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finnpond's Avatar finnpond
08:51 PM Liked: 10
post #31 of 69
04-24-2008 | Posts: 79
Joined: Dec 2007
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheBeginning View Post

Again Toshiba has a 14bit processor, reason that tv does not benefit from the 10bit panel much.

You just can't get past this, can you, TheB?.... I keep asking if you've even seen the XF550's and you never answer.....

Please if anyone is considering purchasing an LCD, give this guy's opinion little value when he's dissing Toshibas.....

He displays severe Anti-Tosh BS that I don't think he can substantiate it in any way.....

Check out the Tosh XF550 thread for owner comments....

Dave

"The beatings will continue until morale improves..."
EscapeVelocity's Avatar EscapeVelocity
09:01 PM Liked: 126
post #32 of 69
04-24-2008 | Posts: 5,731
Joined: Nov 2006
It didnt make any sense anyway.
VarmintCong's Avatar VarmintCong
08:55 AM Liked: 11
post #33 of 69
04-25-2008 | Posts: 1,089
Joined: Mar 2008
8 bit panels can display 16.8 million distinct colors, no? I don't see how you can expect 10 bit to look any better?
8IronBob's Avatar 8IronBob
09:23 AM Liked: 10
post #34 of 69
04-25-2008 | Posts: 2,735
Joined: Nov 2005
Well, I believe that Sony's using 10-bit in their XBR line this year, and the Z line, but anything from S through W are still 8-bit, tho. However, I'm guessing that even in Sony's 8-bit line, may be more higher-end than other 8-bit panels on the market, just so long as Bravia Engine 2 does its job right for processing to back it up.

Such a big change from last year, since Sony used 10-bit almost all across the board, and the S-Series was the only one with 8-bit, now Sony wants to reserve 10-bit for the higher-end models this year. I guess that they are wanting to cut some corners this model year. Sad... Would've liked the V4100 or W4100 to have some good panels and great processing, after seeing how well they've done last year. I believe that most of the 3000 line was 10-bit, and that would've been great if Sony would've kept that going into the 4100 line.
84jeepjohn's Avatar 84jeepjohn
01:13 PM Liked: 10
post #35 of 69
04-25-2008 | Posts: 234
Joined: Dec 2003
Quote:
Originally Posted by 8IronBob View Post

Well, I believe that Sony's using 10-bit in their XBR line this year, and the Z line, but anything from S through W are still 8-bit, tho. However, I'm guessing that even in Sony's 8-bit line, may be more higher-end than other 8-bit panels on the market, just so long as Bravia Engine 2 does its job right for processing to back it up.

Such a big change from last year, since Sony used 10-bit almost all across the board, and the S-Series was the only one with 8-bit, now Sony wants to reserve 10-bit for the higher-end models this year. I guess that they are wanting to cut some corners this model year. Sad... Would've liked the V4100 or W4100 to have some good panels and great processing, after seeing how well they've done last year. I believe that most of the 3000 line was 10-bit, and that would've been great if Sony would've kept that going into the 4100 line.

well talking with a sony tech I was told that the V4100 will have a 10 bit panel... Hell who knows LOL I'll find out on the 30th when I pick up my 40V4100 (if it tells me on the box or somewhere)
TechJunky's Avatar TechJunky
01:47 PM Liked: 10
post #36 of 69
04-25-2008 | Posts: 221
Joined: Jul 2007
Quote:
Originally Posted by 8IronBob View Post

Such a big change from last year, since Sony used 10-bit almost all across the board, and the S-Series was the only one with 8-bit,

just to clarify, Sony's 40s3000 and 46s3000 both have 10bit panels. (however the 32s3000 has an 8bit)
8IronBob's Avatar 8IronBob
01:56 PM Liked: 10
post #37 of 69
04-25-2008 | Posts: 2,735
Joined: Nov 2005
Quote:
Originally Posted by 84jeepjohn View Post

well talking with a sony tech I was told that the V4100 will have a 10 bit panel... Hell who knows LOL I'll find out on the 30th when I pick up my 40V4100 (if it tells me on the box or somewhere)

?! Well, that wasn't what I saw in some reports in the 2008 Bravia thread, guess that confirms things then. Guess this may be the panel of choice, and probably might make the V4100 a bigger seller over the A550 because of it.
84jeepjohn's Avatar 84jeepjohn
02:33 PM Liked: 10
post #38 of 69
04-25-2008 | Posts: 234
Joined: Dec 2003
Quote:
Originally Posted by 8IronBob View Post

