Official Samsung LNxxA750 Owners Thread - Page 11 - AVS Forum
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post #301 of 12494 Old 05-13-2008, 08:14 AM
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Originally Posted by spfhelmiii View Post

Can anyone post a link to an online User Manual for the 750? I'm still trying to confirm whether the 750 supports 1080p over component or just HDMI. I know one poster said that it did, but before I make a decision I want to confirm this.

If there is no user manual, could someone post the best number to call to get a Samsung rep to ask these questions?

Much appreciated, thanks.

Have you ever heard a site call www.samsung.com?

http://www.samsung.com/us/support/do...Type=D&vType=R

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post #302 of 12494 Old 05-13-2008, 08:21 AM
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Originally Posted by caa100 View Post

I disagree. The content of a frame does not have to be manipulated in any way to repeat it. All it has to do is sit in a buffer. Processing is manipulation of the frame itself - color correction, edge enhancement, motion interpolation. That's the stuff that causes input lag, and that is why it is bypassed in game mode.

And think about it: if throttling back to 60hz would improve performance of the set, why would such an "improvement" be reserved for a lame analog PC connection?


No...processing is a general term. I didn't say that it was having PQ processing to double the frame. Something has to tell the signal to double...thus a video "process" is required. Regardless of how quick this is, there has to be some delay in this (even repeating the buffer is a delay)...and the doubling of the frame is bound to cause a delay. 1:1 vs 1:2...makes perfect sense to me. Maybe someone with an degree in this field can shed some light on this...but seems like simple physics to me.

Also...there has been speculation that the Game mode also runs at 60Hz...thus, the reason for the lack of lag in this mode. This is similar to the thoughts on the Game/Text mode on the XBR series (also thought to run at 60Hz in this mode).

If you have a better explanation for why the GAME mode gets no lag when all other modes do...I am all ears.

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post #303 of 12494 Old 05-13-2008, 10:47 AM
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Originally Posted by Datacide View Post

No...processing is a general term. I didn't say that it was having PQ processing to double the frame. Something has to tell the signal to double...thus a video "process" is required. Regardless of how quick this is, there has to be some delay in this (even repeating the buffer is a delay)...and the doubling of the frame is bound to cause a delay. 1:1 vs 1:2...makes perfect sense to me. Maybe someone with an degree in this field can shed some light on this...but seems like simple physics to me.

If you have a buffer that is checked every 1/120th of a second, you can place something there every 60th of a second, and it will get checked twice. In fact, you could just leave it there for a second an and it will be checked 120 times. You are not doing any additional work. There is no "cost" for repeating the frame.

I don't know how a TV works, but I have written direct to video hardware and I can attest to this. If I want the screen to be blue for one minute, I do not have to check the monitor's refresh rate and generate enough blue screens. I simply fill the buffer with what I want, and leave it in the buffer as long as I want it there. The display hardware checks the buffer according to its own schedule.

Like I said, I dont know how a TV works. But the point is, it is not safe to assume that doubling a frame increases work. Nor, really, should we assume the opposite
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Originally Posted by Datacide View Post

Also...there has been speculation that the Game mode also runs at 60Hz...thus, the reason for the lack of lag in this mode. This is similar to the thoughts on the Game/Text mode on the XBR series (also thought to run at 60Hz in this mode).

If you have a better explanation for why the GAME mode gets no lag when all other modes do...I am all ears.

When you want to speed up a PC game, you do not adjust the refresh rate of your monitor. You turn down the processing that your video card must execute (shaders, aliasing, etc.).

Same idea, except that game mode eliminates processing, instead of adjusting it.

Suppose that you need to load a buffer every 1/60th of a second. Your ability to get that done would not be impacted were I to check the buffer once each 1/60th of a second or twice. You might not even know what I am doing with it.

Now suppose that you, Lestat and Studdad each have to check the image and possibly adjust it before putting it on the buffer. Even if each of you can get your job done in 1/60th of a second, there will be lag. Once you get rolling, you may be able to get a frame onto the buffer every 1/60th of a second. But it will take a couple of moments before the first one is ready.

