedback from others on this forum. I guess I guessed wrong here...

UPDATE: IT WORKS, YOU JUST NEED TO MAKE 100% SURE YOU HAVE THE RIGHT MODEL PICKED OUT AND THAT SAID MODEL'S LOWEST RANGE IS GREATER THAN THE LOAD PRESENTED BY YOUR ROPE LIGHT. IN MY CASE, THE MRF2-6ND-120-XX WORKED PERFECTLY, WHILE THE MRF2-600M-XX AND ITS ILK FAILED MISERABLY.

Alex doesn't live here anymore
amillians is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 34 Old 03-14-2010, 07:28 PM
Advanced Member
 
Chicagorep's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Round Lake, IL
Posts: 973
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Did you call Lutron Tech support about this? I can understand the LED not dimming but I never heard that the dimmer doesn't turn off. Also the Bird Dog website says to figure 5.5w per foot. What happens when you hook up a standard bulb to the dimmer?
Chicagorep is offline  
post #3 of 34 Old 03-16-2010, 11:23 AM
Member
 
dim4's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 43
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
There can be trouble with triac based dimming or switching of some LED products which can lead to flickering, failure to turn completely off and possible failure of the LED. This includes the Lutron R4U module.
dim4 is offline  
post #4 of 34 Old 03-16-2010, 12:23 PM
jcm
Advanced Member
 
jcm's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: Rhode Island
Posts: 653
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Lutron updates a list on their site of LED based light fixtures and compatibility testing of each with different Lutron dimming products. Its pretty darn handy.

jcmitch

http://www.lutron.com/CMS400/page.aspx?id=31717
jcm is offline  
post #5 of 34 Old 03-16-2010, 01:27 PM
jkv
Advanced Member
 
jkv's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: Duluth, GA. US
Posts: 649
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
is there a neutral in the box?

Riverside Cinemas
jkv is offline  
post #6 of 34 Old 03-16-2010, 08:09 PM
Member
 
joatmonjf's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 146
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
You could try one of those Lutron "Synthetic Minimum Loads" (LUT-LBX-CE-WH).
joatmonjf is offline  
post #7 of 34 Old 03-17-2010, 06:19 AM - Thread Starter
AVS Club Gold
 
amillians's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: Bloom County
Posts: 4,822
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
I'm not an electrician (the electrician wired in a simple switch, knowing that I would be replacing it with the Maestro that was on backorder), but it's a two gang box, with a neutral (ground wire, right?), with a Lutron MRF2-10D-120-WH (1000W dimmer) on the left linked to 10 x 45W halogen cans and a Lutron MRF2-600M-WH on the right linked (hardwired) to the Birddog LED rope light. Each dimmer is paired with its own Maestro MRF2-3BRL-L-BL (Pico) RF remote.

The cans operate as expected: fully dimmable, on/off, no issues.

The LED lighting not so much: definitely dimmable (no flickering), but it never fully turns off, and quite frankly still throws a decent amount of light when it's off. Per Birddog, this LED rope light is 0.8W/ft (their incandescent rope is 5.5W/ft).

I switched the hookups (putting the rope on the 1000W dimmer) and the same issue, but "off" was brighter. Cutting the rope from 65' down to 13' yielded similar results, but "off" was dimmer.

In the interest of netting a quick solution--having lights that won't turn off in a light-controlled room seems rather counter-productive--I have purchased traditional incandescent rope and plan to replace the LED rope. The original goal was semi-cool lighting without spending much coin; as life sometimes does, it threw me a curve ball.

Once the room is finished, I'll revisit this issue. Gracias.

Alex doesn't live here anymore
amillians is offline  
post #8 of 34 Old 03-17-2010, 06:54 AM
AVS Special Member
 
Neurorad's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Give a monkey a brain...
Posts: 5,111
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 12 Post(s)
Liked: 81
I bet with a little perseverence that you could come up with a solution for your special rope light. You gave up too quickly.

At the very least, you should have called Lutron Tech Support.

Edit - find out the specs on the LED driver, from Bird Dog, and then look at that Lutron LED website linked above by jcmitch.

