Official LNXXA550 Calibration/Settings Thread - Page 28 - AVS Forum
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post #811 of 3237 Old 06-03-2008, 06:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chef jer View Post

the tv will output 5.1 via optical from over the air hd. if you want 5.1 while using the cablebox and hdmi you need to bypass the tv and run the optical from the cablebox to the receiver.

Chef Jer,
Thank you, the only problem is my receiver doen't have an optical input on it.

Info=Knowledge=Understanding=Better TV!
I see dead pixels!
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post #812 of 3237 Old 06-03-2008, 07:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HomieX View Post

RGB is set to limited/off
360 is on Standard

You do have it set to YPbPr right? The ps3 only passes BtB and WtW with YPbPr enabled.
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post #813 of 3237 Old 06-03-2008, 07:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chelhydra View Post

You should try clicq's settings.

I plugged these settings in this afternoon. They look pretty damn good. I boosted the backlight level 1 or 2 clicks to please the girlfriend, she said the picture was too dark. Gotta do what ya gotta do!
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post #814 of 3237 Old 06-03-2008, 07:50 PM
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I just upgraded to a LN46A550 from a LN469D, quite an improvement. I spent all afternoon/evening messing with the settings, turning options on and off, the usual for AV nuts like us.

I settled on Chelhyrda's hdtv settings in post 352, they seem very good, I only turned up the backlight level a few higher.

I tried many settings for xbox360 before settling on the one I'm going to stick with for a few days. I went back and forth between VGA and HDMI, and ended up settling on VGA. To me, the dark detail was better, and the game lag was slightly less (although that could be my brain playing a trick on me).

For VGA I used the following (xbox on expanded):
Mode: Movie
Backlight 6
Contrast 94
Brightness 45
Dynamic Contrast low
Gamma 0
White Balance: still working on it
Color: Warm1


Thats, it. I had HDMI looking very good, but I could not get the set to stop crushing blacks when I had HMDI = low, and without it on low the colors looked washed out.

I'll try again in a day or two and see if I can come up with better HDMI settings. I'll also try to get some high res pictures of HDMI vs VGA so we can have a more detailed discussion. I'll try to demonstrate with some demos so everyone who has a 360 can load them up on their screen for comparison (devil my cry will be the likely choice).
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post #815 of 3237 Old 06-04-2008, 05:48 AM
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To the guy that posted he had his 52 incher ISF calibrated, I would get my money back. I have the exact same TV so there is no difference as far as size and model goes, i put in exactly as your settings show and the movie mode in general is very dark even with subtle accent lighting in the room. I don't know why or how your seeing white whites and dark blacks but i am telling you, the results of using your settings for my set was less than desirable. Thanks for the post though, it is a good starting point I think.
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post #816 of 3237 Old 06-04-2008, 05:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HomieX View Post

Hi, I am having a hard time with this tv (LN40550) getting the blacks black with out the whole picture being to black and losing detail in the blacks. I have tried alot of the settings here in this thread, and while some look pretty good, it's either the blacks are alittle too gray, or I get a picture that is too dark and contrasty.(is that a word?)

I do have a light on behind the set, this does help the blacks some, but I just can't seem to get it just right. Here are my settings as of now. These are the same for my PS3 and Xbox 360(Both over HDMI)

Mode: Movie
Backlight 3
contrast 85
Brightness 50
Sharpness 20
Color 50
Tint 52/48

Detailed Settings
Black Adjust off
Dynamic Contrast off
Gamma +1
Color Space custom (Used clicq's settings for these)
White Balance (clicq's settings)
Flesh Tone 0
Edge Enhancement on or off...

Picture Options
Color tone Warm 2
Size Just Scan
HDMI Black level low

Thank you for any help you can give

Do you mostly have problems on scenes with white and black, or just dark scenes? Is it mostly in game or in movies? Do the picture settings in standard picture mode look better or worse to you?

If you're having problems with only dark scenes, you could try picking settings where the black looks a little "too gray", and then turning energy saver to auto to enable dynamic backlight dimming to drop the backlight and hopefully make your blacks darker in dark scenes.

