Lutron QS Wireless Shade /Somfy/Hunter Douglas Quote - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 46 Old 11-11-2010, 06:14 PM - Thread Starter
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I have a rather large window (117x59) and am looking for a black out shade. Contacted a local vendor who does both Lutron and Somfy. The Lutron set up would be close to $3 grand.

Shade $1800 - Power Supply $198 - remote - $103 and Radio Ra Repeater $499


Labor is 2 hours ($220) and 1 hr programming ($125).

Is this right? Labor seems kind of high. Lawyers and CPA's don't even charge this much.

Somfy set up would be about $1750, and the Hunter Douglas would be $1300.

Is their anything Lutron can do, that I wouldn't be able to do in the future with Somfy?
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post #2 of 46 Old 11-11-2010, 07:41 PM
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what warranty is offered for each?

I dunno, Lutron is better quality...but how much better?

I think the labor and programming sound OK, for something for me. You can prob find someone to install the same equipment for $100 cheaper, but I want the guy who has done this 100 times before, and is 'detail oriented'. I think one has to pay more for someone like that. I'm not saying that this guy will be obsessive about doing a good job, but someone who is would charge this much. Ask for references?

But then again, it's just a single shade. How hard could it be to install correctly?
It needs to have great fitment, for a black-out shade.

Search for Radio RA2 threads, and check out the Lutron RA2 website, see what there is to have in the lighting category. I'm installing RA2 in my house for many reasons.

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post #3 of 46 Old 11-12-2010, 03:59 AM
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i just got a quote for automated shades i my house. the quote you got for lutron sounds about right, but you need to realize you are getting a radiora2 system basically. the shade itself should be about 2k, the rest i'm not sure you need or want, unless you will automate other elements in your house.
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post #4 of 46 Old 11-12-2010, 04:01 AM
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by the way is that quote for a battery-powered or wired shade? does anyone have battery-powered lutron shades? can anyone give me feedback about them? to install the shades wired in my house will require a bit more electrical work than originally thought. i am rethinking the battery-powered solution.
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post #5 of 46 Old 11-12-2010, 07:30 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by abaazov View Post

by the way is that quote for a battery-powered or wired shade? does anyone have battery-powered lutron shades? can anyone give me feedback about them? to install the shades wired in my house will require a bit more electrical work than originally thought. i am rethinking the battery-powered solution.
amnon

Lutron does not have battery powered shades, all their product operate on 12/24vac.
You may want to look at Draper, just as quite as Lutron, same fabric and at 30-40% less. Don't waste your time on battery powered products.
Lutron is king of the hill when it comes to price.
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post #6 of 46 Old 11-12-2010, 08:46 AM
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Originally Posted by Chicagorep View Post

Lutron does not have battery powered shades, all their product operate on 12/24vac.
You may want to look at Draper, just as quite as Lutron, same fabric and at 30-40% less.

Robert can Draper be integrated in a lutron radiora2 system?
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post #7 of 46 Old 11-12-2010, 08:56 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by abaazov View Post

i just got a quote for automated shades i my house. the quote you got for lutron sounds about right, but you need to realize you are getting a radiora2 system basically. the shade itself should be about 2k, the rest i'm not sure you need or want, unless you will automate other elements in your house.
amnon

I am interested in lighting and perhaps heating control. So perhaps spending the little extra money will give more options in the future. They said the dimmers were $100 each. What is a reasonable price for programming? Again, $100+ per hour is a lot to pay for labor, especially is this economy.
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post #8 of 46 Old 11-12-2010, 09:26 AM
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QS wireless shades do not need a Ra2 repeater if it's 1 stand alone shade not integrated into a Ra2 whole home system. They can be controlled from a single Pico controller (most likely the remote on your estimate) for considerably less.

If you plan on adding dimmers, etc. later might as well install the main repeater now.

As for the question of whether or not its worth the price tag; if you don't mind the sound of a garage door going up and down when raising or lowering go for the Hunter or Somfy. They are seriously this loud and annoying.
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post #9 of 46 Old 11-12-2010, 09:54 AM
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When I saw, and heard (or didn't hear), a display of the Lutron shade, I was sold.

