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Home Automation Quote Control4 system quote and use of Bose speakers

3K views 11 replies 6 participants last post by  AV_Integrated 
#1 ·
Hi AVS forum members/Experts,
I am looking for basic whole home audio/video distribution, security , light control and thermostat controls for our new home construction entering electrical work phase soon. I did shop around with two to three quotes, I found Control4 system as for functionality a reasonable choice, I don't intend to do any DIY, I found two control4 dealer quotes completely different by several thousand dollars for the same Home automation requirements, and felt one of the dealers was clearly taking me for a ride. I am attaching the other better quote here, which excludes lighting control 9 with add on option later). The guy is very nice and has been doing many projects, and I very strongly believe every business to make some profit for a decent job. 1. What I found on the cost of some components were significantly higher than any retail online price 2.A quote posted from Oct 2014 here in AVSforum by fellow member with Control4 for much more higher components of Home automation was lot cheaper, if any experts can take a look and let me know if these quotes reasonable.
I thought some speakers listed by the dealer are discontinued and the SONY AVR which he is trying to convince saying 5 year warranty is almost 10 year old model. I used to have Harmon-Kardon AVR and recently Denon AVR, I would say my knowledge about HA is little beyond a beginner, but I am unable to say for sure the pricing is the best. For ex. the C4 HC800 some one mentioned in their quote as $1000, my quote has it for $1499 excluding the C4 SR260 remotes. The security camera kit being offered ( the components if purchased by me comes to &3,700) the quotes with installation is coming to $7,700.
Any help is highly appreciated.

Thanks in advance

Blimbos
 

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#2 · (Edited)
I was specifically comparing with the quote posted by AVS member in this thread

avsforum.com/forum/36-home-v-distribution/1706329-quote-v-prewire-control4

I couldn't post the url link , since I am not eligible, also i wanted to ask member's opinion about using Bose in-ceiling / in wall speakers , any advantage or disadvantage. I am familiar with online Bose critics views, i am specifically referring to ease of use, integration with C4system, and cost.
I see these speakers Virtually Invisible® 191 in-wall speakers for $299/pair comparable to some entry level decent speakers like Sonance.
Also another installer was recommending Bose inceiling speakers ( mentioned above) with SoundTouch™ SA-4 amplifier package as an option.

the quote I have posted includes cost of components, labor and tax ( excluding item 4 and 5 below)

Our budget allocated is between 20 k to 25 K for all the following ,
1. Whole home AV distribution with Speakers for
a. Family room ( preferably 5.1),
b. Kitchen , Living room, Dining room two each
c. Master bed room and another bed room two each
Master bath and a common bath one ( with stereo capability, if this is a good option if not two speakers for each BR)

2.Cat 6 E wiring as mentioned in the quote, Video to Family room, Master Bed room and one additional room ( TV locations).
3. IP based Security camera systems with integration into HA

4. Thermostat and irrigation controls
5. Lighting control to select rooms ( Family room, LR, DR, Kitchen, Master Bed )

Thanks
 
#3 ·
Looking at your quote, it seems that he is charging you the correct MSRP for each unit. I'm not sure about every C4 component but the remotes and HC-800 are correct. I don't understand the actual numbers on your pre-wire (2500 ft. Cat6E?) it seems reasonable. FWIW, I have been quoted between $4k (analog 16 channel system) and $11k (POE 1080p 16 channel) on security cameras.
 
#4 ·
Thank you for your response. 2,500ft CAT6 E cable online even from decent companies was coming to around $ 600 max, these kind of high component costs some of which are significantly higher than the online retail price is making me feel if they(dealers) really know that clients have a way of finding these components online prices or just assume these are hidden prices from the clients.

I would wonder if even the MSRP online is lesser than the quoted price, isn't it an assumption that the dealer cost will be much lower? I am OK with them charging appropriately for the labor cost, but the component cost it appears like they really want to skim the clients.
This is a project in NY, in Nassau County Long Island, do any one think the dealers will entertain negotiating the component price? There are plenty of professional installers and dealers, but at the same time it looks like there's a good demand and in addition it's possible some of these dealers get a few really high end projects running in 6 digit figures and plain simple do not want to go over details.

Any one if can comment on Bose speakers , would be helpful or suggest alternative to fall in that budget.
Thanks
 
#5 ·
There has to be some markup on products. The prices for the C4 gear are MSRP. That said, your dealer likely gets it 50% less and marks it up to MSRP. Assuming they are doing the same on speakers, cabling, etc. If he provides everything to you at cost he would just inflate his labor charges. He is operating a business.

