Official Samsung LNxxA650 Owner's Thread - Page 691 - AVS Forum
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post #20701 of 23507 Old 01-27-2009, 02:56 PM
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Originally Posted by Jagged1 View Post

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I often change the AMP to fit what I'm watching at the time. I wish it was a set and forget for AMP but it seems to be a personal preference vs what can I deal with situation.



And I wish there was a simple button to bring it up and easily toggle. Like you I switch based on content--football or sports and cg, high, movies and whatnot, off. Instead it is buried deep within the menu..
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post #20702 of 23507 Old 01-27-2009, 03:07 PM
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Originally Posted by dnk2112 View Post

So if the Samsung website calls it "AMP 120hz", and the info tab on the TV says 60hz, and the TV is supposedly always outputting 120hz, where do I find that information on the TV? I would trust Samsung's website and Amazon's for labeling it "AMP 120hz".

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Originally Posted by Mtnmike View Post

felonyr301" Is being way too nice trying to hold your hand on this. 120 hz is your TV's refresh rate!! There is no "outputting" involved!!!!!!!!!! As a matter of fact to educate yourself as to exactly what AMP is, or what the advantage of a 120 hz refresh rate on an HDTV is, do yourself a favor and run a search on both in AVS and Google. Pay close attention to 3:2 pulldown and 5:5 pulldown while you are at it. How hard can it really be???????

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Originally Posted by felonyr301 View Post

My god it's 120hz always... its the same as when you put your old crt pc monitor at 120hz or 85hz it doesn't matter what you have it on since nothing is being thrown that's 120 everything is either 60 or below so it will never show 120hz when clicking on the tv tab thingy on what is giving out.

For example when gaming on your pc crt monitor when you have it on 60hz and the game never goes higher than 58 frames per second and then you put the monitor at 120hz and play the same game guess what it would look exactly the same.

120hz vs 60hz on lcd tend to help out in the motion blur department which is good. Amp is just a feature that is able to be used because the lcd tv is always refreshing at 120hz compared to 60hz like normal and benefits the user more when it comes to fast scenes and stuff.

It's adding an extra frame in between what's really there. The problem is that sometimes it gives out the soap opera effect and since the tv is guessing the extra frame it also sometimes gives out the triple ball effect (artifacts) when something really fast happens.

Read this.

http://pages.samsung.com/us/hd/innov_120hz.html

120Hz and AMP are both needed to get the desired effect but are separate "features" and are unrelated other than there "dependence" on one another. One is hardware related (120Hz panel) while the other is firmware/software related (AMP).
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post #20703 of 23507 Old 01-27-2009, 03:35 PM
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Originally Posted by gmanvbva View Post

Read this.

http://pages.samsung.com/us/hd/innov_120hz.html

120Hz and AMP are both needed to get the desired effect but are separate "features" and are unrelated other than there "dependence" on one another. One is hardware related (120Hz panel) while the other is firmware/software related (AMP).

It doesn't say anything I haven't or others have been saying...

AMP reduces motion blur even further more than what 120hz panel did when compared to 60hz panels. People are assuming that AMP is 120hz and when turned off the panel is back to 60hz or basically not 120hz which is not the case here.

The effect of AMP being on is the soap opera looking video thing which can be weird or annoying to some on certain video content while also at the expense of causing some artifacts too which is called the triple ball effect; the higher the setting of AMP the less motion blur while also more noticeable artifacts can come into effect like the above mentioned TBE.

*EDIT* I see what you trying to say but I already knew that; the function AMP can only be done with the 120hz panels and not when the panels were 60hz.

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post #20704 of 23507 Old 01-27-2009, 03:39 PM
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Originally Posted by felonyr301 View Post

Uh whats your point??? It doesn't say anything I haven't or others have been saying...

It wasn't directed at you! I was simply quoting the whole conversation to keep it in context!

