Official Samsung LNxxA650 Owner's Thread - Page 304 - AVS Forum
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post #9091 of 23507 Old 05-18-2008, 03:58 AM
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Originally Posted by diabolyte View Post

here are also some shots of the clouds and possibly the purple haze. I tried to take pics so that they look almost exactly like how they would look through my eyes.

Did you see my pics? I'm concluding this is just how the set looks--not a defect of anyone's particular unit. Just a limitation of current LCD technology, and clearly better than other LCDs from what I've seen.

After I decided I really preferred backlight 2, and started to use auto Energy Saver, with cranked gamma, I've really become quited pleased with how the set looks. When I stepped back from hyper-critical mode, and just started enjoying the overall look of the set, everything's better

A key moment was watching a movie at my parents' on Mother's day--I had influenced them to get a 32" Sony S series because it came in a white bezel which my Mom was insisting on, and it fit their budget well. We watched just after sundown and the background blacks were just awful relative to my new A650. I had never noticed it when I first set it up for them, because my comparison TV at that time was Sharp from 2002. Now that I had the A650, the S series looked awful, and made my background blacks look like Plasma in comparison.

ÂSK
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post #9092 of 23507 Old 05-18-2008, 04:08 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by diabolyte View Post

here are also some shots of the clouds and possibly the purple haze. I tried to take pics so that they look almost exactly like how they would look through my eyes.

...eh that's some pretty bad clouding on that set.
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post #9093 of 23507 Old 05-18-2008, 04:14 AM
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Originally Posted by skibum5000 View Post

although raising gamma actually throws things off too (assuming gamma 0 is optimal). I would bet anything more than gamma +1 would start really bringing things out of standard spec.

best is to just get used to how BL2 or 3 look in a darkish (say maybe one 40 watt bulb behind the set type lighting) room and make sure contrast is set as high as possible without soft clipping. Back in the day, your old CRT wasn't any brighter than that, in fact, it was almost certainly dimmer than BL3 (assumign BL3 on 650 is similar to on 71 series).

Three things that change how black black is are:
back light - huge change
brightness/white balance combo, if you set brightness too high it raises black up, once you reach optimal level turning brightness down more doe snot make black and blacker though but does start black crushing away dark grays. what brightness level does what depends on how the white balance sliders are set, if they are all pulled like like say 4,4,4 instead of 15,15,15 then you need to set brightness higher, etc.
Note that you can't do anything tricky with brightness and white balance sliders to get things better than optimal though, once their ratio is balanced you will have it set to give as deep blacks as you can without inviting black crush of lighter shades. It turns out that using a test pattern to pick proper setting will gie you same thing as noticing the first brightness setting that makes black brighter and one click down from that.
so in the end, really only back light affects it (assuming optimal calibration of other settings, if you have these wrong with brightness/wb slider combo set too high you will rob how black your black gets though)

Hey Bum, thanks for that informative post.
Yeah, I've definitely decided backlight 2 is for me, along with Energy saving. I started experimenting with gamma when I saw it cranked to +3 in c|net's dark room settings (which I hated from a color balance perspective). I never really knew what gamma did, but once I discovered it had nothing to do with the sepia color balance of the c|net settings, I realized it was one of the few things that could increase the "pop" of the picture after I'd lowered the backlight, without lightening up my true blacks. I also noticed what you said about brightness--once I've dialed in my backlight and energy savings for the right black, then I take a blank screen, turn my brightness to 0, then advance it until I can see the black lightening, then I back off a click or two. That method usually leaves brightness somewhere in the mid 40s.

As for the white balance sliders, I just started with Evil4blue's settings, which are all 25 except red offset 26 and red gain 20. Then I decided to revert to red offset 25 and back off red gain to 21. So you're saying that if I set the offsets all to say 15 instead of 25, that will be essentially the same as lowering the brightness, yes? Sort of like on a stereo raising the volume, but lowering all the frequencies on a graphic equalizer will yield essentially no change?