?! Well, that wasn't what I saw in some reports in the 2008 Bravia thread, guess that confirms things then. Guess this may be the panel of choice, and probably might make the V4100 a bigger seller over the A550 because of it.


true, and that's why I said "what the sony tech said" I can't confirm or deny the 8 or 10 bit panal, I'm just letting ya'll know what I was told

john
sunil6784's Avatar sunil6784
03:48 PM Liked: 10
post #39 of 69
04-25-2008 | Posts: 107
Joined: Oct 2007
Quote:
Originally Posted by 8IronBob View Post

Well, I believe that Sony's using 10-bit in their XBR line this year, and the Z line, but anything from S through W are still 8-bit, tho. However, I'm guessing that even in Sony's 8-bit line, may be more higher-end than other 8-bit panels on the market, just so long as Bravia Engine 2 does its job right for processing to back it up.

Such a big change from last year, since Sony used 10-bit almost all across the board, and the S-Series was the only one with 8-bit, now Sony wants to reserve 10-bit for the higher-end models this year. I guess that they are wanting to cut some corners this model year. Sad... Would've liked the V4100 or W4100 to have some good panels and great processing, after seeing how well they've done last year. I believe that most of the 3000 line was 10-bit, and that would've been great if Sony would've kept that going into the 4100 line.

My V3000 is a 10 bit panel
TheBeginning's Avatar TheBeginning
12:11 PM Liked: 10
post #40 of 69
05-05-2008 | Posts: 603
Joined: Mar 2008
Quote:
Originally Posted by slyguy10 View Post

The Toshiba RF350u has a 10 bit panel

http://www.productwiki.com/toshiba-regza-46rv530u/

Very doubtful since the 530U has an 8bit.
8IronBob's Avatar 8IronBob
12:13 PM Liked: 10
post #41 of 69
05-05-2008 | Posts: 2,735
Joined: Nov 2005
IIRC, didn't Samsung have 10-bit all across their ToC line this year? I could've sworn that was a 10-bit on their A650 when I saw that in the store, it just looked too good to be an 8-bit. Shame that Sony's counterpart's only using an 8-bit, but at least it'll be priced accordingly.
Ready2Mosh's Avatar Ready2Mosh
12:32 PM Liked: 10
post #42 of 69
05-05-2008 | Posts: 1,124
Joined: Aug 2007
Quote:
Originally Posted by dbyun View Post

I know for sure Samsung's 6 series are 8 bit.


WRONG!!!

I called tier 3 technical support today and the 650/750 models are 10 bit panels, no ifs, ands or buts about it.

Mosh~~
8IronBob's Avatar 8IronBob
12:36 PM Liked: 10
post #43 of 69
05-05-2008 | Posts: 2,735
Joined: Nov 2005
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ready2Mosh View Post

WRONG!!!

I called tier 3 technical support today and the 650/750 models are 10 bit panels, no ifs, ands or buts about it.

Mosh~~

Guess that answers that question... Seems like Sony has their work cut out for them if they want their W4100 to succeed. The Z4100 seems like better competition, but who would want to spend more for a 120Hz panel just to get that 10-bit technology? Just so long as the image quality difference isn't that significant between the W and Z series, I believe that the W series should suffice, imo, even tho it's only an 8-bit panel.
diabolyte's Avatar diabolyte
12:41 PM Liked: 10
post #44 of 69
05-05-2008 | Posts: 954
Joined: Mar 2008
Quote:
Originally Posted by 8IronBob View Post

IIRC, didn't Samsung have 10-bit all across their ToC line this year? I could've sworn that was a 10-bit on their A650 when I saw that in the store, it just looked too good to be an 8-bit. Shame that Sony's counterpart's only using an 8-bit, but at least it'll be priced accordingly.

there's no confirmation that the 650/750 are 10bit panels. samsung does not mention this fact anywhere in their specs sheets or marketing brochure. if they were, I would think their technical & marketing dept. would have cared to put an extra bullet point there indicating so. however some owners have reported seeing in the service manuals which has a specification that reads "display colors: 1.07 Billion" which means that it is 10bit, but then we still don't know if this refers to the panel itself or the just the processing or both.

but then again, what does it matter if its 8/10 bit if the PQ looks great or if you really can't see the difference and I bet alot of people can't or don't unless someone point it out for them and they really look hard for it.

