Official LNXXA650 Calibration/Settings Thread - Page 3 - AVS Forum
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post #61 of 3905 Old 03-30-2008, 08:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wtfer View Post

Wow very cool if true.

Can you clarify a few more things. You mentioned something about a firmware upgrade from Samsung, what did it do exactly. Also how would you compare the black levels & contrast of the A650 compared to any of the recent sets you tested?
A lot of people are saying the previous Samsung 71f LCD had better looking contrast & black levels were just as good, would you agree?

It seems less aggressive in AMP than before upgrading, and corrects few bugs including erasing 'favorite channels'.

Regarding contrast ratio, 71F's dynamic CR's are better in my measurement.
But A650 is better in panel's static CR with turning off any dynamic backlight control.
71F(Korean Model# F81BD)'s Max CR measured 27525:1(even better than Samsung's own 25000:1 spec) and then blacks read 0.012 nits that time.
That's close to Pioneer Kuro's blacks(0.013 cd/m² initially, 0.006 cd/m² after few seconds)
On the other hands, A650's max dynamic CR is limited to around 10K to 1, still better static CR than 71F.

Most new TV's from any major brand, IMO, have enough blacks and CR's unless you're watching it in a darkened room
A650 has around 2000 to 1 non-dynamic, static CR.(2291 : 1 for my measurement)
And that's pretty good enough and better than 71F, I think.
I assume Samsung changed their dynamic backlight control algorithm less aggressively this time and that's why 71F has more CR.
But A650's panels static CR's higher than 71F.

I'm not satisfied with A650's black uniformity, though.
Usually Samsung and Sony's PVA panels are better in black levels and uniformities comparing to LG's IPS panels.
A650 is still slightly better than LG's, but not as good as previous Samsung models.

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Originally Posted by capa2000 View Post

Why are some setting not available to change? Is it because I am using HDMI? Can't select some settings like Warm2 and some settings are grayed out all together. Why is this?

C

If you want to choose Warm1&2, picture mode should be 'Movie', not 'Standard' or 'Vivid'.
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post #62 of 3905 Old 03-31-2008, 03:30 AM
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Hi Podol,
Thank you for sharing the details of your test!
Just curious if you got a chance to compare the XBR4 with the 5271?
If so, what was your preference?
Thanks!
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post #63 of 3905 Old 03-31-2008, 05:35 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jehanzeb View Post

Hi Podol,
Thank you for sharing the details of your test!
Just curious if you got a chance to compare the XBR4 with the 5271?
If so, what was your preference?
Thanks!

Hi, XBR4's X3000, and XBR5 is X3500 in Korean model#.
Yes, I reviewed XBR4.
xx71 and A650 have advantages in slightly sharper image and less noise over XBRs, IMO.
But I prefer Sony's Motion Flow to Samsung AMP, especially at 'Off' position.
If you watch both TV's with FRC mode 'Low' most of time, however, they'll be neck and neck.
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post #64 of 3905 Old 03-31-2008, 07:27 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Podol View Post

Hi, XBR4's X3000, and XBR5 is X3500 in Korean model#.
Yes, I reviewed XBR4.
xx71 and A650 have advantages in slightly sharper image and less noise over XBRs, IMO.
But I prefer Sony's Motion Flow to Samsung AMP, especially at 'Off' position.
If you watch both TV's with FRC mode 'Low' most of time, however, they'll be neck and neck.

What about the 71 and the 650. Which one would you prefer out of those two sets? Which one do you think has more of an advantage? I love them both, just wanting to find out which one is a better choice.
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post #65 of 3905 Old 03-31-2008, 11:58 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Podol View Post

Hi, XBR4's X3000, and XBR5 is X3500 in Korean model#.
Yes, I reviewed XBR4.
xx71 and A650 have advantages in slightly sharper image and less noise over XBRs, IMO.
But I prefer Sony's Motion Flow to Samsung AMP, especially at 'Off' position.
If you watch both TV's with FRC mode 'Low' most of time, however, they'll be neck and neck.

In regards to more noise on the XBR4, this is what I saw as well but was unsure if it was confined to this particular set I was looking at the local Fry's.
Thank you for confirming!
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post #66 of 3905 Old 04-01-2008, 03:12 PM
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Any of you guys try Planet earth on HDDVD with a A30 player? The picture looks horrible. I cant figure what it is. Could it be the 1080i being downscaled for the TV?

The cave episode is what I watched and it looked like i was streaming it off you tube. The blacks where moving with pixels of purples and blues... just wrong.

