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post #1 of 32 Old 09-19-2010, 08:47 PM - Thread Starter
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Hi everyone

I was looking into Control 4 home automation and when calling a delaer he stated that Savant Rosie was way better. After looking at some of their products the system does look very good. My question is does any have a ball park figure on a system like this installed. I just don't want to waste any dealers time to come to my home to give me quote if the system is no in my budget.

I know its a broad question but here is what i would like controlled so looking for just controlling system, programming and installation :
  1. 7.1 hometheater in family room
  2. LCD in Kitchen
  3. LCD in office
  4. LCD in 3 bedrooms
  5. future expandability
  6. 8 zone audio and HD video distributon
  7. lights
  8. garage
  9. security
  10. future upgrades


I assume HD video distribution is done by the Rosie 12. Is there a price list available for savant products. Anyone can give me a ballpark figure? Any help would be apprecitad

thanks
RSP
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post #2 of 32 Old 09-19-2010, 09:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by guju69 View Post

Hi everyone

I was looking into Control 4 home automation and when calling a delaer he stated that Savant Rosie was way better. . . . Anyone can give me a ballpark figure? Any help would be apprecitad

thanks
RSP

I am not a Savant dealer so I would not have any idea, but I think THIS GUY might know.
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post #3 of 32 Old 09-20-2010, 09:20 PM
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In general, Savant is at the top tier as far as expense goes. It can even more expensive than Crestron last time I checked. So if your budget is around Control4 (a mid-tier product), then Savant would require more funds.

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post #4 of 32 Old 09-23-2010, 11:29 AM
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well the quick answer is savant is in all likely hood will be more expensive than control 4 for what you have listed. But without getting into all the details it is really impossible to give any ball park pricing.

the real question is what is your budget? do you have all your equipment already? where are you located? the location is important as to installation costs (ie. labor rates, etc.)

with that info i might be able to give you a little direction on whether to get your dealer out to your house.

also about control 4 do you like?
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post #5 of 32 Old 09-23-2010, 06:48 PM
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Check out crestron prodigy too. New functionality just announced at cedia makes it Market leader IMHO. Have been holding off choosing the system to go with for a while, but it now works with full crestron range, has osd, hd matrix, hard button iPad controller and more. Can't wait!
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post #6 of 32 Old 09-23-2010, 11:52 PM
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Be cautious of anyone who tells you something else is 'way better'. What that usually translates to is 'We don't sell control4, we sell Savant'.

Both products will accomplish the goals you listed above. Designed/installed/programmed properly.. both products will offer you a great experience.

Don't start out shopping products. Don't believe anyone who says one product is better than the other. Both products have good dealers and bad dealers. Ask to tour an existing clients home. Peek behind the racks, test drive the touchpanel. Don't listen to the stories about what they can do. Go see for yourself.

Pick the company that knows how to do the system you are envisioning. Use the control system they are dealers for. The typical choices are Crestron Savant Control4 AMX. These are the top tier control systems. There are others like HAI and Elan G! and RTI and URC and Netstreams. Each of these products is widely used and target a specific market. You may find that Crestron Prodigy or Elan G! is the perfect fit at a much lower price point that Savant. You may find that Control4 is the right product after all.

Its not about marketing or sales guys telling you to buy what they have to sell. Its about your wish list and a product that can make it happen. There is no better way to determine who you are dealing with than to go and see one of their past projects.

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post #7 of 32 Old 09-25-2010, 04:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by guju69 View Post

Hi everyone

I was looking into Control 4 home automation and when calling a delaer he stated that Savant Rosie was way better. After looking at some of their products the system does look very good. My question is does any have a ball park figure on a system like this installed. I just don't want to waste any dealers time to come to my home to give me quote if the system is no in my budget.