EDIT: looks like I spoke too soon lol
TheBeginning's Avatar TheBeginning
01:01 PM Liked: 10
post #45 of 69
05-05-2008 | Posts: 603
Joined: Mar 2008
Quote:
Originally Posted by diabolyte View Post

there's no confirmation that the 650/750 are 10bit panels. samsung does not mention this fact anywhere in their specs sheets or marketing brochure. if they were, I would think their technical & marketing dept. would have cared to put an extra bullet point there indicating so. however some owners have reported seeing in the service manuals which has a specification that reads "display colors: 1.07 Billion" which means that it is 10bit, but then we still don't know if this refers to the panel itself or the just the processing or both.

but then again, what does it matter if its 8/10 bit if the PQ looks great or if you really can't see the difference and I bet alot of people can't or don't unless someone point it out for them and they really look hard for it.

EDIT: looks like I spoke too soon lol

I called them as well, and confirmed that the 650/750 was 10bit. Even most HD sites list this. Just do some research, so yes 650/750 are 10bit. I wish we knew what the 550 was.
mattldm's Avatar mattldm
07:41 AM Liked: 10
post #46 of 69
05-06-2008 | Posts: 538
Joined: Jan 2008
Quote:
Originally Posted by dbyun View Post

I know for sure Samsung's 6 series are 8 bit.

Someone on another thread called samsungs support and confirmed that the 6 series are 10bit panels
ajny's Avatar ajny
10:30 AM Liked: 10
post #47 of 69
05-06-2008 | Posts: 6
Joined: Apr 2008
Quote:
Originally Posted by TechJunky View Post

Sony S, V, W, & XBR series all have 10bit panels.

I own a sony 32S3000 inch in my bedroom. S-series is a 8 bit display BUT a 10 bit processing panel.

For 2008, for the new S-series (32S4100 etc), Sony is no longer stating what type of panel/processing it has. This leads me to believe that in order to cut costs, Sony might have made the S-series 8 bit display and 8 bit processing (but this is just a guess on my part).
Porter_'s Avatar Porter_
10:49 AM Liked: 10
post #48 of 69
05-06-2008 | Posts: 182
Joined: Feb 2008
Quote:
Originally Posted by ajny View Post

I own a sony 32S3000 inch in my bedroom. S-series is a 8 bit display BUT a 10 bit processing panel.

For 2008, for the new S-series (32S4100 etc), Sony is no longer stating what type of panel/processing it has. This leads me to believe that in order to cut costs, Sony might have made the S-series 8 bit display and 8 bit processing (but this is just a guess on my part).

there's a lot of bad info in this thread. maybe your 32" S-series is 8bit/10bit, but the 40"+ S3000 series are 10bit panels with 10bit processing. same goes for V3000 and W3000 series.
jarcher's Avatar jarcher
11:24 AM Liked: 10
post #49 of 69
05-06-2008 | Posts: 141
Joined: Nov 2004
Besides the number of colors, is there a difference between panels that stems uniquely from the number of bits? That is, is there a difference in speed and potential burn in?
beachbum1972's Avatar beachbum1972
12:52 PM Liked: 10
post #50 of 69
05-06-2008 | Posts: 8
Joined: May 2008
Quote:
Originally Posted by EscapeVelocity View Post

JVC 898 series

Yup! This has 10 bit.

I just bought this TV and LOVE it!
mattldm's Avatar mattldm
01:05 PM Liked: 10
post #51 of 69
05-06-2008 | Posts: 538
Joined: Jan 2008
Quote:
Originally Posted by jarcher View Post

Besides the number of colors, is there a difference between panels that stems uniquely from the number of bits? That is, is there a difference in speed and potential burn in?

I also wonder about the tangible benefits of the 10bit Vs. 8bit panels. I have not heard anyone say that 10 is better than 8 because of a, b, and c etc.??
Porter_'s Avatar Porter_
01:49 PM Liked: 10
post #52 of 69
05-06-2008 | Posts: 182
Joined: Feb 2008
Quote:
Originally Posted by jarcher View Post

Besides the number of colors, is there a difference between panels that stems uniquely from the number of bits? That is, is there a difference in speed and potential burn in?

Quote:
Originally Posted by mattldm View Post

I also wonder about the tangible benefits of the 10bit Vs. 8bit panels. I have not heard anyone say that 10 is better than 8 because of a, b, and c etc.??

here's a pretty long thread debating the importance of 10bit and 24p, though i'm not really sure a definitive answer is reached.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1017613
einsteinjb's Avatar einsteinjb
03:14 PM Liked: 10
post #53 of 69
05-06-2008 | Posts: 970
Joined: Aug 2005
Quote:
Originally Posted by slyguy10 View Post

The Toshiba RF350u has a 10 bit panel

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheBeginning View Post

http://www.productwiki.com/toshiba-regza-46rv530u/

Very doubtful since the 530U has an 8bit.