I was providing an explanation straight from Samsung, since your explanation (and others) were being questioned due to Amazon's (and other sites) marketing information.
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post #20705 of 23507 Old 01-27-2009, 03:41 PM
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Originally Posted by gmanvbva View Post

Read this.

http://pages.samsung.com/us/hd/innov_120hz.html

120Hz and AMP are both needed to get the desired effect but are separate "features" and are unrelated other than there "dependence" on one another. One is hardware related (120Hz panel) while the other is firmware/software related (AMP).


Ok, so since there is no source I have nearby that outputs 120hz into my TV I won't see it on any info screen, correct? So that means that the TV is just 120 hz to start with and the AMP can't run without a 120 hz refresh rate? Strange but makes sense I suppose.

Oh, and P.S. - Mellow out! Some of you guys sound like the Comic Book Store guy from the Simpsons for chrissakes.
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post #20706 of 23507 Old 01-27-2009, 03:47 PM
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So I got my new screen installed. It seems noticably less glossy which is alright for me. Still has gloss just not as much. Bad thing is it's worse with flashlighting and clouding than the original. Now it's all over the screen. The service guys saw it too and is ordering a new one. So I need to wait a week or two for that one to com in now. I can never just get something once. It's usually 3 to 4 times before I get one that works,

SNSGUY
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post #20707 of 23507 Old 01-27-2009, 03:51 PM
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Originally Posted by dnk2112 View Post

Ok, so since there is no source I have nearby that outputs 120hz I can't see it on any info screen, correct? So that means that the TV is just 120 hz to start with? Strange but makes sense I suppose.

A very simple explanation.

The TV operates at 120Hz (120 frames per second) but since no source (currently) offers 120 frames (120Hz) the AMP feature creates these extra (60) frames and adds them to the signal.

Normally you would get
Source Frame x120

With 120hz AND AMP you get this. (Remember they are separate)

Source Frame
AMP Frame
Source Frame
AMP Frame
Source Frame
AMP Frame
Source Frame
AMP Frame
repeated to achieve 120 frames/sec versus 60 frames/sec.

Simple Comparison
AMP ---- No AMP
Source Frame ---- Source Frame
AMP Frame ------- Previous Source Frame Repeated
Source Frame ---- Source Frame
AMP Frame ------- Previous Source Frame Repeated
Source Frame ---- Source Frame
AMP Frame ------- Previous Source Frame Repeated
Source Frame ---- Source Frame
AMP Frame ------- Previous Source Frame Repeated
Source Frame ---- Source Frame
AMP Frame ------- Previous Source Frame Repeated
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post #20708 of 23507 Old 01-27-2009, 04:00 PM
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Originally Posted by gmanvbva View Post

A very simple explanation.

The TV operates at 120Hz (120 frames per second) but since no source (currently) offers 120 frames (120Hz) the AMP feature creates these extra (60) frames and adds them to the signal.

Normally you would get
Source Frame x120

With 120hz AND AMP you get this. (Remember they are separate)

Source Frame
AMP Frame
Source Frame
AMP Frame
Source Frame
AMP Frame
Source Frame
AMP Frame
repeated to achieve 120 frames/sec versus 60 frames/sec.

Simple Comparison
AMP ---- No AMP
Source Frame ---- Source Frame
AMP Frame ------- Previous Source Frame Repeated
Source Frame ---- Source Frame
AMP Frame ------- Previous Source Frame Repeated
Source Frame ---- Source Frame
AMP Frame ------- Previous Source Frame Repeated
Source Frame ---- Source Frame
AMP Frame ------- Previous Source Frame Repeated
Source Frame ---- Source Frame
AMP Frame ------- Previous Source Frame Repeated

I wasn't trying to sound like a d**k or rude sorry about that man I edited and seen what u was trying to do...

Comic book guy lmao funny thing is that i can sound just like him and friends laugh their head off when I answered back and corrected a teacher with the right answer with comic book guys voice. Oh good ol days of high school...