Now I just need to convince the wife.

Believe nothing, no matter where you read it, or who said it, no matter if I have said it, unless it agrees with your own reason and your own common sense. -Buddha

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post #10 of 46 Old 11-12-2010, 11:29 AM
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I'd go the Lutron route. If you want to do lighting control in the future, it'll be a bit easier to sell the wife on the cost if you've already got the repeater. Also, to integrate Somfy or Hunter Douglas with your lighting control in the future, you'd need another controller like HAI or Elk. RA2 is a stand-alone product. They're working on implementing HVAC control, so the needs you laid out can be satisfied by RA2 in the future, without dragging Elk, HAI, or some software based controller in.
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post #11 of 46 Old 11-12-2010, 12:08 PM - Thread Starter
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I'd go the Lutron route. If you want to do lighting control in the future, it'll be a bit easier to sell the wife on the cost if you've already got the repeater. Also, to integrate Somfy or Hunter Douglas with your lighting control in the future, you'd need another controller like HAI or Elk. RA2 is a stand-alone product. They're working on implementing HVAC control, so the needs you laid out can be satisfied by RA2 in the future, without dragging Elk, HAI, or some software based controller in.

So the Hunter Douglas blinds can be controlled with software? My bro lives up in the mountains and he just installed 4 in his living room. He'd like to have the blinds go up and down on timers to let sun in during the day, and as it gets dark go down to keep in the heat. What would his best software option be?

As for me, I am leaning towards the Lutron because of the lighting controls. i will go in and see a demo which will probably seal the deal for me.
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post #12 of 46 Old 11-12-2010, 03:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GoLaLakers View Post

I am interested in lighting and perhaps heating control. So perhaps spending the little extra money will give more options in the future. They said the dimmers were $100 each. What is a reasonable price for programming? Again, $100+ per hour is a lot to pay for labor, especially is this economy.

I don't know what he charged for programming, the quote is complete. But to give you an idea, for 11 shades the price, installed, was 22k. It is another 5k-7k for radiora2 installation. The dimmers are about $100 each yes, bu then there are keypads, which are more expensive, and allow you to control multiple components (lights, shades, etc) with the click of one button. In my house, 4500sq.ft. with basement, we would install 5 keypads, the rest would be dimmers.
The lutron shades truly are silent, and compared to somfy it is remarkable, but it is expensive. It basically comes out to $1500-$2000 per shade. Not cheap.
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post #13 of 46 Old 11-12-2010, 03:15 PM
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IIs this right? Labor seems kind of high. Lawyers and CPA's don't even charge this much.

I don't know a lawyer or a CPA that is anywhere near 110/Hr.
The nat. avg. billing rate for a lawyer is $ 262/hrm while CPA's are billing at 160 up to 230 on avg. depending on if they are account managers (160) or partners (230).

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post #14 of 46 Old 11-12-2010, 06:13 PM - Thread Starter
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I don't know a lawyer or a CPA that is anywhere near 110/Hr.
The nat. avg. billing rate for a lawyer is $ 262/hrm while CPA's are billing at 160 up to 230 on avg. depending on if they are account managers (160) or partners (230).

Wow, my BRO is a CPA so I better tell him to raise his rates.
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post #15 of 46 Old 11-12-2010, 07:07 PM
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I was talking to a Hunter rep the other day and he said they have a (or coming out with) integration interface piece that is IR controllable for 3rd party control of their shades. She didn't know any other details.
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post #16 of 46 Old 11-14-2010, 02:47 AM
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Ok let me start of by saying the quote is about right for a window that size. The wireless is the control, yes you can do Pico if you want to save money right off the bat. There is no battery roller shading system that you "should" use for a shade this size.

You can get roller shade that utilizes a Somfy Sonesse motor if you want a quiet motor and a lot less cost. They are rated at around 44db. They are a hair louder than the Lutron Sivoia EDU.