Believe nothing, no matter where you read it, or who said it, no matter if I have said it, unless it agrees with your own reason and your own common sense. -Buddha

Give a monkey a brain and he'll swear he's the center of the universe. -Fishbone
Neurorad is offline  
post #9 of 34 Old 03-17-2010, 08:06 AM
AVS Special Member
 
herdfan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Boondocks
Posts: 2,828
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by amillians View Post

but it's a two gang box, with a neutral (ground wire, .......and a Lutron MRF2-600M-WH on the right linked (hardwired) to the Birddog LED rope light...

Per Birddog, this LED rope light is 0.8W/ft (their incandescent rope is 5.5W/ft).

From those model #'s, it doesn't seem like you are using the neutral. The way standard Lutron dimmers work is that they bleed a small amount of current through the dimmer to provide power for the dimmer. The dimmer expects to "see" a resistive load on its load leg. It is not seeing this load, so it bleeds power until it does. So current is hitting your LED lights even when off. Since they use so little power, they come on.

You might want to try a MRF2-6ND-120-WH which is a dimmer with a neutral. This dimmer allows the power it needs to operate to bleed back through the neutral, and not to the load.

Please do not send me PM's asking for software! You will not get it.
herdfan is offline  
post #10 of 34 Old 03-17-2010, 01:24 PM - Thread Starter
AVS Club Gold
 
amillians's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: Bloom County
Posts: 4,822
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Well, another life lesson: Home Depot blue incandescent rope light is awful. It's aqua/teal, and doesn't put out near as much light as the Birddog LED rope. Hell, the LED rope puts out more light in the "off" position than the HD incandescent blue puts out at max. Back that goes...

Thanks everyone for the input/help/motivating words.

Birddog customer service wasn't much help. They were very puzzled.

I'll call Lutron tech support to see if a MRF2-6ND-120-WH would solve the issue (thanks herdfan!). Also, dimming might be over-rated, so maybe the Maestro MRF2-6ANS-WH switch is the answer.

Lesson learned: electricity is complicated. And expensive it seems. Looks like I'll be adding the MRF2-600M-WH to my Electronic Hall of Shame.

Alex doesn't live here anymore
amillians is offline  
post #11 of 34 Old 03-17-2010, 03:45 PM
AVS Special Member
 
Neurorad's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Give a monkey a brain...
Posts: 5,111
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 12 Post(s)
Liked: 81
Lutron will know more about the Bird Dog LED driver than Bird Dog.

Believe nothing, no matter where you read it, or who said it, no matter if I have said it, unless it agrees with your own reason and your own common sense. -Buddha

Give a monkey a brain and he'll swear he's the center of the universe. -Fishbone
Neurorad is offline  
post #12 of 34 Old 03-17-2010, 05:03 PM
 
duvetyne's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Posts: 1,635
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 13
Is there a driver involved?
duvetyne is offline  
post #13 of 34 Old 03-17-2010, 05:29 PM
Advanced Member
 
Chicagorep's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Round Lake, IL
Posts: 973
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by Neurorad View Post

Lutron will know more about the Bird Dog LED driver than Bird Dog.

Unless Bird Dog or someone else has sent Lutron their unit for testing Lutron won't have a clue.
Chicagorep is offline  
post #14 of 34 Old 03-18-2010, 12:51 PM
AVS Special Member
 
herdfan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Boondocks
Posts: 2,828
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by Neurorad View Post

Lutron will know more about the Bird Dog LED driver than Bird Dog.

Quote:
Originally Posted by duvetyne View Post

Is there a driver involved?

From looking at their website, these seem to be very similar to LED Christmas lights.

Please do not send me PM's asking for software! You will not get it.
herdfan is offline  
post #15 of 34 Old 03-18-2010, 01:09 PM
 
duvetyne's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Posts: 1,635
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 13
Quote:
Originally Posted by herdfan View Post

From looking at their website, these seem to be very similar to LED Christmas lights.


