Official LNXXA550 Calibration/Settings Thread - Page 104 - AVS Forum
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post #3091 of 3237 Old 12-19-2009, 07:33 AM
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Originally Posted by kleptodathief View Post

^ not sure, how do i check or reverse that setup stage? its been a while since i've had this tv( over a year now)

so if pick MOVIE mode it shoud ALWAYS stay in movie mode even if i change my source inputs? i sometimes switch over to pc/hdmi1 / hdm2 ,etc, can it keeps going to dynamic or sports, it dusn' stay on movie mode

Each input has its own settings. That's actually really cool. If you put hdmi1 in movie mode, hdmi2 in sports etc then later hdmi will still be in movie mode, hdmi2 in sports etc
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post #3092 of 3237 Old 12-20-2009, 05:26 AM
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^ i personally don't like each hdmi to have its own settings , id rather have one universal or main settings for ALL ports, and be able to just switch to each mode with its own settings using 'tool' button on the remote
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post #3093 of 3237 Old 12-20-2009, 07:33 AM
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Originally Posted by kleptodathief View Post

^ i personally don't like each hdmi to have its own settings , id rather have one universal or main settings for ALL ports, and be able to just switch to each mode with its own settings using 'tool' button on the remote

That's what the entertainment modes are for. Just hit the e. mode button on the remote to cycle through different presets.
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post #3094 of 3237 Old 12-20-2009, 05:06 PM
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my tv is the 40inch 530 series, im in the wrong thread? lol or can use the same settings from the 550s? i have the crappy C panel
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post #3095 of 3237 Old 12-20-2009, 05:11 PM
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Originally Posted by kleptodathief View Post

my tv is the 40inch 530 series, im in the wrong thread? lol or can use the same settings from the 550s? i have the crappy C panel

Even if you had the 550, you can't expect the settings to work for you. Each tv is different.
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post #3096 of 3237 Old 12-27-2009, 11:36 AM
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Originally Posted by mahlerfan999 View Post
Even if you had the 550, you can't expect the settings to work for you. Each tv is different.
I have a LN46A530 that I just calibrated and was wondering if you know of anyway to get the RGB levels better? I have 80 and 30 near spot on, but 40-70 have too much blue and not enough red. I have tried many things, but I cannot seem to get blue to track correctly.

FWIW, I did the calibration under Expert in the SM. Results were the same as Movie in the UM. I was hoping that Expert would yeild better results, but all I did was prove there is no need to go into the SM to calibrate this TV.

Attached are my graphs and HCFR file... Calibration was done with HCFR software, i1 Pro meter, Movie mode in UM

 

After_Expert_12-27-09.zip 72.1474609375k . file
LL
LL
LL
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post #3097 of 3237 Old 12-27-2009, 03:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by slosvt View Post

I have a LN46A530 that I just calibrated and was wondering if you know of anyway to get the RGB levels better? I have 80 and 30 near spot on, but 40-70 have too much blue and not enough red. I have tried many things, but I cannot seem to get blue to track correctly.

FWIW, I did the calibration under Expert in the SM. Results were the same as Movie in the UM. I was hoping that Expert would yeild better results, but all I did was prove there is no need to go into the SM to calibrate this TV.

Attached are my graphs and HCFR file... Calibration was done with HCFR software, i1 Pro meter, Movie mode in UM

What I noticed right away looking at the HCFR file was the low contrast ratio. Typically, one sees contrast ratios of 1000:1 to 1500:1 or more. 800:1 would seem low, yet yours is only 217:1. This suggests that your set is too dark at 100% white, too bright at 0%, or both. If you increase the Contrast setting, you should see a more typical contrast ratio, and that will probably have a significant effect on your RGB and gamma graphs. If your set ends up too bright afterwards, you could reduce the Backlight. And, of course, verify the Brightness control for your black level after you adjust the others.