I know its a broad question but here is what i would like controlled so looking for just controlling system, programming and installation :
  1. 7.1 hometheater in family room
  2. LCD in Kitchen
  3. LCD in office
  4. LCD in 3 bedrooms
  5. future expandability
  6. 8 zone audio and HD video distributon
  7. lights
  8. garage
  9. security
  10. future upgrades


I assume HD video distribution is done by the Rosie 12. Is there a price list available for savant products. Anyone can give me a ballpark figure? Any help would be apprecitad

thanks
RSP

I have been looking at Savant a bit too. Only the dealers have a price list and they usually don't give it out if it isn't part of an itemized installation quote.

Check out their website though as they state MSRP in their press releases for a lot of their stuff. Based on your list, some of the things I think you would need are:

1. ROSIE System 12 MSRP $14K MSRP (I think you need this for WHV)
2. Rosie OSD-1000 Control System MSRP $3,800 (not 100% sure you need this, functionality may be in System 12)
2. Keypads to control audio and/or lights $500 @ each MSRP
4. 4 iPads (they are discontinuing touch panels) @ $500 each
5. 4 IPad wall mounts @ $500 MSRP each

This does not include not include any of the sub-system components such as home theater, light switches, security system, garage, but those will all have to be compatible with the controller (which shouldn't be a problem for most stuff but a dealer will have their favorites). It also doesn't include any infrastructure improvements such as a rack, cable, cable drops, additional power circuits, cooling, etc.

Basically, for you spec'd out, my guesstimate is that you are looking at around $20-25K in hardware and then whatever they charge for installation and programming, which I would make a wild ass guess at and say it's another $10K, so maybe $30-$35K, but you could probably get some kind of discount off of those prices and get it all for under $30K.

I say this knowing I probably left out some key components and since I haven't got a quote yet I have no idea what, if any discounts, they give relative to MSRP. Dealers may be willing to discount the initial install knowing you'll need them for upgrades and components change programming in the future.

If you do get a quote please post it!

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post #8 of 32 Old 09-27-2010, 06:38 AM
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Bill is close on the price. Forgot about the cards that go into the system12. Roughly $1500ish each, and depend on the inputs/outputs that are necessary for your system. A system12 can carry ***up to*** 12 cards, each with a unique input/output configuration.
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post #9 of 32 Old 09-27-2010, 11:03 PM
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I got a quote this past spring for 4x4 HDMI matrix video distribution, 8 zones audio plus a separate 7.1 home theater with Totem speakers and Denon 7.1 AVR, 2 thermostats, 2 security panels, locks on three doors, Lutron RadioRA2 lighting, and full computer network, including all programming and labor, for $25k. No touchpads, 2 iPhones, I think. Can't remember.

Not awful for not having to lift a finger and including a lot of the AV equipment that most people already have. But not great. I didn't accept the bid.
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post #10 of 32 Old 10-02-2010, 02:08 PM
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For what it is worth, I apologize for not having model numbers, but at CEDIA in the Savant booth I was shown two entry level controllers (main brain) that both had Mac Mini's inside and was told that one did distributed audio only for $4000 and the other did distributed A/V for $8000.
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post #11 of 32 Old 10-03-2010, 09:07 AM
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I am interested in the Protege system, but only the control unit. I already own a few iPhones that can control the system. What does that run for? This is, so far with my research, the best product that integrates the whole mac platform into one and is super easy to operate.
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post #12 of 32 Old 10-03-2010, 09:26 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rockstar0215 View Post

I am interested in the Protege system, but only the control unit. I already own a few iPhones that can control the system. What does that run for? This is, so far with my research, the best product that integrates the whole mac platform into one and is super easy to operate.

Every control unit can be managed with iPhone and recently, many are starting to support Android too. So that shouldn't be deciding factor for you.

BTW, Savant charges $200 per copy for their iPhone app (used to be some crazy amount like $500). Crestron is $100 (I thought it was free but just checked and that is the price that shows up). Control4 seems free as is HomeLogic.

Other systems can also be easy to use. It all has to do with how the system is configured (although some like Control4 and to some configurations of Savant (i.e. TV driven GUI) are fixed in nature).

If you have love for a Mac inside your control unit, then Savant is the only choice.