As far as interfacing with a RA2 system ANY shading system can be made to work with a RA2 system. Obviously the QS Wireless shades would be the easiest and if you are planning on adding more shades the most cost effective way to go in the long run.

Did you get your quote from a window coverings company or an A/V company? Just curious. I'm guessing an A/V company.
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post #17 of 46 Old 11-14-2010, 05:24 AM
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As far as interfacing with a RA2 system ANY shading system can be made to work with a RA2 system. Obviously the QS Wireless shades would be the easiest and if you are planning on adding more shades the most cost effective way to go in the long run.

Is it complicated from a programming point of view? And is it a problem if say you have Somfy shades downstairs and Lutron shades upstairs?
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post #18 of 46 Old 11-14-2010, 02:23 PM
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I to me it is not complicated but if you don't know what you are doing it might be. It is just additional parts and understanding the programming needed to get them to function as you want.
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post #19 of 46 Old 11-17-2010, 01:03 PM
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I to me it is not complicated but if you don't know what you are doing it might be. It is just additional parts and understanding the programming needed to get them to function as you want.

I just spoke with the person who gave me the lutron ra2/shades quote. He says it is not possible to make the somfy shades work with Ra2. Can you give me some more info about this?
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post #20 of 46 Old 11-23-2010, 04:22 PM
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I install a lot of mecho (somfy) and lutron shades. There is no comparison between the two.

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post #21 of 46 Old 11-23-2010, 04:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by abaazov View Post

I just spoke with the person who gave me the lutron ra2/shades quote. He says it is not possible to make the somfy shades work with Ra2. Can you give me some more info about this?
Amnon

Somfy operates of a contact closure or you can use the dry contact interface for somfy rts motors You can use a Ra vcrx to toggle the shades.

Sounds like your ra guy shouldn't be talking in absolutes. Not possible = I don't know how

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post #22 of 46 Old 11-24-2010, 05:31 AM
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IIRC, Somfy's manuals are online. Search for RTS.

RA and RA2 manuals are also online.

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post #23 of 46 Old 11-24-2010, 07:37 AM
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[quote=Fiasco;19536772]I install a lot of mecho (somfy) and lutron shades. There is no comparison between the two.[
When you say no comarison you mean lutron is that much better?
What about the sonnese motors?
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post #24 of 46 Old 03-05-2011, 01:18 PM - Thread Starter
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Well, I am ready to order the roller shade. Attached is a picture of the glare I want to reduce when watching TV (I am getting a new TV this spring as well). Do I need a full black out shade, or will one of the 1%, 3%, 5% or 10% shades reduce the glare enough to watch TV during the day?
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post #25 of 46 Old 03-05-2011, 06:05 PM
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Get a quote from a Lutron installer for each, blackout vs. dark shade.

I think the blackout shades have a track at the sides of the windows, but I guess it depends on the manufacturer. Depends on whether you want that extra track visible.

Find a Lutron installer that has a demo room, where you can see and hear the Lutron shades in action.

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post #26 of 46 Old 03-07-2011, 01:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GoLaLakers View Post

Well, I am ready to order the roller shade. Attached is a picture of the glare I want to reduce when watching TV (I am getting a new TV this spring as well). Do I need a full black out shade, or will one of the 1%, 3%, 5% or 10% shades reduce the glare enough to watch TV during the day?

I work for a major shading manufacturer. Typically Blackout shades are overkill for just watching TV (or even in a conference room with projector). Blackout shades are used in Home Theatre, but could be reserved for bedrooms where complete Blackout is a must. All fabrics are a little different in how they look with different openesses. For solar fabrics we don't go any higher than a 5% for areas with a lot of exposure (on water/beach, desert areas, etc), but typically use a 3% because there is a view that needs to be preserved. Darker colored fabrics will absorb the glare, darken the room, and allow you to see through them to the view during the day. Lighter colored fabrics create glare in the window, lighting the room, making it difficult to see through during the day. A 1% dark color is really room darkening without blacking out completely, you'll just get uneven specks of light on the shade and won't be able to see through it unless you are in just the right spot. 3% and 5% dark colors can still darken quite a bit, but allow you to see the view during the day. Sidechannels should only be used if you are getting a direct beam of sunshine coming through one of the side light gaps, otherwise this ia just diffused/reflected light and is usually fine (unless you want total B/O).