Also if you source your own wire, and if it goes bad, who is on the hook for the repair? If its his wire, and it goes bad, you have recourse to have him fix it.

I am sure there is always some wiggle room in negotiations of the pricing. I think most contractors expect a little back and forth.

In general, I think the quote is mostly fair. I dont know the prices of some of those speakers. Personally I am not a big Bose fan - you are over paying for a name vs quality. I have some Polk and Sonance mixed in my house and I am very happy. If not mistaken, Bose speakers usually have to terminate into their units to work - which could be messy for the install purposes, though I could be wrong so do not quote me there.
 
#6 ·
There has to be some markup on products. The prices for the C4 gear are MSRP. That said, your dealer likely gets it 50% less and marks it up to MSRP. Assuming they are doing the same on speakers, cabling, etc. If he provides everything to you at cost he would just inflate his labor charges. He is operating a business.
I am absolutely in for businesses making their profit, no problem, clearly understand, a reasonable mark up is OK, but markup by 300% when the online retail MSRPs are visible to every one, makes me feel uncomfortable

[/QUOTE] Also if you source your own wire, and if it goes bad, who is on the hook for the repair? If its his wire, and it goes bad, you have recourse to have him fix it.[/QUOTE]

Agreed


[/QUOTE]In general, I think the quote is mostly fair. I dont know the prices of some of those speakers. Personally I am not a big Bose fan - you are over paying for a name vs quality. I have some Polk and Sonance mixed in my house and I am very happy. If not mistaken, Bose speakers usually have to terminate into their units to work - which could be messy for the install purposes, though I could be wrong so do not quote me there.[/QUOTE]

Thanks for the info.
 
#7 ·
His labor seems low - I think I see 3 entry points in there for a drop over $3,000. If they are running all the wires and doing all the C4 programming and only charging $3k, I would not mind paying that mark up some of the hardware.

Just my own $.02 after a quick glance at the quotes. Most people charge about $150/hr in your neck of the woods for this type of service. At ~$3,000, that is 20 hours of labor. To run these wires, terminate them, properly build out the AV Rack neatly, cut out/install speakers, program the C4 system, etc should take more than 20 hours if done properly.
 
#9 ·
I agree with others that labor seems low on this. Pricing doesn't seem crazy and that AVR model is still a current model (and a good one, too).

Travis
 
#12 ·
I've worked for companies with low labor rates and high MSRP equipment prices, and I run the opposite of that where I charge actual labor rates required, and then look for deals on products.

IMO, the equipment des seem high, but I'm in agreement that the labor is low. Ridiculously low really.

If it is a first presentation, you could always just ask them if they would take a bit off. 10% is a reasonable expectation, but they may only offer 5% or so. Still, the pricing seems reasonable. Not crazy high, or crazy low.

The comparison to online pricing is silly. If you intend to order everything, and you intend to make sure it all works, and you are willing to take full acceptance for any and all issues associated with it, including warranties which may not be honored due to your choice of purchase, then perhaps you can provide some product. That's part of my 'real labor pricing' mentality. While I will accept you buying on your own, you still pay me what my time is worth. But, many companies won't do this at all because they aren't properly billing their real world labor challenges.

So, if you like their level of expertise and how they are speaking to you, then use them, but definitely go back and see if you can get 10% off the package deal. Quotes often (typically?) come in with a bit of room for negotiation. They will be psyched if you take it as is, but will still likely be happy at $2,000 less than what is currently being listed.

I've personally never used a speaker bracket, so I'm not sure why they are charging for that.

If the equipment rack is going in an unfinished space (corner of your basement, or a closet) then spending $1,200 on one with fans and a glass front door and sides is extravagant. Go with the Middle Atlantic SLIM-5-26 model for just a few hundred bucks. Plan on another few hundred for rack shelves, rack rails, etc.

Tell them you want to know the price per HDMI cable, then want the installers to use HDMI cables of the correct length only. (inner rack use)

Make sure they are using proper banana plugs (if needed) for all amplifier connections as possible.

I would insist upon at least 14/4 wiring throughout a house, not 16/4 wiring. 16 gauge is nice, but is very unlikely to meet the recommendations upon length to gauge expectations.

There is a ton which could be discussed, and every aspect is open to some savings, but I wouldn't go overboard. Pricing isn't unfair here, and they look like they have a decent system setup for you.
 
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