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post #20709 of 23507 Old 01-27-2009, 04:25 PM
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Originally Posted by snsguy View Post

So I got my new screen installed. It seems noticably less glossy which is alright for me. Still has gloss just not as much. Bad thing is it's worse with flashlighting and clouding than the original. Now it's all over the screen. The service guys saw it too and is ordering a new one. So I need to wait a week or two for that one to com in now. I can never just get something once. It's usually 3 to 4 times before I get one that works,

SNSGUY

your luck sounds like mine, what model and size do you have? I may have returned my 46a650 for a problem that could have been cable company signal. I didn't see anything wrong with the picture except the problem with verticle bars about an inch wide down the left side. How do you check for flashlights and clouding etc. purple haze ? I didn't see any bui8t maybe I didn't look right.
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post #20710 of 23507 Old 01-27-2009, 04:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gmanvbva View Post

A very simple explanation.

The TV operates at 120Hz (120 frames per second) but since no source (currently) offers 120 frames (120Hz) the AMP feature creates these extra (60) frames and adds them to the signal.

Normally you would get
Source Frame x120

With 120hz AND AMP you get this. (Remember they are separate)

Source Frame
AMP Frame
Source Frame
AMP Frame
Source Frame
AMP Frame
Source Frame
AMP Frame
repeated to achieve 120 frames/sec versus 60 frames/sec.

Simple Comparison
AMP ---- No AMP
Source Frame ---- Source Frame
AMP Frame ------- Previous Source Frame Repeated
Source Frame ---- Source Frame
AMP Frame ------- Previous Source Frame Repeated
Source Frame ---- Source Frame
AMP Frame ------- Previous Source Frame Repeated
Source Frame ---- Source Frame
AMP Frame ------- Previous Source Frame Repeated
Source Frame ---- Source Frame
AMP Frame ------- Previous Source Frame Repeated

This would be for 60Hz material, right? For 24Hz material, each frame would be repeated 5x, and for 30Hz material, each frame would be repeated 4x.
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post #20711 of 23507 Old 01-27-2009, 07:40 PM
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Originally Posted by snsguy View Post

So I got my new screen installed. It seems noticably less glossy which is alright for me. Still has gloss just not as much. Bad thing is it's worse with flashlighting and clouding than the original. Now it's all over the screen. The service guys saw it too and is ordering a new one. So I need to wait a week or two for that one to com in now. I can never just get something once. It's usually 3 to 4 times before I get one that works,

SNSGUY

ah, your luck sounds like mine as well. im having horrible issues with all laptops ive been getting...this ones back for a return too

question, how did you show samsung your problem? my tech couldnt recreate the problem because the idiot came when it was bright and the tv was cold...he said the receptionist never gave him the info i gave them.
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post #20712 of 23507 Old 01-27-2009, 09:14 PM
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Originally Posted by rebs View Post

your luck sounds like mine, what model and size do you have? I may have returned my 46a650 for a problem that could have been cable company signal. I didn't see anything wrong with the picture except the problem with verticle bars about an inch wide down the left side. How do you check for flashlights and clouding etc. purple haze ? I didn't see any bui8t maybe I didn't look right.

I also have the 46A650. Mine was visible anytime we watched anything that had dark scenes. Beg one, the Dark Knight. I had what looked like a flashlight being shined from inside the tv. Now that I have the new one it's in the right upprer corner and there is clouding allalong the bottom of the screen. If your watching a dark movie you can't miss those things. Some people say it doesn't bother them but for the money that I paid for it, it bothers me. Luckilty I have a good Samsung Service guy that thins the same.