An installed general price for a motorized shade installed should be about $1000 per window. Lutron's prices are considerably more, esp with QS and RadioRA2 (some parts are "cheap", but most have increased in price). They do have a great product, but there are plenty of ways to skin this cat. Especially if you just have one shade, or you are only planning on controlling only a few lights, etc. I would ask yourself if your house or budget warrants Lutron shades and lighting controls, if you need a solution that does the exact same thing (albiet not as quiet, but still quiet) there are options from Somfy and HD that can be intergrated with lighting controls easily. Radio RA2 is a nice offering and it seems like a lower priced option, but it is still expensive by comparison. Also be aware that even a Lutron QED/QS motor can be noisy, and a Somfy motor can be made more quiet, careful installation and what you are mounting to are critical to a quiet system.
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post #27 of 46 Old 03-07-2011, 07:50 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
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I work for a major shading manufacturer. Typically Blackout shades are overkill for just watching TV (or even in a conference room with projector). Blackout shades are used in Home Theatre, but could be reserved for bedrooms where complete Blackout is a must. All fabrics are a little different in how they look with different openesses. For solar fabrics we don't go any higher than a 5% for areas with a lot of exposure (on water/beach, desert areas, etc), but typically use a 3% because there is a view that needs to be preserved. Darker colored fabrics will absorb the glare, darken the room, and allow you to see through them to the view during the day. Lighter colored fabrics create glare in the window, lighting the room, making it difficult to see through during the day. A 1% dark color is really room darkening without blacking out completely, you'll just get uneven specks of light on the shade and won't be able to see through it unless you are in just the right spot. 3% and 5% dark colors can still darken quite a bit, but allow you to see the view during the day. Sidechannels should only be used if you are getting a direct beam of sunshine coming through one of the side light gaps, otherwise this ia just diffused/reflected light and is usually fine (unless you want total B/O).

An installed general price for a motorized shade installed should be about $1000 per window. Lutron's prices are considerably more, esp with QS and RadioRA2 (some parts are "cheap", but most have increased in price). They do have a great product, but there are plenty of ways to skin this cat. Especially if you just have one shade, or you are only planning on controlling only a few lights, etc. I would ask yourself if your house or budget warrants Lutron shades and lighting controls, if you need a solution that does the exact same thing (albiet not as quiet, but still quiet) there are options from Somfy and HD that can be intergrated with lighting controls easily. Radio RA2 is a nice offering and it seems like a lower priced option, but it is still expensive by comparison. Also be aware that even a Lutron QED/QS motor can be noisy, and a Somfy motor can be made more quiet, careful installation and what you are mounting to are critical to a quiet system.

Thanks for all of the details. This is exactly the information I was looking for. The window I have does not really get direct sunlight. It's just the glare that I get when the sun is directly overhead, which makes TV viewing between 11am and 4pm difficult, which is a real pain when it comes time for the NBA playoffs. My Lakers are always on a 12:30. The view is only of the back yard, I just don't want to be in a completely black room when watching a game at noon. I am thinking a 3%-5% shade will probably do the trick. So dark brown/reddish colors would reduce glare? Also, do these shading solutions do anything to keep the room cool or warm during the seasons, or are they strictly lightning control and privacy?

