Official LNXXA650 Calibration/Settings Thread - Page 19 - AVS Forum
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post #541 of 3905 Old 06-14-2008, 10:10 PM
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If the 1000.M firmware works for you then stick to it. The least amount of adjustments the less negative stress.

Toonces produced nice pictures to highlight his calibrations. He did awesome work. I'm not sure which calibration people are leaning towards but CNET, evil4blue and Toonces' settings seem to be the more popular ones. For me I'm using my own calibrations (6.08.08) which can be found here. So far I've received positive feedback from the people who saw my set. Still, everything's a matter of preference so try them all, tweak a setting or a few and see which you like.
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post #542 of 3905 Old 06-15-2008, 10:26 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rumeck View Post

If the 1000.M firmware works for you then stick to it. The least amount of adjustments the less negative stress.

Toonces produced nice pictures to highlight his calibrations. He did awesome work. I'm not sure which calibration people are leaning towards but CNET, evil4blue and Toonces' settings seem to be the more popular ones. For me I'm using my own calibrations (6.08.08) which can be found here. So far I've received positive feedback from the people who saw my set. Still, everything's a matter of preference so try them all, tweak a setting or a few and see which you like.

I could not agree more: Set your gray scale correctly and if it all works and you like the image, then leave it alone. I hate quoting trite cliches, but never fix what's not broken.

Also, do not use my settings for the v1000.m firmware. When I updated to version 2001.3 many options changed significantly. The settings I've posted are only for the v2001.3 firmware. The CNet settings were very close for me with the v1000.m.

-Toonces

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post #543 of 3905 Old 06-15-2008, 01:51 PM
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Ah, that explains why EvilBlue's settings work better on my 1003.M firmware rather than yours Toonces! I thought I was doing something wrong Also, I am sort of confused on your format for the settings Toonces. Color Space has colors R, G, B, Y, Cyan, Magenta with each color having: Red, Green, and Blue settings for each.

On your settings, you only have Red, Green, and Blue under Color Space with R, G, B, Y, C, M for White Space, which only should have RGB offsets/gains.

Also, does anyone have access to znutz's settings? his link doesn't seem to be active anymore from post http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...2#post13700932

Thanks guys!
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post #544 of 3905 Old 06-15-2008, 03:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Toonces T. Cat View Post

I could not agree more: Set your gray scale correctly and if it all works and you like the image, then leave it alone. I hate quoting trite cliches, but never fix what's not broken.

Also, do not use my settings for the v1000.m firmware. When I updated to version 2001.3 many options changed significantly. The settings I've posted are only for the v2001.3 firmware. The CNet settings were very close for me with the v1000.m.

-Toonces

Your the only one I seen who used Cool1 color temp for calibration. Everyone else eho used calibration devices had either Warm1 or Warm2.
You used DVE & your colors were accurate?
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post #545 of 3905 Old 06-15-2008, 03:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cr0t3x View Post

Also, I am sort of confused on your format for the settings Toonces. Color Space has colors R, G, B, Y, Cyan, Magenta with each color having: Red, Green, and Blue settings for each.

On your settings, you only have Red, Green, and Blue under Color Space with R, G, B, Y, C, M for White Space, which only should have RGB offsets/gains.

Thanks guys!

You make a good point and I need to clarify it. On "Color Space" Red, Green, and Blue are the primaries. Yellow is 50/50 Green and Red...Cyan is 50/50 Green and Blue...and Magenta is 50/50 Red and Blue. So, a default will look like this:

Red = Red-50 Blue-0 Green-0

Green = Red-0 Blue-0 Green-50

Blue = Red-0 Blue-50 Green-0

Yellow = Red-50 Blue-0 Green-50

Cyan = Red-0 Blue-50 Green-50

Magenta = Red-50 Blue-50 Green-0

My only change was to the Red which was bumped up by 5 points. Everything else is at default and I should have added lines for Yellow, Cyan and Magenta, but I got lazy so I left them out...My bad...

When I revise the chart, I will add them in.

On "White Balance" everything was at default initially, and only the Red shifted after 100 hours of use. Why I listed Cyan, Yellow and Magenta here, I have no clue. Call it a brain-fart. They should read Red, Blue, and Green Gain and all are still at the default setting of 25...At least I didn't screw that part up.

Thanks for the good catch...I will fix it as soon as I have few minutes.

-Toonces

"I wasn't born in Texas, but I got here as fast as I could."

-Archie Whippet
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post #546 of 3905 Old 06-15-2008, 03:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wtfer View Post

Your the only one I seen who used Cool1 color temp for calibration. Everyone else eho used calibration devices had either Warm1 or Warm2.
You used DVE & your colors were accurate?