SNSGUY
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post #20713 of 23507 Old 01-27-2009, 09:15 PM
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Originally Posted by test123455 View Post

ah, your luck sounds like mine as well. Im having horrible issues with all laptops ive been getting...this ones back for a return too :d

question, how did you show samsung your problem? My tech couldnt recreate the problem because the idiot came when it was bright and the tv was cold...he said the receptionist never gave him the info i gave them.

laptops????????????????
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post #20714 of 23507 Old 01-27-2009, 09:17 PM
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Originally Posted by Test123455 View Post

ah, your luck sounds like mine as well. im having horrible issues with all laptops ive been getting...this ones back for a return too

question, how did you show samsung your problem? my tech couldnt recreate the problem because the idiot came when it was bright and the tv was cold...he said the receptionist never gave him the info i gave them.

I didn't have to. He told me so many people had called about that tv frequently that he knew I wasn't making it up. I have blinds, curtains to block a lot of light from getting in. And the new one was so bad that it didn't even matter. It's cleary visible even with the lights on.

SNSGUY
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post #20715 of 23507 Old 01-27-2009, 09:20 PM
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Hello all!

I've been debating back and forth with myself for quite some time, and I have finally decided to purchase my LN46A650 to replace a Westinghouse 32" that I've had for a few years.

Overall, I am extremely pleased with the TV, except for one annoyance, which I'm leaving to all you experts to decide whether or not it's a major problem or not! It's a problem that needs to be fixed, or else the TV will need to be returned. However, I do not know if it is a defect in my screen, or if it is something a simple setting could fix. I've done a search on AVS about it, but I haven't been able to find anyone with an issue relating to mine. Hopefully I simply overlooked the answer somewhere, and what I describe will come with an obvious answer from someone!

Essentially, the issue is that anywhere on the screen where there may be a slight hue of red, the red lines and spots begin appearing in that area, causing the screen to look *weird* and messed up. The red spots and streaks appear towards the edge of the red area, and somewhat flicker in the process. Even when I pause the video feed, the red dots and lines still have a flicker to them.

I've only tried it on the HDMI3 port, with the same HDMI cable. However, I've tried both standard cable and high-def cable from my Motorola cable box, as well as a Blu-Ray movie from my PS3. Both video feeds experienced the same red lines and dots.

It's hard to describe, so I've attached a picture, along with a video describing it on YouTube. The video may take a short while to process, since I just uploaded it.

If at all possible, I would prefer to not have to return this TV. The place that I purchased it from does not have anymore in stock, nor are they going to be getting any in for awhile; nor do I have a vehicle that I can transport the TV in. I had to have someone help me pick it up today! So, I'm sort of out of luck, if I cannot get this fixed without having to return it.

I do not have the current configuration settings on the TV with me at the moment. I left them all at the default settings that they were when I first turned on the TV. If you would like those, please let me know, and I'll get the settings as soon as I get a chance, and hopefully that will help if needed.

Here is a link to the YouTube video of the TV's flicker (even while the video is paused):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R1xG6Pa-QTs

Thanks so much!
LL
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post #20716 of 23507 Old 01-27-2009, 10:02 PM
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Originally Posted by snsguy View Post

I didn't have to. He told me so many people had called about that tv frequently that he knew I wasn't making it up. I have blinds, curtains to block a lot of light from getting in. And the new one was so bad that it didn't even matter. It's cleary visible even with the lights on.

SNSGUY

mine said he never heard of it! same with the people from samsung!
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post #20717 of 23507 Old 01-27-2009, 10:09 PM
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Originally Posted by Test123455 View Post

mine said he never heard of it! same with the people from samsung!

That they have never heard of flashlighting or clouding? There idiots if they don't know anything about that, but most likely they just say that. When I called Smasung told the service guy something completely different then I had even told them. It was the servie guy who knew exactly what I was talking about. Samsung didn't say they did or didn't know in my case.

SNSGUY
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post #20718 of 23507 Old 01-28-2009, 02:16 AM
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Originally Posted by snsguy View Post

I also have the 46A650. Mine was visible anytime we watched anything that had dark scenes. Beg one, the Dark Knight. I had what looked like a flashlight being shined from inside the tv. Now that I have the new one it's in the right upprer corner and there is clouding allalong the bottom of the screen. If your watching a dark movie you can't miss those things. Some people say it doesn't bother them but for the money that I paid for it, it bothers me. Luckilty I have a good Samsung Service guy that thins the same.

