Poll: Touch of Color Red, LNA650 - Page 3 - AVS Forum
View Poll Results: What do you think of the Touch of Color Red?
I like it or am fine with it, or don't even notice it's red. 0 0%
I dislike and will not purchase because of it. 0 0%
It bothers me but it's the inside that counts. 0 0%
Voters: 0. You may not vote on this poll

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post #61 of 170 Old 04-19-2008, 08:31 AM
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chanting......
Touch of Black, Touch of Black, Touch of Black..........
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post #62 of 170 Old 04-21-2008, 12:17 PM
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I will wait to see what they do with the 9 series, before buying something else.
The TOC should have been an option, not the only choice.

My wife said NO, even though we have been waiting for the improved tech, over the 71.
She hates the TOC with a passion usually reserved for football. lol
According to her sensibilities, red doesn't fit with our decorating palette
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post #63 of 170 Old 04-23-2008, 09:06 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by geister View Post

They claim it resulted from research in the automotive industry and fashion industry in the press release.
http://www.samsung.com/us/news/newsR...earch_keyword=
Here's a crazy idea: When designing a product destined to be the centerpiece inside millions of homes, focus on the INTERIOR DESIGN INDUSTRY.



+1...even worse than the gaudy xbr glass.
Piano or flat black are the only option for displays, since a wood grain trim just wouldn't work.
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post #64 of 170 Old 04-24-2008, 12:42 PM - Thread Starter
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wow 25% in sales loss because of the TOC from this poll alone, i wonder how much sales they are losing for people seeing it in the store for the first time that have no idea what 120hz is.
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post #65 of 170 Old 04-24-2008, 01:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tayja View Post

chanting......
Touch of Black, Touch of Black, Touch of Black..........

Touch of death, touch of death.


Bart, don't use the touch of death on your sister!
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post #66 of 170 Old 04-24-2008, 01:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chronoxg3 View Post


Obviously Samsung took a risk, as someone earlier pointed out - alienate some vs alienate nobody. They chose to alienate some...was it a smart decision? Only they know, I guess. I'm going to guess that next year's line will be back to black only with TOC as an optional sku.

Wasn't Sony's approach of add-on color bezels a vastly superior one?
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post #67 of 170 Old 04-24-2008, 10:56 PM
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I completely agree that anything with color on a $2k+ piece of electronics should be interchangeable. I have a 5271f being delivered tomorrow. I was waiting for the new models to come out and did not like the new TOC red at all. I agree that it is barely noticeable... I knew exactly what the TV looked like and what I was looking for at BestBuy and looked over it 4-5 times on their dark lit wall.

My greatest concern was the reflectiveness of the bezel on the X650. Can anyone that owns one of TOC models comment on this? When I looked at it the bezel even in the dark corner of Best Buy it seemed to have reflections all over it like it was a mirror finish. It was very distracting to the point in was hard to focus on the actual picture. Any different results in a normal to bright home setup?

I am considering selling the 5271 and getting the 650 at amazon's dropped price.
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post #68 of 170 Old 04-25-2008, 12:51 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by davez82 View Post

wow 25% in sales loss because of the TOC from this poll alone, i wonder how much sales they are losing for people seeing it in the store for the first time that have no idea what 120hz is.

Wow, who cares.

Why dont you people just get over it already and go buy other tv's. If you dont like the red, dont buy it. What's coming in here and complaining about this to no end gonna do, nothing. At least they had the balls to try something new, doesnt mean any of you have to buy it. It's just a tv for christ sake lol.

Oh and hey no offense by the way. I just dont understand how this can bother people so much when they dont even own the tv. You do have choices, and apparently this set isnt one of them. Move on!
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post #69 of 170 Old 04-25-2008, 01:01 AM
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An interesting poll. I thought most people would not like muti-coloured sets. It looks like that is not the case. I would go for a darker exterior (close to black) since other brighter colours could distract me.
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post #70 of 170 Old 04-25-2008, 08:03 AM
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As a painter, I can see some colored walls will look awful with a red bezel hanging on it. As for me, it does not look too bad. (but I would not buy it)

Visit my home page for ideas on your HT project.
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post #71 of 170 Old 04-26-2008, 12:23 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by metal83 View Post

Wow, who cares.