I am going into the show room this week to compare the Somfy options with Lutron. What kind of control options do I have with Somfy? Can I use Ipad/Iphone to control the shade? If I eventually upgrade to Control 4 or other home automation solution, can the Somfy integrate easily? It's only 1 window for now, but we might eventually expand into some of the bedrooms.
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post #28 of 46 Old 03-08-2011, 12:47 PM
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by the way is that quote for a battery-powered or wired shade? does anyone have battery-powered lutron shades? can anyone give me feedback about them? to install the shades wired in my house will require a bit more electrical work than originally thought. i am rethinking the battery-powered solution.
amnon

Lutron doesn't make battery powered shades. QS Wireless is the new line from Lutron in Shading solutions. All you need is a 120 volt recp. close by in the pocket if you are recessing the shade. Yes you will need a RR-Main-WH repeater to set up the system and a remote to operate it. Lutron is money!
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post #29 of 46 Old 03-08-2011, 01:00 PM
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I just spoke with the person who gave me the lutron ra2/shades quote. He says it is not possible to make the somfy shades work with Ra2. Can you give me some more info about this?
Amnon

I haven't had a need to control somfy shades with RadioRa2. i have done it with Homeworks using a CCI/CCO contact closure input/output board. You can do this same application using RadioRa2 using the RR-VCRX controler. It is limited with the inputs and outputs though. Good Luck!
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post #30 of 46 Old 03-08-2011, 02:09 PM
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The view is only of the back yard, I just don't want to be in a completely black room when watching a game at noon. I am thinking a 3%-5% shade will probably do the trick. So dark brown/reddish colors would reduce glare? Also, do these shading solutions do anything to keep the room cool or warm during the seasons, or are they strictly lightning control and privacy?.
Darker fabrics will reduce glare and allow you to see through them better (kind of like sunglasses) and because the darker color is absorbing the light it helps to darken the room even though the view is preserved. If you get a lot of direct sun (which you don't) they make performance fabrics with aluminized reflective backing or just white backing that reflects the light/heat out. You might notice a slight increase in temp in the window with a darker fabric as it is absorbing the light (like a black car), but it is blocking 97% of the light from coming in so it cuts heat as a whole. Also having something in the window is better than nothing and does form somewhat of an insulating airgap behind the shade, but roller shades typically aren't know n for their insulating value. Most of the fabrics favored for residential use don't offer a lot of performance options, but there are some. The metalized back fabric can be a little delicate and show rub marks on the metal side, but it is great if you are careful with it. PVC fabrics are durable and cleanable but may off gas some PVC smell for a while, FYI.

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Originally Posted by GoLaLakers View Post
I am going into the show room this week to compare the Somfy options with Lutron. What kind of control options do I have with Somfy? Can I use Ipad/Iphone to control the shade? If I eventually upgrade to Control 4 or other home automation solution, can the Somfy integrate easily? It's only 1 window for now, but we might eventually expand into some of the bedrooms.
You can think of Lutron like Apple they offer a great product at a premium price, but it is trying to be a closed system. Their products do the same thing as other motor manufacturers, they just do it smoother/quieter. Somfy is used by everyone (including Lutron) and so control options are open and many, like non-Apple PCs. Crestron fully supports Somfy motors, wired or radio. If you insist on using Radio control and not wiring for control, then Radio RA2 is newer and better than Somfy's RTS Radio. Z-Wave Radio is better than both options and would just require using a standard 4-wire ac-motor and separate Z-Wave motor controller or the Somfy ILT Z-Wave setup. It would be compatible with many Z-Wave enabled systems (gateways, lighting controls, HVAC, locks) that offer iDevice control. Somfy is soon to release their Z-Wave system called Tahoma (strictly lighting, shades, and HVAC), but like I said there are other like Homeseer, Micasaverde, etc. I have my entire house controlled via iPhone and I chose Z-Wave because of its open protocol and affordability. Lots of different options. All of this would require a knowledgable salesperson/installer and or a bit of effort on your part to get the system together. So if you want a packaged solution and are willing to pay extra, then Lutron will give you that. If you are budget concious and willing have some input on the components of the system then go Somfy. Don't let anyone tell you that something won't work with something else, there is always a way to make things integrate with eachother. Lutron keeps presssure on its dealers to maintain a certain level of sales and the end result is Lutron gets pushed on every customer whether or not it fits their budget or feature needs. It is best to try to offer everything and tailor the system to the budget and needs of the user.

edit: Go Lakers! (yes I'm in So Cal)
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