Yep...I may have a panel that's not in line with everyone else's. Look at the images I posted earlier. I'm very happy with the results with it set at Cool-1. Normal does not look bad, but Warm-1 is very obviously not right on my set.

-Toonces

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post #547 of 3905 Old 06-15-2008, 04:12 PM
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My apologies to all...That was just idiotic on my part. Thank you very much cr0t3x for catching the errors. I really appreciate it. I post this stuff to help people and not to confuse them...

The faulty sheet has been replaced here...None of the numbers were wrong, just the nomenclature:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...8#post14083448

-Toonces

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post #548 of 3905 Old 06-15-2008, 04:26 PM
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No worries Toonces! I just wanted to make sure I was using your settings correctly. I will be switching back and forth between yours and Evil4Blue's settings and see which I like better

I had to upgrade to 2001.3 firmware as my set at the Surround Sound memory setting On/Off problem. Thus, i don't know if Evil4Blue's settings for 1003.M will work correctly on my set anymore. Since I still have my A550, compared to Clicq's excellent A550 settings on the 550 calibration thread, Evilblue's settings look a little yellow-ish. Clicq's settings give the skin tones and overall pictures a more red push to them.

I will report back with which settings work better, and thanks Toonces for his effort and help in putting his settings up!

Thanks again guys,
cr0
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post #549 of 3905 Old 06-15-2008, 05:17 PM
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I'm now messing with the Movie settings (starting from the Movie default). I'm experimenting with the Warm 1 and 2 settings as compared to Normal which I've been doing all this time. I'm moving my concentration from flesh tones to shadows and blacks.
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post #550 of 3905 Old 06-16-2008, 02:38 AM
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Ouch. This thread, Samsung LCD calibration misstep is quite a nightmare.

Version #3: My (current) settings for Samsung LNxxA650
Let's make this clear: Calibration IS NOT synonymous with copying settings!
Join the Samsung LCD Owners Social Group! :)
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post #551 of 3905 Old 06-16-2008, 05:53 PM
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After going through the posts it seems as if people are trying to get the fullest blacks and at the same time display shadows accurately. I know Rumeck and something he said kind of struck me so I wanted to test it out. Has anyone tried to calibrate from black levels on up?

Without messing with Color Space and White Balance I adjusted the settings to show complete black. Settings are...

Picture
Mode: Standard
Backlight: 0
Contrast: 0
Brightness: 0
Sharpness: 0
Color: 50
Tint: G50/R50

Detailed Settings
Black Adjust: High
Dynamic Contrast: Off
Gamma: -3
Color Space: Native
White Balance (default)
Flesh Tone: 0
Edge Enhancement: Off

Picture Options
Size: Just Scan
Digital NR: Auto
HDMI Black Level: Low
Film Mode: Off
Blue Only Mode: Off
Auto Motion Plus: Low

I'm picking various scenes that are dark. I'll up the settings only as necessary until I see shadows and other detail comfortably. Starting from this setup should be fun.

Click here for the calibration results.

Version #3: My (current) settings for Samsung LNxxA650
Let's make this clear: Calibration IS NOT synonymous with copying settings!
Join the Samsung LCD Owners Social Group! :)
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post #552 of 3905 Old 06-16-2008, 07:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gmo0ve View Post

Ouch. This thread, Samsung LCD calibration misstep is quite a nightmare.

As mishap-prone as I seem to be, I'm thanking my lucky stars I never felt tempted to access the service menu. It's hidden for a reason, and one never can tell the impact future firmware updates will have.
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post #553 of 3905 Old 06-16-2008, 07:56 PM
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Without making light of their situation, it's not that easy getting into those on/off settings in the Service Menu. I went in there myself and while it looks overwhelming it's not that bad. There's only one reason I can think of to go to the Service Menu and that's to adjust the judder settings for the AMP. If you can navigate the User Menu the Service Menu will not be any more difficult.

Version #3: My (current) settings for Samsung LNxxA650
Let's make this clear: Calibration IS NOT synonymous with copying settings!
Join the Samsung LCD Owners Social Group! :)
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post #554 of 3905 Old 06-16-2008, 11:20 PM
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Click here for my current settings. You'll love it.




Calibrations for Firmware: 1003.M
+Options that aren't listed are set at their original settings.
++For standard DVD upconverted 1080i use.