Other wise EVERYthing else looks amazing. Even other films on HDdvd... disappointing planet earth looks poor.
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post #67 of 3905 Old 04-01-2008, 03:29 PM
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Love the set on good feed high def channels (ESPN, Fox, HD Discovery). Some of my high def channels are so-so...but that's the feed, not the set.

Dislike the Standard def viewing...colors seem out of whack even when they are calibrated perfectly for high def channels. It's like a pick your poison thing. My provider (Charter in CT) does not offer alot of high def stations so we are stuck watching some non-digital SD stuff. See alot of green when watching SD even when color on 49/51 (G/R) setting.

Come on Feb 2009!!!

Chris
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post #68 of 3905 Old 04-01-2008, 06:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Podol View Post

Most new TV's from any major brand, IMO, have enough blacks and CR's unless you're watching it in a darkened room
A650 has around 2000 to 1 non-dynamic, static CR.(2291 : 1 for my measurement)
And that's pretty good enough and better than 71F, I think.
I assume Samsung changed their dynamic backlight control algorithm less aggressively this time and that's why 71F has more CR.
But A650's panels static CR's higher than 71F.

Your static contrast ratio measurements on the A650 are in great agreement with what Samsung published in a 2006 paper when they talked about new advances in their S-PVA technolgy. I have attached the contrast ratio plot from that paper here.

The previous generation of S-PVA panels used on the 71 series has a contrast ratio of less than 1,500 according to an earlier Samsung technical paper. So that agrees well with what you measured, too.

I think your Dynamic Contrast measurement on the A650 is lower because of the new "Speed Backlight" feature that supposedly doubles the flicker rate. Perhaps you have to measure Dynamic Contrast in a different way, or Samsung just made up these numbers .
LL

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post #69 of 3905 Old 04-01-2008, 08:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by clau View Post

Your static contrast ratio measurements on the A650 are in great agreement with what Samsung published in a 2006 paper when they talked about new advances in their S-PVA technolgy. I have attached the contrast ratio plot from that paper here.

The previous generation of S-PVA panels used on the 71 series has a contrast ratio of less than 1,500 according to an earlier Samsung technical paper. So that agrees well with what you measured, too.

I think your Dynamic Contrast measurement on the A650 is lower because of the new "Speed Backlight" feature that supposedly doubles the flicker rate. Perhaps you have to measure Dynamic Contrast in a different way, or Samsung just made these numbers .

xx71F's static CR was 1223:1(at backlight 5) and 1191:1(at backlight 10) on my measurement.
In regards to A650's Dynamic CR, I suspected Speed Backlight as a culprit, too
I asked about it and developer said 'the' different way.
According to him, you should use both 'Dynamic Contrast' and 'Energy Saving' features simultaneously for measuring max CRs
I tried it, still no more than around 10K to 1, however
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post #70 of 3905 Old 04-01-2008, 11:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Podol View Post

xx71F's static CR was 1223:1(at backlight 5) and 1191:1(at backlight 10) on my measurement.
In regards to A650's Dynamic CR, I suspected Speed Backlight as a culprit, too
I asked about it and developer said 'the' different way.
According to him, you should use both 'Dynamic Contrast' and 'Energy Saving' features simultaneously for measuring max CRs
I tried it, still no more than around 10K to 1, however

Strange, I thought CR was measured how wide the measurements are between how deep a black TV can get from how bright a white it can get.

So the new A650 measured worse than the 71f in black levels or in white levels?
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post #71 of 3905 Old 04-01-2008, 11:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Podol View Post

xx71F's static CR was 1223:1(at backlight 5) and 1191:1(at backlight 10) on my measurement.
In regards to A650's Dynamic CR, I suspected Speed Backlight as a culprit, too
I asked about it and developer said 'the' different way.
According to him, you should use both 'Dynamic Contrast' and 'Energy Saving' features simultaneously for measuring max CRs
I tried it, still no more than around 10K to 1, however

It seems kind of odd that the measurement for the 71's Dynamic contrast came out to more then what samsung advertised, and the 650's Dynamic contrast came out to 40k less.
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post #72 of 3905 Old 04-02-2008, 05:30 AM
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Question for you tweakers out there. I am still not 100% satisfied with my settings as I still seem to get a bit of a gray "haze" to the pic even on hi def stations. What I mean is, it can sometimes look like there is a light layer of gray haze overlayed on top of the pic. I know that doesn't make sense. And it appears on some of my hi def channels too...not just SD. The Yankee game on YES last night was stellar. So maybe it is the quality of the feed? Any settings to offset this?

I have changed settings which increase black levels and my contrast is up to 92. Backlight is up to 6 or 7 now, after using 3 for a while. My brightness is down to 42.

