Control4 - Nest & Sonos - play well or seperate? - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 18 Old 03-25-2013, 12:49 AM - Thread Starter
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So I think I'm going w/ control4.. But I really like the look of the nest thermostat and some of the learning behind it. I hear it's not compatible w/ control4 right? does that mean I can't do thinks like if the temp in the house in the summer gets too hot I can't open the skylights and house fan to vent the house?


Also, I'm thinking about 7 or 8 zones for speakers & thought I was going to do sonos. But does it make more sense to do control4? I want to play pandora or slacker radio in different rooms, outside, etc.
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post #2 of 18 Old 03-25-2013, 06:28 AM
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If you are going with Control4 it makes sense to use their multi-room amps and integrated music system instead of Sonos. They have a really nice GUI and IOS support as well.

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post #3 of 18 Old 05-24-2013, 11:19 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Dawn Gordon View Post

If you are going with Control4 it makes sense to use their multi-room amps and integrated music system instead of Sonos. They have a really nice GUI and IOS support as well.

I have a few friends who did a hybrid of both. I like that sonos has a bit more selection of music services.

My dilemna was that I have 10 speaker zones, plus 2 rooms which I wasn't going to wire for speakers but instead was going to do the sonos sound bars. This was the master bedroom TV and the Den TV. Mostly because of the vaulted ceilings of those rooms for WAF factor there wasn't a great spot for the speakers. Plus the TV's themselves needed some sort of amplified speaker so I thought 2 birds w/ 1 stone.

But of course I don't want to buy 10 sonos amps at $500/each! The 8 zone control4 at $1500 MSRP, would be a better alternative I suppose. Am I better off getting the vizio sound bars at half the price and mount speakers in those 2 zones regardless so I can have 12 perfect zones, then power it w/ control4 8 channel amp and a 4 channel amp?

Or can I use both sonos & control4 together the way I described?
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post #4 of 18 Old 05-25-2013, 09:17 PM
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Nest is pretty much junk in the world of control systems. I have seen Control4 work with them, then I heard that they couldn't work with them because Nest changed their interface. Nest is entirely proprietary, is secretive, and has no interest in working with any of the people that want to integrate their products.

They are, in a word, stupid about this, which makes them stupid, because they are a niche product, and excluding a very large segement that could spread the word of their niche product very well. If you get them, then you should plan to work with them completely stand alone, which will only bug you if you adjust your temperature several times a day randomly.


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post #5 of 18 Old 05-25-2013, 09:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gadgetfreaky View Post

So I think I'm going w/ control4.. But I really like the look of the nest thermostat and some of the learning behind it. I hear it's not compatible w/ control4 right? does that mean I can't do thinks like if the temp in the house in the summer gets too hot I can't open the skylights and house fan to vent the house?


Also, I'm thinking about 7 or 8 zones for speakers & thought I was going to do sonos. But does it make more sense to do control4? I want to play pandora or slacker radio in different rooms, outside, etc.

Sonos integrates well with Control4 via a driver from Extra Vegetables (which like everything for Control4 costs a few hundred bucks). It will get expensive if you are going to have as many zones as you are thinking, but Sonos supports far more streaming services so it may be worth it to you. For what it's worth, Sonos wireless streaming is much more reliable than other options (although I don't have personal experience with the Control4 wireless music access points) so that may be worth it if you need wireless.

I have 5 Sonos zones in my current home (all wireless) and greatly prefer it to the Russound system in my old home. I find it just works much more easily to listen to both local music and streaming services.

I also have a Nest and think its great - but it's a closed system that (although quite easily capable of integrating with Control4) the company wants to keep that way. Their focus is really a smart thermostat you set and forget once it learns your behavior and automation doesn't seem to fit their vision. If integration is important you may be better off going with the Control4 unit.
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post #6 of 18 Old 05-26-2013, 08:40 PM
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We use control 4 and have 12 zones with 7 zones being C4 speaker points. If your setup with wires already the C4 amp would be the way to go. We use Rhapsody and Tunein. We do have Pandora in 2 zones but don't use it.

VSX-53, VSX-51,VSX-81 Pioneer Elites and Denon 1611
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post #7 of 18 Old 05-26-2013, 09:08 PM - Thread Starter
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I know the nest is a closed system but since i'm running ipads everywhere I don't mind it's a separate app. It's also a lot smarter as a thermometer with the new fan feature etc.

For music I think I now have decided to wire for 12 zones, with 13 pairs of speakers (going to combine the 2 in the master bath which were independent dual voice coil speakers)

I didn't realize control4 now has Pandora which is mostly what I listen to. I'm sure the UI isn't as good as sonos but w/ the cost of the extravegetables driver it's not worth going sonos

So do I need the 8 zone amp and 4 zone amp along with the audio matrix?

I don't need all zones playing different things at the same time. At most probably 2 or 3 different sources. What else do I need?
Do I need the music bridge? say listening to 1 pandora station upstairs, and another in a different zone?

