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post #31 of 69 Old 08-18-2017, 02:09 PM - Thread Starter
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I tried calling Dahua yesterday and today, and selected the sales extension.

It just goes to voice mail.

I left a voice mail yesterday and never got a call back.

http://www.dahuasecurity.com/en/us/contact.php

EDIT: They just called me back, see a few posts below.

Last edited by nuraman00; 08-18-2017 at 02:42 PM.
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post #32 of 69 Old 08-18-2017, 02:20 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Timothy Wright View Post
One can terminate cat 5 or cat 6 on punch down blocks, in my case with an old house I pulled cat 6 wire that that was already terminated on both ends. The the wall plate had a double female socket for RJ45 so in effect I ran 30' or 50' cat 6 patch cable from wall plate to wall plate up the walls to my attic and then down the wall to the next wall plate. Then one needs a two more short patch cables, one from wall plate to switch at the wiring closet and another from the wall plate to the TV.

In new construction I'd run the cat 6 wires in conduit to protect them from someone like me who might drive a nail in a wall to hang a painting or use a dry wall screw to hang sheet rock.

I hope that helps.

Where I have TVs I have a double RJ45 wall plate so I don't just have wires coming out of the wall. I have only two TV so on the closet side which is in my home office I have a four RJ45 wall plate so it all looks nice.

For my (16) cameras I am using a real closet as a wiring closet. I have a large scoop shaped wall plate where (16) RG6 and (16) 16/2 wires penetrate the wall at the terminal box. The wires all go up into the attic and over to the overhang where exterior cameras are mounted. For my (4) interior cameras the wires come down with in interior walls to where the cameras are mounted. I have no wireless cameras. If I had to do it all over again I would hard wire cameras with Cat 6 not RG6 but parts of my CCTV system is 10 years old.
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Originally Posted by freeoscar View Post
No, that's not how ethernet, or other low voltage cables (phone, security) work. All of the wires are 'home run' to a central location (a wiring closet typically), where they are terminated. So if you have 10 ethernet ports in your house, and another 6 cameras, you'd have 16 different runs of wiring that all come to the same place. There they are terminated (usually on a punch block) and then connected to the 'source' - a switch/router or the camera NVR. Cable/Satellite co-ax is usually done the same way (but terminated straight into the splitter), though it can be split and daisy chained, though the preference is definitely to have it home-run.
Thanks for both of your explanations.

I don't have any RJ45 wall plates currently.

Since I'm getting an installer, would the installer need / want to install one?

Or would I run a cable from every camera to the NVR?
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post #33 of 69 Old 08-18-2017, 02:41 PM - Thread Starter
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Just a mini update of sorts.

* I called a local company, Cypress Video. They gave me an estimate for 5 cameras, a NVR, and a 22" monitor. With installation.

They don't do 3rd party installation.

When I asked about whether I should get varifocal lens cameras, they said no, and that fixed lens have better resolution. Not sure I agree with that.

* California Security Camera: They are working on my estimate.

They are fine with either their products, or installing 3rd party products.

* Security Camera Warehouse: They want floor plans and pictures, so I'm working on putting that together so I can get an estimate.

* PSS Electronics: Have an appointment next week for an estimate.

* Dahua: The sales rep just called me back. Another sales rep will be in contact with me and refer me to retailers and installers. Will also work with me about an estimate (but I think that will be more about product information before referring me to the installer).


I need to find out if any of these offer technical support on the weekends, as that could be a difference maker.
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post #34 of 69 Old 08-18-2017, 03:05 PM
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@freeoscar

You did a much better job explaining that than I did now that I reread it,

Thank you.

System: (2) NASs with 40TB of movies and music; Oppo 105D DAT and optical drive; Rotel RC-1590 Pre-Amp; Yamaha M2 power amp; Magnepan MG 3.7i speakers; 65" Samsung TV
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post #35 of 69 Old 08-20-2017, 12:44 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nuraman00 View Post
Thanks for both of your explanations.

I don't have any RJ45 wall plates currently.

Since I'm getting an installer, would the installer need / want to install one?

Or would I run a cable from every camera to the NVR?
@freeoscar, @Timothy Wright, what do you think?
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post #36 of 69 Old 08-20-2017, 02:27 PM
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Originally Posted by nuraman00 View Post
@freeoscar, @Timothy Wright, what do you think?
If you don't already have ethernet throughout the house, and therefore no sort of structured cable setup, you don't really need to set one up just for the cameras. You can just wire the cameras directly into the NVR. I'm assuming that these are POE cameras and that the NVR has a built in POE switch. Otherwise you'd need to get power to the cameras otherwise, through some type of PoE injector. But the first case is more likely (that the NVR has PoE built in).
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post #37 of 69 Old 08-20-2017, 03:44 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by freeoscar View Post
If you don't already have ethernet throughout the house, and therefore no sort of structured cable setup, you don't really need to set one up just for the cameras. You can just wire the cameras directly into the NVR. I'm assuming that these are POE cameras and that the NVR has a built in POE switch. Otherwise you'd need to get power to the cameras otherwise, through some type of PoE injector. But the first case is more likely (that the NVR has PoE built in).
Yeah, right now I don't have any structured setup.

I just have one ethernet cable from my router to my desktop, and another one from my router to my Tivo. Both my desktop and my TV+ Tivo are near each other.

Those are the only hardwired connections I have.

So it wouldn't facilitate anything to have ethernet cables run behind walls, or to create a structured setup? It wouldn't be cleaner? For example, if I had a camera on the outside at each of the front, back, and sides of the house, it wouldn't be any cleaner to run them behind walls and then pull them out to the central location?