Why dont you people just get over it already and go buy other tv's. If you dont like the red, dont buy it. What's coming in here and complaining about this to no end gonna do, nothing. At least they had the balls to try something new, doesnt mean any of you have to buy it. It's just a tv for christ sake lol.

Oh and hey no offense by the way. I just dont understand how this can bother people so much when they dont even own the tv. You do have choices, and apparently this set isnt one of them. Move on!


cuz i want this tv....just with a touch o' black
you'll be jealous when i get it....... just kidding..
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post #72 of 170 Old 04-26-2008, 12:27 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tayja View Post

cuz i want this tv....just with a touch o' black
you'll be jealous when i get it....... just kidding..

LOL

I would of chose this tv even if they released black along with it, i'm so sick of the same old thing over and over. Me and my GF love this tv so much, it looks very classy and fits well in our home.

But hey if black comes out and i actually do like it better, then i'll buy it and put this one in my bedroom lol.
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post #73 of 170 Old 04-26-2008, 01:09 AM
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I have had this tv for a almost 2 months now and one of my friends proclaimed today:

" Wait a second, your TV is red!"

She has been playing xbox on it as well as movies quite a few times. She is an artist and is obsessed with color.

I love it. Red is the new black. Word.
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post #74 of 170 Old 04-27-2008, 08:33 PM
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i hate red...
yet i love the tv....
any word, rumor, of when black may be coming....
anyone, anyone......bueller........bueller......
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post #75 of 170 Old 04-27-2008, 08:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tayja View Post

i hate red...
yet i love the tv....
any word, rumor, of when black may be coming....
anyone, anyone......bueller........bueller......

Never, all future tvs will be red. Might as well just suck it up and get the 650 lol.
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post #76 of 170 Old 04-27-2008, 11:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by metal83 View Post

Never, all future tvs will be red. Might as well just suck it up and get the 650 lol.

r u serious or just speculating?
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post #77 of 170 Old 04-28-2008, 03:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by geister View Post

They claim it resulted from research in the automotive industry and fashion industry in the press release.
http://www.samsung.com/us/news/newsR...earch_keyword=
Here's a crazy idea: When designing a product destined to be the centerpiece inside millions of homes, focus on the INTERIOR DESIGN INDUSTRY.

Even better plan: Focus on the science of visual perception.

The best thing they could do is place matte black border around the set's screen, and do away with any color at all. Humans like base black as a natural contrast enhancer, not a color that ALSO happens to be a primary color, thus potentially skewing our perception of the image.

The First Clarke Law states, 'If an elderly but distinguished scientist says that something is possible he is almost certainly right, but if he says that it is impossible he is very probably wrong.'
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post #78 of 170 Old 04-30-2008, 04:44 AM
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Hi everybody! Short time lurker and brand-new member here.

I've spent the past couple of months researching LCD TVs and because of the enormous wealth of in-depth discussion here, I finally decided to order a 40" 650 from Amazon.com

With that out of the way - Samsung wins with TOC, and the three pages of discussion here prove it.

For several years Samsung has been working aggressively to shed its image as a B-tier Korean value brand. While wave after wave of quality product have done plenty to shape our perceptions, the general feeling amongst consumers and prosumers is that Samsung is "high quality, but affordable."

To gain a competitive advantage over the long term, Samsung wants to move out of the commodification box and into the lucrative arena of "lifestyle brands." This is the sweet spot where comsumers apply emotion and fashion value to your products, and in turn are willing to loosen-up their wallets beyond where they would for just an ordinary widget. Easy examples of lifestyle brands are BMW, Bang & Olufsen and Prada. This isn't to say that Samsung wants to become a luxury brand - no, they just want enough percieved value and cache that we can appreciate their products for more than the quantitative performance of their products.