Just making sure, but you have "black adjust" set to off as well, right?
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post #817 of 3237 Old 06-05-2008, 05:30 AM - Thread Starter
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clicq,

Tried your settings and I really like them. Thanks for the information and settings you have provided. It is much appreciated.
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post #818 of 3237 Old 06-05-2008, 06:50 AM
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I think in clicq's settings the blue is way off. More like mauve.
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post #819 of 3237 Old 06-05-2008, 08:24 AM
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chelhydra:

If you go into the color space settings and for blue, decrease the value of red to 0, does that fix the blues for you?

(Blue actually isn't correct at either setting, so if it looks better to you with red at 0, I'd just stick with that.)

If that doesn't work, could you try incrementing your B-gain by 1?

As I said, I'm still learning how all the controls interact, so I'm curious if the incorrect blue, in your perception, is due to the color space settings or the white balance.
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post #820 of 3237 Old 06-05-2008, 08:48 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by clicq View Post

chelhydra:

If you go into the color space settings and for blue, decrease the value of red to 0, does that fix the blues for you?

(Blue actually isn't correct at either setting, so if it looks better to you with red at 0, I'd just stick with that.)

If that doesn't work, could you try incrementing your B-gain by 1?

As I said, I'm still learning how all the controls interact, so I'm curious if the incorrect blue, in your perception, is due to the color space settings or the white balance.

Is there a reason that you messed with the color space for blue instead of white balance? Or better yet, can someone explain the benefits of messing with one as opposed to the other.
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post #821 of 3237 Old 06-05-2008, 09:23 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by outsiderwv View Post

Is there a reason that you messed with the color space for blue instead of white balance? Or better yet, can someone explain the benefits of messing with one as opposed to the other.

So I actually changed the white balance for blue slightly as well as the color space, it's just the the color space settings were more extreme.

Based on the calibration guide I followed, the white balance settings are primarily for just what the name implies, the white balance. Changing the white balance settings changes the color of white.

If you refer to my earlier post full of graphs, you'll notice the RGB levels graph. This shows the proportion of each color at different grayscale values relative to a given white point. The default white balance seems to have a bit too much blue and too little red, meaning the grayscale (grays are just less bright versions of white, in theory), will look too blue. Changing the white balance settings alters this graph.

Now the color space settings are mostly for changing what colors you see (i.e. when the scene calls for red, what color is it actually going to display on the TV?).

A graphical way to explain it -- if you look at the CIE diagrams I posted, the color space settings change the points on the triangle, and the white balance affects the points you see in the middle.

The controls interact a little bit, which is why it's sometimes hard to get things correct.

You'd get the most benefit from having a good grayscale (otherwise, think of it roughly as trying to paint on tinted paper that changes with how bright the part of the scene is). The color space settings would probably only be really noticeable if the set had a severe color push.
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post #822 of 3237 Old 06-05-2008, 10:56 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by clicq View Post

So I actually changed the white balance for blue slightly as well as the color space, it's just the the color space settings were more extreme.

Based on the calibration guide I followed, the white balance settings are primarily for just what the name implies, the white balance. Changing the white balance settings changes the color of white.

If you refer to my earlier post full of graphs, you'll notice the RGB levels graph. This shows the proportion of each color at different grayscale values relative to a given white point. The default white balance seems to have a bit too much blue and too little red, meaning the grayscale (grays are just less bright versions of white, in theory), will look too blue. Changing the white balance settings alters this graph.

Now the color space settings are mostly for changing what colors you see (i.e. when the scene calls for red, what color is it actually going to display on the TV?).

A graphical way to explain it -- if you look at the CIE diagrams I posted, the color space settings change the points on the triangle, and the white balance affects the points you see in the middle.

The controls interact a little bit, which is why it's sometimes hard to get things correct.

You'd get the most benefit from having a good grayscale (otherwise, think of it roughly as trying to paint on tinted paper that changes with how bright the part of the scene is). The color space settings would probably only be really noticeable if the set had a severe color push.