Some of these questions I'll get answered when the one company, PSS Electronics, will do an on-site estimate.

But I want to understand as much as possible before hand, so that when they tell me something, I can respond accordingly.
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post #38 of 69 Old 08-20-2017, 07:14 PM
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Funny thing today I went and looked at 5 open house new construction homes $1.2m to $989k range and none of them were net zero or home automated, none had alarm systems or cameras. In fact when I asked I don't think they knew what I was talking about.

System: (2) NASs with 40TB of movies and music; Oppo 105D DAT and optical drive; Rotel RC-1590 Pre-Amp; Yamaha M2 power amp; Magnepan MG 3.7i speakers; 65" Samsung TV

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post #39 of 69 Old 08-21-2017, 08:48 AM
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Originally Posted by nuraman00 View Post
Yeah, right now I don't have any structured setup.

I just have one ethernet cable from my router to my desktop, and another one from my router to my Tivo. Both my desktop and my TV+ Tivo are near each other.

Those are the only hardwired connections I have.

So it wouldn't facilitate anything to have ethernet cables run behind walls, or to create a structured setup? It wouldn't be cleaner? For example, if I had a camera on the outside at each of the front, back, and sides of the house, it wouldn't be any cleaner to run them behind walls and then pull them out to the central location?

Some of these questions I'll get answered when the one company, PSS Electronics, will do an on-site estimate.

But I want to understand as much as possible before hand, so that when they tell me something, I can respond accordingly.
Yes, it would definitely be cleaner to run them behind the walls to a central location. I meant that once at that central location, you can connect them directly to the NVR. Some people will end each run of ethernet cable to a patch panel (like this one, for example http://www.leviton.com/en/products/476tm-654) and from there run a patch cable to the NVR (or in the case of ethernet, to a switch and/or router). In general it makes for a much more organized and easy to follow wiring configuration for your house, but if you only have the 4 or 6 or more camera cables, you can just connect those directly to the NVR.
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post #40 of 69 Old 08-26-2017, 04:08 AM
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Functionally, what are the pros of an IP camera vs. an analog camera?

"The best analog surveillance camera still can't hold a candle to the worst IP camera when it comes to the resolution of the image it captures. At best, an analog camera can manage the equivalent of less than half a megapixel, whereas a Megapixel camera wouldn't be much good if it didn't produce an image of at least ONE of the things it's named after. Many of the Everfocus cameras we stock are available in 1.3, 2, or 3mp configurations, which is far better quality than you could hope to achieve with a traditional CCTV camera. Additionally, IP cameras capture a much wider field of view than comparable analog cameras, meaning a single IP camera is potentially able to do the job of three to four of the old school cams"
"In a traditional analog DVR set-up, each camera must be connected directly to the DVR. IP cameras can circumvent this through the use of switches, which allow cameras in close proximity to each other to be connected to a single switch, which then runs a single wire to the NVR (Network Video Recorder). This reduces the amount of cabling runs, which makes it ultimately less labor intensive, and also allows you to connect more cameras because you're no longer limited by the number of ports on your DVR. On top of that, using a PoE (Power over Ethernet) switch allows your Cat 5e or Cat 6 cable to run the signal AND provide power to your camera, eliminating the need for a separate power supply"

Both of these come with non IP cameras, right?
https://www.costco.com/Q-See-8-Chann...100282096.html


No. This is an analog system. It says so in their own ad.

https://www.costco.com/Lorex-16-Chan...100308823.html

No. This also is an analog system. It says so right on top of the ad

But this next one comes with IP cameras?
https://www.costco.com/Lorex-8-Chann...100341507.html


Yes


What do you mean "ability to make up the camera"?

It was a typo. I meant to say -ability to make up the CABLE ends.The cable that connects the camera and the NVR. Good luck doing that with the cables on analog cameras that use BNC connectors. With IP cameras you can buy a spool of CAT5 cable an run a single cable long distances and cut the cable crimp the ends without buying pre-made cables. The inexpensive CAT 5 cable would carry the DC voltage to power the cameras, as well as the video signal and audio where employed. NOT so with the expensive coaxial cable. You would still need DC voltage to power the cameras with another wire that piggy-backs the coaxial cable.


Why is installation of an IP camera easier? Is there something about connecting PoE cables that's easier than BNC cables?

I think all those questions can be easily answered with a simple search or going to the link I provided. Like I said you can give those people or any other company that sells this stuff and ask THEM the same questions. Let whomever you decide to patronize answer those questions for you so there is an accountability on their part. Me and others giving you our own opinions don't have anything to gain or lose if we provided bad information.
CAT cables are easier to work with. Single CHEAP cable is all you need between the camera and the NVR. Try pricing BNC connectors. Go to YouTube and look for "how to attach BNC connectors to coax cable", you will quickly learn the answer to your question why it is easier.

The packages sold at Home Depot, Costco, or Staples all come with a set length of cables, don't they? Are they long enough to place the cameras where you want them? What THEN? Have you done a site study that will help you determine how many cameras you will need or the proper coverage? The link I gave you will help you with it.