Also, I'm a bit confused on what the sony receivers listed on control4 site get you
http://www.control4.com/products/audio-video
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post #8 of 18 Old 05-26-2013, 09:55 PM
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The Pandora comes from our BR players. Rhapsody and Tunein we can stream throughout the house with C4. If you go with Control 4 get with a good Dealer and tell him or her what you want to accomplish now and for the future. Good luck on what you choose they have a lot of great equipment. We use iPads, iPhones and the C4 SR-250 remotes for control of everything.

This is our equipment.

HC-1000
2 HC-300C
1 HC-200
1 HC-200B
5 SR-250
Front door lock
Garage door control
My Home site license for iPads and iPhones.

Now they have a HC-800 and HC-250 this might be what you need. It will depend on what you want to do.

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post #9 of 18 Old 05-26-2013, 11:12 PM
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Control4 is releasing a wireless music bridge that will stream pandora, spotify and others from your iPhones iPads wirelessly. The player hooks up to your amps or recievers. You need 1 per stream,so if you want to play two separate streams then you need two wireless music bridges. Retails for $300 and has full two way meta data similar to the sonos but without the need of the extra vegetables driver.

The Sony recvrs have built in control4 controllers in them, giving you a reciever along with a hc250 all in one. Better used for a one room system or theater room using the Sony to run speakers.

For the operation of what you are using probably need at least an hc800 to control and handle the processing and perhaps some hc250 depending on the size of the house.
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post #10 of 18 Old 05-27-2013, 08:30 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by siordia View Post

Control4 is releasing a wireless music bridge that will stream pandora, spotify and others from your iPhones iPads wirelessly. The player hooks up to your amps or recievers. You need 1 per stream,so if you want to play two separate streams then you need two wireless music bridges. Retails for $300 and has full two way meta data similar to the sonos but without the need of the extra vegetables driver.

The Sony recvrs have built in control4 controllers in them, giving you a reciever along with a hc250 all in one. Better used for a one room system or theater room using the Sony to run speakers.

For the operation of what you are using probably need at least an hc800 to control and handle the processing and perhaps some hc250 depending on the size of the house.

thanks.. I saw the control4 wirelss music bridge http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5hpOrnAg-EE but it doesn't look like the pandora is integrated into it, rather it streams off of another device like your iphone or ipad. It looks like it's going to require a few more extra steps to listen to a pandora station. click listen, music bridge, then dlna, then pandora??

Looks like the extra vegetables driver for sonos although expensive has really created a seamless experience to listen to pandora, slacker, spotify etc by using the sonos bridge. So I don't have to rely on the ipad or iphone as a source. Am I understanding these things correctly?

Why didn't control4 make their wireless music bridge to connect directly to pandora rather than thru an intermediary device?

I just read the extravegetable driver also can use sonos devices like the soundbar or play 3 as a control4 zone? that's pretty cool.

I watched this extra vegetable youtube video of how to add playlists from sonos to control4 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6BnsTXXnkl0&list=UUA1JKz4LwpkBMy21Rn41RPw&index=1 looks pretty flexible.

has anyone seen the control4 music bridge?
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post #11 of 18 Old 05-27-2013, 11:21 AM
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The Control4 WMB will be officially released and should start shipping in June. We have several on order for our clients. I think in regards to the WMB its meant to stream from your ios devices , bluetooth or DLNA, and really meant to be kept in the AV Rack, while the client can stream from the iphone (for example) their music (from Pandora, spotify iHeart Radio to name a few) and I believe your iTunes library. Based on what we have seen on our trainings you can on your iPhone(example) just choose your listening source (Pandora a playlist on iTunes or anything on device) and on the airplay pick the WMB and instantly it connects and begins playing in that zone through the C4. The C4 then brings up that sources metadata. You can then put your phone down in the kitchen, next to bed or wherever your network reaches and let the music stream.

The Sonos is really nice as a source piece as well and does have it embedded in the player, which can be added to the C4 amps and distributed throughout the residence music zones and you only need one EV license per house and not per sonos player. I think what the WMB from C4 adds is the ability to play/stream your iTunes library and playlist directly from your ios devices which a lot of people are asking for with C4.

Then using C4 Amps its easy just to add more zones to listen to the WMB while one is already listening, there is an add zone button where you can add multiple zones on, what's also nice with the C4 Amps is they give you volume feedback on all the zones and you can adjust the volume in any zone to the level you wish.

We have the C4 WMB on order for the office and will be playing with it as soon as it gets in.

Also Gadgetfreaky, you can add your video sources to the Audio matrix, to play through the speaker of rooms that also have TV's.

Siordia
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post #12 of 18 Old 05-27-2013, 07:14 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by siordia View Post

The Control4 WMB will be officially released and should start shipping in June. We have several on order for our clients. I think in regards to the WMB its meant to stream from your ios devices , bluetooth or DLNA, and really meant to be kept in the AV Rack, while the client can stream from the iphone (for example) their music (from Pandora, spotify iHeart Radio to name a few) and I believe your iTunes library. Based on what we have seen on our trainings you can on your iPhone(example) just choose your listening source (Pandora a playlist on iTunes or anything on device) and on the airplay pick the WMB and instantly it connects and begins playing in that zone through the C4. The C4 then brings up that sources metadata. You can then put your phone down in the kitchen, next to bed or wherever your network reaches and let the music stream.