ÂSK
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post #9094 of 23507 Old 05-18-2008, 04:16 AM
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FWIW, I have the 1003.M F/W build 4/9/2008. With the settings posted and power set to "auto" (which I think is key) i checked again...no purple, clouding, haze or anything. Nice, uniform, dark screen!!!

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post #9095 of 23507 Old 05-18-2008, 04:32 AM
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nice price drop on 52a650 today at Circuit City, after I was in the store yesterday and they matched the BB price. Today BB's is up, CC is down even lower. Competitive vs Big River. Might not last
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post #9096 of 23507 Old 05-18-2008, 06:31 AM - Thread Starter
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So I tried to put 1003.M on the first post. I copied and pasted the link that someone put on the last page. When I clicked on the link on his post it worked, but when i copied at pasted that link to the first post, it doesnt work. If anyone has any ideas let me know by PM
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post #9097 of 23507 Old 05-18-2008, 06:31 AM
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I know this question was answered before but I can't find original thread...here goes.

When I watch HD on Directv....even though I set AmP High it still says 60hz on top of screen.

What is even more confusing is that when I play blu-ray movie and I have Amp on high it says on the top 24hz?

I though it is supposed to show 120hz.............well at least on blu-ray movies.

Thanks for your help everyone.
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post #9098 of 23507 Old 05-18-2008, 06:32 AM
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I had a chance to work on one of these displays yesterday.

The results were very impressive post calibration. The color performance was very close to a Pioneer Elite plasma. The following report shows the measurements. This is definitely the best LCD I have worked on to date.

 

Samsung A650 Calibration Report.pdf 414.1982421875k . file
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post #9099 of 23507 Old 05-18-2008, 06:34 AM
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Just received my Samsung LN46A650A1F and this forum was invaluable in my purchasing decision. Not only did the report(s) that the spontaneous reboot problem had been solved but the information on Amazon's 30 day internal price match saved me an additional $36.50, so Thank You all.

First of all I used PaulLemonhead instructions for finding my firmware version and here it is exactly as listed on the bottom of my screen: MODULE:T-AMBAUSC-1003.M,DATE:PANEL:46A1,MICOM:T-AMBAUSM-1004RFS:T-AMBAUSC-20080212,2008-04-09

First of all the picture is gorgeous and I have none of the picture problems reported by some posters. No color saturation, bleeding, Purple tint, or "flashlight" artifacts. I will admit that I am hooked of my cable companies HDTV offerings since they are so beautiful and I find it hard to watch SD. In fact I called them up and upgraded my service to include ALL their HDTV offerings.

Sound is awesome and in fact the on board speaker system is louder than my Sony Home Theater System, HT-DDW790.

I did not receive the "scroll wheel" remote that everyone complains about. My TV came with an Ipod type center button remote. But that being said, the on screen menus are my only complaint about the A650. Some posters talk about playing games on this unit and if they want to play games then there is a built in one in my unit. In order to get the on screen menus I have to "catch" them as they scroll through. If I am not quick enough it will go to one below or above what I wanted, then of course I will have to hit RETURN to try again. The menus appear to "float" on the screen and this contributes to the problem. It is annoying but not a war stopper. I love the TV and recommend it without reservation

Finally, my only disappointment is that I cannot get my Harmony 520 remote to control the A650 since there is no provision for the SOURCE button on the 520 to mimic the SOURCE button on the supplied remote. Despite repeated attempt to "train" the 520 it will not be recognized by the A650.
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post #9100 of 23507 Old 05-18-2008, 06:53 AM
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Quote:
Finally, my only disappointment is that I cannot get my Harmony 520 remote to control the A650 since there is no provision for the SOURCE button on the 520 to mimic the SOURCE button on the supplied remote. Despite repeated attempt to "train" the 520 it will not be recognized by the A650.