Did you mount everything yourself? If I wanted a professional installation for mounting the cameras, who or what service options are there?
Yes I mounted them where I wanted them. The cameras and the system I used are PLUG and PLAY. I didn't have to buy any software, or do any programming. I hooked everything up where I wanted. The cameras come with the hardware, connectors, screws needed including the weatherproof housing and connectors. Once I mounted them where I want them, I called Security camera warehouse and they did a remote connection to my Laptop and set everything up. 30 minutes on the phone I was up and running. I also installed the software for my IPad, iPhone and my Desktop PC. They did all the software installation remotely while I watched. NO CHARGE.
If you don't want to climb ladders or crawl in attics running wires and installing cameras yourself, you can call ANY one of the Security companies in your town. They'll do it for you but they WILL charge plenty. With the company I went, there are no monthly fees, any contracts, or any monitoring. You do it all. You can monitor your cameras from anywhere in the world as long as you have a cell phone or a laptop or a computer.
Your point about analog cameras not being close to the worst IP camera isn't true....there are 4mp analog cameras available. IP is the way to go, but analog does provide great quality still.
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post #41 of 69 Old 08-27-2017, 05:58 AM
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I have some better resolution cameras when not long ago I doubled my camera count from (8) to (16) cameras but what I purchased needed to work with my existing system. I believe there is a general agreement for a new system with out legacy hardware on site, IP cameras are the way to go.

The bandwidth capacity on eight wire cat6 is much higher than that of 2 conductor coax cable that this is a no brainer. RG59 cameras will soon go the way of 8 track tapes and betamax.

Then there is the ease of working with cat6 vs RG59, and the cost of the wire to consider, and the reliability.

I am confident that just as the resolution on pocket cameras doubled every year for a decade the same will be true for IP CCTV cameras. Start off with cat6 in place now and 2-5 Mega pixel cameras and in five years the same wire runs may support 16-25 Mega pixel cameras.

There is a limit on the other end as well at the NVR, they have to be able to record to disk from several cameras simultaneously. My cameras only record on motion so at any given moment maybe half my cameras are working. If there is a weather event all my cameras may be working at the same time and so far that has not been a problem for me. As camera count increases and resolution improves one does need a superior (commercial and expensive) NVR to keep up.

System: (2) NASs with 40TB of movies and music; Oppo 105D DAT and optical drive; Rotel RC-1590 Pre-Amp; Yamaha M2 power amp; Magnepan MG 3.7i speakers; 65" Samsung TV
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post #42 of 69 Old 09-10-2017, 11:31 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Timothy Wright View Post
I have some better resolution cameras when not long ago I doubled my camera count from (8) to (16) cameras but what I purchased needed to work with my existing system. I believe there is a general agreement for a new system with out legacy hardware on site, IP cameras are the way to go.

The bandwidth capacity on eight wire cat6 is much higher than that of 2 conductor coax cable that this is a no brainer. RG59 cameras will soon go the way of 8 track tapes and betamax.

Then there is the ease of working with cat6 vs RG59, and the cost of the wire to consider, and the reliability.

I am confident that just as the resolution on pocket cameras doubled every year for a decade the same will be true for IP CCTV cameras. Start off with cat6 in place now and 2-5 Mega pixel cameras and in five years the same wire runs may support 16-25 Mega pixel cameras.

There is a limit on the other end as well at the NVR, they have to be able to record to disk from several cameras simultaneously. My cameras only record on motion so at any given moment maybe half my cameras are working. If there is a weather event all my cameras may be working at the same time and so far that has not been a problem for me. As camera count increases and resolution improves one does need a superior (commercial and expensive) NVR to keep up.
Somehow I didn't get any notifications of this thread after 8/21.

I had an installer come for a site evaluation on 8/25.

One thing he mentioned, when I asked about cat6, was that currently technology isn't close to the upper limits of cat 5. So he doesn't think we can get to the upper limits of cat6 anytime soon.

So he recommended staying with cat 5.

Thoughts?
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post #43 of 69 Old 09-10-2017, 11:41 AM - Thread Starter
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A question about NVRs.

I want to use a 1080p as a display, as well as a new (not yet purchased) 4K monitor @ 4 MP.

I asked about using this NVR, which has 1 HDMI out. I asked if I can use a HDMI splitter and an HDMI extender.

http://www.dahuasecurity.com/en/us/p...s.php?pid=6602

The installer said that you can't display two different resolutions that way.

He said you need this NVR with dual HDMI out to display at two different resolutions:

http://www.dahuasecurity.com/en/us/p...ls.php?pid=986

Is this true?

What would happen if I tried to view 4MP on my 1080p TV? I read that a Blu Ray player downscales it, for example. But I'm concerned with a NVR, not a Blu Ray player.
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post #44 of 69 Old 09-10-2017, 12:41 PM
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nuraman00>

> One thing he mentioned, when I asked about cat6, was that currently technology isn't close to the upper limits of cat 5. So he doesn't think we can get to the upper limits of cat6 anytime soon.

> So he recommended staying with cat 5.

> Thoughts?

I want to think your installer is correct in what he said: "currently technology isn't close to the upper limits of cat 5".

All my cameras are BNC, not IP. However resolution doubles every few years, five years after installing 8 cameras I went back and installed 8 more at double the resolution. So for my home network I pulled all cat 6 because much of the cost is in the labor of pulling the wire not in the wire itself. My home network all runs at gigabit speeds and that makes a huge difference pulling movies off the server. 10 Gigabit speeds are here now. Five or ten years from now when I upgrade to better cameras do I want to pull wire all over again? Forgetting the time value of money, if the difference of money between Cat 5 and Cat 6 is less than $100 why not future proof?

I'm 64 years old, many in my family live until they are in their mid 90's. I would not want to pull camera wire ever again. Yes in 30 years currently technology will be very different. Look at TVs, cars, cameras, and PC's 30 years ago. The cameras are a 5 year investment, the wiring is infrastructure intended to serve the life of the house.

nuraman00> A question about NVRs.

