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post #1 of 389 Old 11-17-2010, 08:28 AM - Thread Starter
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I am new to the Crestron world, always been more than what I needed. However, we just purchased a new home that previously had a full crestron setup controlling theater (including screen, drapes, pj, audio, etc), whole home audio, pool, outdoor lighting, fireplace. The Crestron panel and wiring are still in place. We also negotiated the equipment into the contract but it has been removed and is not connected. The equipment included is below and was originally installed in 2005:

PRO2 Professional Dual-Bus Control System
CNX-PAD8A Audio Distribution Processor
C2N-TXM Radio Tuner
TPMC-10 Wireless Tablet Touch Panel
TPMC-10 Docking Station
3 LC1000

So the questions are, what would it cost me to reinstall? I assume it is all still programmed for the house. What are areas that may be worth upgrading? I have a Sonos setup now, is it worth integrating or should I just dump Sonos?

Thanks in advance.
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post #2 of 389 Old 11-17-2010, 08:36 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by A&M 350Z View Post

I am new to the Crestron world, always been more than what I needed. However, we just purchased a new home that previously had a full crestron setup controlling theater (including screen, drapes, pj, audio, etc), whole home audio, pool, outdoor lighting, fireplace. The Crestron panel and wiring are still in place. We also negotiated the equipment into the contract but it has been removed and is not connected. The equipment included is below and was originally installed in 2005:

PRO2 Professional Dual-Bus Control System
CNX-PAD8A Audio Distribution Processor
C2N-TXM Radio Tuner
TPMC-10 Wireless Tablet Touch Panel
TPMC-10 Docking Station
3 LC1000

So the question is, what would it cost me to reinstall? I assume it is all still programmed for the house. What are areas that may be worth upgrading?

Thanks in advance.

Whew, it's a little more difficult then you think. These systems are usually sold to clients by realtors like they are just your everyday receiver and tv. Unfortunately and fortunately that is not the case.

1. You will need to have an authorized Crestron installer come in and hook everything back up. Or if you are pretty handy you can go to Crestron's website, pull down the documentation and give it a go yourself, but get ready for some headaches. The equipment you listed is some of the most common equipment they have (save the LC1000's, those are junk now)

2. Code, code, code. You need to MAKE SURE you have the most recent version of the code and touchpanel files from the previous owner or installer. If it is the installer, forewarning, they may charge you for it. And they are allowed to. If you cannot find these files, no changes can be made to your system and it sounds like you would be hard pressed to make anything work at all. If that is the case, you will need to get it re-programmed and I would recommend going with a CAIP (Crestron Authorized Independent Programmer) to make sure it is done right.

3. Upgrades. That is where a consultant should be brought in. You need to figure out exactly what you have/are controlling and what you would like to do. Nothing is impossible, these systems can literally do almost anything. Shooting from the hip at your equipment list, I would say to update the TPMC10 to a TPMC8X for starters. The 10 was discontinued due to wireless problems, weight, and overall unhappiness with the product. The TPMC8X is its successor and has corrected all those problems. The LC1000's need to go to, those are extremely old. They can be replaced with TPS4L's (smaller screen) or TPS6L's (larger screen). The rest of the equipment is good.

Hope this helps.

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post #3 of 389 Old 11-17-2010, 08:50 AM - Thread Starter
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Great, thanks for the advice. I know this equipment is complicated and I have no intentions of going the diy programming route! Props to those who can but for me time is money!

I know Crestron installers are hesitant to install used equipment but hopefully the original installer wont have a problem since it was purchase with the house as opposed to fleabay. Are the code and touchpanel files stored in the equipment or a connected server? The equipment was disconnected but otherwise has not been changed from when it was fully functioning.
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post #4 of 389 Old 11-17-2010, 08:53 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by A&M 350Z View Post

Great, thanks for the advice. I know this equipment is complicated and I have no intentions and going the diy programming route! Props to those who can but for me time is money!