Good luck,
Bill
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post #3098 of 3237 Old 12-27-2009, 11:18 PM
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so im trying to tinker with the SHARPNESS setting, i find that if its ZERO its kinda blurry to me, i dont have 20 20 vision tho, the more i pump it up the sharper it gets but if u use too much u get white artifacts on video games?

right not i think 20 seems the best for sharpness
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post #3099 of 3237 Old 12-28-2009, 01:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kleptodathief View Post

so im trying to tinker with the SHARPNESS setting, i find that if its ZERO its kinda blurry to me, i dont have 20 20 vision tho, the more i pump it up the sharper it gets but if u use too much u get white artifacts on video games?

right not i think 20 seems the best for sharpness

dve has a test pattern for this, and using it I find that I can turn sharpness up to around 5-10 if I sit 8-10 feet back before I see distracting halos. That setting seems terribly low but it's still significantly sharper than the setting of 0.
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post #3100 of 3237 Old 12-28-2009, 09:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill Mitchell View Post
What I noticed right away looking at the HCFR file was the low contrast ratio. Typically, one sees contrast ratios of 1000:1 to 1500:1 or more. 800:1 would seem low, yet yours is only 217:1. This suggests that your set is too dark at 100% white, too bright at 0%, or both. If you increase the Contrast setting, you should see a more typical contrast ratio, and that will probably have a significant effect on your RGB and gamma graphs. If your set ends up too bright afterwards, you could reduce the Backlight. And, of course, verify the Brightness control for your black level after you adjust the others.

Good luck,
Bill
Here is my second try. Still too much blue and not enough red. I am not sure what I can do at this point... sigh...

 

Movie_After.zip 69.71484375k . file
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post #3101 of 3237 Old 12-29-2009, 12:10 PM
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Most of the fault in your calibration is in your gamma, which contributes to large errors in Y.

Here is the problem: your brightness is way too low. That allows you to lower your 0% and thus increase your contrast, BUT at the price of crushing shadow detail. You need to use a test pattern to set brightness so that you're not clipping 2% above black. Typical settings will be 48-52. That incorrect brightness is what is wrecking your gamma curve and that's the reason that your dE's are so high, your dxy's are not bad, it's the error in Y that's terrible.
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post #3102 of 3237 Old 12-29-2009, 04:55 PM
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Thank you for the tip. I will look into it. My question is, where can I find what the Y value should be as a percentage to 100% IRE?

I setup the brightness using the AVS pattern, but I was at the TV. I will do it again, but step back to viewing distance. I set Contrast to give me 35 ftL output. I will back this down to 30, as the TV is mainly viewed at night in a dark bedroom. Any other tips? I have followed the curtpalme instructions for my feeble attempts.

Edit...I found the target increase and here is what I am at, but I am not sure how to correct it. Ill increase the brightness a few notches and see where that puts me, but I really think the set is not going to get much better.

0 10 20 30 40 50 60 70 80 90 100
x 0.1182 0.2777 0.3093 0.3105 0.3028 0.3029 0.3042 0.3082 0.3149 0.3209 0.3260
y 0.1583 0.2799 0.3180 0.3297 0.3207 0.3202 0.3197 0.3240 0.3304 0.3349 0.3353
Y 0.0482 0.7543 3.8865 10.3266 18.3096 27.5823 38.2489 52.2086 71.5255 93.2549 118.3306

Actual Y variance 0.64% 3.28% 8.73% 15.47% 23.31% 32.32% 44.12 % 60.45% 78.81%

Target Y variance 0.63% 2.90% 7.07% 13.32% 21.76% 32.50% 45.63 % 61.21% 79.31%

Difference 0.01% 0.38% 1.66% 2.15% 1.55% -0.18% -1.51% -0.76% -0.50%
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post #3103 of 3237 Old 12-30-2009, 11:19 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by slosvt View Post

Thank you for the tip. I will look into it. My question is, where can I find what the Y value should be as a percentage to 100% IRE?

That's represented by the gamma curve, just make sure it's flat and lies between 2.2-2.4. There are four controls that will help you with this: brightness, contrast, gamma and black adjust.

Quote:


I setup the brightness using the AVS pattern, but I was at the TV. I will do it again, but step back to viewing distance. I set Contrast to give me 35 ftL output. I will back this down to 30, as the TV is mainly viewed at night in a dark bedroom. Any other tips? I have followed the curtpalme instructions for my feeble attempts.