1. Calibration Name: Mid Tone

Picture
Mode: Movie
Backlight: 3
Contrast: 87
Brightness: 48
Sharpness: 24
Color: 42
Tint: G62/R38

Detailed Settings
Black Adjust: Off
Dynamic Contrast: Low
Gamma: +2

Color Space: Custom
Red: 45 21 0
Yellow: 38 23 0

White Balance
R-Offset: 23
G-Offset: 21
B-Offset: 17
R-Gain: 28
G-Gain: 18
B-Gain: 29

Flesh Tone: +5
Edge Enhancement: Off

Picture Options
Color Tone: Warm1
Size: Just Scan
Digital NR: Low
HDMI Black Level: Low
Film Mode: Auto
Blue Only Mode: Off
Auto Motion Plus: Low

------------------

2. Calibration Name: Naturally Toned Down

Picture
Mode: Movie
Backlight: 4
Contrast: 87
Brightness: 48
Sharpness: 24
Color: 52
Tint: G46/R54

Detailed Settings
Black Adjust: Off
Dynamic Contrast: Low
Gamma: +3

Color Space: Custom
Red: 37 0 0
Green: 0 52 0
Blue: 0 0 42
Yellow: 72 67 0
Cyan: 0 73 65
Magenta: 45 0 7


White Balance
R-Offset: 20
G-Offset: 16
B-Offset: 19
R-Gain: 20
G-Gain: 25
B-Gain: 27

Flesh Tone: 0
Edge Enhancement: Off
xvYCC: Off

Picture Options
Color Tone: Warm2
Size: Just Scan
Digital NR: Low
HDMI Black Level: Low
Film Mode: Auto
Blue Only Mode: Off
Auto Motion Plus: Low


------------------


(Optional) Service Menu Settings:
Film Judder Off = 32
Film Low (all 4) = 15 <-- sweet spot setting (in effect when AMP is set to Low)
Film Medi (all 4) = 11
Film High (all 4) = 7




--Thanks cr0t3x & matt123906114640 for helping me test.

---Calibration in process...

Version #3: My (current) settings for Samsung LNxxA650
Let's make this clear: Calibration IS NOT synonymous with copying settings!
Join the Samsung LCD Owners Social Group! :)
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post #555 of 3905 Old 06-17-2008, 01:33 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gmo0ve View Post

Result: Natural tones, details and shadows.
Firmware: 1003.M

Picture
Mode: Movie
Backlight: 4
Contrast: 93
Brightness: 37
Sharpness: 0
Color: 43
Tint: G55/R45

Detailed Settings
Black Adjust: Low
Dynamic Contrast: Low
Gamma: +3
Color Space: Custom

White Balance
R-Offset: 23
G-Offset: 21
B-Offset: 11
R-Gain: 27
G-Gain: 17
B-Gain: 13

Flesh Tone: 0
Edge Enhancement: Off

Picture Options
Color Tone: Warm1
Size: Just Scan
Digital NR: Low
HDMI Black Level: Normal
Film Mode: Auto
Blue Only Mode: Off
Auto Motion Plus: Low

What are your custom color space settings?
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post #556 of 3905 Old 06-17-2008, 01:50 AM
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That was the last thing I was going to work on until I saw the results of what I had without it. I have it to Custom as an indication that I may change those settings. For now I'll leave it at the original settings until I see something that should be adjusted. Still, it will be left at Custom.

What I'm finding in LCDs are the way they display the primary colors, mainly the blues. While the colors are bright, they seem somewhat artificial at the preset settings. To address it while keeping color consistency is to tone down the colors but to do so aggressively. Notice the Color, Tint and White Balance as they are all over the place.

Right now I'm watching my TV in a different way, details and colors I haven't noticed before. I don't know how the settings will work with any firmware other than 1003.M but try it and see if it works for you.

Version #3: My (current) settings for Samsung LNxxA650
Let's make this clear: Calibration IS NOT synonymous with copying settings!
Join the Samsung LCD Owners Social Group! :)
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post #557 of 3905 Old 06-17-2008, 01:58 AM
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post #558 of 3905 Old 06-17-2008, 02:17 AM
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Hey Gmo0ve. I have firmware 2001.3 and your settings provide a nice vibrant color, but are inaccurate on this firmware version. Color matching with my CRT, suits that were black with gray stripes looked brown with yellowish-brown stripes, things of that nature.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dessie View Post

Have a look at these. http://www.hdtvtest.co.uk/Samsung-LE40A656/Settings.htm

Dessie, any idea why they use HDMI Black at "Normal"? Are they using Component to set up their settings, in which case HDMI black is grayed out at "Normal"? Am I correct in stating that I've noticed no matter what, HDMI black level at "normal", while using an actual HDMI connection, causes very washed out blacks and a overall "wash out" of the picture?