I know Crestron installers are hesitant to install used equipment but hopefully the original installer wont have a problem since it was purchase with the house as opposed to fleabay. Are the code and touchpanel files stored in the equipment or a connected server? The equipment was disconnected but otherwise has not been changed from when it was fully functioning.

Only the compiled versions of the files are stored on the devices. They would do you no good if you pulled them out. You need the full uncompiled versions.

Technically if everything was hooked up again it should work. There are variables though such as with the TPMC10. If it does not have the matching ID with the code it will never function and that is something you would need the uncompiled code to reference. You would also need to know which COM ports and IR ports the different systems are hooked up to, again needing to reference the uncompiled code.

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post #5 of 389 Old 11-17-2010, 08:58 AM - Thread Starter
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Makes my head hurt! Gross ballpark for reinstall and new touch panel? 15k?
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post #6 of 389 Old 11-17-2010, 09:02 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Blowne30M3 View Post

. . . I would recommend going with a CAIP (Crestron Authorized Independent Programmer) to make sure it is done right.

I don't know about recommending a CAIP to "make sure it is done right". Just make sure the Crestron programmer you talk to or your dealer uses is a Certified Crestron Programmer and has a good programming portfolio under his or her belt. Any Certified Crestron Programmer will make sure it's done right.

Also, if you end up pursuing the Crestron solution, the Crestron dealer you end up working with will more then likely have a Certified Crestron Programmer on staff or works with one closely who they will work with in programming your system. Ask the dealer you end up working with about programming.
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post #7 of 389 Old 11-17-2010, 09:05 AM
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Originally Posted by A&M 350Z View Post

Makes my head hurt! Gross ballpark for reinstall and new touch panel? 15k?

It's up in the air on the re-install. With just the equipment you mentioned it could take half a day to a day. To replace equipment here are the prices:

TPMC8X: $3800
TPS4L: $1250
TPS6L: $2400

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post #8 of 389 Old 11-17-2010, 09:08 AM
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Originally Posted by GoGo Delicious View Post

I don't know about recommending a CAIP to "make sure it is done right". Just make sure the Crestron programmer you talk to or your dealer uses is a Certified Crestron Programmer and has a good programming portfolio under his or her belt. Any Certified Crestron Programmer will make sure it's done right.

Also, if you end up pursuing the Crestron solution, the Crestron dealer you end up working with will more then likely have a Certified Crestron Programmer on staff or works with one closely who they will work with in programming your system. Ask the dealer you end up working with about programming.

Go ahead and give Crestron a call on that one. First thing they will say is to go with a CAIP. Sure a certified programmer can do the job, but I've done plenty of systems where so called "certified programmers" have decimated it. Then there are some who do a fine job, it's a flip of a coin. Fact is any 18 year old working for an A/V company can get certified. Does that mean they know what their doing? Nah ah.

Edit: I'd like to point out that CAIP's are not required as there are PLENTY of install companies with on staff programmers who not only meet but exceed Crestron training standards. But if you are an end user and need programming help, it is usually in your best interest to go with a CAIP and not a fly-by-wire programmer no matter what their credentials. They don't have the backing of a company is more my point. The OP here would be much better suited finding an A/V company with an on staff programmer or a company that outsources to a CAIP for their programming seeing as he needs install help as well.

Argument for another thread though.

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post #9 of 389 Old 11-17-2010, 09:39 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Blowne30M3 View Post

Go ahead and give Crestron a call on that one. First thing they will say is to go with a CAIP. Sure a certified programmer can do the job, but I've done plenty of systems where so called "certified programmers" have decimated it. Then there are some who do a fine job, it's a flip of a coin. Fact is any 18 year old working for an A/V company can get certified. Does that mean they know what their doing? Nah ah.

Argument for another thread though.

A CAIP does NOT have any more specialized training than a Crestron Certified Programmer. In fact they both take exact same classes and tests. The only difference is the a CAIP has to pay for the training, unless they are sponsored by a Crestron Dealer, and apply to become a CAIP once certified. A dealer gets it for free.