My NVR connects to my home network via IP. I can view my cameras with IE browser on any PC, (even a laptop connected via wifi). I can't watch my cameras on any TV because TV browsers can not specify a port setting in the URL. MY desktop PC sports a 55" VIZEO 4k display that I purchased for only $500.

Your installer is correct unless you do what I did, I use a browser to view cameras. In general the display resolution is limited to those supported by the NVR.

MY PC has an app to config and maintain the NVR, Once cameras and NVR are set up I avoid using the app. One bad touch of the mouse I can screw up settings that I'd rather not touch. So I use a browser not the app to simply monitor cameras.

(enclosed screen shot at 4K)

Software is determined by the NVR brand and model. So select wisely.

I spend a lot of time not in front of my TV but on a PC every day. I use IE for CCTV cameras but Chrome for everything else. When I open IE the 4x4 (16 camera) display is the home page. Nothing could be easier. Because it is a browser window I can change shape and size at will. I can choose to monitor 1,4,9 or 16 cameras. Watching 16 cameras in a browser is a load on the network but not so much on the CPU or GPU.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg Alibi 001.jpg (862.6 KB, 21 views)

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Last edited by Timothy Wright; 09-10-2017 at 12:45 PM.
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post #45 of 69 Old 09-10-2017, 01:41 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Timothy Wright View Post
nuraman00>

> One thing he mentioned, when I asked about cat6, was that currently technology isn't close to the upper limits of cat 5. So he doesn't think we can get to the upper limits of cat6 anytime soon.

> So he recommended staying with cat 5.

> Thoughts?

I want to think your installer is correct in what he said: "currently technology isn't close to the upper limits of cat 5".

All my cameras are BNC, not IP. However resolution doubles every few years, five years after installing 8 cameras I went back and installed 8 more at double the resolution. So for my home network I pulled all cat 6 because much of the cost is in the labor of pulling the wire not in the wire itself. My home network all runs at gigabit speeds and that makes a huge difference pulling movies off the server. 10 Gigabit speeds are here now. Five or ten years from now when I upgrade to better cameras do I want to pull wire all over again? Forgetting the time value of money, if the difference of money between Cat 5 and Cat 6 is less than $100 why not future proof?

I'm 64 years old, many in my family live until they are in their mid 90's. I would not want to pull camera wire ever again. Yes in 30 years currently technology will be very different. Look at TVs, cars, cameras, and PC's 30 years ago. The cameras are a 5 year investment, the wiring is infrastructure intended to serve the life of the house.

nuraman00> A question about NVRs.

My NVR connects to my home network via IP. I can view my cameras with IE browser on any PC, (even a laptop connected via wifi). I can't watch my cameras on any TV because TV browsers can not specify a port setting in the URL. MY desktop PC sports a 55" VIZEO 4k display that I purchased for only $500.

Your installer is correct unless you do what I did, I use a browser to view cameras. In general the display resolution is limited to those supported by the NVR.

MY PC has an app to config and maintain the NVR, Once cameras and NVR are set up I avoid using the app. One bad touch of the mouse I can screw up settings that I'd rather not touch. So I use a browser not the app to simply monitor cameras.

(enclosed screen shot at 4K)

Software is determined by the NVR brand and model. So select wisely.

I spend a lot of time not in front of my TV but on a PC every day. I use IE for CCTV cameras but Chrome for everything else. When I open IE the 4x4 (16 camera) display is the home page. Nothing could be easier. Because it is a browser window I can change shape and size at will. I can choose to monitor 1,4,9 or 16 cameras. Watching 16 cameras in a browser is a load on the network but not so much on the CPU or GPU.
Thanks for the screen shot and for the reply.

My desktop monitor is 1680 x 1050, so it's less than my TV. Hence why I prefer my TV as one of the two viewing monitors.

So are you saying that with the dual HDMI out, you can tell the NVR to output HDMI 1 at one resolution, and HDMI 2 at another resolution?

And that's why using a splitter and then HDMI extender doesn't work, because the NVR will output the resolution through the HDMI at only one resolution?

I will suggest cat 6 then.

The installer also told me that other company installers might not use burial rated cat cables, and that they might go bad in 3-5 years. So to watch out for that.

The installer that came over for the evaluation told me right when he came over that his installation is expensive, which is why he doesn't do too many residential areas. But he seems to have a lot of knowledge about these things, especially with the dual HDMI out NVR.

He estimated 35 hours of labor for the installation (but he warned me during the meeting that he estimated about 3 days of labor).

I'm seeing what an estimate would be like with another installer who also uses Dahau parts, and how I like working with them after an initial estimate a few weeks ago. I'm seeing how they respond to my followups and how much I trust them too.
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post #46 of 69 Old 09-10-2017, 01:57 PM - Thread Starter
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This has been on the back of my mind.

If I move, how easy would it be to uninstall everything?

If I needed help installing it (as I don't have a ladder, and don't think I could do a good job with wiring, or going through the attic, etc.), would I also need help uninstalling everything?
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post #47 of 69 Old 09-11-2017, 01:51 AM
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nuraman00 > If I move, how easy would it be to uninstall everything?

Are you living in a rental?

Generally anything permanently attached stays with the house. So for example curtains go but curtains rods stay.

Using that logic cameras and wiring stay, you could take the NVR but why would you? You got paid for the house including the CCTV system.

Why would you remove wiring or cameras from a house? Why not take the copper plumbing too?

System: (2) NASs with 40TB of movies and music; Oppo 105D DAT and optical drive; Rotel RC-1590 Pre-Amp; Yamaha M2 power amp; Magnepan MG 3.7i speakers; 65" Samsung TV
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post #48 of 69 Old 09-11-2017, 06:28 AM - Thread Starter
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nuraman00 > If I move, how easy would it be to uninstall everything?