With an HDMI connection, it seems that unless you are using your PC with the Sammy, you need to have black level at "Low".

Thanks guys,
cr0
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post #559 of 3905 Old 06-17-2008, 02:38 AM
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Thanks cr0t3x for checking it out. I wonder if I can scale the settings to suit firmware 2001.3. If the adjustments are needed for the blacks and grays then the settings may not be far off.

Quote:
Originally Posted by cr0t3x View Post

Hey Gmo0ve. I have firmware 2001.3 and your settings provide a nice vibrant color, but are inaccurate on this firmware version. Color matching with my CRT, suits that were black with gray stripes looked brown with yellowish-brown stripes, things of that nature.



Dessie, any idea why they use HDMI Black at "Normal"? Are they using Component to set up their settings, in which case HDMI black is grayed out at "Normal"? Am I correct in stating that I've noticed no matter what, HDMI black level at "normal", while using an actual HDMI connection, causes very washed out blacks and a overall "wash out" of the picture?

With an HDMI connection, it seems that unless you are using your PC with the Sammy, you need to have black level at "Low".

Thanks guys,
cr0

I think if the DVD player is set to YCrCb the HDMI Black Level on the Samsung will be grayed out. If you use RGB then I think you can set the HDMI Black Level at Low. It's also not necessary to set it to Low if you adjust the Black Level and Dynamic Contrast. With either setting if the calibrations are set accurately you won't be able to tell the difference between YCrCb and RGB.

Version #3: My (current) settings for Samsung LNxxA650
Let's make this clear: Calibration IS NOT synonymous with copying settings!
Join the Samsung LCD Owners Social Group! :)
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post #560 of 3905 Old 06-17-2008, 05:57 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cr0t3x View Post

Dessie, any idea why they use HDMI Black at "Normal"? Are they using Component to set up their settings, in which case HDMI black is grayed out at "Normal"? Am I correct in stating that I've noticed no matter what, HDMI black level at "normal", while using an actual HDMI connection, causes very washed out blacks and a overall "wash out" of the picture?

With an HDMI connection, it seems that unless you are using your PC with the Sammy, you need to have black level at "Low".

Thanks guys,
cr0

I've used these SD settings on my UK 656 with the exceptions being that the HDMI Black Level is set to 'Low' (otherwise the results are as you've noted), and Colour Tone is set to Warm1 to avoid a slight red push which also throws greyscale out of whack. Otherwise, on my set, the Custom Colour Space settings bring fantastic results. The HD settings are another matter for two reasons; firstly I have no BD player, and secondly, certainly on SD sources, there appears to be a distinct yellow push (I'm afraid I didn't view it on broadcast HD).
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post #561 of 3905 Old 06-17-2008, 10:27 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bmac1632 View Post

New PS3 owner - what video settings do you guys have on for BR movies (Cross Color Reduction Filter, RGB Full Range, Y Pb/Cb Pr/Cr Super White)?

BR Movies -
RGB Limited
BD / DVD Video Output Format (HDMI) = Y Pb / Cb Pr / Cr or Auto
Y Pb / Cb Pr / Cr Super-White (HDMI) = On


Cross Color Reduction Filter - Reduce color noise when the system is connected using an AV cable (composite) or S VIDEO cable. Straight from the horses mouth so if you're not using either of these then I wouldn't worry about it.
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post #562 of 3905 Old 06-17-2008, 01:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dessie View Post

Have a look at these. http://www.hdtvtest.co.uk/Samsung-LE40A656/Settings.htm

I tried these, and the results were awful. There were so many changes, however, that I decided to "Reset Picture" and redo the settings from default.

Before I started, however, I noticed the picture, still using the Default Movie settings following the reset. WOW. HELLO! I realized then and there that the default settings were actually very good to begin with.
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post #563 of 3905 Old 06-17-2008, 01:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gmo0ve View Post

I think if the DVD player is set to YCrCb the HDMI Black Level on the Samsung will be grayed out.

That is correct, in my case set to "Normal", which works fine.
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post #564 of 3905 Old 06-17-2008, 03:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Transcend View Post

That is correct, in my case set to "Normal", which works fine.

Just to make sure: If we are using HDMI with RGB, set HDMI Black to "Low", and if we are using HDMI with YCrCb, then it'll be grayed out to "Normal".

I can definitely say that with RGB, HDMI black at "Normal" looks ugly and totally unnatural!