Don't get me wrong, I am not against CAIPS at all, but to tell a person, who is new to Crestron and asking questions, that "I would recommend going with a CAIP (Crestron Authorized Independent Programmer) to make sure it is done right." is a bit skewed and not objective.

As far as the statement "I've done plenty of systems where so called "certified programmers" have decimated it." ( You're a "Certified Programmer" am I wrong?) I have had the same experience with CAIPS. Thats why I stated "Just make sure the Crestron programmer you talk to or your dealer uses is a Certified Crestron Programmer and has a good programming portfolio under his or her belt." Because of the issues I had with local CAIPS in the area, I stopped using them and hired a Certified Crestron Programmer full time. I am sure there are plenty of GREAT CAIPs out there and I can think of a few that I wish where located locally. I would use them.

I will repeat, just make sure the Crestron programmer you talk to or your dealer uses is a Certified Crestron Programmer and has a good programming portfolio under his or her belt. Whether they are a CAIP or not.
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post #10 of 389 Old 11-17-2010, 10:10 AM - Thread Starter
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I plan on just using the original installer. Hopefully the same people are around! CAIP or not. If it was running right the first time shouldn't be to hard to getting going again. Hopefully all the ancillary stuff is still functional, ie pool controls, fireplace, lighting controls.
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post #11 of 389 Old 11-17-2010, 10:21 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GoGo Delicious View Post

Part1)I don't know about recommending a CAIP to "make sure it is done right". Just make sure the Crestron programmer you talk to or your dealer uses is a Certified Crestron Programmer and has a good programming portfolio under his or her belt.

Part2) Any Certified Crestron Programmer will make sure it's done right.

I agree with the first part

I Disagree with the second part. I have seen some Certified Programmers do a terrible job.

As he said with the first part. Check there programming portfolio. Find out how many projects they've done with the integrator (more jobs that have been done with the integrator will tell you that they have a good relationship and more likely than not work well together) secondly, if possible, get customer referrals and ask those customers about any negatives that they have about the integrator/programmer

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post #12 of 389 Old 11-17-2010, 10:58 AM
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In an ideal world, the original installation company will hook up all the equipment, in 2 hours, and everything will work.

I suggest bringing them back in a month or 2, to make changes as needed.

I think that sucks you're stuck with the original installer - he has the code. If you want to use a different company, you'll have to start the programming from $cratch. If it comes to that, you're best off hiring a programmer yourself.

Hopefully, the original installion company's salesman will practice some restraint, and won't milk you for too many new devices. It will be up to you, to some extent, to recognize how perfect you want the system. Do you want good, or do you want awesome.

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post #13 of 389 Old 11-17-2010, 11:13 AM
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Originally Posted by Neurorad View Post

In an ideal world, the original installation company will hook up all the equipment, in 2 hours, and everything will work.

One issue I see off the bat with re-installing this system is the network. The system programing may have to be updated in order to work with your network.

One example is that the PRO2 may have a static IP address such as 192.168.15.x and if your network is on a 192.168.1.x network then it will not work since they are not on the same network and can not communicate. If this is the case the programming will have to be modified OR you will have to modify your network to work with the Crestron system. Depending on how complex your home network is and if you are able to, it may be easier, and less expensive, to modify your network to match what the Crestron system is on.

Now, if the PRO2 is set for DHCP then chances are it will work and the Pro2 will pick up an IP address from your router.

This also goes for the wireless, WiFi, touch panels.
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post #14 of 389 Old 11-17-2010, 03:06 PM - Thread Starter
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A little off topic but I was browsing crestron's site. What do you guys think of ipad as controllers? Could provide an updated touch pad to the tpmc10 that would be cheaper than the tpmc8x I assume.

