New Crestron 3 Lighting System - No Source Code etc. - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
Baselworld is only a few weeks away. Getting the latest news is easy, Click Here for info on how to join the Watchuseek.com newsletter list. Follow our team for updates featuring event coverage, new product unveilings, watch industry news & more!


Forum Jump: 
 
Thread Tools
post #1 of 20 Old 07-29-2014, 11:54 AM - Thread Starter
Newbie
 
Join Date: Jul 2014
Posts: 2
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Liked: 0
New Crestron 3 Lighting System - No Source Code etc.

Hello All,

I am hoping someone has some experience or knowledge to give me some guidance. I just purchased a home in which a couple months before purchasing the home the bank that owned the home installed a New Crestron 3 Lighting system which I am now the proud owner of.

Because the bank installed it I had no say on how the lighting system was designed and room names etc.

I called the company that installed the system and the bank paid $35k to install looking to at least get documentation, licensing info, wiring diagrams, and code set etc. and got a refusal to release anything or offer anything.

I then called the only other authorized crestron dealer in my area and they relayed to me that it would be difficult for them to assist in making changes without the source code, wiring diagrams etc. My reasoning for trying to go with the "other company" was the pure attitude and reluctance for the installing company to assist and making a statement that they would charge me to release the source code of the system.

So now it seems I am held hostage by the installing company to pay a large fee to have them release the source code or documentation.

I would have thought it would be standard practice for all crestron dealers and installers to release the documentation of the system once its fully installed but I could be wrong.

They also claim that myself as the owner of the system cannot make small tweaks to the lighting design like renaming rooms or adding a lower light dimming level etc. that I will always need to place a service call with them and pay for them to make those tweaks.

Does the above sound kosher and normal for a crestron install and I should just suck it up and pay for every little tweak I need from a consumer end?

Appreciate any feedback!

Thanks!
samdeek is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 20 Old 07-29-2014, 12:28 PM
Senior Member
 
FlyingDiver's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Posts: 305
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 105 Post(s)
Liked: 26
Alternatively, you could yank all the equipment and sell it on the used market, and put in something you actually want.
FlyingDiver is offline  
post #3 of 20 Old 07-29-2014, 06:30 PM - Thread Starter
Newbie
 
Join Date: Jul 2014
Posts: 2
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Liked: 0
Quote:
Originally Posted by FlyingDiver View Post
Alternatively, you could yank all the equipment and sell it on the used market, and put in something you actually want.
I really wish it were that simple as I would really consider it. Some of the challenges are that I currently have 9 touch panel screens installed around the house which I would need to sell also and there really doesnt seem to be a good alternative to replace those. I have over 130 recessed lights being managed by the system and the work to connect all those back up to another environment may be daunting.

I may be left with having to get the system wiped and re-programed from ground up if I cant get the code base from the original installer and then do what I can to automate other parts of the house. The challenge there is really around the fact that the 9 touch panels would only control lighting and I would rely on other systems to control the house.

Ultimately I would think its ethical and logical that a Crestron installer would provide a CD etc. with the code base after install as if that company disappears so does your codebase and there is no backup. Thats my ultimate question and was hoping to catch a Creston dealer on here that may shed light on the topic and if its normal to not release the code base.....or is it not even a requirement from Crestron to do so.

Thanks!
samdeek is offline  
post #4 of 20 Old 07-30-2014, 01:46 PM
Member
 
MOTILAC's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: Calgary, Canada
Posts: 40
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 9 Post(s)
Liked: 3
Yes, it is quite common for the original company not to release the source code.

This is because of the nature of what is thought of as Intellectual Property. In many cases, it takes a company several years to develop the signature look and feel of how a typical project operates. Sometimes a company works long and hard to figure out how to best handle certain equipment being controlled by the system. So this is the way they keep "trade secrets" and also a competitive advantage.

In your case, if you cannot work something out with them, then yes your home will need to be reprogrammed. Up front, sometimes you could work something out to allow more access of the engineering and programming of your home electronics system. I have made arrangements with clients in the past where they could have access to the source code if they desired, or if something were to happen to me or the company. Neither have ever happened, so it all has worked out.