Right now, we perceive and appreciate Samsung for rational reasons - they're stuffing guts into a black square. If folks like us are able to rationalize and distill the merits of products based on "the guts" and nothing else, said products become commidified and competitve pressures drive prices to the ground. Right now the LCD market is so heated that Samsung risks becoming a Nokia-like casualty of competitive pressures if they don't reinvent their image and create a higher percieved value of the brand as more than just a widget maker. The market for flat-panel TVs is practically eating itself alive, just like cel phones were 5 years ago - the only way they could save themselves was to bloat their product with features to keep prices up, or create must have "it" products, like Motorla did with the RAZR.

Anyways, Touch of Red, isn't designed to please everybody - If it did, it wouldn't be getting its job done. The decision to start with red and red alone is important - because it's uncompromising. They're declaring their TV as chic design and aren't afraid to suffer the consequences. If they wanted to offer choice of color from the get-go there would be no bold statement being made, and this thread probably wouldn't be here - or it just wouldn't be very long. That Samsung went out on a limb like this, to think that somebody at the top was willing to green-light this idea, makes me view the brand as more informed and "with it" than I thought previously. (Sidebar - Very similar developments are also happening within Hyundai. Keep an eye on the upcoming RWD Genesis sedan and coupe.)

Personally, I don't care either way. I only bought the A650 for rational reasons. But for the long-term viability of Samsung, I think TOR is a step in the right direction. I remember just 4 years ago thinking "Samsung, a 'Lifestyle Brand?' What a joke!" But now, I can easily see how Samsung could eventually mold themselves into a brand with emotional positives exceeding that of Sony.

I don't have a dog in this fight. I'm not a Samsung fan by any means. I'm just something of a marketing wonk and am pretty impressed that Samsung would have the testicular fortitude to do more than "just another black square."
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post #79 of 170 Old 04-30-2008, 10:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Grondie View Post

Hi everybody! Short time lurker and brand-new member here.

I've spent the past couple of months researching LCD TVs and because of the enormous wealth of in-depth discussion here, I finally decided to order a 40" 650 from Amazon.com

With that out of the way - Samsung wins with TOC, and the three pages of discussion here prove it.

For several years Samsung has been working aggressively to shed its image as a B-tier Korean value brand. While wave after wave of quality product have done plenty to shape our perceptions, the general feeling amongst consumers and prosumers is that Samsung is "high quality, but affordable."

To gain a competitive advantage over the long term, Samsung wants to move out of the commodification box and into the lucrative arena of "lifestyle brands." This is the sweet spot where comsumers apply emotion and fashion value to your products, and in turn are willing to loosen-up their wallets beyond where they would for just an ordinary widget. Easy examples of lifestyle brands are BMW, Bang & Olufsen and Prada. This isn't to say that Samsung wants to become a luxury brand - no, they just want enough percieved value and cache that we can appreciate their products for more than the quantitative performance of their products.

Right now, we perceive and appreciate Samsung for rational reasons - they're stuffing guts into a black square. If folks like us are able to rationalize and distill the merits of products based on "the guts" and nothing else, said products become commidified and competitve pressures drive prices to the ground. Right now the LCD market is so heated that Samsung risks becoming a Nokia-like casualty of competitive pressures if they don't reinvent their image and create a higher percieved value of the brand as more than just a widget maker. The market for flat-panel TVs is practically eating itself alive, just like cel phones were 5 years ago - the only way they could save themselves was to bloat their product with features to keep prices up, or create must have "it" products, like Motorla did with the RAZR.