SNSGUY

Thank you for your reply, I understand the flashlight effect now, mine did not have that but I never viewed the tv in a dark room. We watched 6 or 8 bluray movies and didn't see any flashlight effect even in dark scenes. What is the clouding, can you describe it ?

I think I am regretting taking the set back because of verticle bars that could have been cable related, but couldn't be sure it wasn't an intermitent problem with the tv. I am getting another 46a650 as soon as they get more in. I just hope I don't get one with these other problems.

Btw I didn't get much help from samsung's service either when I called, it was like talking to a guy and then a woman who was in front of a book and would look up the problem and they couldn't stress enough that if the tech didn't find a problem with the tv then they would charge me for a service call. They couldn't find anything about my particular problem.

Bob
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post #20719 of 23507 Old 01-28-2009, 03:44 AM
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Originally Posted by rebs View Post

Thank you for your reply, I understand the flashlight effect now, mine did not have that but I never viewed the tv in a dark room. We watched 6 or 8 bluray movies and didn't see any flashlight effect even in dark scenes. What is the clouding, can you describe it ?

I think I am regretting taking the set back because of verticle bars that could have been cable related, but couldn't be sure it wasn't an intermitent problem with the tv. I am getting another 46a650 as soon as they get more in. I just hope I don't get one with these other problems.

Btw I didn't get much help from samsung's service either when I called, it was like talking to a guy and then a woman who was in front of a book and would look up the problem and they couldn't stress enough that if the tech didn't find a problem with the tv then they would charge me for a service call. They couldn't find anything about my particular problem.

Bob

Sorry to hear that. I'm hoping I don't regret getting a different tv either. I love picture and the look of the tv. I just one without all the flashlights and clouding. Clouding is exactly what it sounds like it's the exact same thing as flashlights except it looks just like a cloud or mist on the tv. It usually is more in the middle of the tv where flashlighting is on the edges or corners of the tv.

SNSGUY
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post #20720 of 23507 Old 01-28-2009, 04:51 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by steven_mckenz View Post

Hello all!

I've been debating back and forth with myself for quite some time, and I have finally decided to purchase my LN46A650 to replace a Westinghouse 32" that I've had for a few years.

Overall, I am extremely pleased with the TV, except for one annoyance, which I'm leaving to all you experts to decide whether or not it's a major problem or not! It's a problem that needs to be fixed, or else the TV will need to be returned. However, I do not know if it is a defect in my screen, or if it is something a simple setting could fix. I've done a search on AVS about it, but I haven't been able to find anyone with an issue relating to mine. Hopefully I simply overlooked the answer somewhere, and what I describe will come with an obvious answer from someone!

Essentially, the issue is that anywhere on the screen where there may be a slight hue of red, the red lines and spots begin appearing in that area, causing the screen to look *weird* and messed up. The red spots and streaks appear towards the edge of the red area, and somewhat flicker in the process. Even when I pause the video feed, the red dots and lines still have a flicker to them.

I've only tried it on the HDMI3 port, with the same HDMI cable. However, I've tried both standard cable and high-def cable from my Motorola cable box, as well as a Blu-Ray movie from my PS3. Both video feeds experienced the same red lines and dots.

It's hard to describe, so I've attached a picture, along with a video describing it on YouTube. The video may take a short while to process, since I just uploaded it.

If at all possible, I would prefer to not have to return this TV. The place that I purchased it from does not have anymore in stock, nor are they going to be getting any in for awhile; nor do I have a vehicle that I can transport the TV in. I had to have someone help me pick it up today! So, I'm sort of out of luck, if I cannot get this fixed without having to return it.

I do not have the current configuration settings on the TV with me at the moment. I left them all at the default settings that they were when I first turned on the TV. If you would like those, please let me know, and I'll get the settings as soon as I get a chance, and hopefully that will help if needed.