Now I say, "Don't bother passing it to Lestat and Studdad." Your lag is reduced, because there is less stuff you must do before putting the first frame on the buffer. The bottleneck is eliminated. (No offense to Lestat or Studdad.)

But anyway, I don't know why we are arguing about this. The fact of the matter is that game mode eliminates lag. Does it display one image every 60th of a second, or two identical images? Makes no difference to me.

All I know is this:
  1. The set can do 5:5 if AMP is off
  2. The set has a game mode that eliminates lag
That is enough to make me happy. For all I know, Jazzbass and Metal are in that black box, mucking about with my frames. But what comes out in the end looks good to me.

(With apologies to Lestat, Studdad, Jazzbass, Metal and Datacide....)

-Chris
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post #304 of 12494 Old 05-13-2008, 11:38 AM
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No apologies needed good read, (I feel smarter now)

The scariest words in the English language are:
"Hello, we're from the government, and we're here to help."

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post #305 of 12494 Old 05-13-2008, 02:22 PM
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Yes, no apologies needed. I think we might be talking about slightly different things though.

I was speaking to the input lag...not something similar to the framerate on the PC. I mean, if you drop the framerate on the PC to a very low rate then you'll of course get input lag. But when running 30fps or 60fps...input lag isn't an issue really.

But interesting read on the buffer. I am not convinced it is completely free on the TV to run at 120Hz versus 60Hz...but you've given me something to ponder.

Also, remember unlike a PC monitor which will receive 120Hz signal (well, some will)...the TV will only take 60Hz signal...I am not sure that this isn't some a the lag in this conversion.

But yes, as you said...if you are happy with what the TV does then no need to argue about speculated processes.

I am still greatly on the fence about this TV due to the lag issues and Game mode not having any adjustments available. I am hoping some firmware will solve this (the XBR allows settings in this mode). But enjoy your TV regardless.

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post #306 of 12494 Old 05-13-2008, 03:21 PM
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Originally Posted by axmode View Post

1- You, snooty show off

2- If some of the 650s are mired by mura, then why not the 750s?. After all, they are the same panel, are they not?. They all emanate from the same assembly line, do they not?. I just think that there are less 750s floating around and less finicky owners dickering with the BL and contrast/brightness to enhance the mura. But then again, I could be wrong

lol, I know, I really shouldn't brag about my stupendous sounds system, lol (ooops, I did it again). Actually, it is really nice for me, but would be considered less than adequate for a true audiophile. I agree with #2, which is why I did not consider Mura/Clouding when comparing the two. Now if the 750 actually did have a better PQ, or if we could confirm it had a 16bit processor, and that processor made a difference in PQ (if it is 16bit, it seems the extra power is being used for the other features the 750 has as opposed to better PQ) then I would be all over the 750,,,,,,and maybe, just maybe, consider taping the bezel.

52" Samsung 750, finally satisfaction
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post #307 of 12494 Old 05-13-2008, 03:32 PM
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Originally Posted by dms541 View Post

Forgive my skepticism, but I'm more inclined to believe the block diagram in the service manual than a samsung tech. I know a lot of us have had them give us complete bs and try to sell it as facts.

I think the panel is 10-bit but the processor is 16-bit. If I'm wrong then so is the manual they give to their field techs.

If the panel itself is 10bit not sure it matter since we only have 8bit sources.
However, the panel color engine processing is hopefully at least 10bit as that allows for much less color error and banding than ones that do the color engine processing at 8bits, especially once calibration has been applied and using LUTs and stuff to it. I would hope that any semi-recent, reasonably high-end TV has at least a 10bit color engine.

How many bits the CPU is, I have no clue, that's not related to the above. More bits might make a CPU work faster than one with less, then again some 32bit processors get whipped by 16bit ones, a mix of bits, speed and architecture determines it, what exactly you ask it to do.