Also, the rack was removed. Will any basic middle atlantic rack work? Might be another opportunity to save rather than paying the full dealer retain for a new rack.
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post #15 of 389 Old 11-17-2010, 07:25 PM
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In an ideal world, the original installation company will hook up all the equipment, in 2 hours, and everything will work.

.

2 hrs to re-install a system? Ha, ha, ha.

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post #16 of 389 Old 11-17-2010, 11:54 PM
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You should be able to persuade a local company to come and quote for reinstalling it all. It may not take that long if it is simply a case of reconnecting everything in the rack area (assuming all cables are still terminated).

I wouldn't expect them to charge you anything for this quote, especially if you mention you are interested in upgrading some items.

P.S. Personally, if budget allows, I would steer clear of iPad control except in secondary zones.
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post #17 of 389 Old 11-18-2010, 04:10 AM
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The re-installation time will be depenant on how the de-installation was done.
Snip snip means days. However if it was done with a little thought (Un-plugged), perhaps even marked, it should go fast.
With the front panel of the Pro2, figuring port assignment should be easy.
The stuff on cresnet will sort it's self out. Me, I would just put everything back the way it was, then decide later what needs to be up-graded.

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post #18 of 389 Old 11-18-2010, 07:06 AM - Thread Starter
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Everything is still terminated! All crestron equipment and rack were removed from house. A couple large inwall panels are present labeled crestron. I would hopefully only need to put a new rack back in and get someone out to the house to redo it.
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post #19 of 389 Old 11-18-2010, 07:42 AM
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So, the rack is gone, but the Crestron equipment returned?

Where did the rack go?

If you need new equipment, in a new rack, programming will be required. It's not the rack that is the problem, it's the source components that were in the rack.

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post #20 of 389 Old 11-18-2010, 07:50 AM
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IMO the 2 hours (more like a full day imo) neurorad estimated is possible if and only if they neatly unplugged everything and everything is labeled. The problem though is that people tend to yank and cut wires. A cut cat5 could cost you an hour trying to figure out where it goes.

You will need to pay 2 guys (at least) to come out for a few days and reverse engineer the system. They need to figure out what products went where. This can be a pita when you have multiple same model touchpanels."what room does it go in".

With your amplifier and pad8.. what zone goes to what room? They wont know it until the get the system connected and start trying things. You need to know what pair of speakers goes to what output on the amp then you have to figure out what output from the pad8 goes to what input on the amp and so on and so forth for the subsystems etc.

First thing to do is contact the original dealer and pray they can make this painless for you. If they cant.. then IMO i would consider having the new company rewrite the program from scratch. This will cost less because they will just connect the system however they want and match that in the program. The money spent on programming will save days in labor and you can negotiate your copy of the code this time and you wont be in this position next time you want to make changes.

The LC-1000's suck but they are ok to use again. I would lose the TPMC-10 and replace it with an iPad. You cant get replacement batteries for the TPMC-10 and it will soon be a boat anchor.

Sonos cant be truly integrated but you can easily add it as a source since you already own it. You could use an iPad to control the crestron system and then switch apps to control sonos. I have customers who do that with apple airports.

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post #21 of 389 Old 11-18-2010, 10:58 AM - Thread Starter
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Neurorad you are correct. The problem will be that I will have completely differnt theater equipment! Guess it probably will need some significant reprogramming. I guess the step is to get the rack and my theater equipment installed. Then get the crestron folks involved and hang on tight to my wallet!
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post #22 of 389 Old 11-18-2010, 12:07 PM
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If you have different equipment, just start from scratch with the programing.

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post #23 of 389 Old 11-18-2010, 03:08 PM
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I just re-read the first post and best I can tell, you just got the "control system" and not the display, screen and source equipment for the theater along with any other controlled devices. If that's the case you will be starting from scratch. I mistakenly thought you had a whole system in place to reconnect. You have your work cut out for you. Add some zero's to the cost.