In the case of Crestron lighting, no you typically cannot simply add or relabel lights or scenes yourself. Lighting is a complicated subsystem, which must be customized differently per home owner (even per person living in the same house). I have found that Lighting requires the most thought, trial and error, and tweaking of any other controlled electronics. So, you are not being unusual with your desire to change things.

It is NOT worth yanking out the electronics, selling, then "putting in something you actually want". Many heartaches get found out when this is embarked upon. Systems are wired and populated according to design AND current equipment spec. Design and spec that is usually a lot different from one Automation company to the next.

Hope this helps.

Last edited by MOTILAC; 07-30-2014 at 01:50 PM.
MOTILAC is offline  
post #5 of 20 Old 08-06-2014, 02:36 PM
Newbie
 
DLFriederich's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: Sioux Falls, South Dakota
Posts: 6
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 0
If you need some direction in Crestron Lightning I would be glad to help. You may not be able to get the source code but you can at least possibly get some basic info of the equipment installed. Crestron lighting if programmed correctly can have learnable scenes that allow the end user to create and store their own custom scene. All of it in the end just comes down to the initial program creation and how much control they want to relinquish to the end user. Unfortunately the gentleman above is correct that many programmers won't release the source code.
DLFriederich is offline  
post #6 of 20 Old 08-08-2014, 01:56 PM
Senior Member
 
osiris13's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Portland, Oregon
Posts: 245
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 5 Post(s)
Liked: 12
Most companies that sell software are not in the habit of giving away the software.
osiris13 is offline  
post #7 of 20 Old 08-10-2014, 03:51 PM
Member
 
dhammans's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 52
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 9 Post(s)
Liked: 12
I understand your frustration. This is precisely why this is somewhat of a niche market. Not very many people want to buy a closed system that they have to pay someone else to do everything with. Sure that market is there, but this is why it isn't already in every home.

Sorry, but you guys aren't "programming" a Crestron system or writing "software" any more than someone "programs" a 1980's VCR to record television shows. I understand there is some limited IP in the timing, tuning and settings for the various elements the system controls - I'll give you that.

I think this industry is in for a major overhaul in the near future. Apple (Homekit), Google (Nest, etc), and a few other heavyweights are all working to change this to a more end-user friendly arrangement. It is absolutely ridiculous that the end user can't access their own hardware, add a light, or even configure anything. Hundreds of dollars an hour for this "programming" time is really not reasonable for glorified scripting either.

Good luck, must be quite a house if the bank actually shelled out for a Crestron system

Last edited by dhammans; 08-10-2014 at 04:18 PM.
dhammans is offline  
post #8 of 20 Old 08-11-2014, 02:33 PM
Member
 
MOTILAC's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: Calgary, Canada
Posts: 40
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 9 Post(s)
Liked: 3
Quote:
Originally Posted by dhammans View Post
I understand your frustration. This is precisely why this is somewhat of a niche market. Not very many people want to buy a closed system that they have to pay someone else to do everything with. Sure that market is there, but this is why it isn't already in every home.

Sorry, but you guys aren't "programming" a Crestron system or writing "software" any more than someone "programs" a 1980's VCR to record television shows. I understand there is some limited IP in the timing, tuning and settings for the various elements the system controls - I'll give you that.

I think this industry is in for a major overhaul in the near future. Apple (Homekit), Google (Nest, etc), and a few other heavyweights are all working to change this to a more end-user friendly arrangement. It is absolutely ridiculous that the end user can't access their own hardware, add a light, or even configure anything. Hundreds of dollars an hour for this "programming" time is really not reasonable for glorified scripting either.

Good luck, must be quite a house if the bank actually shelled out for a Crestron system
Actually, YES we are. We ARE programming systems. Have you watched an entire process of what it takes to bring a medium to large sized system up and running to 100%?? Have you seen the software, A-Z? If this process took 2 hours, there is no discussion here. The fact is, it takes much much longer than that (depending on the complexity of the system), and it is fairly difficult and/or detailed depending on size of system. Also, many aspects of each program are CUSTOM written in C++ or C#, code based programming. Period. Let's make this clear, I am not talking about "programming" a Harmony Remote. Or a Philips Pronto (which in of itself can be fairly detailed). I am referring to top level Automation/Integration systems.
So, YES this is IP belonging to the company and/or individual who programs the system.

