Networking and HA Question using Savant - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 6 Old 04-13-2012, 08:01 AM - Thread Starter
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I'm trying to decide if I want to go the HA route using Savant. I've called 4 different local companies and they all gave me 4 different ball park figures anywhere from 15K up to 100K. This is what I'm trying to achieve:

- Lighting (This was not part of the quote)
- 3 x Outdoor Camera
- 3 Zone In Wall Speakers
o 2 Zone one pair
o 1 Zone 5.1
- Thermostat using Nest (Not compatible with Savant yet; but heard that a profile can easily be made)
- Irrigation using Cyber Rain (Same as above)
- 2 to 3 Wall mounted iPad
- A/V 2 x TV (TV's provided & future plan up to 5 tvs)
- Direct TV
- Apple TV

Lighting was not included since each installer needed to see where and how many lights we were talking about. A general quote that I got for lighting was $99 to $400 / switch.

I've also asked each installer to quote me just on the HA side then on the wiring side. The last HA company I've spoke with said that I would need a solid wireless network. He quoted me that it could run 8k to 15k just on wireless networking. He also mentioned that he would use Pakedge for the job and speaks highly of it. I couldn't find much information on Pakedge and prices etc. I've done a few searches and seem that each company has its preference from HP Pro, Cisco, Ruckus, etc I understand that you want the iPads etc to have a fast response to what you are asking Savant to do, but I just don't understand how he came up with 8 to 15k. From what I gather Ruckus Controller is 3.5K, and each A/P seems to be $600 ish. If I would use 2 A/P then that's another $1200 to cover a 3600 sq ft house and 11k sq ft lot. Even IF I use something like the HP Pro for a switch (which I currently have 3 @ my work) it would bring the price up to another 1k to 2k. That still puts me less than 7K.

Is the Pakedge that much more expensive and better in terms of lag/response vs. some of the products mentioned above? I just need to know that I'm not walking into a trap where these companies are trying to up sell a product which may be overkill to what I'm trying to achieve.

Thanks in advance.
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post #2 of 6 Old 04-13-2012, 08:13 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chaknchngo View Post

. . . . I understand that you want the iPads etc to have a fast response to what you are asking Savant to do, but I just don't understand how he came up with 8 to 15k. From what I gather Ruckus Controller is 3.5K, and each A/P seems to be $600 ish. If I would use 2 A/P then that's another $1200 to cover a 3600 sq ft house and 11k sq ft lot. Even IF I use something like the HP Pro for a switch (which I currently have 3 @ my work) it would bring the price up to another 1k to 2k. That still puts me less than 7K.

Did you ask the dealer what that 8-15K includes? Maybe it's not just the cost of the hardware but but also includes the cost of labor, installation, network setup/programming etc. Ask the dealer for a break down of the various costs and then you will know.

James
Certified Crestron DM Engineer | CEDIA Certified EST II

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post #3 of 6 Old 04-13-2012, 08:56 AM - Thread Starter
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Did you ask the dealer what that 8-15K includes? Maybe it's not just the cost of the hardware but but also includes the cost of labor, installation, network setup/programming etc. Ask the dealer for a break down of the various costs and then you will know.

They have not provided me with that breakdown. This particular dealer said that the way they work is go give me a ball park and once the I proceed with the project I would have to give them 2% of the ball park for them to get me a breakdown of the cost. Is this normal?

Even installation/setup/programming, does not cost that much money. They can have these configured in hours and not days.

What I didn't like is how Pakedge does not list their retail prices. I believe that the better informed a consumer is, the better they know if they are getting a fair deal or not. When prices are not listed a re seller can easily charge more than the fair value. It's like when my wife takes the car to the dealer vs me. I know what generally everything should be, but my wife doesn't. So not only can she get charged more for the same service, but they can easily up sell my wife for something that the car may not really need.

My question is are Pakedge products are that much better than other products listed above where I can find listed pric?. Are we talking about 1 ms difference or in seconds as far as response from wireless such as iPad etc. with different network setup. In terms of HP, Cisco, Rockus vs Pakedge...
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post #4 of 6 Old 04-13-2012, 09:21 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chaknchngo View Post

This particular dealer said that the way they work is go give me a ball park and once the I proceed with the project I would have to give them 2% of the ball park for them to get me a breakdown of the cost. Is this normal?

There really is no such thing as "Normal". It's normal for us. We do charge $250.00 per hour with a $2500.00 retainer up front, to put together a proposal. I know other companies that charge less, I know some that charge more and I know some that do not charge at all.

Quote:
Originally Posted by chaknchngo View Post

Even installation/setup/programming, does not cost that much money. They can have these configured in hours and not days.

Thats is just an assumption on your end. Depending on the complexity of the network, what you require, what the automation system requires, and what their standard network procedures are, it all takes time

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What I didn't like is how Pakedge does not list their retail prices.

A lot of companies do not list their retail products. For example, Control4, Crestron, Savant, Kaleidescape, McIntosh, Lutron, etc. So it's not just Pakedge.

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Originally Posted by chaknchngo View Post

My question is are Pakedge products are that much better than other products listed above where I can find listed pric?. Are we talking about 1 ms difference or in seconds as far as response from wireless such as iPad etc. with different network setup. In terms of HP, Cisco, Rockus vs Pakedge...

I have never used Pakedge products so I can not answer that question. We are standardized on Fortinet, Cisco and HP depending on the project. The company you are talking with just may have standardized on Pakedge and thats what they use.

James
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post #5 of 6 Old 04-24-2012, 08:12 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chaknchngo View Post

They have not provided me with that breakdown. This particular dealer said that the way they work is go give me a ball park and once the I proceed with the project I would have to give them 2% of the ball park for them to get me a breakdown of the cost. Is this normal?

Yes. Why should someone design a system for you and then give you a shopping list for free? Architects and graphic designers don't do spec work for free. You shouldn't expect a professional automation system designer to work for free either.
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post #6 of 6 Old 04-25-2012, 04:45 PM
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When I was looking at my residential install, I wanted a hospital grade network. I singled out Packedge and Ruckus. I had my HA contact both and neither was really helpful in quoting an install for me. My HA is a Crestron/URC/RTI installer. I had to contact the managers of both multiple times before I got a quote. I knew what I wanted: Dual 802.11 n/g 5.0 and 2.4. The 5.0 was for wireless streaming and the 2.4 was for less bandwidth intensive devices. My HA told me to try out the apple airport extreme (I hate apple products). I was skeptical at first but bought two thru my university account and set them up. Note that apple doesn't advertise but there are advanced network modes available for selection http://reviews.cnet.com/8301-13727_7-10330062-263.html I setup them up as a dual access point system using the same network SSID and login info. It has been foolproof. Auto handshaking and AP crossover. Great TX and Rx transmission rates.
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