Is there a specific setting I should be changing to combat this? Again, some channels are just stellar with no hint of this, while others it is very prevalent.

Also, I am using Upconvert2 on my Explorer 8300HDC STB and a Normal pic format. Obviously, the box can handle all aspect ratios.

Thanks for any tips!

Chris
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post #73 of 3905 Old 04-02-2008, 09:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by capa2000 View Post

Question for you tweakers out there. I am still not 100% satisfied with my settings as I still seem to get a bit of a gray "haze" to the pic even on hi def stations. What I mean is, it can sometimes look like there is a light layer of gray haze overlayed on top of the pic. I know that doesn't make sense. And it appears on some of my hi def channels too...not just SD. The Yankee game on YES last night was stellar. So maybe it is the quality of the feed? Any settings to offset this?

I have changed settings which increase black levels and my contrast is up to 92. Backlight is up to 6 or 7 now, after using 3 for a while. My brightness is down to 42.

Is there a specific setting I should be changing to combat this? Again, some channels are just stellar with no hint of this, while others it is very prevalent.

Also, I am using Upconvert2 on my Explorer 8300HDC STB and a Normal pic format. Obviously, the box can handle all aspect ratios.

Thanks for any tips!

Chris

my first answer would be to decrease brightness, but you have already got it low enough. Have you tried turning on Dynamic Contrast to see if that helps? I noticed this same thing the other day with the first 650 I saw, but figured it could be fixed with the brightness setting,,,,, maybe not.

Edit: you might also want to see what happens when you drop your gamma level.

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post #74 of 3905 Old 04-02-2008, 09:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by metal83 View Post

It seems kind of odd that the measurement for the 71's Dynamic contrast came out to more then what samsung advertised, and the 650's Dynamic contrast came out to 40k less.

Not just that, I don't see twice the static ratio (1,200 to about 2,400) between the two sets either. In fact, from viewing the tv, I thought the 71 might have slightly better blacks,,,hell, who knows.

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post #75 of 3905 Old 04-03-2008, 02:54 AM
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Quote:


I think your Dynamic Contrast measurement on the A650 is lower because of the new "Speed Backlight" feature that supposedly doubles the flicker rate. Perhaps you have to measure Dynamic Contrast in a different way, or Samsung just made up these numbers .

Speed Backlight? Please tell more.

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post #76 of 3905 Old 04-03-2008, 05:36 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by studdad View Post

my first answer would be to decrease brightness, but you have already got it low enough. Have you tried turning on Dynamic Contrast to see if that helps? I noticed this same thing the other day with the first 650 I saw, but figured it could be fixed with the brightness setting,,,,, maybe not.

Edit: you might also want to see what happens when you drop your gamma level.

Thanks Studdad. You know what seems to help? I had Energy Savings on Auto. When I selected Low it darkened the pic a bit. That seems to be a big help for my set. I already had my Gamma at -1.

I think I am going to download and burn the GetGray Calibration sw and take a shot to see how "off" my set is out of factory.

Chris
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post #77 of 3905 Old 04-03-2008, 11:42 AM
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Hey guys, I just got this set and its great. However, I'm having trouble unlocking the 3D soap opera effect with my current settings. My girlfriend and I bought the set because we love the effect, but it's no where near as prominent as on the 71f. If you have the calibrations to kick it up without going into the Service Menu, I'd really appreciate it. thanks.
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post #78 of 3905 Old 04-03-2008, 11:50 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by crackedwriter View Post

Hey guys, I just got this set and its great. However, I'm having trouble unlocking the 3D soap opera effect with my current settings. My girlfriend and I bought the set because we love the effect, but it's no where near as prominent as on the 71f. If you have the calibrations to kick it up without going into the Service Menu, I'd really appreciate it. thanks.

The only way you can acheive that look is by uping the AMP in the service menu. It was toned down in this model.
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post #79 of 3905 Old 04-03-2008, 12:52 PM
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More of a general question:

What exactly does the sharpness control do in an LCD like this? For argument's sake, why shouldn't I turn it to 0?
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post #80 of 3905 Old 04-03-2008, 12:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vrolokus View Post

More of a general question:

What exactly does the sharpness control do in an LCD like this? For argument's sake, why shouldn't I turn it to 0?

From what I recall the sharpness setting will only affect a component (or lower?) connection. On HDMI it will have no effect. Please correct me if I'm wrong though as I'm going by memory.
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post #81 of 3905 Old 04-04-2008, 05:57 AM
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Not sure if this means anything, but when trying to calibrate the set a bit more last night, I switched from Standard mode to Dynamic. Made a few tweaks on contrast and brightness and went back to watching Yankee game. A few mins later I got my first reset after more than a week of owning the set.

