Sony W4100 series thread - Page 13 - AVS Forum
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post #361 of 2871 Old 05-29-2008, 04:19 PM
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I was ready to pull the trigger a couple of times on the 52XBR4 and I didn't . Now, I am glad I didn't. The 52W4100 looks promising. I am not 100 % sure what are the improvements from the previous except of course, the 120 Mhz , I am not clear about 8 bit , 10 bit -if that is really a big difference and the V.X color but I realize that the floating glass of the XBR will look dated after a few years, and new generations TV's(W's models) , I assume are new and improved and given the choice between last year (XBR) models or this year, is a no brainer. Now, how about the XBR8, I figured because of the backlight, the price will be at least for me, above my budget.

I reads the concerns on the W's some said the W4100 screen was glossy for a LCD, the Logo was annoying , something about a hole, I don't see it on the bezel , so the bottom line, is this the TV?.

I want Bang for Bucks. Father day sales should be appearing soon. Is this the time? I would wait for the Z models but they don't have one in 52's How many are in the same boat?
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post #362 of 2871 Old 05-29-2008, 04:25 PM
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Originally Posted by bsather View Post

Thanks much. I really considered the Z, but it wasn't available when I had to choose a set. Also, it was hard to go down in size. Blu-ray & HD-DVD look absolutely glorious on this set. I had that blown away effect from HD that I originally had with the SXRD over 2 years ago. Some stuff really looks 3D. I watched National Treasure 2 on Blu-ray and I was 110% sold on this set. 8 bit or 10 bit or any bit...I'm happy, the wife's happy. Now I need to stay away from here, so I don't read anything bad..lol.

I know, I've been joking about that this site makes people crazy, I think Sony makes great tv's across the board the colors on yours look great the only flashlight I've seen in my life is in the closet and the only cloud I've seen is in the sky. I have your tv picture as my background since it looks so nice. I think Sony is awesome. I'd have gotten the 52W but I a 52 is too big for where I am placing it.
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post #363 of 2871 Old 05-29-2008, 04:31 PM
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can someone try out the game rockband with cinemotion on and see if there is stutter? thanks
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post #364 of 2871 Old 05-29-2008, 04:36 PM
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Originally Posted by randyartz View Post

Which best buy did you get it at?

I have been waiting for them to come in stock!!!

I was returning a 52W3000 within the 30 day window. I've been through several of them and they all had too much green push. The 52W4100 doesn't have this problem at all. It looks great.

I didn't see the 52W4100 on the wall and asked when they might get it in. The salesman tried to look it up in the computer, didn't find it the first time. Looked somewhere else and found that he could order it and have it for pickup in 4 days. So I went ahead and ordered it, picked it up on Sunday.
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post #365 of 2871 Old 05-29-2008, 04:42 PM
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Originally Posted by stingray_on View Post

I was ready to pull the trigger a couple of times on the 52XBR4 and I didn't . Now, I am glad I didn't. The 52W4100 looks promising. I am not 100 % sure what are the improvements from the previous except of course, the 120 Mhz , I am not clear about 8 bit , 10 bit -if that is really a big difference and the V.X color but I realize that the floating glass of the XBR will look dated after a few years, and new generations TV's(W's models) , I assume are new and improved and given the choice between last year (XBR) models or this year, is a no brainer. Now, how about the XBR8, I figured because of the backlight, the price will be at least for me, above my budget.

I reads the concerns on the W's some said the W4100 screen was glossy for a LCD, the Logo was annoying , something about a hole, I don't see it on the bezel , so the bottom line, is this the TV?.

I want Bang for Bucks. Father day sales should be appearing soon. Is this the time? I would wait for the Z models but they don't have one in 52's How many are in the same boat?

The screen is matte finish, the Logo can be turned off in configuration, and the 'hole' isn't noticeable unless you put the set in front of a light background.

I couldn't live with a glossy screen in the well lit room that I have it in.

I would have waited for the Z also if it was going to be available in 52". The 46" would have been too small for the room.
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post #366 of 2871 Old 05-29-2008, 05:16 PM
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Originally Posted by JDMoose View Post

I decided to contact Sony on the differences and this is how the chat sesion went. I also found the 4150 on seven other web sites. It sounds like even Sony doesn't know what they have out there.
**********************************************************

Dave: I have a question about the new line of Sony TV's that I am interested in purchasing. What is the difference between the KDL 4100 and KDL 4150 series?

: Where did you see the 4150 series television?

Dave: They are advertised in a Crutchfield catalog that I just received in the mail.

: I see. It sounds like a model that one of our retailers requested to be specially made for them. The only models we carry here and have information on are the 4100 series.

Dave: They carry the 4100 and the 4150 series for the same price. They advertise the 4150 with an 18 month warranty.

Dave: They are both the same price

: We offer the XBR4 and the XBR5 where the only difference between those two televisions is the 18 month warranty and a piano black bezel. However, because the XBR5 has both of those added features, it costs quite a bit more.
: We would not have any information on the 4150 as it is not a model we offer here.