That's what I'm seeing, a bunch of LEDs in series...no driver involved.
duvetyne is offline  
post #16 of 34 Old 03-18-2010, 03:46 PM
Member
 
dim4's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 43
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
LEDs are DC and all must have some kind of driver whether built into the fixture base, the cord or remotely located. With Christmas lights you can see the driver at the beginning of the run as either a small box or cylinder. With LED rope light the driver is in the cord seen as a small box or cylinder.
dim4 is offline  
post #17 of 34 Old 03-18-2010, 04:37 PM
 
duvetyne's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Posts: 1,635
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 13
Quote:


LEDs are DC and all must have some kind of driver whether built into the fixture base,

LEDs are diodes, no 'driver' is required.
Have a look at some xmas lights sometime, you'll see nothing but a bunch of lEDs in series, sometimes with a current limiting resistor, mostly without.
The xmas lights with the 'driver' are multifunction.
duvetyne is offline  
post #18 of 34 Old 03-18-2010, 08:25 PM
Member
 
dim4's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 43
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
http://www.ledropelightsandmore.com/...tructions.html

There must be an "interface" between AC voltage and the DC LEDs. Many in the industry are calling this interface a driver whether or not is is just a rectifier. I have LED Christmas lighting of different brands and have installed LED rope and they all have a lump in the cable where the rectifier/driver is. I'm not an engineer but all of the googled information shows this to be true.

Not all interfaces like being connected to a triac dimmer or switch whether they appear to work well at first or not. I'm seeing LED failures when on triac based switches with a "sense" current flowing through the LED rope lights.

Even neutral wire dimmers still let some current flow when off. To have a complete "off" you have to pull out the air gap switch at the bottom of the Lutron dimmer.
dim4 is offline  
post #19 of 34 Old 03-19-2010, 07:40 AM
 
duvetyne's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Posts: 1,635
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 13
Quote:


There must be an "interface" between AC voltage and the DC LEDs.

There probably should be, but the thousands of xmas lights sold every year don't have any kind of interface, and the rope light in question doesn't either.

Quote:


I'm not an engineer but all of the googled information shows this to be true.

I am an engineer and practical experience show this not to be true at all. The "lump" in the cable could simply be a fuse.

two wire triac based dimmers have a leakage current though the load, this current powers the timing circuit in the dimmer.
Dimmers with a neutral connection don't have this leakage current.
duvetyne is offline  
post #20 of 34 Old 03-19-2010, 05:51 PM
AVS Special Member
 
Anthony A.'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Canada EH?
Posts: 2,542
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2 Post(s)
Liked: 10
i had a similar problem with my lutron homeworks 4 setup when using led under counter lights. they were from home depot, and looked nice when on, but once off they would flicker every 5-10 seconds or so. i went back to the installer to see what was up and sure enough his demo room had crestron light modules with leds and the same thing happened. apparently, the lutron sends a very small voltage through the cable all the time to ping the keypads back and forth (or something along those lines), and would cause the led's to flicker when off. i ended up replacing them with small xenon's and they work perfectly. not the same cool light color, but they work and im happy at that.

Anthony A. is offline  
post #21 of 34 Old 03-19-2010, 08:20 PM
Member
 
dim4's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 43
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
duvetyne

The Lutron HomeWorks R4U dimming/switching module (minimum load 25 watts) and Maestro non neutral wire dimmers (minimum load 50 watts) have "sense" voltage that allow them to function. This can cause the LEDs to flicker or glow and can damage poorly designed LED systems. Using neutral wire dimmers with 10 watt minimum load and Maestro switches still have trickle current flowing to the load, according to Lutron, and may still be incompatible with LED loads not designed properly. Lutron has made their own driver that they sell to fixture manufacturers to give the best performance.

Correct me where I'm wrong. LEDs are basic semi conductor devices and require DC current to operate correctly. To use them on AC circuits will require coversion to DC by rectifier. If you look at the link I posted on the LED rope light and also click on the hi res pdf you will see that the LED rope light has a rectifier in the cord. This is a typical design for LED rope. The LEDs are arranged in sections, approximately 18" sections, in series so they don't need a transformer but still require DC current.
dim4 is offline  
post #22 of 34 Old 03-19-2010, 10:45 PM
AVS Special Member
 
Neurorad's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Give a monkey a brain...
Posts: 5,111
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 12 Post(s)
Liked: 81
A Lutron rep told me that Lutron is putting a lot of effort into controlling LED lights. She said that Lutron can usually find a solution, but talking to Lutron before spec'ing the LED is a good practice.