I got my 880 to work with it. Key was to make sure I had allotted enough time on the Harmony for the 650 to power cycle and to use the direct button equivalent for inputs. Instead of selecting sources like you do with the Samsung remote I have the Harmony going straight to the source input. The Harmony database should have what these direct source input buttons are.
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post #9101 of 23507 Old 05-18-2008, 07:11 AM
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Originally Posted by camps23 View Post

I have it connected to a power bar is this bad ? Also what is that capsole that came with the TV that clips around a cable ? What should I buy to plug it in ?
Thanks for the help

Any ideas ?
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post #9102 of 23507 Old 05-18-2008, 07:56 AM
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I know this question was answered before but I can't find original thread...here goes.

When I watch HD on Directv....even though I set AmP High it still says 60hz on top of screen.

What is even more confusing is that when I play blu-ray movie and I have Amp on high it says on the top 24hz?

I though it is supposed to show 120hz.............well at least on blu-ray movies.

Thanks for your help everyone.
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post #9103 of 23507 Old 05-18-2008, 08:26 AM
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Weird. I noticed AMP stuttering on my set with the "m" firmware when I first got the set. I unplugged the set for a day and never noticed it again.

Now people are saying the latest firmware stutters even on low. I'm running the latest firmware with my AMP on high just for giggles and I've only noticed a slight stutter or small artifiact a few times over the course of several movies.

Independence Day looked absolutely phenomenal on this set, and I'm talking the regular DVD version (!).
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post #9104 of 23507 Old 05-18-2008, 08:42 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kolgar View Post

Weird. I noticed AMP stuttering on my set with the "m" firmware when I first got the set. I unplugged the set for a day and never noticed it again.

Now people are saying the latest firmware stutters even on low. I'm running the latest firmware with my AMP on high just for giggles and I've only noticed a slight stutter or small artifiact a few times over the course of several movies.

Independence Day looked absolutely phenomenal on this set, and I'm talking the regular DVD version (!).


Same here, I noticed more stuttering on my set with "m" firmware. Now on the latest firmware I rarely noticed stuttering when I set the AMP to high. Just curious...where you tip for unplugging the set for a day? Thanks.
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post #9105 of 23507 Old 05-18-2008, 08:43 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shastadad View Post

Finally, my only disappointment is that I cannot get my Harmony 520 remote to control the A650 since there is no provision for the SOURCE button on the 520 to mimic the SOURCE button on the supplied remote. Despite repeated attempt to "train" the 520 it will not be recognized by the A650.


I just bought the Sony RM-VL-600 remote from BB because I couldn't read the backlit display on the Harmony without my glasses. It's not as powerfull as the Harmony remotes and has no fancy display, but its able to work with everything I have and I've been able to customise the learning buttons to configure it the way I like. And you can't beat the price!

http://www.bestbuy.com/site/olspage....=1138083504542
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post #9106 of 23507 Old 05-18-2008, 08:49 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by umr View Post

I had a chance to work on one of these displays yesterday.

The results were very impressive post calibration. The color performance was very close to a Pioneer Elite plasma. The following report shows the measurements. This is definitely the best LCD I have worked on to date.

Awesome stuff! As I've said before, if Samsung can work out the manufacturing defects, this set is just the best LCD out there.
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post #9107 of 23507 Old 05-18-2008, 08:50 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by diabolyte View Post

here are also some shots of the clouds and possibly the purple haze. I tried to take pics so that they look almost exactly like how they would look through my eyes.

Not acceptable. I've finally gotten a 650 I can live with, and you should try to get a new one, too. My first ones looked like that and I almost cried.
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post #9108 of 23507 Old 05-18-2008, 09:01 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kolgar View Post

Weird. I noticed AMP stuttering on my set with the "m" firmware when I first got the set. I unplugged the set for a day and never noticed it again.

Now people are saying the latest firmware stutters even on low. I'm running the latest firmware with my AMP on high just for giggles and I've only noticed a slight stutter or small artifiact a few times over the course of several movies.

Independence Day looked absolutely phenomenal on this set, and I'm talking the regular DVD version (!).