Your comment about a "major overhaul" is partially true. The fact here is this is the natural progression of technology. Remember when the first VCR's were $1,000? Then by the end of it, they were $39. And by then we were on to something else.
Devices are each becoming more inclusive and designed to communicate with others. This naturally will allow more people/companies to readily interface devices to devices. Apple and Nest are a LONG way from providing the type of detail, power, and customization that a top tier automation system provides. It is happening, and quite frankly these are great times for our industry. There will always be a small elite market for this topic. The end fact is, the technology is trickling downstream for more people to take part in, but the elite levels will persist and advance even further.

Last edited by MOTILAC; 08-11-2014 at 02:41 PM.
MOTILAC is offline  
post #9 of 20 Old 08-11-2014, 02:37 PM
Member
 
Drew_W's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Toronto, Canada
Posts: 130
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 13
Where are you located?
Drew_W is offline  
post #10 of 20 Old 08-14-2014, 10:30 AM
Member
 
scotter's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Spokane, WA
Posts: 75
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 17 Post(s)
Liked: 14
We have had similar issues...

I have spent $25k on one Crestron programming project alone (we designed, purchased and installed all the gear - we just needed the programming). After getting taken to the cleaners on some other projects I just write up in the purchase agreement that all the source materials are ours - we are paying for the IP. Never had any static, but I can tell they are hesitant at times. However, 100% of $25k is better than 0% - so we don't have trouble finding an outfit to do the work. There really isn't many environments where you have that relationship, where your product you are buying is held hostage like that. If you have a building designed and built, you get the blueprints, the materials cost, the as-builts, etc. you don't have to call the contractor 3 years later and pay him $2500 to tell you where this one conduit goes. It's on the engineer's drawings (that you own a copy of).

Also, we have moved on to similar projects with similar gear and setups and it's nice to have that source material as a base. Previously, the programmers acted like they were starting over each time and there was all these man-hours involved - when they were basically editing what was 95% done (and designed by us anyway). Now we can say, 'we just need these precise edits - how many hours is that?'.

Regarding the OP, I have found that the Crestron/dealer/programmer relationship is opposite of many in the high-tech sector. In most cases, your vendor has your back and you tend to run into the big, monolithic manf. as the problem. We have had nothing but great luck with Crestron itself. Overnighting parts, speaking with engineers directly and getting real answers, etc. Our rep is always hooking us up and 'mediating' between us, crestron and the programmers and vendors we use.

If I was the OP, I would go directly to Crestron and get the local rep on your side. Perhaps there is something they can do. If you are buying a house where the BANK installed a programmed lighting system I imagine it's not a cheap place and the people roll with perhaps have the desire to have a similar system. If instead, all the system does is infuriate you and you associate that with Crestron it doesnt help Crestron at all. The rep should understand that.
scotter is online now  
post #11 of 20 Old 07-19-2015, 10:47 AM
Newbie
 
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: Ahmedabad, Gujarat, India
Posts: 7
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Liked: 1
Send a message via Skype™ to robinantonymax
Let me know if you need help in crestron programing ,

Contact number +971553451674

Robin Antony
Sr.Av Programmer
Skype: robinantony94
Mail ID: robinantony94@gmail.com
robinantonymax is offline  
post #12 of 20 Old 08-06-2015, 11:57 PM
Newbie
 
Join Date: Dec 2014
Posts: 8
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Liked: 0
I don't want to criticize you or anything, but perhaps the dealer felt like you just wanted the program data so you could go somewhere else with it. I assume you called them, but I haven't heard your conversation with them. Perhaps you should make them aware (if you haven't already done this) that you will NOT be going to another dealer with the code, only that you want to make some changes to your system with them involved. If they are not open to that, then they clearly should not be a dealer.(at least in my eyes)
KTDJ is offline  
post #13 of 20 Old 08-08-2015, 02:52 PM
Moderator
 
David Haddad's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 560
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2 Post(s)
Liked: 16
Quote:
Originally Posted by samdeek View Post
Hello All,

I am hoping someone has some experience or knowledge to give me some guidance. I just purchased a home in which a couple months before purchasing the home the bank that owned the home installed a New Crestron 3 Lighting system which I am now the proud owner of.