Here is a link to the YouTube video of the TV's flicker (even while the video is paused):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R1xG6Pa-QTs

Thanks so much!

Try a different HDMI cable, if that doesn't help you should exchange the set, or have Samsung service it.

Back off man, I'm a scientist.
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post #20721 of 23507 Old 01-28-2009, 06:06 AM
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Originally Posted by sharkcohen View Post

Try a different HDMI cable, if that doesn't help you should exchange the set, or have Samsung service it.

There is no way the HDMI cable could cause that kind of problem. We're talking about a digital signal, not analog.

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post #20722 of 23507 Old 01-28-2009, 06:14 AM
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I had the 46 inch took it back...thought it was hurting my eyes.....go the 40 inch 650...same problem...its not the size its just the tv killing my eyes for whatever reason....so i took it back. I am trying my luck with a 630 because the guy at best buy says that the glossy screen maybe be creating that floating soap opera effect. Yes i have AMP set to OFF. I couldnt deal with it anymore. I hope that the 630 will cure my eye strain. What sucks is they are on back order for so long that if it shows on on feb 21st like they say...i will have only 4 days to make up my mind if i want it or want to take it back. You know...its funny...when i got that 650 i was like wow damn that looks good...then i went back to my 2.5 year old 42 inch pioneer plasma and im like ohhhh i can see the difference....now the more i watch it im like hummm...maybe i should just keep it lol screw the LCD. on the other hand...its hotter than hell in my room with the plasma...have to worry about ghost images...it hums when it gets hot and its only 1080I.

Oh well the saga continues..........
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post #20723 of 23507 Old 01-28-2009, 06:22 AM
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There is no way the HDMI cable could cause that kind of problem. We're talking about a digital signal, not analog.

So would you guess that something was wrong with the TV then?
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post #20724 of 23507 Old 01-28-2009, 07:45 AM
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I agree with Shark. I would try to verify that is indeed the panel or something else. I would try a different HDMI cable, and try different HDMI inputs with each of the cables. If the problem persist on all inputs and cables, then it is the panel. If it does not hopefully you can narrow it down to the cable... easy fix. If it is one of the inputs (or the panel) then I would take it back.
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post #20725 of 23507 Old 01-28-2009, 07:55 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by steven_mckenz View Post

So would you guess that something was wrong with the TV then?

Yes. Look, the HDMI cable is carrying a stream of 1s and 0s. There is no way a bad cable could selectively affect only the bits that represent red hues.

How does the picture look when viewing tuner input? I would try that before fiddling with the HDMI cable.

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post #20726 of 23507 Old 01-28-2009, 08:02 AM
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There is no way the HDMI cable could cause that kind of problem. We're talking about a digital signal, not analog.

It doesn't hurt to try swapping out the cable, and I have seen bad hdmi cables do strange things. It may be a digital signal, but it is still an electrical transmission

It's more likely a problem with the set, and will require repair or exchange. But I believe my previous post already inferred that.

Back off man, I'm a scientist.
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post #20727 of 23507 Old 01-28-2009, 08:09 AM
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?????
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post #20728 of 23507 Old 01-28-2009, 08:13 AM
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?????

That's dependent on the quality of the HD cable service, but a good HD source looks fantastic on these sets.

Back off man, I'm a scientist.
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post #20729 of 23507 Old 01-28-2009, 09:37 AM
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I am in Canada, and am trying to order a Samsung Linkstick WIS-08BG. I called Samsung Canada and they told me I couldn't order one yet because the service is not functioning in Canada yet. Is this true?
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post #20730 of 23507 Old 01-28-2009, 10:02 AM
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good news, the tech said my photo was what i needed to authorize a panel change, and amazon says that they will extend my exchange/return date in case i need a new one or want to return it if im still not satisfied. yayaya...hopefully this new one has no flashlights...i dont care so much about the clouds.

i suppose if this all fails in a few months i will go led.
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