Thanks guys,
Soham

P.S: I've been messing around with calibration settings with my A650 for a couple days. Anyone suggest a good template to work off? I wanted to use Evil4Blue's, but his settings were for 1003.M firmware, and I have 2001.3. It seems like he's MIA for a while, so I can't ask him!
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post #565 of 3905 Old 06-17-2008, 03:26 PM
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It's not necessary to set HDMI Black Level to low. All of the black settings/dynamic contrast/brightness/contrast work together. You can accomplish the same look with different combinations.

For me, I'm testing HDMI Black Level at normal so I'm able to reduce the brightness. There's a lot of factors to consider such as room lighting though when I look at many calibrations offered the brightness is set high. Personally, at this time, I don't think it should be more than 49. When I set HDMI Black Level to normal the brightness worked well at 37. However, if you were to set HDMI Black Level to low a balanced setting for brightness will be around 49 (with 47-51 range). That latter setting might actually work better with firmware 2001.3 as it may fix the black wash outs. It's a matter of taste at that point.

Version #3: My (current) settings for Samsung LNxxA650
Let's make this clear: Calibration IS NOT synonymous with copying settings!
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post #566 of 3905 Old 06-17-2008, 03:52 PM
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What HDMI Black Level should be set to is entirely device dependent.

Back off man, I'm a scientist.
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post #567 of 3905 Old 06-17-2008, 04:14 PM
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I'd like that option if you can individually customize it for each device. As example, instead of auto there are options of low, normal. I'd like a sliding bar where you can actually set the black levels.

Version #3: My (current) settings for Samsung LNxxA650
Let's make this clear: Calibration IS NOT synonymous with copying settings!
Join the Samsung LCD Owners Social Group! :)
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post #568 of 3905 Old 06-17-2008, 05:08 PM
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HDMI Black Level can be set different for each HDMI input, and even if you're using an HDMI switch to send all your devices to one input, you can still set HDMI Black Level differently for each device. It is completely, totally device dependent for the currently connected device on an HDMI input.

HDMI Black Level is not a black level control, it is for setting the correct color/levels space that is being output by your source device. It needs to be set properly or you will find yourself monkeying around with all the other brightness/black settings to try to correct the issue of not having your levels space correct. HDMI Black Level is not a Brightness setting.

This is one setting that has nothing to do with what looks right to you. It has to be set correctly. If your source device is outputting video levels (e.g. a DVD player), HDMI Black Level should be set to Low, and if it is outputting PC levels (e.g. a laptop), HDMI Black Level should be set to Normal.

Back off man, I'm a scientist.
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post #569 of 3905 Old 06-17-2008, 06:08 PM
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Originally Posted by Gmo0ve View Post

Result: Natural tones, details and shadows.
Firmware: 1003.M

Picture
Mode: Movie
Backlight: 4
Contrast: 93
Brightness: 37
Sharpness: 0
Color: 43
Tint: G55/R45

Detailed Settings
Black Adjust: Low
Dynamic Contrast: Low
Gamma: +3
Color Space: Custom

White Balance
R-Offset: 23
G-Offset: 21
B-Offset: 11
R-Gain: 27
G-Gain: 17
B-Gain: 13

Flesh Tone: 0
Edge Enhancement: Off

Picture Options
Color Tone: Warm1
Size: Just Scan
Digital NR: Low
HDMI Black Level: Normal
Film Mode: Auto
Blue Only Mode: Off
Auto Motion Plus: Low

I tried out your settings and so far i like what im seeing. but jus wondering why you calibrated around HDMI black level set to normal i thought that was for PC inputs. dont you think you can get better results working around it set to low
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post #570 of 3905 Old 06-17-2008, 06:14 PM
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Originally Posted by sharkcohen View Post

HDMI Black Level can be set different for each HDMI input, and even if you're using an HDMI switch to send all your devices to one input, you can still set HDMI Black Level differently for each device. It is completely, totally device dependent for the currently connected device on an HDMI input.

HDMI Black Level is not a black level control, it is for setting the correct color/levels space that is being output by your source device. It needs to be set properly or you will find yourself monkeying around with all the other brightness/black settings to try to correct the issue of not having your levels space correct. HDMI Black Level is not a Brightness setting.

This is one setting that has nothing to do with what looks right to you. It has to be set correctly. If your source device is outputting video levels (e.g. a DVD player), HDMI Black Level should be set to Low, and if it is outputting PC levels (e.g. a laptop), HDMI Black Level should be set to Normal.

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Version #3: My (current) settings for Samsung LNxxA650
Let's make this clear: Calibration IS NOT synonymous with copying settings!
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