Anyways, Touch of Red, isn't designed to please everybody - If it did, it wouldn't be getting its job done. The decision to start with red and red alone is important - because it's uncompromising. They're declaring their TV as chic design and aren't afraid to suffer the consequences. If they wanted to offer choice of color from the get-go there would be no bold statement being made, and this thread probably wouldn't be here - or it just wouldn't be very long. That Samsung went out on a limb like this, to think that somebody at the top was willing to green-light this idea, makes me view the brand as more informed and "with it" than I thought previously. (Sidebar - Very similar developments are also happening within Hyundai. Keep an eye on the upcoming RWD Genesis sedan and coupe.)

Personally, I don't care either way. I only bought the A650 for rational reasons. But for the long-term viability of Samsung, I think TOR is a step in the right direction. I remember just 4 years ago thinking "Samsung, a 'Lifestyle Brand?' What a joke!" But now, I can easily see how Samsung could eventually mold themselves into a brand with emotional positives exceeding that of Sony.

I don't have a dog in this fight. I'm not a Samsung fan by any means. I'm just something of a marketing wonk and am pretty impressed that Samsung would have the testicular fortitude to do more than "just another black square."


How can you say TOC IS A WIN and these 3 pages prove it?
I think it proves otherwise. Nearly a third of consumers (that took this poll me included) will not buy this product. Those numbers don't lie.
Nearly 48% of those that have taken the poll do not like it. Are you and I reading the same numbers?
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post #80 of 170 Old 05-01-2008, 12:24 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tayja View Post

How can you say TOC IS A WIN and these 3 pages prove it?

These pages are proof because:
- We're talking about the product instead of not talking about it.
- Opinion is divided. "Love/Hate" is often an intended goal of some product launches (Ok, I'll admit - the discussion here is more along the lines of "Like/Agitated" not "Love/Hate")

Were this a mockery thread - yeah, that would be bad press, but a product that draws division and discussion amontgst "opinion leaders" is always a good result.

A similar thing happened back in 2002 when BMW started rolling out a new generation of vehicles featuring extroverted, "forward" styling that polarized opinion. Enthusiasts were enraged, and BMW lost some short-term sales, but in the process they captured the attention of the press, stimulated debate and kept the brand on everybody's lips. In the end, the tatic paid off, and BMW was able to change perceptions about its old image as a staid, conservative yuppie brand.

I'm not saying that Samsung is doing anything nearly as ambitious as what BMW and other automotive brands started some years ago - but their aim is the same: To gain industrial design credibility and cache so that they can avoid exposure to commodification of their products.

I'm somewhat indifferent to the Samsung brand and could have just have easily bought a Sharp, Sony or Toshiba if the hardware and price was right. I'm just commenting from a marketing and product development point-of-view, and I'm midly impressed that Samsung has stuck their foot in this direction.
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post #81 of 170 Old 05-01-2008, 06:33 AM
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1st time poster here. I saw it at my local BB and I was all set to buy the 7 Series/52" until I saw the Red Bezel. WTF is Samsung thinking? U-G-L-Y. I will not be dropping ~ 43K on a Red Bezeled TV. What a joke. Very disappointing.
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post #82 of 170 Old 05-01-2008, 10:53 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Grondie View Post

These pages are proof because:
- We're talking about the product instead of not talking about it.
- Opinion is divided. "Love/Hate" is often an intended goal of some product launches (Ok, I'll admit - the discussion here is more along the lines of "Like/Agitated" not "Love/Hate")

Were this a mockery thread - yeah, that would be bad press, but a product that draws division and discussion amontgst "opinion leaders" is always a good result.

A similar thing happened back in 2002 when BMW started rolling out a new generation of vehicles featuring extroverted, "forward" styling that polarized opinion. Enthusiasts were enraged, and BMW lost some short-term sales, but in the process they captured the attention of the press, stimulated debate and kept the brand on everybody's lips. In the end, the tatic paid off, and BMW was able to change perceptions about its old image as a staid, conservative yuppie brand.