The advantage of Savant is mostly for dealers who get a high-end system that is somewhat easier to configure than other high-end solutions like AMX/Crestron although they are also catching up. The easier config time may or may not be passed to you in the form of lower cost system. On the hardware side though, Savant tends to be more expensive because they put a Mac engine inside, rather than a low cost (and low power) control processor.

The biggest issue with Savant is one of longevity. Savant has not been able to penetrate the market as fast as they should have. That puts them at risk of pulling out of market at some point (our local distributor did just that last year). So even though I have been a fan of Savant in the past, I worry about recommending it to people.

For what you want to do, you can buy the control system from any company and use it with your iphone. The cost is pretty minimal even for high-end systems such as Crestron as the MSRP of their low-end control systems hovers around MSRP of $1,000.

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post #13 of 32 Old 10-03-2010, 09:52 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by amirm View Post

Every control unit can be managed with iPhone and recently, many are starting to support Android too. So that shouldn't be deciding factor for you.

BTW, Savant charges $200 per copy for their iPhone app (used to be some crazy amount like $500). Crestron is $100 (I thought it was free but just checked and that is the price that shows up). Control4 seems free as is HomeLogic.

Other systems can also be easy to use. It all has to do with how the system is configured (although some like Control4 and to some configurations of Savant (i.e. TV driven GUI) are fixed in nature).

If you have love for a Mac inside your control unit, then Savant is the only choice.

The advantage of Savant is mostly for dealers who get a high-end system that is somewhat easier to configure than other high-end solutions like AMX/Crestron although they are also catching up. The easier config time may or may not be passed to you in the form of lower cost system. On the hardware side though, Savant tends to be more expensive because they put a Mac engine inside, rather than a low cost (and low power) control processor.

The biggest issue with Savant is one of longevity. Savant has not been able to penetrate the market as fast as they should have. That puts them at risk of pulling out of market at some point (our local distributor did just that last year). So even though I have been a fan of Savant in the past, I worry about recommending it to people.

For what you want to do, you can buy the control system from any company and use it with your iphone. The cost is pretty minimal even for high-end systems such as Crestron as the MSRP of their low-end control systems hovers around MSRP of $1,000.

The thing that has me leaning to savant is the fact that it has a built in music server. I would be able to upload all my music on there and play a different thing in each room independently. As for the other features such as lighting and HVAC I do not care for as much yet but knowing the option is there for future upgrades.

Can you recommend a Creston system for a MSRP of $1,000 (that you spoke of but does not necessarily mean that is the max I am willing to spend) that you mentioned that has at least 4 zones and a built in music server that is controllable via iphone?

EDIT:

I've been snooping around and found the Creston Prodigy line the most ideal for my application. The only problem with that system is the lack of adding a home media server that lets me stream a different song to a different zone.
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post #14 of 32 Old 10-03-2010, 01:16 PM
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Ah, I thought your post was in support of OP which wanted whole house control.

For audio-only and itunes-only, Savant integration is very good as you say. That said, there are also Crestron solutions for controlling PC-based audio servers. See this third-party app: http://www.autonomic-controls.com/pr...e_crestron.php

I have not used it but seems to support 4 or more streams using their "PolyTune" feature. It nicely supports both iTunes and Media Center/WMP.

I am sure you know this but just in case, these are dealer based solutions and it is unlikely that anyone is going to sell you just the gear. So the total cost is well above the bare hardware costs.

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post #15 of 32 Old 10-03-2010, 01:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by amirm View Post

Ah, I thought your post was in support of OP which wanted whole house control.

For audio-only and itunes-only, Savant integration is very good as you say. That said, there are also Crestron solutions for controlling PC-based audio servers. See this third-party app: http://www.autonomic-controls.com/pr...e_crestron.php

I have not used it but seems to support 4 or more streams using their "PolyTune" feature. It nicely supports both iTunes and Media Center/WMP.

I am sure you know this but just in case, these are dealer based solutions and it is unlikely that anyone is going to sell you just the gear. So the total cost is well above the bare hardware costs.

Being a complete whole home automation package, the Savant can be used as an itunes server while later having the capability of controlling lights and temperature. My main emphasis for now is the audio streaming (with options on future lighting and temp). It appears no system can do what the savant can do in terms of streaming and complete integration.