BTW, do the 650/750 have a full CMS?
The 71 series definitely doesn't, you can't really move primaries and secondaries all around during calibration and set all the stuff for them individually.
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post #308 of 12494 Old 05-13-2008, 03:45 PM
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Originally Posted by KeanosMagicHat View Post

It has affected three ranges, including the new 6 series and I was wondering whether it was a problem on the US model 750.

It's been called the Hum Bar fault by Samsung UK and is caused by internal Electro Magnetic Interference resulting in scrolling bars which vary in both speed and thickness on different Hz values.

It can only really be seen when the TV is on picture modes other than the factory default Dynamic and at backlight values below 5.

the 71 / 69 series seem to be the only lcd's in existence with these problems. When that tv first came out there was no problems but now it seems like, all newly US made 71's have flickering. Has there been any fix for you guys?
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post #309 of 12494 Old 05-13-2008, 04:13 PM
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Originally Posted by Lestat Phoenix View Post

Third 750, this one has horrible clouding and mura on dark backgrounds (I know its normal but it just sucks) also when I cut lets say a game on the black backround gets pillars on the side. Im just going to keep this one and hope for a firmware update for the pillaring (spelling)

I wouldn't really count on FW to fix the pillaring. How can FW fix a physical process, it would seem at best it could have the TV send brigher shade of black to center of screen but it wouldn't knbow the exact size or extent of your pillaring and then you'd never get true 0 color anywhere, no?!
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post #310 of 12494 Old 05-13-2008, 04:25 PM
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Originally Posted by chinonye View Post

If someone can tell me how to get rid of the constant flickering i get on my PS3 When connected to my LN52A750. I have read the PS3 forum and could not find any solution or as to what is causing it on my tv. What happens is that when i am on the PS3 menu the screen flickers eradically at different times especially when i go between menus. I checked my HDMI cable and they are good quality monster cables so i dont think crappy cables are the issued i never had this problem on my panasonic rp that the LN52A750 replaced. I think it might be the settings that i have..so if someone could tell me what settings i should have on my PS3 help fix this issue. I am using znutts calib. settings if that helps a little.

Is it mostly on certain shades of color or certain pixel or lines in the image?
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post #311 of 12494 Old 05-13-2008, 10:43 PM
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I am upgrading TV's for the first time in 5 years. I can not decide between the Samsung LN46A650, LN46A750, or the Panasonic TH50PZ85U.

Can someone please explain to me why I should go for the Samsung LCD over the Panasonic Plasma?

I will probably utilize the TV split equally between PS3 Blue Ray, HDTV, and PS3 gaming.

I don't have space for the 52" LCD, but I can fit the 50" Plasma. Is the ability to get a bigger screen (50" Plasma over 46" LCD) enough to go with the Plasma??

Please help!! Thanks in advance!!
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post #312 of 12494 Old 05-14-2008, 01:30 AM
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Originally Posted by davez82 View Post

the 71 / 69 series seem to be the only lcd's in existence with these problems. When that tv first came out there was no problems but now it seems like, all newly US made 71's have flickering. Has there been any fix for you guys?

Thank you very much for the reply.

As mentioned it affects three ranges over here which is a signficant number I'm sure you'll agree.

I bought my original TV back in May last year and since then have had 5 sets all of which have had the problem and it still is not fixed.

That's why I'd really like to establish whether it is also present on the 7 series as I'll be pushing for a replacement if it is not.

Incidentally this is a global problem. I have already read reports of the fault in Australia and all across Europe, now I have confirmation from yourself that it has been a problem on previous US models.

Come on series 7 owners, please have a look at my first post on this thread (#15 on the first page) and let's establish whether the fault exists on this model (hopefully not).
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post #313 of 12494 Old 05-14-2008, 02:42 AM
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Originally Posted by KeanosMagicHat View Post

Thank you very much for the reply.

As mentioned it affects three ranges over here which is a signficant number I'm sure you'll agree.