The Sonos is really nice as a source piece as well and does have it embedded in the player, which can be added to the C4 amps and distributed throughout the residence music zones and you only need one EV license per house and not per sonos player. I think what the WMB from C4 adds is the ability to play/stream your iTunes library and playlist directly from your ios devices which a lot of people are asking for with C4.

Then using C4 Amps its easy just to add more zones to listen to the WMB while one is already listening, there is an add zone button where you can add multiple zones on, what's also nice with the C4 Amps is they give you volume feedback on all the zones and you can adjust the volume in any zone to the level you wish.

We have the C4 WMB on order for the office and will be playing with it as soon as it gets in.

Also Gadgetfreaky, you can add your video sources to the Audio matrix, to play through the speaker of rooms that also have TV's.

Siordia

yeah, that's what I thought. I just find it strange that I have to "stream from my iOS dveice" vs. them building a WMB which in itself directly connects to pandora, sirius, etc. I think the most flexible approach is going to be the control4 8 zone amp, and 2 of the sonos zone players (so you can play at min 2 different things in multiple zones) with the extra vegetables driver.

I read on the extra vegetables that they can use the playbar or play3/play5 as control4 zones which is cool. I want someone to be able to just walk up to a ipad w/ the control4 app and just start playing music, or even ideally a wall button with a preset in the bathroom that launches a pandora station. the control4 media box seems like it's multiple steps and couldn't do that last piece?
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post #13 of 18 Old 05-27-2013, 07:22 PM - Thread Starter
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oh, and why didn't control4 just launch something like the grace digital?

http://blog.control4.com/2012/06/internet-radio/untitled/
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post #14 of 18 Old 06-10-2013, 11:08 AM
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Grace digital tuner with control 4 is awesome and fairly inexpensive
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post #15 of 18 Old 09-18-2013, 08:58 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by siordia View Post

The Control4 WMB will be officially released and should start shipping in June. We have several on order for our clients. I think in regards to the WMB its meant to stream from your ios devices , bluetooth or DLNA, and really meant to be kept in the AV Rack, while the client can stream from the iphone (for example) their music (from Pandora, spotify iHeart Radio to name a few) and I believe your iTunes library. Based on what we have seen on our trainings you can on your iPhone(example) just choose your listening source (Pandora a playlist on iTunes or anything on device) and on the airplay pick the WMB and instantly it connects and begins playing in that zone through the C4. The C4 then brings up that sources metadata. You can then put your phone down in the kitchen, next to bed or wherever your network reaches and let the music stream.

The Sonos is really nice as a source piece as well and does have it embedded in the player, which can be added to the C4 amps and distributed throughout the residence music zones and you only need one EV license per house and not per sonos player. I think what the WMB from C4 adds is the ability to play/stream your iTunes library and playlist directly from your ios devices which a lot of people are asking for with C4.

Then using C4 Amps its easy just to add more zones to listen to the WMB while one is already listening, there is an add zone button where you can add multiple zones on, what's also nice with the C4 Amps is they give you volume feedback on all the zones and you can adjust the volume in any zone to the level you wish.

We have the C4 WMB on order for the office and will be playing with it as soon as it gets in.

Also Gadgetfreaky, you can add your video sources to the Audio matrix, to play through the speaker of rooms that also have TV's.

Siordia


Revisiting this one. Questions is if I'm using iPad mini's throughout the house with control4 for music. Is it pretty seamless as you describe if i'm using ipads as my control4 controllers? That is, do i just go to listen, then pandora since pandora is on my ipad? or do I have to go to pandora, hit airplay to control4, then launch control4 on the ipad?

Debating this route getting $300 music streamer or getting the sonos connect $350 w/ EV driver (how much is it?) then i just launch the control4 app, hit listen and pick pandora, spotify etc. I think mostly i'll be spotify and pandora.
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post #16 of 18 Old 09-19-2013, 01:54 PM
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We have clients who use all three solutions (Grace Digital Tuner, Sonos and Music Bridge/Airplay). If I had to say which is best, I would probably say that the Sonos integrated solution works the best IF you have the right installer set it up. I've seen too many of these get set up incorrectly because the installer didn't spend the time to understand how the two systems work together. If they don't do that, you will be in trouble.

The Grace Tuner is a good solution and we've done a number of them. I wouldn't recommend against that but I think you would have better luck with Pandora if you have the right person doing the job.

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post #17 of 18 Old 09-26-2013, 07:31 AM
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Nest will soon start to work with Control4!
http://nest.com/blog/2013/09/25/calling-all-developers/
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post #18 of 18 Old 09-26-2013, 03:58 PM
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Actually, that means it can work with any automation system that provides a driver for the documented protocol. There already is a protocol, it's just not documented. One of our customers has done a driver for CQC for the Nest. But, being undocumented, it could change at any time. By documenting it, they at least take some reasonable responsibility to keep it working and compatible.

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