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post #181 of 1418 Old 05-01-2008, 09:49 AM
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Originally Posted by 8IronBob View Post

I'm thinking that, but on the same token, I'm expecting the W4100 to be almost on par with the XBR4 as far as specs, quality, and performance are concerned. We'll need to see if my choice comes down to either the W4100 or the Samsung A650, since they're going to be very closely speced. It's just gonna be too tough of a call, imo.

Well, if the W4100 just is on par with the XBR4 than I'd definitely get the 650 if they're around the same price. Unless you just have to have a matte screen.
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post #182 of 1418 Old 05-01-2008, 09:53 AM
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Well, I'm considering the fact that the lighting conditions and everything, having an LCD with a glossy screen like that, and the red border, and everything... That just seems like it would distract me to all hell. I mean, I just don't find a hole on the bottom of the bezel as distracting as a red border. On top of that, a glossy screen on the A650 would almost lead me to consider a plasma, if I wanted gloss or reflections off a screen. So, I do feel that having semi-gloss and still have 120Hz processing will make me feel fairly confident with the W4100...

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post #183 of 1418 Old 05-01-2008, 10:09 AM - Thread Starter
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I am almost sure that the W4100 will definitely be definitely better than XBR4.We already say that V4100 is better than the XBR4!!As for the 8bit vs 10bit I think we over discuss this.Good the theory,but what when it comes in REALITY?I have seen both EU V3000 and W3000(the EU V3000 doesnt have 10bit).The W3000 was JUST slightly better,and some of the other shoppers werent even able to notice any difference in colours
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post #184 of 1418 Old 05-01-2008, 10:13 AM
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Originally Posted by guruintraining View Post

maybe maybe not, i think the msrp of the Z will be the same as the 750, since it includes DLNA.

while the w maybe a bit less with the 650. probally a price between the 550 and 650 MSRP.

KDL40Z4100 - MSRP:$2299
KDL46Z4100 - MSRP:$2799
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post #185 of 1418 Old 05-01-2008, 10:22 AM
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Originally Posted by Grodzdad View Post

KDL40Z4100 - MSRP:$2299
KDL46Z4100 - MSRP:$2799

Hmm... Wow, seems like Sony's really sealing the deal in pricing between themselves and Samsung this time. This is definitely a side of Sony we've never seen before, I can tell you that much... So much for that "premium" to own the name, rather than the features and quality. Just better hope that they decide to throw in the "kitchen sink" with features like Samsung did, although I think Sony may cut a few corners to compete with them.

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post #186 of 1418 Old 05-01-2008, 10:26 AM
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Originally Posted by 8IronBob View Post

Hmm... Wow, seems like Sony's really sealing the deal in pricing between themselves and Samsung this time. This is definitely a side of Sony we've never seen before, I can tell you that much... So much for that "premium" to own the name, rather than the features and quality. Just better hope that they decide to throw in the "kitchen sink" with features like Samsung did, although I think Sony may cut a few corners to compete with them.

the xbrs then will have the premium price then from what this is looking like now.
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post #187 of 1418 Old 05-01-2008, 10:31 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Grodzdad View Post

KDL40Z4100 - MSRP:$2299
KDL46Z4100 - MSRP:$2799

Damn, the Z4100 is cheaper than the 650. If the XBR8 comes in at $3k+ street, then it's the Z4100 for me, or maybe a 650 if the Z is not that great.
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post #188 of 1418 Old 05-01-2008, 10:37 AM
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Yeah... On top of that, for those who want the 120Hz, but don't want to exactly pay top dollar for going 10-bit, then I'd say that the W4100 may just be the "sweet spot" for those who are looking to enter the Bravia market. I mean, the W4100 may just be enough to consider some futureproofing, just so long as the picture quality will make it worth going between the V and Z Series, and accepting that difference.

Just depends on how much "Big River" can discount them, tho, that'll be the deciding factor, as I'm still going for that $2K budget on a 46".
As of right now, the V4100 already MSRPs at that, so I'm hoping that Big River will bring the W4100 to around that. They just did that with the A650, so I'd expect no different from the Sony camp.

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post #189 of 1418 Old 05-01-2008, 12:03 PM
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What's Big River?
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post #190 of 1418 Old 05-01-2008, 12:08 PM - Thread Starter
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amazon
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post #191 of 1418 Old 05-01-2008, 12:21 PM
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Originally Posted by CHRISGEOFROMGREE View Post

amazon

Oh, yeah I guess that's a big river, thanks!
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post #192 of 1418 Old 05-01-2008, 01:21 PM
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so no smearing in the V series?
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post #193 of 1418 Old 05-01-2008, 01:57 PM
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Quote:


KDL40Z4100 - MSRP:$2299
KDL46Z4100 - MSRP:$2799

Quote:


Hmm... Wow, seems like Sony's really sealing the deal in pricing between themselves and Samsung this time. This is definitely a side of Sony we've never seen before, I can tell you that much... So much for that "premium" to own the name, rather than the features and quality. Just better hope that they decide to throw in the "kitchen sink" with features like Samsung did, although I think Sony may cut a few corners to compete with them.