Went back to Standard mode with all previous changes intact and no more resets for rest of the night.

C
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post #82 of 3905 Old 04-04-2008, 09:00 PM
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New firmware, 1003.g is available for the 650 series Samsung TVs. Here is he link:

http://www.samsung.com/us/support/do...sp_nm=LN52A650

Download the file, unzip and place the folder inside of a thumbdrive storage device. Plug device into the side of your TV and go to software update.

This firmware update is supposed to fix the off then on issue. It also increases the strength of AMP.

Mosh~~
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post #83 of 3905 Old 04-04-2008, 10:18 PM
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You guys that say the 650 has better PQ then the 71, Could you please post your settings?
This thread is almost usless right now unless people start using it, or maybe someone should make a thread named "Official LNxxA650 Calibration Thread". Maybe that would get more hits.
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post #84 of 3905 Old 04-05-2008, 05:56 AM
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Been asking in the owner's thread for guys to come here and post. We'll see...

C
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post #85 of 3905 Old 04-05-2008, 10:13 AM
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I have had this tv for 2 weeks now and am pretty happy with it. Have had two resets, but will try new firmware for that. Have one other problem that may require returning the set but registered here to see if anyone else has had the problem. Am getting a cracking noise through the tv speakers. Happens when one person stops talking and another starts. Also hear it if the person on screen is making a noise such as clapping. The cracking noise is at a pitch that actually hurts your ears when it happens. Any advice/comments?
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post #86 of 3905 Old 04-05-2008, 09:00 PM
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OK, this is what I'm running for regular TV. The Blacks are awesome and it doesn't burn my retinas with its brightness. The Colors look natual to my eye, but I'm fight some slight posterization in gradients. Anyone have a suggestion to fix that.

Mode: Standard
Backlight: 6
Contrast: 90
Brightness: 44
Sharpness: 16
Color: 50
Tint: G52/r48

Detailed Settings

Black adjust: off
Dynamic Contrast: low
Gamma: -1
Color Space: Native
Flesh Tone: 0
Edge enhancement: off

Picture Options

Color tone: Normal
Size: Just Scan
Digital NR: off
HDMI Black level: Normal
Film Mode: Auto
Amp 120hz: Low/Medium

Plug & Play
Energy Saving : Low
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post #87 of 3905 Old 04-05-2008, 09:26 PM
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These are the settings i have been using. All though i am constantly changing things slightly.

Standard Mode

Backlight: 5
Contrast: 90
Brightness: 45
Sharpness: 0
Color: 45
Tint: G50/R50

Detailed Settings

Black Adjust: Low
Dynamic Contrast: Low
Gamma: -1
Color Space: Native
White Balance: (untouched)
Flesh tone: 0
Edge Enhancement: off
xvYCC: (greyed out)

Picture Settings

Color Tone: Normal
Size: Just Scan
Digital NR: off
DNle: (Greyed out)
HDMI Black Level: (greyed out)
Film Mode: Auto
Blue Only Mode: off
Auto Motion Plus 120Hz: (constantly switching)

Energy Saving: off
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post #88 of 3905 Old 04-06-2008, 06:02 AM
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I received my new LN52A650 yesterday and it's a keeper. Now I have to re-program my Pronto controller.

Anyone know where to find discrete hex codes for this bad boy? (I've already checked the RemoteCentral database).
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post #89 of 3905 Old 04-06-2008, 06:15 AM
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Most people seem to watch in Standard mode. I know that takes away a few selections like Warm1 and Warm2. I think DNIe is also grayed out in Standard.

What is the overall appeal of Movie mode? More settings to adjust? Is the picture a bit darker in that mode? Is it truly better for cable and dvd movies, and would be a good setting for everyday tv watching?


C

PS: agree 1,000,000% that the quality of your feed has more to do with how good this tv looks than the limitations of the set. Sometimes my cable will look just incredible, and other times even some HD channels look more like very good PQ than HD. And non-digital standard channels? Ugh...can be brutal. There's the rub with larger sets and LCD's...the flaws are impossible to hide. Good with the bad.
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post #90 of 3905 Old 04-06-2008, 11:15 AM
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Question - if I want to use a calibration dvd like GetGray, and I am using HDMI for my cable input, as well as PS3 and XBOX360, when I use the dvd to calibrate the tv, am I only caibrating the picture on the HDMI source hooked up for the PS3 in this instance (use as dvd player)? If so, how does one calibrate the input for the cable box?

C
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