Because the bank installed it I had no say on how the lighting system was designed and room names etc.

I called the company that installed the system and the bank paid $35k to install looking to at least get documentation, licensing info, wiring diagrams, and code set etc. and got a refusal to release anything or offer anything.

I then called the only other authorized crestron dealer in my area and they relayed to me that it would be difficult for them to assist in making changes without the source code, wiring diagrams etc. My reasoning for trying to go with the "other company" was the pure attitude and reluctance for the installing company to assist and making a statement that they would charge me to release the source code of the system.

So now it seems I am held hostage by the installing company to pay a large fee to have them release the source code or documentation.

I would have thought it would be standard practice for all crestron dealers and installers to release the documentation of the system once its fully installed but I could be wrong.

They also claim that myself as the owner of the system cannot make small tweaks to the lighting design like renaming rooms or adding a lower light dimming level etc. that I will always need to place a service call with them and pay for them to make those tweaks.

Does the above sound kosher and normal for a crestron install and I should just suck it up and pay for every little tweak I need from a consumer end?

Appreciate any feedback!
This is an old thread, but I'm still going to comment. samdeek, don't know if you are sill following this thread, but this has been an ongoing issue and a black eye on my industry for many years. Please see the article in my signature on the subject, it won't solve your problem, but it may help to inform you a little more about the subject. My goal in the original article was to expose the situation and it has gotten much better since then, but it still happens way to much, especially in instances such as yours.

Last edited by David Haddad; 08-08-2015 at 02:55 PM.
David Haddad is online now  
post #14 of 20 Old 08-08-2015, 07:48 PM
AVS Addicted Member
 
Dean Roddey's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 1999
Posts: 19,859
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 273 Post(s)
Liked: 205
One thing that people have to understand in this area is there are two different things involved, and often people are conflating the two, leading to confusion:

1. You pay someone to create something COMPLETELY custom for you, and therefore you own it.
2. You pay someone to use the tools that they have spent a lot of time working on developing so that they can be reused to create multiple solutions. You are don't own that, and it's just not reasonable to expect to get it. You might argue that you own the pieces based on that that are specific to your system, but that's a useless argument since what you get will in fact be useless without the underlying stuff.

The difference is that #1 is going to cost a LOT more than #2 . With #2 the company can reuse functionality that they have created and designed for re-deployment to multiple systems, and presumably can give you more functionality for less cost and time because they aren't starting from scratch. That is clearly their IP and giving it away would be a huge competitive disadvantage from them. If you want to have it all belong to you, then you have to pay for ALL of the work done, and that will likely mean done from scratch specifically for your system. In that case you are paying for all of the work being done, and could reasonably claim that you should own it when done.

As an analogy, do you believe you have the right to the source code of all of the software products you buy? Obviously you don't. If you WANTED to, you could actually pay someone to write you custom software from scratch, and you cover all of the costs, then the person doing the work is just commissioned by you to create it and you own it. But, in almost all cases, we are more than willing to just buy a working instantiation of that software, because it's vastly cheaper to do so.

Dean Roddey
Chairman/CTO, Charmed Quark Systems, Ltd

www.charmedquark.com

 

Dean Roddey is offline  
post #15 of 20 Old 08-09-2015, 05:00 PM
AVS Special Member
 
Neurorad's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Give a monkey a brain...
Posts: 5,392
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 98 Post(s)
Liked: 102
Hey, look, a moderator.

Hope you're doing well, David.

----------------------------------------------
Believe nothing, no matter where you read it, or who said it, no matter if I have said it, unless it agrees with your own reason and your own common sense. -Buddha

Give a monkey a brain and he'll swear he's the center of the universe. -Fishbone
Neurorad is offline  
post #16 of 20 Old 08-10-2015, 11:56 AM
Member
 
flanole's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Posts: 26
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 12 Post(s)
Liked: 19
Creston is a great product when it works and as long as you don't need to make any modifications. I went through three installers/programmers from 2007 to 2014. One was recommended by Crestron NA. A lot of time and money later, I no longer have a single piece of Crestron equipment in my house. Getting your source code is an absolute necessity, but finding a good installer/programmer makes all the difference.
flanole is offline  
post #17 of 20 Old 08-10-2015, 01:46 PM
Moderator
 
David Haddad's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 560
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2 Post(s)
Liked: 16
Dean, long time no speak! You are using an analogy that has been used many time when this subject gets debated, but I don't think it's a valid analogy . I don't have a right to Windows source code, and there is no valid reason I could demand it. Because if I buy a copy of Windows I don't need the source code if I want to make an adjustment to my start menu, or install a new program, or buy a new computer and install it on that.