I'm not saying that Samsung is doing anything nearly as ambitious as what BMW and other automotive brands started some years ago - but their aim is the same: To gain industrial design credibility and cache so that they can avoid exposure to commodification of their products.

I'm somewhat indifferent to the Samsung brand and could have just have easily bought a Sharp, Sony or Toshiba if the hardware and price was right. I'm just commenting from a marketing and product development point-of-view, and I'm midly impressed that Samsung has stuck their foot in this direction.


I understand and respect your point of view, I do however still feel that it is a bad decision by Samsung. My feeling is that they should have offered it as an option. By "forcing" me to buy the red (mind you I hate red, not just dislike, I hate red) they have lost me as a customer. Some will ask, why do I stay around and complain (Metal for instance ) I will tell you why, because I want THIS tv and do not want to "settle" knowing that I have compromised and spent a lot of money on something that for me is not "perfect". I want this TV with a black bezel.
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post #83 of 170 Old 05-01-2008, 04:47 PM
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Who knows, maybe I'll hate the Bezel when my set finally arrives. In any case, I presume the Series 6 and 7 TVs will manifest themselves in non-red form once this first wave of sets sells-through - and by then, maybe the "purple egg" issue will be completely resolved.

In any case, the price I offered by Amazon is phenomenal. I even took advantage of their 30-day price match and they were extremely cooperative.
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post #84 of 170 Old 05-02-2008, 11:37 AM
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I have a 52" 750, I agree with a few other posts listed here. The red bezel is so subtle that I actually thought mine was defective, I was trying to figure out how to turn it on, surely there must be a light to activate this. Nope, just my ignorance. In reality, it looks nothing like the pictures on the Samsung site. I have dark colored walls (Texas leather color) and honestly, I had to shine a flash light from the back in order to see any red.

This unit is gorgeous, fantastic picture, and not many talk about the InfoLink or WiseLink features which are effective tools. Don't let this talk of red scare you away from enjoying a great unit.
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post #85 of 170 Old 05-02-2008, 11:51 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dfp View Post

I didn't buy the 96, the 65, or the 71 because of technical difficulties. So now the 650 seems to be the one, and the TOC is stopping me. The lighting in BB emphasized the red, and everyone just walked by it on a busy Sunday. The placement in Sears minimized the red, and it looked fairly good... my wife didn't even notice it until I mentioned it. But it's given us pause. And, since we have two red cars, it's not the color red itself.

I used the "contact us" link on the Sammy website and requested return of the beautiful 71 black bezel. Just fill in the text box, select the 650, select "complaint" put in your name and email address... the other fields are optional. Here's the link:

http://www.samsung.com/us/info/contactus.html#

You're kidding, right? While I can understand the bezel-color complaints, the bezel on the 71-series is HORRIBLE. It's massive, and detracts from the picture because you're always aware of the overly-large bezel. It reminds me of first-gen LCDs that had huge bezels... yuck!

The 4661 has a lovely bezel if you ask me. Very sleek and thin...
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post #86 of 170 Old 05-02-2008, 12:16 PM
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This bezel has some strange characteristics in my opinion. First off, I love the design. I think it looks classy and sleek without being over-the-top in-your-face. But there is something very very strange about it and maybe it's just my set but it's very peculiar. I have a huge window BEHIND my tv so I thought, "this thing is going to shine bright red when I set it up." The exact opposite happened. The red seems somewhat dark when I have the curtains open letting sunlight in but when I have them closed and have my indoor lights on facing the tv the red shines very bright (which I actually prefer now). I guess the reflective plastic is directed more towards the front of the tv than it is transparent from the back. I just thought this was strange and to tell you the truth I'm kind of disappointed because I have come to love the red and now actually wished that it was brighter from the sunlight . To any of you that do not like it, if you keep regular lights on without directing them at the tv the red bezel is very dark.
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post #87 of 170 Old 05-02-2008, 12:28 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Grondie View Post

These pages are proof because:
- We're talking about the product instead of not talking about it.
- Opinion is divided. "Love/Hate" is often an intended goal of some product launches (Ok, I'll admit - the discussion here is more along the lines of "Like/Agitated" not "Love/Hate")tion of the press, stimulated debate and kept the brand on everybody's lips.