Thanks for the input. Any ideas on how to fix the blue that people have been talking about? I didn't notice too much on my blue-ray movies....blue looked blue ; however it would be nice to try and fix the issue with all of the advanced knowledge in this forum. I think you have done an excellent job by posting all of the information you have and all of the settings that you have calibrated yourself. Again, not enough can be said for your great work. If you increase the blue gain as you said +1, and remove the red tint from the color space....does this make blue...more blue? Or does this change the charts you posted and provide results that are more off than before? The reason I ask...is I have always read/heard that once blue is taken care of....red and green should be easily configured with blue configured properly.

Thanks in advance.
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post #823 of 3237 Old 06-05-2008, 04:35 PM
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To explain my suggestion to increase blue gain or decrease red in the color space settings for blue, chelhydra noted that blues looked kind of purplish on his set, which means there's too much red in blue.

My blue color space setting has a bit of red in it, so my first thought would be to try to reduce the red there. The color space settings are somewhat limited in their range though, so if it still looked purplish, the only other thing to do is make blue higher. Since blue is already maxed out in the color space settings, you have to mess with the white balance. This does mess up the white balance a bit, but no TV is perfect and you have to make compromises in making adjustments .

(Admittedly, I'm not too good at knowing which compromises to make yet.)

Making those changes will make blue have less red in it, but then the problem is green. If you have too little red, the blue will switch to having a slightly green tint.

Now making this more complicated is that in addition to the "color", there is also the "brightness". So even if blue is the right color, if it's not bright enough (relative to the other colors), there will be a perceived lack of blue, if that makes sense. When you reduce red in the color settings, you also reduce the blue "brightness" (since brightness is roughly related to the sum of all the colors). This is more or less what happens when you adjust the color control, reducing it reduces the brightness of all the colors.

And now back to the Samsung A550 . To get the white balance correct, I had to reduce the blue offset and gain slightly in the white balance setting. This makes the blue "brightness" too low. Cranking up blue in the color space setting helped a little, but it wasn't enough, plus the color of blue was slightly off. So this is where I had to compromise a little bit. No amount of messing with the color space settings got blue to be the right color, so I went for getting the luminance more correct.

I also read that getting red correct would make green and blue follow, and that the eye is less sensitive to blue than the other colors, so I settled for getting red and green correct and didn't worry too much about blue.
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post #824 of 3237 Old 06-05-2008, 05:30 PM
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hey clicq, i have a question, im using your white balance and color space settings of course but i have a question , what should "COLOR" be set on? i see you have it set on 50, but that kinda gives less vibrant colors or am i wrong? setting it on 55 or 57 messes things up?
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post #825 of 3237 Old 06-05-2008, 05:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by clicq View Post

Do you mostly have problems on scenes with white and black, or just dark scenes? Is it mostly in game or in movies? Do the picture settings in standard picture mode look better or worse to you?

For an example, in a Blu-Ray movie trailer the actor in the trailer has black/ dark brown hair, his hair will look pitch black with no detail within his hair. Turn the brightness way up, and there is the detail (different shades of black, strands of hair, stuff like that). However, now the picture is washed out. Maybe it's ment to be that dark, I don't know. So in a nutshell I don't feel Im getting all the detail in blacks that I should.

I like the movie settings you came up with, standard looks too blueish to me.


If you're having problems with only dark scenes, you could try picking settings where the black looks a little "too gray", and then turning energy saver to auto to enable dynamic backlight dimming to drop the backlight and hopefully make your blacks darker in dark scenes.

I will try that, thanks

Just making sure, but you have "black adjust" set to off as well, right?

Black adjust is off. What does this REALLY do for the picture?

Thanks for your help man!

.
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post #826 of 3237 Old 06-05-2008, 06:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HomieX View Post

Black adjust is off. What does this REALLY do for the picture?

As far as I can tell, it basically crushes blacks (at various levels) to make the picture look more "contrasty", which I guess some people like?

Quote:
Originally Posted by lamonsasa View Post

hey clicq, i have a question, im using your white balance and color space settings of course but i have a question , what should "COLOR" be set on? i see you have it set on 50, but that kinda gives less vibrant colors or am i wrong? setting it on 55 or 57 messes things up?

The color control, roughly speaking, controls the brightness of the colors relative to white. Now when calibrating, the HD standard says that the brightness of a color, say red, has to be X% of white, so you try to set the color control to that value. But there's a bit of leeway in setting the control, because the TV isn't consistent across all brightness values (i.e. setting the color control to be correct for 100% saturated colors is likely going to be wrong for 75% saturated colors).