The source code we are talking about works much differently, if I buy a Crestron or AMX system (to name a few), I can't even change a DVD player without the source code. In that situation withholding the source code from a customer that doesn't realize they'll be helpless without it is wrong. It's also resulted in literally countless disasters over the years when dealers have gone under, and customers need to pay thousands or tens of thousands of dollars to have their systems reprogrammed when the dealer/code disappears.

The entire "source code is so valuable" argument is exposed for what it is (in this instance) by the fact that you will not find a single home automation dealer who pays independent programmers that doesn't get the source code. Because knowledge is power in free markets, and dealers know better than to ever agree to pay an independent programmer to provide programming without getting a copy of it, and independent programmers therefore know they'd be laughed at if they even suggested they wouldn't release the source code. If it's so valuable why is it only dealers, but never the independent programmers doing the work for the dealers that refuse to provide the source code? After all, programming is literally the bread and butter for the independent programmer. The answer is because it's all about controlling the customer and forcing them to do business with you, and nothing about the source code having any great value other than for that customer. Of course some dealers love to convince themselves otherwise, but it's largely nonsense.

That said, I have NO issues with dealers charging a fair price for the source code, it's the lack of transparency on the issue that I find unethical, where the customer doesn't even know to ask for it and the dealer keeps it a secret that they can't do anything with the system without the code. I would also have no issues with home automation companies providing more robust development options for programmers, where certain "chunks" of code that truly involve a ton of work and have high value could be protected and not included as part of the code, as long as the customer is informed of that. This capability already exists to some extend, but it could be improved.

Neurorad,

Good to see you!

Last edited by David Haddad; 08-10-2015 at 01:51 PM.
David Haddad is online now  
post #18 of 20 Old Yesterday, 06:23 AM
Advanced Member
 
SMHarman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Posts: 886
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 247 Post(s)
Liked: 68
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dean Roddey View Post
One thing that people have to understand in this area is there are two different things involved, and often people are conflating the two, leading to confusion:

1. You pay someone to create something COMPLETELY custom for you, and therefore you own it.
2. You pay someone to use the tools that they have spent a lot of time working on developing so that they can be reused to create multiple solutions. You are don't own that, and it's just not reasonable to expect to get it. You might argue that you own the pieces based on that that are specific to your system, but that's a useless argument since what you get will in fact be useless without the underlying stuff.

The difference is that #1 is going to cost a LOT more than #2 . With #2 the company can reuse functionality that they have created and designed for re-deployment to multiple systems, and presumably can give you more functionality for less cost and time because they aren't starting from scratch. That is clearly their IP and giving it away would be a huge competitive disadvantage from them. If you want to have it all belong to you, then you have to pay for ALL of the work done, and that will likely mean done from scratch specifically for your system. In that case you are paying for all of the work being done, and could reasonably claim that you should own it when done.

As an analogy, do you believe you have the right to the source code of all of the software products you buy? Obviously you don't. If you WANTED to, you could actually pay someone to write you custom software from scratch, and you cover all of the costs, then the person doing the work is just commissioned by you to create it and you own it. But, in almost all cases, we are more than willing to just buy a working instantiation of that software, because it's vastly cheaper to do so.
I think this is always a bad analogy.

I can't get the source code to Windows or Excel or Access or Word.

But if I pay someone to write macros or apps based on those I own that code base. Even if they have upcycled that from prior work. That is me buying their experience.