Are you living in a rental?

Generally anything permanently attached stays with the house. So for example curtains go but curtains rods stay.

Using that logic cameras and wiring stay, you could take the NVR but why would you? You got paid for the house including the CCTV system.

Why would you remove wiring or cameras from a house? Why not take the copper plumbing too?
No, I'm not living in a rental.

Thanks.

I was just wondering if I'd have to do all of this over again if I moved. It sounds like I'd have to install a CCTV system at the new residence too.

I was also just thinking maybe it's possible to remove the cameras but keep the wiring.
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post #49 of 69 Old 09-11-2017, 06:31 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Timothy Wright View Post
nuraman00>

> One thing he mentioned, when I asked about cat6, was that currently technology isn't close to the upper limits of cat 5. So he doesn't think we can get to the upper limits of cat6 anytime soon.

> So he recommended staying with cat 5.

> Thoughts?

I want to think your installer is correct in what he said: "currently technology isn't close to the upper limits of cat 5".

All my cameras are BNC, not IP. However resolution doubles every few years, five years after installing 8 cameras I went back and installed 8 more at double the resolution. So for my home network I pulled all cat 6 because much of the cost is in the labor of pulling the wire not in the wire itself. My home network all runs at gigabit speeds and that makes a huge difference pulling movies off the server. 10 Gigabit speeds are here now. Five or ten years from now when I upgrade to better cameras do I want to pull wire all over again? Forgetting the time value of money, if the difference of money between Cat 5 and Cat 6 is less than $100 why not future proof?

I'm 64 years old, many in my family live until they are in their mid 90's. I would not want to pull camera wire ever again. Yes in 30 years currently technology will be very different. Look at TVs, cars, cameras, and PC's 30 years ago. The cameras are a 5 year investment, the wiring is infrastructure intended to serve the life of the house.

nuraman00> A question about NVRs.

My NVR connects to my home network via IP. I can view my cameras with IE browser on any PC, (even a laptop connected via wifi). I can't watch my cameras on any TV because TV browsers can not specify a port setting in the URL. MY desktop PC sports a 55" VIZEO 4k display that I purchased for only $500.

Your installer is correct unless you do what I did, I use a browser to view cameras. In general the display resolution is limited to those supported by the NVR.

MY PC has an app to config and maintain the NVR, Once cameras and NVR are set up I avoid using the app. One bad touch of the mouse I can screw up settings that I'd rather not touch. So I use a browser not the app to simply monitor cameras.

(enclosed screen shot at 4K)

Software is determined by the NVR brand and model. So select wisely.

I spend a lot of time not in front of my TV but on a PC every day. I use IE for CCTV cameras but Chrome for everything else. When I open IE the 4x4 (16 camera) display is the home page. Nothing could be easier. Because it is a browser window I can change shape and size at will. I can choose to monitor 1,4,9 or 16 cameras. Watching 16 cameras in a browser is a load on the network but not so much on the CPU or GPU.
Just asking a question here.

Is it safe for @Timothy Wright to post pictures of what his camera is capturing? I know he didn't give out his address.

But just wondering what others think. Especially since we're on a security thread.

I did like the pictures, because it gave another example of what a reason person would do.
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post #50 of 69 Old 09-11-2017, 06:33 AM - Thread Starter
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Thanks for the screen shot and for the reply.

My desktop monitor is 1680 x 1050, so it's less than my TV. Hence why I prefer my TV as one of the two viewing monitors.

So are you saying that with the dual HDMI out, you can tell the NVR to output HDMI 1 at one resolution, and HDMI 2 at another resolution?

And that's why using a splitter and then HDMI extender doesn't work, because the NVR will output the resolution through the HDMI at only one resolution?


I will suggest cat 6 then.

The installer also told me that other company installers might not use burial rated cat cables, and that they might go bad in 3-5 years. So to watch out for that.

The installer that came over for the evaluation told me right when he came over that his installation is expensive, which is why he doesn't do too many residential areas. But he seems to have a lot of knowledge about these things, especially with the dual HDMI out NVR.

He estimated 35 hours of labor for the installation (but he warned me during the meeting that he estimated about 3 days of labor).

I'm seeing what an estimate would be like with another installer who also uses Dahau parts, and how I like working with them after an initial estimate a few weeks ago. I'm seeing how they respond to my followups and how much I trust them too.
Bump, @Timothy Wright . Can you help with this follow up question?

So is it a setting on the NVR, to tell it at what resolution to output to each NVR?
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post #51 of 69 Old 09-11-2017, 08:07 AM
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Your cameras and NVR limit your recorded resolution. That would be true even if you never watch the output. Should you download a mp4 file for court use on to a thumb drive the file resolution will be limited by the camera and NVR. If your camera resolution is higher than the resolution of your TV or monitor you may or may not get any image on your display. Because my monitor is double the resolution of any of my cameras and I use a browser (IE) my camera images are scaled.

> Is it safe for @Timothy Wright to post pictures of what his camera is capturing? I know he didn't give out his address.

You make me sorry I tried to help. The fact that have 16 over lapping cameras, a male rottweiler, an alarm system and a bad temper is already well known among the local gentry of my neighborhood. It is a few of many reasons why I feel pretty safe.

> I was just wondering if I'd have to do all of this over again if I moved. It sounds like I'd have to install a CCTV system at the new residence too.

Yes, the cameras are attached, unless yours are just laying there.

Why do all this to a house you are selling?