Those prices don't demonstrate any sort of reduction if they're recent, official, and final. Z's are NOT this years XBR's, and the 46XBR's were $3299 (MSRP?) LAST year at launch. Of course pricing is going to drop a bit year over year, even for Sony. $2800 is pretty much in line with what anyone would have guessed for the first tier of sub-XBR models--give or take $100. If those are final, it probably suggests the aggressive reductions are only on the very low end, mostly to compete with Vizio.
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post #194 of 1418 Old 05-01-2008, 02:05 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by davez82 View Post

so no smearing in the V series?

From the current owners no
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post #195 of 1418 Old 05-01-2008, 02:28 PM
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check this link out if your thinking of buying soon http://gizmodo.com/385729/dealzmodo-...eap-next-month

i'll probably wait another month or two to see how this works out
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post #196 of 1418 Old 05-01-2008, 03:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Orta View Post

Those prices don't demonstrate any sort of reduction if they're recent, official, and final. Z's are NOT this years XBR's, and the 46XBR's were $3299 (MSRP?) LAST year at launch. Of course pricing is going to drop a bit year over year, even for Sony. $2800 is pretty much in line with what anyone would have guessed for the first tier of sub-XBR models--give or take $100. If those are final, it probably suggests the aggressive reductions are only on the very low end, mostly to compete with Vizio.

Z is a new model above the W series, pretty much equivalent to last year's XBR4. It competes feature-wize with the 650, and undercuts it in price. It's Hard to argue that this isn't aggressive pricing from Sony.
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post #197 of 1418 Old 05-01-2008, 03:19 PM
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Yeah, hard to believe that the Z has the same features as the A750, yet has the same price as the A650, or even a little under that. That's the thing right there... Seems like the Z series will definitely sell better than the A750, case and point. Expect the W and Z series to be biiiiig sellers this year.

EDIT: Actually, I can see that Amazon actually has a chart that shows the features of all the models in the 2008 lineup.
Seems like the dynamic contrast of the W and Z series is almost like the Samsung A550 at 30K:1. Rather disappointing that Sony couldn't bounce that up to Samsung's 50K:1 like they have on the A650. Never really noticed the dynamic contrast until now, since they only listed the true contrast ratios on some of these spec lists.

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post #198 of 1418 Old 05-01-2008, 04:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 8IronBob View Post

Yeah, hard to believe that the Z has the same features as the A750, yet has the same price as the A650, or even a little under that. That's the thing right there... Seems like the Z series will definitely sell better than the A750, case and point. Expect the W and Z series to be biiiiig sellers this year.

EDIT: Actually, I can see that Amazon actually has a chart that shows the features of all the models in the 2008 lineup.
Seems like the dynamic contrast of the W and Z series is almost like the Samsung A550 at 30K:1. Rather disappointing that Sony couldn't bounce that up to Samsung's 50K:1 like they have on the A650. Never really noticed the dynamic contrast until now, since they only listed the true contrast ratios on some of these spec lists.

you cant compare between manufacturers, so sammy may boast the higher contrast, BUT it doesnt constitute a better picture. sammy in the past over do the contrast so your loosing some detail in dark scenes.
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post #199 of 1418 Old 05-01-2008, 04:49 PM
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"Actually, I can see that Amazon actually has a chart that shows the features of all the models in the 2008 lineup."

Can you post the link, please?
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post #200 of 1418 Old 05-01-2008, 05:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ericramz View Post

check this link out if your thinking of buying soon http://gizmodo.com/385729/dealzmodo-...eap-next-month

i'll probably wait another month or two to see how this works out

'

2008 46S is already listed at 1599. this article says to wait but the price is already here. dumb.
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post #201 of 1418 Old 05-01-2008, 06:57 PM
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I'm really beginning to eye this TV as my next possible purchase. I've got a few questions for those who know what they're talking about.


I'm really big on gaming, and thus I'm terrified of these LCD Panels and input lag. Does 120hz really make a big difference in any of this? It sounds like these V4100's might not have much of a problem with ghosting anyway.


I'm really just wondering what people think is the best recommendation for a big gamer out of Sony's 2008 LCD Panel lineup? Also, which panels out of their lineup have a 10 bit panel/ and or 10 bit processing?


Thanks for any help.

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post #202 of 1418 Old 05-01-2008, 07:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 8IronBob View Post

Yeah, hard to believe that the Z has the same features as the A750, yet has the same price as the A650, or even a little under that. That's the thing right there... Seems like the Z series will definitely sell better than the A750, case and point. Expect the W and Z series to be biiiiig sellers this year.

EDIT: Actually, I can see that Amazon actually has a chart that shows the features of all the models in the 2008 lineup.
Seems like the dynamic contrast of the W and Z series is almost like the Samsung A550 at 30K:1. Rather disappointing that Sony couldn't bounce that up to Samsung's 50K:1 like they have on the A650. Never really noticed the dynamic contrast until now, since they only listed the true contrast ratios on some of these spec lists.