Basically, that was all for me to say that, I'm of the opinion that you should use my (and really anybody's) settings only to get into the ballpark, at which point you tweak to your preference. So if you like the picture with the color setting at 55 or 57, then stick with it .

But if you really want to know, on my TV with my brightness/contrast/backlight settings, increasing the color control past 50 makes the colors a little too bright and makes red a little too prominent, according to my colorimeter. I can imagine, though, that using different brightness/contrast/backlight settings and even different sources may require some tweaking of the color control.
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post #827 of 3237 Old 06-05-2008, 06:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by clicq View Post

I'm waiting for the same bundle... and I don't think the first thing I'll be doing is calibrating it, so it may take me a day (or several, depending on how good MGS4 is) .

It'll be amazing. The Courage is Solid trailer has convinced me of that.

But it'll be more amazing with calibrated colors.

I'm also still trying to find decent Wii settings over component. It seems everyone has a 360, with nary a Wii to be found.
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post #828 of 3237 Old 06-05-2008, 08:06 PM
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Ok..i just took my sony 40v4100 back and exchanged it for this set and im seeing ghosting and smearing in WoW and gaming on my 360 both via hdmi...wtf!

Sigh..
I enabled game mode and it helped slightly but not enough to live with the horrid gamma, ive turned everything off as far as the dynamic contrast etc.

I like the text a bit more on this set so far but the smearing means its going back unless i can find setting that will help this.
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post #829 of 3237 Old 06-05-2008, 08:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fociz View Post

Ok..i just took my sony 40v4100 back and exchanged it for this set and im seeing ghosting and smearing in WoW and gaming on my 360 both via hdmi...wtf!

Sigh..
I enabled game mode and it helped slightly but not enough to live with the horrid gamma, ive turned everything off as far as the dynamic contrast etc.

I like the text a bit more on this set so far but the smearing means its going back unless i can find setting that will help this.

what size did you get and do you have DNR set to off?
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post #830 of 3237 Old 06-05-2008, 08:41 PM
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i got the 40' a550.

Yes DNR is off.
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post #831 of 3237 Old 06-05-2008, 10:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fociz View Post

i got the 40' a550.

Yes DNR is off.

When you said game mode helped, did you mean you would have been happy with game mode except for the fact that the image settings are whack, or that even the performance in game mode isn't good enough?

I would try the following:
1) Switch to movie mode in the picture settings, turn down sharpness to 0 and make sure digital noise reduction, edge enhancement, dynamic contrast, and flesh tone are set to off or 0.
2) If the above doesn't work, try naming the inputs PC and GAME.

If that still doesn't work, well, I'm out of ideas
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post #832 of 3237 Old 06-05-2008, 11:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by clicq View Post

I spent some more time with my TV today; I wanted to correct some of the color problems. Only changes are with the color setting and color space settings.

Slightly modified settings:
(This with the mode at movie)
Backlight = 4
Contrast = 90
Brightness = 50
Sharpness = 0
Color = 50 (was 47)
Tint = G52/R48

DETAILED SETTINGS

Black Adjust = Off
Dynamic Contrast = Off
Gamma = 0
Color Space = Custom
Red: R47 - G0 - B0 (was R45 - G0 - B0)
Green: R19 - G50 - B0 (was R11 - G50 - B0) EDIT: I had the old and new settings swapped
Blue: R10 - G0 - B100 (was R9 - G0 - B68)
Yellow: R50 - G50 - B0
Cyan: R20 - G46 - B46
Magenta: R35 - G0 - B47 (was R50 - G0 - B50)
Flesh Tone = 0
Edge Enhancement = Off
Xycc = Off

WHITE BALANCE

R-Offset = 26
G-Offset = 25
B-Offset = 23
R-Gain = 33
G-Gain = 25
B-Gain = 23

PICTURE OPTIONS

Color Tone = Warm 2
Digital N/R = Off
HDMI Black Level = Normal (note: this is probably only for PCs, use low if you're unsure)
Film Mode = off
Blue Mode = Off

Energy Saving = Off
Entertainment modes = Off

The graphs aren't too much different, so I'm not including them again. Grayscale is practically the same, since the white balance didn't change much).