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post #52 of 69 Old 09-11-2017, 09:46 AM
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The default is that things which are fixtures are included in the sale, but you can always write exceptions into the contract - people frequently do that for chandeliers and other expensive light fixtures. I'm not sure where cameras would fall - true they are attached to the wall and attached to wire, but I'm quite sure that my TV which is mounted on the wall and attached to HDMI and Cat 6 cabling isn't assumed to be included in a sale - but perhaps I'm wrong. At any rate, you would just write exclusions for those things you want to take with you - your real estate lawyer and agent can help with that when the time comes.
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post #53 of 69 Old 09-11-2017, 08:00 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Timothy Wright View Post
Your cameras and NVR limit your recorded resolution. That would be true even if you never watch the output. Should you download a mp4 file for court use on to a thumb drive the file resolution will be limited by the camera and NVR. If your camera resolution is higher than the resolution of your TV or monitor you may or may not get any image on your display. Because my monitor is double the resolution of any of my cameras and I use a browser (IE) my camera images are scaled.

> Is it safe for @Timothy Wright to post pictures of what his camera is capturing? I know he didn't give out his address.

You make me sorry I tried to help. The fact that have 16 over lapping cameras, a male rottweiler, an alarm system and a bad temper is already well known among the local gentry of my neighborhood. It is a few of many reasons why I feel pretty safe.

> I was just wondering if I'd have to do all of this over again if I moved. It sounds like I'd have to install a CCTV system at the new residence too.

Yes, the cameras are attached, unless yours are just laying there.

Why do all this to a house you are selling?

Thanks again for all the answers.

There was a home invasion attempt last month, so I want to get a CCTV system so I feel more secure.

I don't have any plans to sell the house right now. But something could change in a few years. I also don't technically own the house, I'm renting from my parents (who live elsewhere). They are aware of my plans to get a camera system, and agree it's the right thing to do after what happened.

I guess I'm still wondering why if I record at 4 MP, and then use a HDMI splitter, why can't each viewing device scale the resolution itself? So why can't the 1080p TV scale it as necessary, and then the not-yet-purchased 4K monitor display it at 4 MP?

Or is there some setting on these dual HDMI NVRs that allow each port to output a different resolution?

https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/produ...nvr_4sata.html

I will also try contacting Dahau for answers, but this is one of those things where I want as many opinions / explanations as possible for confirmation.
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post #54 of 69 Old 09-11-2017, 08:01 PM - Thread Starter
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The default is that things which are fixtures are included in the sale, but you can always write exceptions into the contract - people frequently do that for chandeliers and other expensive light fixtures. I'm not sure where cameras would fall - true they are attached to the wall and attached to wire, but I'm quite sure that my TV which is mounted on the wall and attached to HDMI and Cat 6 cabling isn't assumed to be included in a sale - but perhaps I'm wrong. At any rate, you would just write exclusions for those things you want to take with you - your real estate lawyer and agent can help with that when the time comes.
Thanks.
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post #55 of 69 Old 09-11-2017, 08:42 PM - Thread Starter
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You make me sorry I tried to help. The fact that have 16 over lapping cameras, a male rottweiler, an alarm system and a bad temper is already well known among the local gentry of my neighborhood. It is a few of many reasons why I feel pretty safe.

Going off topic.

What made you choose a rottweiler? Was it because you like those dogs; or for security purposes; or both, or other?

What type of dogs did you have before?
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post #56 of 69 Old 09-12-2017, 05:13 AM
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> What made you choose a rottweiler?

I was looking for a puppy, I found one on pet finder. He was 10 weeks old, an Ohio farm dog, fawn colored, smooth coated with a racing strip, chest blaze and socks. He had a sweet face and huge paws. Turns out after doing the DNA Christopher is 3/8 rottweiler, 1/4 Husky, and then a grocery list of other breeds none more than a 1/8 of anything. A week or so after adopting Christopher my endocrinologist suggested that I may benefit from an alert dog. So I took to training Christopher. I might tell 1,000 stories about Christopher but in short he is not only the best dog I've ever owned but the most remarkable dog most people have ever met. Rotties are very smart, loyal, devoted and good natured with proper training. I often joke that he is having an affair with my mail lady. They really get along great together. Christopher is now 10.5 years old, very old for a dog his size. My heart is on alert knowing that while in may ways these are the best of our years together I know our time together is very limited.

> I guess I'm still wondering why if I record at 4 MP, and then use a HDMI splitter,

When you watch a live feed it is not any form of file, it is a live feed, it is raw signal.

Now after it has been recorded a TV can upscale but not down scale, so you could watch 720 feed on a 1080 TV but not the other way around.

Again using a browser avoids many of these issues because it auto scales so on a PC one types in the URL and Port and up pops the live feed.

The problem is on most TVs one can type in the url in the built in browser but the built in browser does not support "ports". That is why the only way to watch live feeds on your TV is the way the installer is recommending.

> What type of dogs did you have before?

Gatsby was a collie mix, he lived 15 years. Bismarck was an English yellow lab mix who also lived 15 years old. Both were excellent companions. Christopher in contrast is exceedingly well trained and works for a living. He goes every where with me, is highly social and very well received everywhere we go. He is not a guard dog but a watch dog at home. An aggressive dog can never be a service dog.
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post #57 of 69 Old 09-12-2017, 11:22 PM - Thread Starter
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> What made you choose a rottweiler?