Now I don't know what to think..


here's a post I had in the V4100 thread that broke down the differences between V4100 and V4150...

highighted comparison based on sony's own specs only differences I found were:

4150:
lists game mode as "yes"
4100
lists game mode as "text"
4150 does not have "edit channel labels" function
4100 does
4100 lists power management as "yes - for PC input only)
4150 lists no power management function
4100 lists compatible signals as: "720p"
4150 lists same as "720/60P"
all other signal compatibility is the same

cosmetically it appears like the 4150 has a full black bezel all the way around and the 4100 has a silver coated bezel at the bottom only...
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post #367 of 2871 Old 05-29-2008, 05:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JDMoose View Post

I decided to contact Sony on the differences and this is how the chat sesion went. I also found the 4150 on seven other web sites. It sounds like even Sony doesn't know what they have out there.
**********************************************************

Dave: I have a question about the new line of Sony TV's that I am interested in purchasing. What is the difference between the KDL 4100 and KDL 4150 series?

: Where did you see the 4150 series television?

Dave: They are advertised in a Crutchfield catalog that I just received in the mail.

: I see. It sounds like a model that one of our retailers requested to be specially made for them. The only models we carry here and have information on are the 4100 series.

Dave: They carry the 4100 and the 4150 series for the same price. They advertise the 4150 with an 18 month warranty.

Dave: They are both the same price

: We offer the XBR4 and the XBR5 where the only difference between those two televisions is the 18 month warranty and a piano black bezel. However, because the XBR5 has both of those added features, it costs quite a bit more.
: We would not have any information on the 4150 as it is not a model we offer here.

Now I don't know what to think..


and, of course, the 18 month warranty for the 4150 and 12 month for the 4100. But when we bought the V4100 this past weekend the sony style store manager said we have 18 months on the 40" V4100 (we bought the 5 yr ex warranty so it's not an issue for my dad...
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post #368 of 2871 Old 05-29-2008, 05:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by davez82 View Post

can someone try out the game rockband with cinemotion on and see if there is stutter? thanks

There shouldn't be a reason to do this because you should play games in game mode and game mode disables cinemotion.

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post #369 of 2871 Old 05-29-2008, 06:42 PM
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Patriot BD




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Red Dawn DVD
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post #370 of 2871 Old 05-29-2008, 07:03 PM
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nice pics billiam.

could you get a pic of it displaying a static black screen and one at an angle?
like this:

thanks a million
LL
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post #371 of 2871 Old 05-29-2008, 08:49 PM
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* BREAKING NEWS * - According to C|Net's Crave, on the schedule according to David Katzmaier, it seems like they will be reviewing the 46" W4100 effective next week. Can't wait to see what his impression is... Will he think it's the A650 killer? Stay tuned for the latest details.

http://crave.cnet.com/8301-1_105-9951271-1.html

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post #372 of 2871 Old 05-29-2008, 09:23 PM
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UPDATE: I went to see the W4100 at CC tonight, I have to say I did not like it. The grey band on the bottom border and the noticeable hole in the middle of the border, will bother me later on. Also, side by side the 52XBR4 and 4100, In my opinion, the XBR looked way better. Just when I thought i was ready, I am back to square one. The disappointing aspect of my CC adventure is that at least for now, the XBR is at maximum price at CC, even though new TV's have come out and the XBR is last year model.
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post #373 of 2871 Old 05-29-2008, 09:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bigdog657 View Post

I just picked up a 52W4100 on Sunday from BB with 12% coupon.

I noticed stuttering last night while watching a blu-ray disc with a PS3. Turned off motionflow and still had stuttering. With motionflow off, I changed cinemotion from auto1 to auto2 and still had stuttering. Changed cinemotion to off and stuttering went away. Turned motionflow back on leaving cinemotion off and no stuttering.

So it seems the stuttering is related to the cinemotion function, not motionflow.

PS: I believe the PS3 is doing the 3:2 pulldown that cinemotion is attempting to do so turning off cinemotion shouldn't be a big issue.

I originally bought the 46XBR4 for our bedroom, but ended up returning it (wife size complaints in BR?!, shesh) for the 40W4100. I like the overall picture, but I've also noticed this periodic shimmy in the image. When the DirecTV screen saver comes on, it's very noticeable, and annoying. It's almost as if everything becomes pixelated and blurred for a second, then returns to normal.

TV is only 5 days old and I haven't had a chance to mess with any settings outside of changing it off of Vivid.

DirecTV also did a receiver upgrade that placed adds in their guide (yuck). Not sure if it was the receiver software upgrade or the TV.