Believe nothing, no matter where you read it, or who said it, no matter if I have said it, unless it agrees with your own reason and your own common sense. -Buddha

Give a monkey a brain and he'll swear he's the center of the universe. -Fishbone
Neurorad is offline  
post #23 of 34 Old 03-20-2010, 12:42 AM
Member
 
joatmonjf's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 146
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
As said, LEDs are diodes, otherwise called rectifiers. They are DC semiconductor devices, but don't have to run on already rectified DC. As diodes, they do not conduct the negative portion of an AC signal when forward polarized. They drop a specific voltage (2.5 -3 volts typically) so a bunch of them strung together as in Christmas lights would add up to the total line voltage.
I've never had one in my hands to evaluate, but also as said, the bulge in the cable could be a fuse, or a current limiting device such as a resistor, since LEDs are also spec'd with a maximum current parameters.
Because of their nature as DC devices dropping a forward voltage, conventional incandescent dimmers cannot be used unless some sort of intelligent interface is used to track the chopped AC signal from the dimmer and cleanly produce a dimming effect in the LEDs with, probably, a pulse width modulated output.
About the Triac leakage though, it was my understanding that triacs naturally have a leakage current through them that will not let them shut completely off unless there is enough of a load (low impedance). A string of LEDs is a pretty high impedance, as are two-wire electronic fluorescent dimming ballasts. Those loads are tough to shut off, and the best solution is an air-gap relay in series between the conventional dimmer output and the load.
Crestron CLX modules will shut off the LEDS and fluorescents because each dimmer output has a relay at the ass end that opens at 0% dimming. Lutron modules will do it as well, as long as only one of the four outputs is used. However, they are still all incandescent dimmers, and still will not dim LEDs [non-interfaced] correctly.
No doubt that lighting control companies can develop LED dimmers, but Luminary companies try to develop LED lamps that can be used with all that's out there now. I suppose eventually there will be convention, and incandescent lamps will go the wayside of vacuum tubes, as will their controls.
For your shut off problem, you could try wiring a small incandescent lamp in parallel with your LEDs. Maybe even a 7 Watt nightlight hidden in a closet could do the trick. Best of luck.
joatmonjf is offline  
post #24 of 34 Old 03-20-2010, 09:45 AM
 
duvetyne's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Posts: 1,635
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 13
Quote:


The Lutron HomeWorks R4U dimming/switching module (minimum load 25 watts) and Maestro non neutral wire dimmers (minimum load 50 watts) have "sense" voltage that allow them to function.

Yes, as mentioned in my post...it's actually sense current though.

Quote:


Correct me where I'm wrong. LEDs are basic semi conductor devices and require DC current to operate correctly.

As previously mentioned, they're diodes. Do you know what a diode does?
If you'd actually look at any of the thousands of xmas lights and ropelights sold every year, you'll see that most do not have any rectifier in them.
BTW, rectified AC is pulsating DC, still not the best supply for an LED.
duvetyne is offline  
post #25 of 34 Old 03-20-2010, 08:07 PM
Member
 
joatmonjf's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 146
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
BTW, rectified AC is pulsating DC, still not the best supply for an LED.

Well, not really. A Half Wave forward rectified AC signal passes only the positive portion of the AC (and about -.7 volts of the negative portion). In the case of sinusoidal 60 Hz line voltage, the signal would look like the top portion of the wave, and then nothing during the negative portion, then the top portion again, and on, and on.
The signal for full wave rectification would be positive sinusoidal humps, one right after after another. In a DC power supply, full wave rectification is applied to a capacitor which charges up to the peak voltage of each hump, and then gives off the voltage as the hump tries to decay, effectively smoothing out the space between the the hump peaks for a flat DC level.

Pulsing DC is just that. It's a square wave.

Rethinking the LED string with AC applied, I can see placing a rectifier diode before the LEDs because while an LED will still drop drop its forward voltage, and not pass the negative portion, the reverse breakdown voltage parameter of LEDs is not very high. It might be advantageous the block the negative portion of the AC signal with a rectifier specified for line voltage rectification as a protection device.
joatmonjf is offline  
post #26 of 34 Old 03-21-2010, 04:24 PM - Thread Starter
AVS Club Gold
 
amillians's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: Bloom County
Posts: 4,822
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Random things to add, to interject real-world feedback into this most excellent hypothetical debate:

1. The Birddog LED rope light has a matchbox-sized thing after the 120V plug. Rectifier? Heck, I hardly know her!

2. It's always wise to put the plastic/rubber end cap on cut LED rope light. I picked up the tail end and shocked myself. Ouch.