I bought my original TV back in May last year and since then have had 5 sets all of which have had the problem and it still is not fixed.

That's why I'd really like to establish whether it is also present on the 7 series as I'll be pushing for a replacement if it is not.

Incidentally this is a global problem. I have already read reports of the fault in Australia and all across Europe, now I have confirmation from yourself that it has been a problem on previous US models.

Come on series 7 owners, please have a look at my first post on this thread (#15 on the first page) and let's establish whether the fault exists on this model (hopefully not).

Ive never seen this on any 750 I have looked at, or never heard from anyone on the forums of this happening.

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post #314 of 12494 Old 05-14-2008, 02:44 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BigTez View Post

I am upgrading TV's for the first time in 5 years. I can not decide between the Samsung LN46A650, LN46A750, or the Panasonic TH50PZ85U.

Can someone please explain to me why I should go for the Samsung LCD over the Panasonic Plasma?

I will probably utilize the TV split equally between PS3 Blue Ray, HDTV, and PS3 gaming.

I don't have space for the 52" LCD, but I can fit the 50" Plasma. Is the ability to get a bigger screen (50" Plasma over 46" LCD) enough to go with the Plasma??

Please help!! Thanks in advance!!

It all comes down to personal preference, im a big gamer and hd person, i like my screen to pop. Those two options sways me to a LCD. A tad bit better blacks on the plasma but the first two are hugh for me so that is why i went with the sammie. Depending on what your using it for as you stated in your post i would got with the 750 if you can find it for a good price. Just my two cents.

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post #315 of 12494 Old 05-14-2008, 04:40 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BigTez View Post

I am upgrading TV's for the first time in 5 years. I can not decide between the Samsung LN46A650, LN46A750, or the Panasonic TH50PZ85U.

Can someone please explain to me why I should go for the Samsung LCD over the Panasonic Plasma?

I will probably utilize the TV split equally between PS3 Blue Ray, HDTV, and PS3 gaming.

I don't have space for the 52" LCD, but I can fit the 50" Plasma. Is the ability to get a bigger screen (50" Plasma over 46" LCD) enough to go with the Plasma??

Please help!! Thanks in advance!!

If you get the A750, you are essentially paying about $300 more for better sound, different bezel design, and a media streamer that can play videos from usb stick or through network. If that sounds worth it for you, then i'd go for the A750 over the A650.

As for the Panny plasma, I can't argue for much against it since it is cheaper than either of these sets and its a 50 incher. I've seen one at BestBuy and the blacks are really great. Probably the best blacks in the store (they didn't have the Pioneer Kuros there). However, if you'll be using a PC with it a lot, i would advise against the plasma because of potential burnin problems.

Another thing to consider is your viewing conditions. If you like to watch stuff during the day a lot or are someone that leaves the lights on when they watch, then the plasma isn't going be able to pop out as much compared to the samsung lcd. Plasma excels best in low light conditions. That being said, there is no such thing as a perfect LCD set, as all suffer from some form of clouding/mura/uneven backlight to some degree. Plasmas don't have these kinds of problems. Perhaps for overly-OCD/nitpicky people, LCD sets are not for them.

Just a few things to keep in mind, hope i didnt make your buying decision any harder...
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post #316 of 12494 Old 05-14-2008, 07:10 AM
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Originally Posted by MonkeyGoD View Post

As for the Panny plasma, I can't argue for much against it since it is cheaper than either of these sets and its a 50 incher. I've seen one at BestBuy and the blacks are really great. Probably the best blacks in the store (they didn't have the Pioneer Kuros there). However, if you'll be using a PC with it a lot, i would advise against the plasma because of potential burnin problems.