Looks like the difference between judder before or after upgrade depends on AMP level used. 1003.m had absolutely no judder with AMP on Low, 2001.3 introduced judder for AMP on Low. So I suppose which firmware to run depends on what level you run AMP. AMP fans or haters, run at High or Off, it appears should upgrade. Those who like to run AMP at Low should run 1003.m. I'm in the latter camp.
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post #9109 of 23507 Old 05-18-2008, 09:17 AM
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I"m a firm believer in a total reset in service menu before upgrade or after. What are some thoughts on this? I know it is a hassell to go in an reset all of the menu setup but its like starting new again.
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post #9110 of 23507 Old 05-18-2008, 09:20 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stranx44 View Post

Hehe looks like we are in the same boat, as i've had my set for 2 days also. Curious have you tried playing with 24hz output to see if it will do 5:5 no-judder output on your computer?

Yes, I initially tried 24Hz. I really need to experiment with this more. The problem I had was when playing a movie with Media Player Classic with the system default renderer (VMR7), the audio and video would get out of sync quickly if you paused the movie or moved the movie window. I also tried every other renderer. No luck. Haalis's Renderer did not do this, but, when playing a 720p movie in full screen, there were scaling artifacts. In addition, I tried several codecs (cyberlink with and without DXVA, Coreavc, and my preferred one...ffdshow).

This of course leads me to many questions about pure 5:5 pulldown. Since all of these players and the mixture of codecs/renderers were designed to do 3:2 pulldown, as they assume we have a 60hz TV, wouldn't we need to find a way to turn off the 3:2 pulldown in order to get pure 5:5 pulldown? I have an ATI 2600xt card, and in the Avivo options in the Catalyst Control Center, there is a tick-box for 3:2 pulldown. However, if I understand how ATI and CCC works, this option assumes you are using DXVA. And for me, this is very inconsistent. It really was not rendering correctly for me. It seems that we would need to send the TV a pure 24fps (23.976) signal with the TV running at 24Hz, or a multiple thereof.

Ideas?

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post #9111 of 23507 Old 05-18-2008, 09:33 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dman99 View Post

I know this question was answered before but I can't find original thread...here goes.

When I watch HD on Directv....even though I set AmP High it still says 60hz on top of screen.

What is even more confusing is that when I play blu-ray movie and I have Amp on high it says on the top 24hz?

I though it is supposed to show 120hz.............well at least on blu-ray movies.

Thanks for your help everyone.



The set is always 120Hz (except for possibly in PC mode and Game mode but this is not confirmed)

The display you are seeing is the source signal. I don't believe this set will even accept 120Hz signal...not that there is much call for that anyways.

Bottom line...what you are seeing is normal and correct.

Datacide

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post #9112 of 23507 Old 05-18-2008, 10:01 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by umr View Post

I had a chance to work on one of these displays yesterday.

The results were very impressive post calibration. The color performance was very close to a Pioneer Elite plasma. The following report shows the measurements. This is definitely the best LCD I have worked on to date.

That would be my set. I am still amazed at the results not only on my display but also what Jeff did for my audio. People need to just invest in this service because believe me none of the settings in the 650 calibration thread were close to these resluts. I really appreciate the fact that Jeff explained everything he was doing and why. 1000% satisfied customer.
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post #9113 of 23507 Old 05-18-2008, 11:06 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dmcfan View Post

That would be my set. I am still amazed at the results not only on my display but also what Jeff did for my audio. People need to just invest in this service because believe me none of the settings in the 650 calibration thread were close to these resluts. I really appreciate the fact that Jeff explained everything he was doing and why. 1000% satisfied customer.

Can you describe a bit more how/why it looks better? I'm considering getting this done myself (nice marketing umr), but I'd like to hear a bit more than 'amazing' and '1000% satisfied'. Tell us what is better about it.