Don't you know man, sony will offer the 50k ratio in up coming future models so as to suck more money out of your wallets.
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post #203 of 1418 Old 05-01-2008, 09:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 8IronBob View Post

Yeah, hard to believe that the Z has the same features as the A750, yet has the same price as the A650, or even a little under that. That's the thing right there... Seems like the Z series will definitely sell better than the A750, case and point. Expect the W and Z series to be biiiiig sellers this year.

EDIT: Actually, I can see that Amazon actually has a chart that shows the features of all the models in the 2008 lineup.
Seems like the dynamic contrast of the W and Z series is almost like the Samsung A550 at 30K:1. Rather disappointing that Sony couldn't bounce that up to Samsung's 50K:1 like they have on the A650. Never really noticed the dynamic contrast until now, since they only listed the true contrast ratios on some of these spec lists.

Where is this list you mention? I just spent 5 minutes looking for it and found nothing.

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post #204 of 1418 Old 05-01-2008, 09:56 PM
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That's because that list is listed under the Sony KDL-XBR6 description.

http://www.amazon.com/Sony-Bravia-KD...9700696&sr=8-1

Just scroll down a bit, and you'll see the chart. It should be the section titled: "Which Sony Bravia Series is Right for You?" Enjoy.
According to that list it doesn't seem like the Z4100 is gonna have DLNA after all. What a waste over the W4100...
All you're really gaining in the Z Series is the 10-bit technology, from what it looks like to me.

Also, basically, from what I see... The W Series almost makes it look like it's a cross between the A550 and A650, as far as picture features and the 120Hz processing... I can see why Sony priced their W Series right in the middle of the two Samsungs like that.

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post #205 of 1418 Old 05-02-2008, 12:05 AM
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The comparison chart found at amazon should be taken with a big grain a salt.
As usual, information (even release from the same company) does not always match:
chart in amazon shows that z4100 serie is missing the x.v. color and DLNA, but
the 40z4100 page marketed at http://www.sony.com/ces/index.html is listing x.v. color and DLNA compliant as some of its features.
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post #206 of 1418 Old 05-02-2008, 12:54 AM
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amazon link is dead.

i now see a lot of contradicting information regarding 8/10 bit panels, 120hz, true 24p, and among other specs being thrown around now which confuses alot of people including me.

I think we should just stick to the official specs sheets that come straight from sony. all these speculation and misinformation are not helping.
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post #207 of 1418 Old 05-02-2008, 08:52 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cmmc38 View Post

2. Considering this set does not refresh at 120mhz, what does the CineMotion setting do?

Quote:
Originally Posted by gecko411 View Post

it says this tv can accept 24fps source such as the ps3. does that make the picture better even though it does not have 120 hz?

Yes, there is a benefit. Sony has been offering Cinemotion on plenty of sets without 120hz.

I think the advantage is this: By accepting a 24P signal, or reversing the 3:2 pulldown (Cinemotion), they are able to work on an image that is free from Telecine Judder. This gives much cleaner frames for the rest of the processing to work on. In the end, they must be converted back to a frame rate that the set can display. But doing this after the processing (rather than before) improves PQ, as many Sony owners will tell you.

Perhaps an expert could provide additional thoughts.

-Chris
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post #208 of 1418 Old 05-02-2008, 10:10 AM
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Also, with respect to cinemotion, 3:2 detection can result in a better de-interlacing process.

A good 60hz set can take the 24fps information embedded in a 1080i60 signal and optimize them for 60fps progressive display on the set. This is done as a series of complete frames, albeit not evenly (AA BBB CC etc.) By contrast, the telecine process gives you 30fps, necessitating that some frames contain fields from different frames in the film source.

This article has a good illustration of the benefits:
http://hometheatermag.com/gearworks/607gear/

-Chris
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post #209 of 1418 Old 05-02-2008, 12:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by caa100 View Post

Also, with respect to cinemotion, 3:2 detection can result in a better de-interlacing process.

A good 60hz set can take the 24fps information embedded in a 1080i60 signal and optimize them for 60fps progressive display on the set. This is done as a series of complete frames, albeit not evenly (AA BBB CC etc.) By contrast, the telecine process gives you 30fps, necessitating that some frames contain fields from different frames in the film source.

This article has a good illustration of the benefits:
http://hometheatermag.com/gearworks/607gear/

Which is where Sony came up with that spec for the V Series and higher. With the 120Hz TVs from the W Series all the way up to XBR8, I'm definitely thinking that's where the true 24fps effect will kick in. I mean, even tho the V Series will accept it, the effect probably won't be nearly as significant without that extra processing power, imo.

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post #210 of 1418 Old 05-02-2008, 01:18 PM
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The link for the Bravia comparisons seems to be getting mangled in the post. But search for XBR6 on Amazon and click the first link for the 32" set.
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