I will include the before and after deltaE values though for color (Y = yellow, C = cyan, M = magenta).
R: 3.7 (was 10)
G: 3.0 (was 4.7)
B: 14.8 (was 24.6)
Y: 2.6 (was 3.1)
C: 1.4 (was 2.2)
M: 3.4 (was 7.2)

I should point out again that really, the color space settings don't make much of a difference. I can tell a slight difference if I switch between my color space settings and native only on anime, which tends to have saturated colors.

ciclq, those settings seem pretty good! They make the picture very natural. The only thing that i do not like is that blacklight is olnly 4. It makes the picture darker than it should be. For example I was watching the movie awards and scenes where there's obviously a lot of projectors in the face of the presenters seemed unnaturally shadowish/darkish. If I turn backlight to 5 or 6 picture looks much better, but not sure how does that affect all the other balances and settings.
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post #833 of 3237 Old 06-06-2008, 12:19 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by clicq View Post

When you said game mode helped, did you mean you would have been happy with game mode except for the fact that the image settings are whack, or that even the performance in game mode isn't good enough?

I would try the following:
1) Switch to movie mode in the picture settings, turn down sharpness to 0 and make sure digital noise reduction, edge enhancement, dynamic contrast, and flesh tone are set to off or 0.
2) If the above doesn't work, try naming the inputs PC and GAME.

If that still doesn't work, well, I'm out of ideas


Thx Clicq i tried everything you said, there is still smearing/ghosting during gameplay which really bums me out.

5ms my ass, why are we still getting this type of performance from lcd tech this late in the game?

For what its worth the sony had 0 smearing/ghosting that i could detect and im seriously picky about this kind of thing, it is supposedly rated at 8ms.
I dont know what it is about these sets, why one with better specs ghosts and the other doesnt, must be something in the different compnents used(obviously)or their engines running the panels.

Im running this set from a high end pc via dvi-hdmi, running the ps3 and 360 both via hdmi.

This set displays text quite well(better than the sony)in native 1920x1080p and yet the sony tops it in response time...whatever.

Id like to slap the aholes who decided on this tech anyway, its actually worse than crt in quality but hey, its thin!

/shoots self.

Edit. I think im going to go back to the sony again..i dont know what else is out there in the 40' range that competes, ive looked and read up on the LG's with not many good reviews, i was going to bite the bullet and try a W series Sony but they seem to have loads of problems too.

I dont want a a650/750 cause i dont wanna have to stare at the reflection of my fat head in front of my monitor(wtf were they thinking? glossy screen? wasnt it one of lcd's strengths to have no glare?)after paying $2k dollars.

It seems with all the sets atm you sacrifice one thing to have another.
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post #834 of 3237 Old 06-06-2008, 12:20 AM
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Sounds like a defect since you are apparently the only one with the problem. I would go back to Sony.

Justin
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post #835 of 3237 Old 06-06-2008, 12:21 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fociz View Post

Thx Clicq i tried everything you said, there is still smearing/ghosting during gameplay which really bums me out.

5ms my ass, why are we still getting this type of performance from lcd tech this late in the game?

For what its worth the sony had 0 smearing/ghosting that i could detect and im seriously picky about this kind of thing, it is supposedly rated at 8ms.
I dont know what it is about these sets, why one with better specs ghosts and the other doesnt, must be something in the different compnents used(obviously)or their engines running the panels.

Im running this set from a high end pc via dvi-hdmi, running the ps3 and 360 both via hdmi.

This set displays text quite well(better than the sony)in native 1920x1080p and yet the sony tops it in response time...whatever.

Id like to slap the aholes who decided on this tech anyway, its actually worse than crt in quality but hey, its thin!

/shoots self.


Its because the panel is 60hz, not because of the response time.

Even though I don't share the same problem.
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post #836 of 3237 Old 06-06-2008, 12:29 AM
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Originally Posted by TheBeginning View Post

Its because the panel is 60hz, not because of the response time.

Even though I don't share the same problem.