I was looking for a puppy, I found one on pet finder. He was 10 weeks old, an Ohio farm dog, fawn colored, smooth coated with a racing strip, chest blaze and socks. He had a sweet face and huge paws. Turns out after doing the DNA Christopher is 3/8 rottweiler, 1/4 Husky, and then a grocery list of other breeds none more than a 1/8 of anything. A week or so after adopting Christopher my endocrinologist suggested that I may benefit from an alert dog. So I took to training Christopher. I might tell 1,000 stories about Christopher but in short he is not only the best dog I've ever owned but the most remarkable dog most people have ever met. Rotties are very smart, loyal, devoted and good natured with proper training. I often joke that he is having an affair with my mail lady. They really get along great together. Christopher is now 10.5 years old, very old for a dog his size. My heart is on alert knowing that while in may ways these are the best of our years together I know our time together is very limited.

> I guess I'm still wondering why if I record at 4 MP, and then use a HDMI splitter,

When you watch a live feed it is not any form of file, it is a live feed, it is raw signal.

Now after it has been recorded a TV can upscale but not down scale, so you could watch 720 feed on a 1080 TV but not the other way around.

Again using a browser avoids many of these issues because it auto scales so on a PC one types in the URL and Port and up pops the live feed.

The problem is on most TVs one can type in the url in the built in browser but the built in browser does not support "ports". That is why the only way to watch live feeds on your TV is the way the installer is recommending.

> What type of dogs did you have before?

Gatsby was a collie mix, he lived 15 years. Bismarck was an English yellow lab mix who also lived 15 years old. Both were excellent companions. Christopher in contrast is exceedingly well trained and works for a living. He goes every where with me, is highly social and very well received everywhere we go. He is not a guard dog but a watch dog at home. An aggressive dog can never be a service dog.
Thanks for sharing. Both pics are of Christopher, right?

So I contacted Steve from Dahau. He suggested having a network decoder next to each monitor.

http://www.dahuasecurity.com/en/us/p...s.php?pid=1584

The network decoder costs $957, I don't want to add more hardware if I don't have to.

When I asked about using the NVR model with the dual HDMI, he said "most likely yes".

Ok, so you're saying that I can watch a live feed on the 1080p TV. But once it's been recorded, if I was watching a recording from an earlier time, I wouldn't be able to watch it on the 1080p TV? Because it can't downscale from 4 MP to 1080p?

I do have a desktop which is also connected to the TV via HDMI. But my desktop's monitor is 1680 x 1050. So even if I were viewing my desktop browser through my PC, it would be viewing it at the desktop monitor's resolution, and not the 1080p TV resolution, right?

My TV doesn't have a built in browser anyways. So that's why I use the HDMI from the desktop to the TV when I'm streaming sports or movies from the PC and I want to watch it on the TV.

As I said earlier, this is one of those things I'm asking multiple people so I can get as much confirmation, or as much discussion, as possible. I'm trying not to rely on one person as the single source of truth. Because I want my setup to work as best as possible.
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post #58 of 69 Old 09-13-2017, 03:10 AM
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Thanks for sharing. Both pics are of Christopher, right?


** Correct - A few weeks ago Christopher crept up on a yearling buck hiding in the tall grass. Christopher has always known how to deactivate the predator body language. He had the deer so calm they were doing the nose to nose greeting. Christopher knows not to fight, he has learned that is my job.


So I contacted Steve from Dahau. He suggested having a network decoder next to each monitor.

http://www.dahuasecurity.com/en/us/p...s.php?pid=1584

The network decoder costs $957, I don't want to add more hardware if I don't have to.

When I asked about using the NVR model with the dual HDMI, he said "most likely yes".


** I have no first hand experience with any of those. I purchased my 4k 55" Vizio TV-Display at costco for $500. It has neither speakers nor tuner. It works great for me as a PC display.


Ok, so you're saying that I can watch a live feed on the 1080p TV.

**no - you will get a "format not supported" error message if the live feed is 3840 x 2160 **

But once it's been recorded, if I was watching a recording from an earlier time, I wouldn't be able to watch it on the 1080p TV? Because it can't downscale from 4 MP to 1080p?


** That is the way I would understand your situation. I think you are use 4 MP (4 mega pixel?, for my word 4k display 3840 x 2160 resolution) When I try that on my 1080 TV I simply get a message "format not supported." One could use a PC which is what I do, or use a i phone or a tablet or a notebook or a laptop over wifi if you have wifi in your house. For $957 I'd get a new i phone. I could watch cameras from anywhere in the house.


I do have a desktop which is also connected to the TV via HDMI. But my desktop's monitor is 1680 x 1050. So even if I were viewing my desktop browser through my PC, it would be viewing it at the desktop monitor's resolution, and not the 1080p TV resolution, right?


** Correct - In my experience a browser will re scale, but a TV will only up scale, never down scale, I watch 4 x 4 (16 cameras) 1080 cameras in IE on my 4k display attached to my PC.


My TV doesn't have a built in browser anyways. So that's why I use the HDMI from the desktop to the TV when I'm streaming sports or movies from the PC and I want to watch it on the TV.



** but you could get a laptop or notebook wifi into the network and HDMI from the notebook to the TV and not spend $1,000 for an adapter, and check your email at the same time and shop on Amazon in between threats to your safety. All my TV's are flat screen Samsung 1080p and feature built in browsers. I can type in a URL address but not the following port address (on my TVs) so I have given up using the TVs to watch my cameras. If I needed to do that I would buy a notebook or laptop, use the browser on the notebook and connect to the TV via HDMI. Look at ASUS laptops/notebooks on amazon. You can buy a older ROG model for ~ $1,000? A ROG model will have the graphics card helpful for rescaling camera resolution to display resolution with little effort. Fair notice using a wifi connection will have more time delay than a direct wire live feed. Perhaps even a second or two.