In comparison the crestron is is the word / Windows and my macro is the compiled system code base.
SMHarman is offline  
post #19 of 20 Old Yesterday, 09:45 AM
AVS Addicted Member
 
Dean Roddey's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 1999
Posts: 19,859
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 273 Post(s)
Liked: 205
I'm not talking about just recycling work, but reusing standardized functionality that is designed to be flexible enough to incorporate into many systems as is (generally though some sort of parameterization mechanism.) I you have put in the time to create a lot of highly flexible, reusable functionality, such that each new system is just a layer built over that (unchanging) substrate, I shouldn't have any claim on that code because I didn't pay for it to be written and it is not part of the customization for my particular system. My choice is, do I accept the (probably lower) price of entry because you have the ability to create my new system with a lot less effort, or pay someone else possibly a lot more to do it from scratch as a full on commission from me so that I own it.

We have an installer who uses CQC to do sports bars. He has put in years of effort now to create a stream lined setup that he can adapt to each new installation with far less overhead than a from scratch effort would entail. I cannot see how any of those customers could lay claim to that work because they didn't pay for it. If he had to recreate the entire system from scratch every time, there would be no economies of scale and the cost to each customer would be far higher. They have to give something to get something (much lower price.)

Dean Roddey
Chairman/CTO, Charmed Quark Systems, Ltd

www.charmedquark.com

 

Dean Roddey is offline  
post #20 of 20 Old Today, 12:12 PM
AVS Special Member
 
AV_Integrated's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Northern, VA - Washington, DC
Posts: 4,423
Mentioned: 13 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 690 Post(s)
Liked: 548
I've programmed Crestron for over a dozen years now. I've run the gamut with companies giving away source code and clinging to it as well. I see both sides, and they are valid arguments. Period. They are valid arguments, and very real.

No doubt, the user interface, and layout of the interface is a heavy part of what takes so much time. A good interface can take hundreds of hours to setup and tweak, then take a day or two so it can be modified for a client. Does the client have the right to those graphics and that work? Should it be given to another dealer to modify or use in any way?

There are certain excellent products out there which get the time and consideration for a very good user interface that sets your installation apart from others. Should this interface be handed to a competing company?

Savant basically has a standard interface they create. Dealers don't make a custom GUI. Similar with Control4. These companies have home setups which are configured more than they are programmed.

Crestron and AMX are programmed systems.

THAT SAID: I will give my code to basically any customer that requests it. I intend to maintain my customer's code until their house burns down. I will email it to them when they ask for it if I'm long into retirement.

I work to build a good working relation with my clientele, and part of that relationship is ensuring them a long term path to having a supportable and reliable home A/V system. If they are paid up in full, and no longer wish to work with me, I will give them their code. I may lock modules that I don't want others to have access to, but I rarely to do this and would rather see someone happy than irritated.

At the end of the day, most people who use Crestron aren't on these types of forums. They aren't the DiY type of people. They aren't tinkerers and even if they do use computers all the time, they may have no interest in using them at home. They may want the reliability that goes along with Crestron and often have the cash in hand to simply pay a company a fair wage for the expertise associated with a control system. The reliability level for a Crestron system is so incredibly high, that most people never call with issues, even years down the road. If you install a Sony Blu-ray player, then replace that player 3 years later with a new unit, the IR commands for it remain the same. No programming. But, these types of consumers will often pay that company to come in and swap out their old Sony with a new one.

I've gone through with customers who have bought a couple of identical players just to have a hot-swappable backup available if they ever needed it.

Lighting setups aren't deep in my user base for Crestron. I've done Vantage, and a bit with Homeworks. I have Insteon (PITA) at my home. I know it takes several days to go through a large home (10,000 square feet) and setup all the scenes, and fix all the electrician screw up (numerous). But, it has always been a major time factor to get lighting systems up and running (just up and running) let alone getting them integrated into a home automation system like Crestron after the setup. Crestron lighting I believe offers both stand alone use, as well as integrated use, so they are separate factors and considerations IMO.

I recommend people always talk to companies, work with them, find out if they release code, and find out if there is a cost associated with receiving that code. My contracts always spell it out as part of my standard boiler plate template, and it's never been an issue. The company I currently work for full time also has no issues giving away the code in the name of good business.

AV Integrated - Theater, whole house audio, and technology installation in the Washington DC metro area.
AV_Integrated is online now  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Reply Home Automation

Tags
Crestron



Forum Jump: 

Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off