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post #24 of 389 Old 11-20-2010, 03:01 AM
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Damn, no replies. Checking my self for stink.
This thread came to a screeching hault. I hate being the bearer of bad news.
Sounds like he's got a Corvette engine sitting on the garage floor but where's the rest of the car

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post #25 of 389 Old 11-20-2010, 10:15 AM - Thread Starter
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Yeah, I know. Sorry I didn't get back. Long hours on call! But I am afraid you are right. Big engine, no chassis. Better than nothing at all! Plus it was a no lose situation since it was thrown in with the house. I guess the best plan to install my theater equipment which I will do myself to save some coin. No expert but three dedicated full theater builds under the belt! Get everything in place and have someone come and give me some quotes. Since it will be a complete reprogram should i care if it is the original installer? You say add some zeros. Surely not a zero to my 15k guesstimate.
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post #26 of 389 Old 11-20-2010, 03:43 PM
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Before you get to involved in installing everything I think it would be in your best interest to contact them first. Some frown on integrating stuff they did not install. We already know what your Crestron equipment is but perhaps if you list your HT equipment, someone here might be interested in a remote side job. I can't do it for you. I am a hobbiest and to do so would be taking money from those who do it for a living and have been very helpfull to me in the past. Something about crapping where you eat comes to mind.
The comment about the couple of zeros had to do with thinking you had to also buy all the connected HT equipment. Good luck with your project. I don't think it will be all that bad.

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post #27 of 389 Old 11-20-2010, 05:44 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stefuel View Post

Before you get to involved in installing everything I think it would be in your best interest to contact them first. Some frown on integrating stuff they did not install. We already know what your Crestron equipment is but perhaps if you list your HT equipment, someone here might be interested in a remote side job. I can't do it for you. I am a hobbiest and to do so would be taking money from those who do it for a living and have been very helpfull to me in the past. Something about crapping where you eat comes to mind.
The comment about the couple of zeros had to do with thinking you had to also buy all the connected HT equipment. Good luck with your project. I don't think it will be all that bad.

I don't like the thought that they would not integrate stuff I didn't purchase from them. I know what kind of equipment installers that sell crestron carry! I am not planning on a 75k pj or mcintosh amps! Maybe I will need to hire someone on the side.
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post #28 of 389 Old 11-20-2010, 09:44 PM
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Any equipment will work, for the displays and source components.

But some equipment will work MUCH better than others.

Get the programmer involved now, maybe he can also be hired to consult. You also want to buy the equipment now, rather than figure it out over the next 2 years and then have some REALLY outdated Crestron components.

One of the greatest things about hiring a pro is that it GETS DONE NOW.

Believe nothing, no matter where you read it, or who said it, no matter if I have said it, unless it agrees with your own reason and your own common sense. -Buddha

Give a monkey a brain and he'll swear he's the center of the universe. -Fishbone
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post #29 of 389 Old 11-21-2010, 10:50 AM
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Been programing installing Crestron for 11 years. I would say ask the original dealer to put the system back together. Once that is done an iPad can always be added in. Also this gives you a chance to see if you like the system, like the original install company. Once they have the system back in it would be much easier for the install company to give you esitmates on adds etc.
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post #30 of 389 Old 11-21-2010, 12:14 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by David Richardson View Post
Been programing installing Crestron for 11 years. I would say ask the original dealer to put the system back together. Once that is done an iPad can always be added in. Also this gives you a chance to see if you like the system, like the original install company. Once they have the system back in it would be much easier for the install company to give you esitmates on adds etc.
David, in your opinion, what do you think the response will be from the installer if I have my own equipment? I have no problem paying an installer for there expertise and program. I have a touch time paying full msrp for equipment, which I need all new. I am just not interested in buying a 15k pj to get the bleeding edge. Was think about a more middle of the road JVC RS40 or 50 which of course the dealers who care Crestron won't carry or if they do will be heavily marked up compared to our host, avs. Same thoughts for audio equipment. Maybe a top of the line, but still considered low rung in comparison Integra pre-pro and splurge on the amp. I sold all my equipment with our theater when we sold our last house.
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