The least important part of setting contrast is the peak white, I made the same mistake too. It's more important to make sure that you don't have the contrast up so high that you're running out of blue and green too soon. I would turn down the contrast, you want to be in the range of 85-92 to assure proper grayscale tracking without unnecessarily reducing overall contrast too much.

Quote:


Edit...I found the target increase and here is what I am at, but I am not sure how to correct it. Ill increase the brightness a few notches and see where that puts me, but I really think the set is not going to get much better.

Just make sure to set brightness based on a pluge pattern. Don't use the numbers to set brightness. If it's set to just blend below black with black, and doesn't clip 2% above black, that will automatically force your near dark part of the gamma curve to 2.2. This should be done by eye in a dark room btw. If you can't make the low end of the gamma curve to be flat 2.2, that's when you use the black adjust control, but then when you use it, you have to reset brightness using the pluge pattern. The gamma control adjusts the mid-brightness Y's, so if you find the setting that will force the mid part of the gamma curve to be 2.2 your overall curve should be flat.

I think you can do better, keep trying, I don't think that you're there yet. Gamma is just as important as tracking D65, it's like half of the picture.
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post #3104 of 3237 Old 01-02-2010, 10:50 AM
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what are the best settings for call of duty modern warfare 2 for the xbox 360.. i have the a550 46 inch.. and sometimes its hard for me to see the bad guys far away thanks
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post #3105 of 3237 Old 01-03-2010, 03:55 PM
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Originally Posted by slosvt View Post

Here is my second try. Still too much blue and not enough red. I am not sure what I can do at this point... sigh...

In addition to mahlerfan999's comments, you might look again at your primary/secondary colors. It looks to me as if your red Y is too low, your blue Y is significantly high. Perhaps it a coincidence, but these errors parallel the difficulty you are having with the middle of your RGB curve. I've always found this to be an iterative process, where I work on the grayscale, move on to work on the colors, come back and work on the grayscale again, etc.

While you are working on colors, you can also correct the Y level of your secondaries, where yellow is high and cyan and magenta are low. It is a common mistake while learning the process to overlook the importance of the Y values on the colors, since the CIE chart shows only two of the three dimensions.

Good luck,
Bill
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post #3106 of 3237 Old 01-03-2010, 06:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill Mitchell View Post

In addition to mahlerfan999's comments, you might look again at your primary/secondary colors. It looks to me as if your red Y is too low, your blue Y is significantly high. Perhaps it a coincidence, but these errors parallel the difficulty you are having with the middle of your RGB curve. I've always found this to be an iterative process, where I work on the grayscale, move on to work on the colors, come back and work on the grayscale again, etc.

While you are working on colors, you can also correct the Y level of your secondaries, where yellow is high and cyan and magenta are low. It is a common mistake while learning the process to overlook the importance of the Y values on the colors, since the CIE chart shows only two of the three dimensions.

Good luck,
Bill

Thank you for suggesting this. Here is a graph from Chromapure that shows exactly what you stated.



I should be able to correct the red by increasing its Luminance (red) and blue by decreasing it Luminance (blue), correct?
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post #3107 of 3237 Old 01-03-2010, 07:03 PM
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Originally Posted by slosvt View Post

Thank you for suggesting this. ...

I should be able to correct the red by increasing its Luminance (red) and blue by decreasing it Luminance (blue), correct?

Yes. For the secondaries, it is just slightly trickier, as you decrease yellow Y by dropping yellow's red/green together, you increase cyan by raising its green/blue together, etc.
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post #3108 of 3237 Old 01-04-2010, 10:00 AM
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what are the best settings for call of duty modern warfare 2 for the xbox 360.. i have the a550 46 inch.. and sometimes its hard for me to see the bad guys far away thanks

???????????
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post #3109 of 3237 Old 01-04-2010, 10:14 AM
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???????????

Oh sorry there is something really wrong about the huge black crush the 360 has, I measured it once and the gamma was 2.5 at default, when everything else has a default gamma of 2.1. Also the default brightness is all wrong.

Easy setup: brightness: 55, gamma: +3, dynamic contrast: medium, black adjust: off

That's what I used for Fallout 3, and it made it tolerable. Honestly I'm sick of the black crush on that console, and excepting 360 exclusives, only game on the ps3 now.
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post #3110 of 3237 Old 01-04-2010, 07:13 PM
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Yes. For the secondaries, it is just slightly trickier, as you decrease yellow Y by dropping yellow's red/green together, you increase cyan by raising its green/blue together, etc.