** RE Home invasions - With in hours of buying my home I had an expert locksmith replacing all my external locks on every door with commercial lock sets fitted with limited distribution key sets and adding commercial quality dead bolts. That means the HD locks and striker plates are very HD and the only way to kick in a door is to destroy the whole door and door frame. One can not get a key made for my home unless they go to a locksmith and their name is on the list of names I have approved. Only locksmiths can get the blank keys . You can do all that and make a home invasion much more difficult. That's not home automation but it is "home security 101".

** When a good locksmith installs good door locks they use 10" or 12" wood screws not 1.5" or 2" wood screws. That makes the lock part of the door and the striker plate part of the door frame. Ain't nobody gonna shoulder or kick in my door. Any door can be forced. To force my door one will need to destroy the whole door and door frame. I'd get a good locksmith first (let him install your locks, do not do it your self, tell him what you want) and spend $200 on locks before I'd spent $12,000 on a CCTV camera system. It will not stop a SWAT team but it it will stop most tourists cold in their tracks.


As I said earlier, this is one of those things I'm asking multiple people so I can get as much confirmation, or as much discussion, as possible. I'm trying not to rely on one person as the single source of truth. Because I want my setup to work as best as possible.

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Last edited by Timothy Wright; 09-13-2017 at 03:22 AM.
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post #59 of 69 Old 09-13-2017, 01:18 PM - Thread Starter
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Thanks for sharing. Both pics are of Christopher, right?


** Correct - A few weeks ago Christopher crept up on a yearling buck hiding in the tall grass. Christopher has always known how to deactivate the predator body language. He had the deer so calm they were doing the nose to nose greeting. Christopher knows not to fight, he has learned that is my job.

That's a great story with Christopher and the deer. Thanks for sharing. Did you take a pic?

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Ok, so you're saying that I can watch a live feed on the 1080p TV.

**no - you will get a "format not supported" error message if the live feed is 3840 x 2160 **

But once it's been recorded, if I was watching a recording from an earlier time, I wouldn't be able to watch it on the 1080p TV? Because it can't downscale from 4 MP to 1080p?


** That is the way I would understand your situation. I think you are use 4 MP (4 mega pixel?, for my word 4k display 3840 x 2160 resolution) When I try that on my 1080 TV I simply get a message "format not supported." One could use a PC which is what I do, or use a i phone or a tablet or a notebook or a laptop over wifi if you have wifi in your house. For $957 I'd get a new i phone. I could watch cameras from anywhere in the house.

I do have a desktop which is also connected to the TV via HDMI. But my desktop's monitor is 1680 x 1050. So even if I were viewing my desktop browser through my PC, it would be viewing it at the desktop monitor's resolution, and not the 1080p TV resolution, right?


** Correct - In my experience a browser will re scale, but a TV will only up scale, never down scale, I watch 4 x 4 (16 cameras) 1080 cameras in IE on my 4k display attached to my PC.
I had a typo in my post where I bolded it.

I meant to ask, if I am viewing my desktop browser from my PC to my TV via HDMI, will it use the TV's 1080p resolution?

And yes, when I say 4 MP, I mean 4 Mega pixel, since that's what the max camera resolution is at. So 2240x1680.

I'll confirm this with Steve from Dahau, but if he also says I can't view live directly from the NVR to the TV, then I'll remote view from the PC to the TV, and only get the 1 HDMI NVR model, which will be connected to the 4K display upstairs (not yet purchased) using the HDMI extender.

Right now, I want to keep the NVR downstairs. But maybe once the installer is inside the house, we can examine how I feel about keeping the NVR upstairs, and if I like that setup. Especially if I can only use the upstairs monitor for live viewing.


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Originally Posted by Timothy Wright View Post

** RE Home invasions - With in hours of buying my home I had an expert locksmith replacing all my external locks on every door with commercial lock sets fitted with limited distribution key sets and adding commercial quality dead bolts. That means the HD locks and striker plates are very HD and the only way to kick in a door is to destroy the whole door and door frame. One can not get a key made for my home unless they go to a locksmith and their name is on the list of names I have approved. Only locksmiths can get the blank keys . You can do all that and make a home invasion much more difficult. That's not home automation but it is "home security 101".

** When a good locksmith installs good door locks they use 10" or 12" wood screws not 1.5" or 2" wood screws. That makes the lock part of the door and the striker plate part of the door frame. Ain't nobody gonna shoulder or kick in my door. Any door can be forced. To force my door one will need to destroy the whole door and door frame. I'd get a good locksmith first (let him install your locks, do not do it your self, tell him what you want) and spend $200 on locks before I'd spent $12,000 on a CCTV camera system. It will not stop a SWAT team but it it will stop most tourists cold in their tracks.
These are good tips. Thanks.

The intruders broke a window (back yard). Luckily it was double-paned and they only got through the outside pane when I heard the loud noise (window breaking) and my alarm had also gone off.
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post #60 of 69 Old 09-13-2017, 01:43 PM
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a pro install of a basic 2 camera system hardwired w/backup gonna run at least around 1 grand...more cameras more money...just get better insurance policy. i actually like the little battery operated wireless cameras which I can turn on if I go away for weekend or on vacation. batteries last 30 days and i can see everything on the cloud or via phone.

https://www.amazon.com/Arlo-Pro-Secu...ss+camera+arlo

downside...my outdoor cams, birds set them off..or maybe thats good. if placed outdorrs maybe get stolen??? mine placed up high...changing batteries or recharging can be a pain/added cost. if I am home dont use...like i said only used if out of town.

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