They have both side by side at my local BB, the blacks were equal imo. Samsung made a market improvement in black levels for the 650-750.
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post #317 of 12494 Old 05-14-2008, 08:45 AM
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I'm torn between the 650 and the 750. I already have a PS3 so the media streaming isn't really something I need ATM. I do not own a home theatre surround sound setup (yet) but I imagine I will purchase something in the next 6 months. Is the sound quality of the 750 worth the extra $175? Is it THAT much better?
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post #318 of 12494 Old 05-14-2008, 08:59 AM
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Originally Posted by EpsilonExordium View Post

I'm torn between the 650 and the 750. I already have a PS3 so the media streaming isn't really something I need ATM. I do not own a home theatre surround sound setup (yet) but I imagine I will purchase something in the next 6 months. Is the sound quality of the 750 worth the extra $175? Is it THAT much better?

Cant really say its better in a performance standpoint but looks IMO hands down better.

The scariest words in the English language are:
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post #319 of 12494 Old 05-14-2008, 09:10 AM
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Originally Posted by Lestat Phoenix View Post

Cant really say its better in a performance standpoint but looks IMO hands down better.

I agree. Cant wait to get mine in a few weeks. Samsung finnaly saw the light it seems, and switched me from a 650 to a 750 as my replacement for my 71. I am so excited to get my new tv. should take about 2-3 weeks. I explained to them that the specifications aside, the 650 does not match the feature set of the 71and the 750 is the correct replacement for the 71 and the 650 should replace th 69. it was alot of hoops, but worth the aggrivation- I hope. LOL
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post #320 of 12494 Old 05-14-2008, 09:13 AM
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Originally Posted by audiolover718 View Post

I agree. Cant wait to get mine in a few weeks. Samsung finnaly saw the light it seems, and switched me from a 650 to a 750 as my replacement for my 71. I am so excited to get my new tv. should take about 2-3 weeks. I explained to them that the specifications aside, the 650 does not match the feature set of the 71and the 750 is the correct replacement for the 71 and the 650 should replace th 69. it was alot of hoops, but worth the aggrivation- I hope. LOL

Congrats, you will love it. Just try not to nick pick it to death like I do and you should be a happy camper!

The scariest words in the English language are:
"Hello, we're from the government, and we're here to help."

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post #321 of 12494 Old 05-14-2008, 12:01 PM
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Originally Posted by Lestat Phoenix View Post

Ive never seen this on any 750 I have looked at, or never heard from anyone on the forums of this happening.

Good stuff. Any other owners care to weigh in on this one please (post #15 on the first page) the more reports the better - thank you.

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Originally Posted by audiolover718 View Post

Samsung finnaly saw the light it seems, and switched me from a 650 to a 750 as my replacement for my 71.

Well done. That is exactly what I will be looking to do if they haven't fixed the faults on the UK equivalent of the 71 (the F86) by the time the 750 is released here.
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post #322 of 12494 Old 05-14-2008, 12:32 PM
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Originally Posted by audiolover718 View Post

I agree. Cant wait to get mine in a few weeks. Samsung finnaly saw the light it seems, and switched me from a 650 to a 750 as my replacement for my 71. I am so excited to get my new tv. should take about 2-3 weeks. I explained to them that the specifications aside, the 650 does not match the feature set of the 71and the 750 is the correct replacement for the 71 and the 650 should replace th 69. it was alot of hoops, but worth the aggrivation- I hope. LOL

I got my 71 replacement approved for a 750 a couple of days ago, after some back and forth about the 650 or 750 being the replacement of course, but they ended up giving me the 750. Can't wait to get it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by EpsilonExordium View Post

I'm torn between the 650 and the 750. I already have a PS3 so the media streaming isn't really something I need ATM. I do not own a home theatre surround sound setup (yet) but I imagine I will purchase something in the next 6 months. Is the sound quality of the 750 worth the extra $175? Is it THAT much better?

I heard both at best buy, the only difference is a bit better bass because of the added woofer, it's nothing to brag about. Also picture wise they should be the exact same. It would come down to the added network features and the styling, and it's worth the extra $175 for the 750's looks imo.
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post #323 of 12494 Old 05-14-2008, 12:47 PM
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I just received this set yesterday as a replacement for my 71F that was stuttering like crazy and at first I was pleased with this tv, PQ is good and they seemed to have greatly improved stutter issues if not completely resolved them.