The good news is that the colors are dialed in. Green is undersaturated and therefore has a DE of 1.7 which is also throwing yellow off by a tad (DE of 1.2). All other colors are under a DE of .4.




The bad news is that the grayscale is still running low on red and too blue in the middle with not enough blue in the top end. I am currently at a backlight of 3, contrast of 86 and brightness of 46. This is resulting in output of 98.3 cdm2 an average gamma of 2.22 and an average DE of 2.9.




I know I have the equipment to measure this, but what about the following scenario. Can I lower the contrast to the point where RGB at 100% IRE is even and raise the backlight to compensate for the lower output? Even if this number is say 60 or so? This might give me a flatter blue response across the entire grayscale that can be corrected with the white balance controls. The downside would be the increase in backlight would increase the black level and produce a lower contrast on/off reading.
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post #3111 of 3237 Old 01-04-2010, 07:42 PM
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Originally Posted by slosvt View Post

I know I have the equipment to measure this, but what about the following scenario. Can I lower the contrast to the point where RGB at 100% IRE is even and raise the backlight to compensate for the lower output? Even if this number is say 60 or so? This might give me a flatter blue response across the entire grayscale that can be corrected with the white balance controls. The downside would be the increase in backlight would increase the black level and produce a lower contrast on/off reading.

Not a good idea, the contrast is more important than the grayscale, especially when you're already in the ballpark of D65 and the contrast is already pretty limited. Besides you simply can't force the blue response to be flat, lcds don't work that way, they always shift towards blue at low luminance.

The midtones aren't handled right either, if you calibrated based on 80 and 30 IRE then at least they should be spot on, but your graph indicates that they're not. Is that really as close as you can get? And that's starting from warm2? If you started at warm1, well try warm2. btw you need to calibrate at a higher backlight setting to achieve accurate results (given the limited precision most meters have at low luminance) Besides doing that, if you've tried your best you'll have to simply accept it for what it is.

I still think that your gamma curve is the bigger priority. It needs to be flat, your curve is really not flat. It looks as if you messed with the gamma settings until you achieved an average of 2.22, and that's simply not right. That's not the goal for setting gamma right. You need to make the curve flat, the average value is not important as long as the curve lies between 2.2 and 2.4. Trust me I've wasted a huge amount of time reading the gamma curve threads on this forum, and once you get past the long winded fights most of the calibrators at the end of the day agreed on an acceptable range instead of one simple figure. The curve needs to be flat because our eyes have a logarithmic sensitivity towards light that makes flat gamma performing monitors appear more natural to our eyes.
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post #3112 of 3237 Old 01-04-2010, 08:06 PM
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Thanks for the quick reply. I really do feel like I have tried everything I know to get the grayscale in tact. Color temp is Warm2, Movie, all extra settings are off (energy, black level, etc...). Red and blue simply do not want to cooperate with me Here is a pic of the grayscale post calibration on my Panny G10 and proof that I do know how to dial it in. lol



I tend to ignore the 0% and 10% readings due to the limitations of my meter, but 10% should not be that far off and I imagine that 0% should be close too given the rest of the readings. I have tried everything I did with my Panny with the Samsung, but I am having no luck and running out of ideas.

As far as the gamma. What is the best way to lower the top half without hurting the shape in the middle? I can either raise the contrast or raise the R/G/B gains in the same values to increase the contrast and lower the gamma up there. I have another meter coming tomorrow and I will use the i1 pro as reference with the Chromapure software. I hope to give the Sammy one more shot before the weekend.

It is kind of ironic that I can nail the grayscale/gamma on my Panny G10, but the colors are way off and not going anywhere without CMS. On the Sammy I can nail the color, but the grayscale/gamma are giving me fits. Oh the joys of calibration, what was I thinking when I decided to try it!?!?
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post #3113 of 3237 Old 01-04-2010, 08:44 PM
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Originally Posted by slosvt View Post

Here is a pic of the grayscale post calibration on my Panny G10 and proof that I do know how to dial it in. lol

Oh I see, sorry for thinking otherwise.