What is the "street price" or average costs of a Protege ONLY with the music server but with the other options like lighting in mind for the future.
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post #16 of 32 Old 10-03-2010, 04:09 PM
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There is no such thing as "street price" with these products. They are almost always sold at MSRP which in case of Portege is $6,000. That is without programming.. Whoever sells it to you will have to program it (they are not allowed to give you the programming tools). That will probably be another $500 to $1,000. This assumes you are doing the hardware installation which again, few dealers will let you do.

You need amplification and of course speakers.

It is true that everything the dealer needs is in one package with Protege. But again, it is not clear that cost saving will be passed on to you. In neither case will you be the one putting the system together.

There is also no difference as far as control as the Crestron/AMX system will be fully capable of controlling other systems as needed.

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post #17 of 32 Old 10-03-2010, 04:25 PM
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I dint realize I needed an additional audio amplifier for this system. At that price, it should be integrated. But thank you for your help.
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post #18 of 32 Old 10-04-2010, 12:15 AM
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Crestron prodigy can stream multiroom audio and video from an iPod doc which u can link and sync to your music library. Essentially you would use a high capacity iPod as a music server.
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post #19 of 32 Old 10-07-2010, 09:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by amirm View Post

BTW, Savant charges $200 per copy for their iPhone app (used to be some crazy amount like $500). Crestron is $100 (I thought it was free but just checked and that is the price that shows up). Control4 seems free as is HomeLogic.

i believe Control4 has a cost also. it is just free to download but the integrator has to license it from their programming software. Control4 has their cost for this and i would think an integrator could add their own charge also. On top of that i think remote access is an annual fee for them.

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post #20 of 32 Old 10-08-2010, 08:34 AM
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There are many, many systems out there these days, Crestron, AMX, Savant, Control 4, HAI, Elan (new G system) the list gets longer and longer....

Probably the most expensive part of that system is going to be your HD matrix, are you going to go HDMI? Component? Also what are the lengths of the wire runs as well as what kind of wiring, this all comes into play. There are also new exciting network based systems that are almost infinitely expandable!

Elan is a fantastic solution for general mid level automation, Video as well. I do not believe they do HDMI but they have a component solution that also integrates audio and control into the same "brain". HAI is a good mid-low price point but the more trick you get with your system its harder to implement.

Prices generally go like this, Flexibility as well

Crestron, AMX, Savant
Control4
Elan
HAI

Feel free to email me if you want I do individual consulting and it sounds like you could use some help.

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post #21 of 32 Old 10-09-2010, 10:15 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Acamp76144 View Post

Crestron prodigy can stream multiroom audio and video from an iPod doc which u can link and sync to your music library. Essentially you would use a high capacity iPod as a music server.

I hadn't thought of that, but that's a great idea.

Right now I have the last generation 160GB AppleTV, which holds all my uncompressed music. I have some overflow on a 2TB drive that right now I stream from my Mac, but there's a way to hack AppleTV to recognize that (as well as open up several other possibilities). I just haven't done that hack yet.

Anyway, with the new simpler/smaller AppleTV on the market, you can get a pretty good deal on the old ones. Even if you just mirror them, that's probably a max of $200 spent on both of them, and that gives you two simultaneous music streams. The iPod solution also works, though if you're not compressing your music, you're not going to have the whole library available in the iPod.

What I'm trying to sort out right now is whether there's a way for Prodigy or any piece of its gear (including the iPod dock unit) to access the file structure of the AppleTV so that I don't need to use iTunes or my iPhone's remote app to choose songs. Right now, before the Prodigy install, I just run iTunes from my computer for whole-house audio, and that's nice enough, but once I have everything running through Prodigy and other devices, including a few wall plates, I'll want to be able to view the library without needing a 2nd application. Apparently there is one piece of software that yanks the data from iTunes and lets you see it from within your XPanel or Mobile Pro /Pro G. So we may go with that. Basically, my goal is for the AppleTV to be little more than a hard drive, rather than something that forces me to use the TV UI or iTunes. (In that case, I might as well just not even use it at all... which is another option. But since it's already there, I might as well try it).