Back off man, I'm a scientist.
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post #9114 of 23507 Old 05-18-2008, 11:06 AM
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I am getting ready to pull the trigger on a 46" and have narrowed it down to either a 6 series or the 81 series. With the recent drops in pricing of the 81 it's now pretty much the same price or even lower at times, depending on where you get it. Are there any 6 series owners that have moved up from a 81 series who can give any insight if it was worth it? It seems that the 81 series owners have less complaints (mind you less owners) than 6 series owners.
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post #9115 of 23507 Old 05-18-2008, 11:12 AM
 
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I find this set to be little difficult to set up. Out of the box the picture is really out of wack.

What is the best method of getting this set dialed in?

Some of the settings posted here that I tried implementing left my picture a little more washed out than what I prefer. I don't like an overstatured picture, but I would like to see my reds and green come out little more.
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post #9116 of 23507 Old 05-18-2008, 11:14 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Auditor55 View Post

I find this set to be little difficult to set up. Out of the box the picture is really out of wack.

What is the best method of getting this set dialed in?

Some of the settings posted here that I tried implementing left my picture a little more washed out than what I prefer. I don't like an overstatured picture, but I would like to see my reds and green come out little more.

Get a calibration disk like HD DVE are Avia, or the free AVS709 disk available here on AVS (you can search for it). Or, get it professionally calibrated.

Back off man, I'm a scientist.
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post #9117 of 23507 Old 05-18-2008, 11:18 AM
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Anyone know why? Also do you know if the 32650 has a USB input?

I hope one of you can answer this for me. Also, what store is the "Big River'?
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post #9118 of 23507 Old 05-18-2008, 11:51 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WilliamG View Post

I've noticed the same things in 2001.3. Definitely stuttering with AMP on low.

Quote:
Originally Posted by sharkcohen View Post

That was my experience, as well. On 2001.3, I was getting stuttering and TBE artifacts even with AMP set to Low. I haven't seen these issues with AMP on Low on 1003.m, which is why I wanted to revert back.

Thanks for your help tigerfan33!

Quote:
Originally Posted by sd13 View Post

the new firmware maxes out the soap opera effect. Theres no need to go into the service menu anymore to get the highest possible soap opera effect out of the tv. the following is a chart of the service menu AMP levels for before and after the firmware upgrade. 32 being AMP off and 0 being AMP at full force.


Code:
                      1003.M             2001.3 fw

AMP-OFF               32                    32
LOW                   16                    12
MED                   13                    3
HIGH                  10                    0

Not surprised that people are noticing stutter on firmware 2001.3.

According to SD13's post, the AMP settings have been cranked up across the board. I added CODE tags to his table above, so it is a bit easier to read.

As you can see, low is now higher than Medium used to be. (Remember, a lower number = more aggressive AMP processing.)

If this bugs you, you might not need to downgrade. Another option you have would be to keep the new firmware but use the SM to reduce the AMP settings to those from 1003.M. (Do this by increasing the number....)

-Chris
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post #9119 of 23507 Old 05-18-2008, 12:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mikelets456 View Post

FWIW, I have the 1003.M F/W build 4/9/2008. With the settings posted and power set to "auto" (which I think is key) i checked again...no purple, clouding, haze or anything. Nice, uniform, dark screen!!!

With you, bpmurr and other stating power set to auto gives you a black screen, that just may be the fix for these cloudy sets, unless it is obnoxiously bad, in which case I would return until you get one half way decent.

52" Samsung 750, finally satisfaction
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post #9120 of 23507 Old 05-18-2008, 12:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by caa100 View Post

Not surprised that people are noticing stutter on firmware 2001.3.

According to SD13's post, the AMP settings have been cranked up across the board. I added CODE tags to his table above, so it is a bit easier to read.

As you can see, low is now higher than Medium used to be. (Remember, a lower number = more aggressive AMP processing.)

If this bugs you, you might not need to downgrade. Another option you have would be to keep the new firmware but use the SM to reduce the AMP settings to those from 1003.M. (Do this by increasing the number....)

Exactly. If you have some other issues fixed with the 2001, why not just go into the SM and lower AMP to previous levels,,,,best of both worlds.

52" Samsung 750, finally satisfaction
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