Duly noted but over at the Sony W series thread im reading complaints of smearing & ghosting, are the W's not 120hz?
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post #837 of 3237 Old 06-06-2008, 06:04 AM
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Originally Posted by KurtCocain View Post

ciclq, those settings seem pretty good! They make the picture very natural. The only thing that i do not like is that blacklight is olnly 4. It makes the picture darker than it should be. For example I was watching the movie awards and scenes where there's obviously a lot of projectors in the face of the presenters seemed unnaturally shadowish/darkish. If I turn backlight to 5 or 6 picture looks much better, but not sure how does that affect all the other balances and settings.

I haven't done any measurements at different backlight settings (though next time I get my meter out, I will), but I think as long as you're not hitting the extremes of the backlight (i.e. putting it to 0 or 10), it should be OK.

From what I recall when changing settings and taking measurements on the meter, the white balance and color settings are fairly independent of brightness, contrast, and backlight, so changing those settings should be safe, though again, I'll check it for sure next time I have the meter out .
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post #838 of 3237 Old 06-06-2008, 07:04 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by clicq View Post

To explain my suggestion to increase blue gain or decrease red in the color space settings for blue, chelhydra noted that blues looked kind of purplish on his set, which means there's too much red in blue.

My blue color space setting has a bit of red in it, so my first thought would be to try to reduce the red there. The color space settings are somewhat limited in their range though, so if it still looked purplish, the only other thing to do is make blue higher. Since blue is already maxed out in the color space settings, you have to mess with the white balance. This does mess up the white balance a bit, but no TV is perfect and you have to make compromises in making adjustments .

(Admittedly, I'm not too good at knowing which compromises to make yet.)

Making those changes will make blue have less red in it, but then the problem is green. If you have too little red, the blue will switch to having a slightly green tint.

Now making this more complicated is that in addition to the "color", there is also the "brightness". So even if blue is the right color, if it's not bright enough (relative to the other colors), there will be a perceived lack of blue, if that makes sense. When you reduce red in the color settings, you also reduce the blue "brightness" (since brightness is roughly related to the sum of all the colors). This is more or less what happens when you adjust the color control, reducing it reduces the brightness of all the colors.

And now back to the Samsung A550 . To get the white balance correct, I had to reduce the blue offset and gain slightly in the white balance setting. This makes the blue "brightness" too low. Cranking up blue in the color space setting helped a little, but it wasn't enough, plus the color of blue was slightly off. So this is where I had to compromise a little bit. No amount of messing with the color space settings got blue to be the right color, so I went for getting the luminance more correct.

I also read that getting red correct would make green and blue follow, and that the eye is less sensitive to blue than the other colors, so I settled for getting red and green correct and didn't worry too much about blue.

Thanks for the information. Looking forward to you calibration tests/settings with your blue-ray player. Also what does having the backlight at 5 and energy savings at low give....about a back light of 4, hehe . I have no idea.
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post #839 of 3237 Old 06-06-2008, 09:07 AM
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OK, so I got the 530 and tried crispy's ISF'ED settings and like many folks here they were green. I was using a PS3 and thought to change my output to RGB FULL and BAMM, awesome looking picture. Just thought I would share that when you post your settings it's also a good idea to post the source settings as well.

How to identify a future projector owner, he's the kid sitting two feet from the 42" plasma.
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=954837
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post #840 of 3237 Old 06-06-2008, 10:18 AM
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Can anyone out here help me with a sound problem...I'm a bit confuse yet as to getting 5.1 sound outputted from my LN40A550. I have a Motorola DCH6416 DVR/Cable Box. A Panny SC-PT 950 DVD/Receiver. I have both the cable box & the Panny hooked up via HDMI to the Sammy, and Audio out from the Sammy connected to the Panny via RCA cables. When playing DVD's I get excellant 5.1 surrond sound, but when watch HDTV, on channels that have 5.1 surrond, it doesn't seem like I'm getting 5.1 surround. My Panny doen't have an Optical input, so that is not an option for me or I would have connected the cable box to the Panny via optical. I'm usally really good with Audio problems, but this one has me scratching my head...
BTW: The picture on the Sammy playing a DVD is sooo Great! And pretty damn good on HD & even SD!

Info=Knowledge=Understanding=Better TV!
I see dead pixels!
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