Anyway, the point is that you have plenty of options. HTPCs or music servers are not at all expensive. No need to limit yourself to one that has it all built in if it's a much more expensive system. Depending on how much expansion you want to eventually do, it could be that Prodigy will handle everything you need, and come in at a MUCH lower price than Savant. In my case, it beat the Savant quote by a shocking amount. And I have the ability to control it from my Apple devices AND my Windows gear. I'm assuming Android won't be far behind either, so if I finally reach my limit with AT+T/iPhone and want to switch, I won't miss a beat.
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post #22 of 32 Old 10-09-2010, 10:35 AM
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Autonomic sells an AppleTV Crestron module...
http://autonomiccontrols.com/product...v_crestron.php
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post #23 of 32 Old 10-09-2010, 10:49 AM
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Yep, that's the one I had heard of. Thanks for the link.
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post #24 of 32 Old 06-14-2012, 06:28 PM
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Savant is trying to market itself as a Mac product. It does not have the same fine service as apple.There is a disconnect somewhere in the product line.Control 4 is a much better product and fair about price.I know people who have both.The control 4 people are more satisfied.
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post #25 of 32 Old 06-14-2012, 09:13 PM
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Quote:
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Savant is trying to market itself as a Mac product. It does not have the same fine service as apple.There is a disconnect somewhere in the product line.Control 4 is a much better product and fair about price.I know people who have both.The control 4 people are more satisfied.
You know people who have both??? Really? Why would someone have both?

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post #26 of 32 Old 06-15-2012, 03:46 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by amirm View Post

You know people who have both??? Really? Why would someone have both?

More than 1 house?

The idea though that Savant is somehow inferior to C4 and for the reasons he gives is just Silly.
Clearly only those not familiar with Savant post this kind of comment about it?

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post #27 of 32 Old 06-15-2012, 10:13 AM
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You do realize you're arguing in an 18-month old thread, right?

Gonna take a wild guess and say the OP has moved on since then...

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post #28 of 32 Old 06-15-2012, 02:50 PM
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Yes I realized it but was responding to someone from yesterday I think?

So?
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post #29 of 32 Old 06-16-2012, 01:12 AM
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Sorry, I was responding to AVWorld, who resurrected the thread. I should have said "y'all", then it would have been clear wink.gif

(but your usernames are so close, honestly thought both posts were from the same user)

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post #30 of 32 Old 08-27-2012, 06:31 PM
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Hello everybody! I am a designer at an integration firm and I like what I have read in this thread. Debate about Home Automation systems kick major technology butt!!! I would say that almost everything I read is right. Savant is expensive that's a fact. If you are a major Apple fan and can afford it Savant is the way to go. If you are just a normal person then, in my mind, Control 4 is the way to go. I'm not saying either system is better or worse than the other. But C4 started a few years ago and has seized up a huge part of the market. In addition of that Lutron lighting control products are now being sold at places like Best Buy, Menards and other big chains like that. This makes it easy to add products to your system. With the ZigBee wireless mesh network most of your system talks to each other with no additional wires to run which saves on some cash. The main processor the HC-800 costs around 800 to 900 and is all you need to run a decent system. The C4 V2-16, 16 zone audio matrix switcher is about 2000 and provides very quality whole house audio distribution at a fair price. If you find good amp and speakers for the right price point, you could get your audio system for somewhere around 4 to 6 grand depending on what kind of receiver you go with. Video is a little more pricey. HDMI matrix switches and the baluns to distribute the signal are expensive not counting the display and mount prices. The number for video will vary so I'm not going to comment. For control a 7 in. touch panel will run around 500 and the price to add smart phone control is not outrageous so you can do a decent amount of control for around 1000. Off the top of my head to add a Control 4 setup to that guys house I would say around 15 to 20 grand installed with HVAC and security control. I'm fairly new to the industry and would appreciate any feed back on my diagnosis. Thank you for reading...
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