Everyone i've asked would rather have a black version i dont see how that is a success. Don't get me wrong, i was first in line to buy this tv even though I knew it was going to be red, so why didn't i end up buying it? Because samsung just flat out did it wrong, the tv just isnt black enough to say its a "touch" of red, it was just bad execution, its a "red" tv plain and simple.

now if samsung releases a black version and gets the 40% some odd people who didnt like the red then that is a fine strategy, but no word on a black version, so time to look at another model. Having red "ONLY" was a bad idea, and having a red "see" through bezel was an even worst idea.
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post #88 of 170 Old 05-02-2008, 01:22 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Grondie View Post

For several years Samsung has been working aggressively to shed its image as a B-tier Korean value brand. While wave after wave of quality product have done plenty to shape our perceptions, the general feeling amongst consumers and prosumers is that Samsung is "high quality, but affordable."

To gain a competitive advantage over the long term, Samsung wants to move out of the commodification box and into the lucrative arena of "lifestyle brands." This is the sweet spot where comsumers apply emotion and fashion value to your products, and in turn are willing to loosen-up their wallets beyond where they would for just an ordinary widget. Easy examples of lifestyle brands are BMW, Bang & Olufsen and Prada. This isn't to say that Samsung wants to become a luxury brand - no, they just want enough percieved value and cache that we can appreciate their products for more than the quantitative performance of their products.

wow you sound just like a samsung marketing exec.

The point it comes down to is if the company has to argue with what the consumer wants, then the product failed to achieve mass market. Take the ps3 for instance, what if sony just said screw you we dont want to give you a dual shock 3, well i woulda sold my ps3 by now and im sure mgs4 woulda been multiplatform. As the consumer I know what I want i dont give a hoot what samsung wants or what they think I want, as far as i know they want my money, and the TOC isn't getting it. Sony dropped their multicolor line of tv's and they were smart they tested it on a lower end model and it proved unsuccessful so guess what , no more multicolor line tv's, and yes there was a red one.

even cnet reccomends anyone who doesn't like red to not buy the tv, they even tried to up play the red because the pictures downplayed it a little on their website.

Oh yah and I'm almost positive BMW, Bang & Olufsen and Prada dont make red only variations on their products. People like customization thats what sells.
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post #89 of 170 Old 05-02-2008, 01:28 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Grondie View Post

I'm somewhat indifferent to the Samsung brand and could have just have easily bought a Sharp, Sony or Toshiba if the hardware and price was right

Yes you keep mentioning your not working for Samsung, no one is accusing you, but since you seem so determined to prove it, well here I am to accuse you.
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post #90 of 170 Old 05-03-2008, 01:23 AM
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Originally Posted by davez82 View Post

wow you sound just like a samsung marketing exec.

Ha! Well, I work in marketing - not electronics, but not far from it either.

It seems counterintuitive, but creating products that go against consumer tates can net positive results over the long haul - provided the developers did their homework. A classic case study is the 2002 BMW 7-Series which was universally lambasted upon arrival, but was vindicated with time, both commercially and strategically.

I had a talk with one of my coworkers recently about about flat-panels, and how consumers are soon going to get over the "oooh and ahhh" and start demanding sets that are domesticated - not just squares with an impressive spec sheet and a logo, but something that blends in with your interior and becomes an aesthetic plus, regardless of picture quality.

I think right now most of us are blinded by the sheer awesomeness of flat-panels, as their capabilities jump by leaps and bounds month after month. Eventually picture quality will plateau to the point where specs will only be relevant to prosumers and sets will be valued for their wall appeal.

I don't know where I'm going with this now... whatever. It's just a bezel for crying out loud.
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