After watching for a while today I began to notice that this set has HORRIBLE lag, it makes watching anything like watching some bad old Asian kung fu flick, the voices totally dont match the lips and it's VERY annoying and dont think I can deal with this, what is wrong with Samsung? I tried using game mode etc and none of the picture opens seem to fix the issue, has anyone else noticed this?

Input lag test results on the 52A750

"Maybe the input lag on this set matches the lag in your head therefore you don't perceive it".
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post #324 of 12494 Old 05-14-2008, 12:50 PM
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Originally Posted by aquastorm View Post

I just received this set yesterday as a replacement for my 71F that was stuttering like crazy and at first I was pleased with this tv, PQ is good and they seemed to have greatly improved stutter issues if not completely resolved them.

After watching for a while today I began to notice that this set has HORRIBLE lag, it makes watching anything like watching some bad old Asian kung fu flick, the voices totally dont match the lips and it's VERY annoying and dont think I can deal with this, what is wrong with Samsung? I tried using game mode etc and none of the picture opens seem to fix the issue, has anyone else noticed this?

You know you should provide a little more info about your setup instead of like horrible lag. Are you using cable or satellite and how do you connect it to your tv? Do you get that horrible lag with blu-ray or dvd?

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post #325 of 12494 Old 05-14-2008, 12:57 PM
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First of all I must state the reason why I didnt list my other equipment and or setup is because I have been using this same equipment/setup with 2 other tv's one of which being the 71F I just had switched out and have never had this problem before so it is the TV. To appease you though I am using a Tivo HD with TWC in which the audio is output via optical cable to my Onkyo 7.1 system. I have tried running the audio through the HDMI to the set and then out of the set with optical to the Onkyo but that did not improve things either.

Input lag test results on the 52A750

"Maybe the input lag on this set matches the lag in your head therefore you don't perceive it".
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post #326 of 12494 Old 05-14-2008, 01:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aquastorm View Post

After watching for a while today I began to notice that this set has HORRIBLE lag, it makes watching anything like watching some bad old Asian kung fu flick, the voices totally dont match the lips and it's VERY annoying and dont think I can deal with this, what is wrong with Samsung? I tried using game mode etc and none of the picture opens seem to fix the issue, has anyone else noticed this?

Okay, perhaps this doesn't need to be said.... but you do realize that Asian kung fu flicks ALWAYS have lip synch problems, right?

Seriously though, I haven't heard this complaint about the 750 from anyone else. Did you connect your source to the TV and then listen to the audio through the TV? I'd start there to make sure that your receiver isn't introducing lag...
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post #327 of 12494 Old 05-14-2008, 01:09 PM
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Originally Posted by thorphin View Post

Okay, perhaps this doesn't need to be said.... but you do realize that Asian kung fu flicks ALWAYS have lip synch problems, right?

Seriously though, I haven't heard this complaint about the 750 from anyone else. Did you connect your source to the TV and then listen to the audio through the TV? I'd start there to make sure that your receiver isn't introducing lag...

The audio is slightly ahead of the onscreen so it is not my receiver lagging, it is that which is displayed that is lagging, and I wasnt literally watching a kung fu flick was just stating that is what it is like... lol

Input lag test results on the 52A750

"Maybe the input lag on this set matches the lag in your head therefore you don't perceive it".
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post #328 of 12494 Old 05-14-2008, 01:24 PM
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Help I have a smug on my TV screen I think my wife rub her arm on by mistake how do I clean this off ?
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post #329 of 12494 Old 05-14-2008, 01:26 PM
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Help I have a smug on my TV screen I think my wife rub her arm on by mistake how do I clean this off ?

Use the cloth that comes with the tv and rub the screen gently.

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post #330 of 12494 Old 05-14-2008, 01:29 PM
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No water on the cloth? should I rub it in a circular motion?
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Reply LCD Flat Panel Displays

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