Quote:


I tend to ignore the 0% and 10% readings due to the limitations of my meter, but 10% should not be that far off and I imagine that 0% should be close too given the rest of the readings. I have tried everything I did with my Panny with the Samsung, but I am having no luck and running out of ideas.

10% stimulus for peak white of 100 cd/m2 is about .6 cd/m2. The red contribution is a fraction of that, but the measurement error is like .05 cd/m2 right (at least I know it is for my i1)? That means that the error in measuring the light is comparable to the relative amount of red (about a fifth of the total Y of white), imagine being unsure of if the value of .12 could really be .07 or .17 instead since they're both within the error bars! That's why it's not trust worthy.

But even if you could, you'll never get that lcd to behave like your plasma in that range because lcds have a blue push at low luminance.

Quote:


As far as the gamma. What is the best way to lower the top half without hurting the shape in the middle?

Just try different gamma settings until you get it right. This is what I do:

(1) change gamma
(2) reset brightness using pluge pattern
(3) remeasure the grayscale

I do that until I find the best gamma curve.

Quote:


It is kind of ironic that I can nail the grayscale/gamma on my Panny G10, but the colors are way off and not going anywhere without CMS. On the Sammy I can nail the color, but the grayscale/gamma are giving me fits. Oh the joys of calibration, what was I thinking when I decided to try it!?!?

Well I assume you're doing it for fun (that's why I got into it). If I was going to get the i1pro and premium software, I would just spend the money on a professional calibration and enjoy the superior picture, but that's just me.
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post #3114 of 3237 Old 01-05-2010, 11:18 AM
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Originally Posted by mahlerfan999 View Post

Oh sorry there is something really wrong about the huge black crush the 360 has, I measured it once and the gamma was 2.5 at default, when everything else has a default gamma of 2.1. Also the default brightness is all wrong.

Easy setup: brightness: 55, gamma: +3, dynamic contrast: medium, black adjust: off

That's what I used for Fallout 3, and it made it tolerable. Honestly I'm sick of the black crush on that console, and excepting 360 exclusives, only game on the ps3 now.

wat about the xbox it has this thing where u can put standerd or somthing
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post #3115 of 3237 Old 01-05-2010, 02:49 PM
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wat about the xbox it has this thing where u can put standerd or somthing

That's for dvd playback only. That setting won't change anything about the games.
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post #3116 of 3237 Old 01-06-2010, 12:53 PM
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Originally Posted by mahlerfan999 View Post

That's for dvd playback only. That setting won't change anything about the games.

oh arite idk im still using cliqs settings
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post #3117 of 3237 Old 01-06-2010, 03:04 PM
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oh arite idk im still using cliqs settings

But I just told you, and you know from experience, that the 360 behaves completely different from the other devices. Clicq calibrated with a ps3, not a 360. You should adjust brightness and gamma until you achieve your goal of seeing better, don't bother just copying settings. It would take you like one minute or less to dial in better settings. Just give it a try.
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post #3118 of 3237 Old 01-07-2010, 10:43 PM
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Originally Posted by mahlerfan999 View Post

But I just told you, and you know from experience, that the 360 behaves completely different from the other devices. Clicq calibrated with a ps3, not a 360. You should adjust brightness and gamma until you achieve your goal of seeing better, don't bother just copying settings. It would take you like one minute or less to dial in better settings. Just give it a try.

arite ill try this i had the same settings except the brightness was on 49 and the dynmaic contrast was on low.. are u sure that the medium would be better for black crush.. id figure it would be worse.. and are u in movie mode? i am.. it just looks really bad on the map afgan if u kno what i mean the ground looks so bright idk why
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post #3119 of 3237 Old 01-08-2010, 02:03 PM
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i have dynmac contrast on high for call of duty mw2
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post #3120 of 3237 Old 01-09-2010, 05:11 AM
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Hey, everyone. I'm a noob here. I just bought a Samsung LN32B540. I can't find a thread for that, and I read that the LNxxB550 and the LNxxB540 were essentially the same.

Anyways, I might have missed it, but does anyone have calibrations for a PS2 and original XBox connected via component? TIA.

Also, why is it bad to use calibration for movies on games?
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