TheBeginning, you can doubt all you want, but the 350U absolutely has a 10-bit panel. This is a clearly established fact. You do a great job researching when you want info on a Samsung but when it comes to Toshiba, you need to look a bit harder. Look it up on Amazon or anyplace else. The RV530U is a completely different TV from the RF350U, in spite of the similar model #. In fact I believe one of our forum sponsors said the 530U (8 bit) is an '08 replacement for last year's HL series, whereas the 350U is replaced by the XV540U (10 bit) and the LX177 series is replaced by the XF550U (also 10 bit).
TreyS's Avatar TreyS
07:31 PM Liked: 10
post #54 of 69
07-18-2008 | Posts: 859
Joined: Dec 2003
Quote:
Originally Posted by TechJunky View Post

Sony S, V, W series all have 10bit panels.

....for the 3000 series, not the 4100 series.
TreyS's Avatar TreyS
07:36 PM Liked: 10
post #55 of 69
07-18-2008 | Posts: 859
Joined: Dec 2003
Quote:
Originally Posted by VarmintCong View Post

8 bit panels can display 16.8 million distinct colors, no? I don't see how you can expect 10 bit to look any better?

It has more to do with the gradient shading vs the color in my opinion.
TreyS's Avatar TreyS
07:43 PM Liked: 10
post #56 of 69
07-18-2008 | Posts: 859
Joined: Dec 2003
Quote:
Originally Posted by einsteinjb View Post

TheBeginning, you can doubt all you want, but the 350U absolutely has a 10-bit panel. This is a clearly established fact. You do a great job researching when you want info on a Samsung but when it comes to Toshiba, you need to look a bit harder. Look it up on Amazon or anyplace else. The RV530U is a completely different TV from the RF350U, in spite of the similar model #. In fact I believe one of our forum sponsors said the 530U (8 bit) is an '08 replacement for last year's HL series, whereas the 350U is replaced by the XV540U (10 bit) and the LX177 series is replaced by the XF550U (also 10 bit).

...from Amazon:

introducing the beautifully-designed Toshiba REGZA 46RF350U 46" (measured diagonally) Super Narrow Bezel Design (under 1 wide) LCD HDTV. Featuring Toshiba's new 10-bit panel which provides 64 times more colors than a standard 8-bit panel, offering smoother transitions between color changes and during subtle shade transitions. 3 HDMI connections, a 1080p full HD picture and PixelPure 3G 14-bit internal digital video processing creates a superior picture
KakimotoRift's Avatar KakimotoRift
07:47 PM Liked: 11
post #57 of 69
07-18-2008 | Posts: 663
Joined: Dec 2007
Seires 5 8bit/??bit Color processing From 32" Up
Series 6 10bit/12bit Color processing From 32" Up
Series 7 10bit/16bit Color processing From 32" Up (Actually A750 don't have a 32" but you get the idea)

Difference for 32" vs Higher is the DCR numbers and without AMP 120Hz

I have both A550 and A650, and hell who ever said you can't tell between 10bit and 8bit is a lie.

You can test it with places which has many color layers and also test it with low resolution with lower bitrates videos with both monitors and you will see that 10bit has better image over 8bit. 10bit has smoother image and better color spreading. You can also test it with the GT5P and DMC4.

There is one way u can't tell the difference is to step far far far away.
creemail's Avatar creemail
08:08 PM Liked: 11
post #58 of 69
07-18-2008 | Posts: 5,087
Joined: Sep 2006
A higher bit rate usually helps with eliminating banding. Smooths the colors on screen...

Chris
EscapeVelocity's Avatar EscapeVelocity
08:10 PM Liked: 126
post #59 of 69
07-18-2008 | Posts: 5,731
Joined: Nov 2006
Test it with low resolution and lower bitrates.

LOL!

So in other words, you mean CBS Sunday Golf in 1080i wont show a damn bit o difference.
KakimotoRift's Avatar KakimotoRift
08:17 PM Liked: 11
post #60 of 69
07-18-2008 | Posts: 663
Joined: Dec 2007
Quote:
Originally Posted by EscapeVelocity View Post

Test it with low resolution and lower bitrates.

LOL!

So in other words, you mean CBS Sunday Golf in 1080i wont show a damn bit o difference.

You might as well read my words more clearly and fully before making such a statement.
It is to test, and you can try HD videos and look at the places which will produce many color layers. LOL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Running same source with two different LCD TVs, get it/? no?

Oh and, I don't watch golf, I watch baseball. LOL!

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