3. Time breeds complacency. I'm already getting used to the idea of a low blue light source in my side soffits. Kind of like emergency exit lighting. It's almost...calming.

4. With about 39' of LED rope @ 0.8W/ft, I'm at 31W. Too little for the non-neutral Maestro dimmer I have, but the neutral version might be a go. Also, the idea to add another (incandescent) fixture on this outlet sounds intriguing, but I have limited options as to where to locate something (it would have to be in the room itself, so maybe halogens behind the screen or something?). I am calling Lutron tech support this week to see what they think about the neutral, synthetic load, move to just a Maestro RF2 switch, etc.

5. Acoustic caulk, when applied to the bottom feet of a ladder, will ruin a carpet in less than 5 seconds. That stuff is pure evil.

Alex doesn't live here anymore
amillians is offline  
post #27 of 34 Old 03-23-2010, 11:07 AM
 
duvetyne's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Posts: 1,635
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 13
Quote:
Well, not really. A Half Wave forward rectified AC signal passes only the positive portion of the AC (and about -.7 volts of the negative portion). In the case of sinusoidal 60 Hz line voltage, the signal would look like the top portion of the wave, and then nothing during the negative portion, then the top portion again, and on, and on.
The signal for full wave rectification would be positive sinusoidal humps, one right after after another. In a DC power supply, full wave rectification is applied to a capacitor which charges up to the peak voltage of each hump, and then gives off the voltage as the hump tries to decay, effectively smoothing out the space between the the hump peaks for a flat DC level.

Thanks for that....even though it's been a while since I got my EE degree, I still remember E101, Half/full wave linear supplies are no longer a mystery to me.


Quote:
Pulsing DC is just that. It's a square wave.

the output of a half or full wave rectifier is pulsating DC, it's not necessarily a square wave.

Quote:
the reverse breakdown voltage parameter of LEDs is not very high.

You seem to be forgetting that there are a bunch of them in series.
duvetyne is offline  
post #28 of 34 Old 03-24-2010, 05:39 AM
Member
 
joatmonjf's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 146
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Obviously, a description of what a rectified sine wave looks like was not for you.

Yeah, what was I thinking? Ideally, a rectified AC signal is pulsating DC regardless of how analog is the response of the output. In these days of digital thinking, an elementary concept was misplaced.

I'm having a little trouble intellectualizing on the PIV issue, though. If a diode does not conduct the negative portion of the AC, how can a string be thought to divide up the total negative potential? My understanding is that once you pass the "knee" in the diodes curve, there will be conduction, but even with current limiting is it desirable to do so?

My best guess is still that the bulge in a string of Christmas lights incorporates a rectifier, probably a bridge, plus the resistor for current limiting, and possibly a fuse, though that's probably in the plug as with standard strings of LV lamps.
joatmonjf is offline  
post #29 of 34 Old 04-03-2010, 11:48 AM - Thread Starter
AVS Club Gold
 
amillians's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: Bloom County
Posts: 4,822
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by herdfan View Post

You might want to try a MRF2-6ND-120-WH which is a dimmer with a neutral. This dimmer allows the power it needs to operate to bleed back through the neutral, and not to the load.

Ding, ding, ding. We have a winner!

Lutron tech support was "reasonably sure" that moving to a MRF2-6ND-120-XX would solve the trick, as the load was > 20W (after cutting/splicing/dicing, I ended up with about 39' of Birddog LED rope light, about 31W @ 0.8W/ft).

So, I bit the bullet, after not liking the results from the other options (e.g., adding incandescent rope light didn't look very good, adding halogen pucks washed out the impact of the rope lights, etc.), and a mere 2 weeks on special order, the MRF2-6ND-120-WH showed up yesterday.

It works. Full range dimmability, and it turns off.

The moral of the story: even if you think you have researched things, research more, or be willing to start a collection of slightly-used Lutron Maestro RF dimmers.

Alex doesn't live here anymore
amillians is offline  
post #30 of 34 Old 04-05-2010, 02:51 AM
Member
 
joatmonjf's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 146
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
This type of issue might be why Crestron doesn't offer lighting devices without Neutrals..
joatmonjf is offline  
Reply Home Automation



Forum Jump: 

Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off