Thoughts?
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post #374 of 2871 Old 05-29-2008, 09:45 PM
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i'd wait for cnet's review to really get a good idea how the w4100 stacks up against the likes of the xbr4 and 650.
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post #375 of 2871 Old 05-29-2008, 09:57 PM
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post #376 of 2871 Old 05-29-2008, 10:23 PM
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nice find although it isn't exactly a w4100. but it is a good indicator of how the W4100 would turn out. i'm gonna go out on a limb here and predict that the W4100 will be rated higher than the xbr4 and even challenge the 650 for cnet's editor's choice award! this is based on what i observed of the v4100 so far, so i have a hunch the w4100 will be much better.
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post #377 of 2871 Old 05-29-2008, 10:51 PM
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Originally Posted by diabolyte View Post

nice find although it isn't exactly a w4100. but it is a good indicator of how the W4100 would turn out. i'm gonna go out on a limb here and predict that the W4100 will be rated higher than the xbr4 and even challenge the 650 for cnet's editor's choice award! this is based on what i observed of the v4100 so far, so i have a hunch the w4100 will be much better.

when I did a side-by-side of the xbr4 (displaying a Blu-Ray DVD source) and a w4100 (displaying a 1080I broadcast source) I still liked the XBR better, but I was surprised how crisp and consistent the w4100 image was. I have no idea how either TV's were set up, so it's obviously not a particularly even comparison, but based on my recent purchase for my dad of a 40" V4100, I would say the w4100 should be right up there with the best LCDs on the market, falling just below the A750 and xbr 4/5 for top honors (of commercially available LCDs - I've seen some projected 4K material that is just astounding for 2D imager) I was also surprised how much I like the cinemotion on the v4100 - set up the TV with the movie "Scoop" on HBO and the cinemotion did not video-ize the image as I had assumed - the v4100 does not have 120hz motion flow so can't comment on how that aspect.
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post #378 of 2871 Old 05-29-2008, 10:55 PM
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ps - this all by way of saying I am dangerously close to "finally" (according to my loved ones) pulling the trigger on the 52" W4100. I actually like the A750 image a little better (XBR 6 series will be too pricey for me) but the reflective quality of the A750 screen and bezel and the TOC are just too big of a speed hump to pedal over...if the z came out in a 52" I'd be all over that...
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post #379 of 2871 Old 05-30-2008, 12:39 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vipergts2207 View Post

There shouldn't be a reason to do this because you should play games in game mode and game mode disables cinemotion.

games ,like movies, shouldn't have to comprimise picture quality in order to work correctly, they deserve the same attention as any other hd source and that includes motion enhancement. Samsung does not stutter while playing rockband with frame interpolation on, the old sony's do which is why I want to know if the new sony's have corrected this. I know the 32xbr6 does stutter with cinemotion on. And if your wondering why turn on cinemotion for games is a good question, because motionflow doesnt work without cinemotion and motionflow does make gaming more fluid, lag is another issue that i'm not trying to argue here, im just interested in gaming with motionflow on.

if anyone has rockband can you try turning on the "soap opera effect" and see if the game stutters while playing a few songs? thanks!
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post #380 of 2871 Old 05-30-2008, 07:45 AM
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Originally Posted by davez82 View Post

if anyone has rockband can you try turning on the "soap opera effect" and see if the game stutters while playing a few songs? thanks!

Sorry that I can't help, but I think it's more about latency (the time between pushing a button and it showing up on the screen) rather than stutter. Since frame interpolation requires that you know the next frame ahead of time, there is inherently some delay introduced since the TV needs to have two real frames available before it can create the interpolated frames. If you're using a 60Hz signal, that'd be a delay of at least 2 ms (= 1/60), but probably more like 4-5 ms if you count the time it takes to generate frame 1.5 once you've got frame 1 and frame 2 buffered.

If you're playing a game like Guitar Hero, this delay would mean that you'd need to do notes just a bit earlier than you normally would, since the screen is showing stuff that has been delayed since being outputted by the game system. At least that's the idea, but no idea if <10ms of delay is actually noticeable when playing a game, or if that's even the amount of delay that you'd get in practice. Additional processing would only give you additional latency.
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post #381 of 2871 Old 05-30-2008, 08:41 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by davez82 View Post

games ,like movies, shouldn't have to comprimise picture quality in order to work correctly, they deserve the same attention as any other hd source and that includes motion enhancement. Samsung does not stutter while playing rockband with frame interpolation on, the old sony's do which is why I want to know if the new sony's have corrected this. I know the 32xbr6 does stutter with cinemotion on. And if your wondering why turn on cinemotion for games is a good question, because motionflow doesnt work without cinemotion and motionflow does make gaming more fluid, lag is another issue that i'm not trying to argue here, im just interested in gaming with motionflow on.

if anyone has rockband can you try turning on the "soap opera effect" and see if the game stutters while playing a few songs? thanks!

Well unfortunately games and movies are two different beasts. Processing during movies isn't a big deal, but games require user input. My PS3 outputs the signal to the tv and expects me to see it right when its output. If your tv displays the screen late then it will negatively affect your gaming. There is absolutely no need for cinemotion during gaming because the game is naturally going at 30 or 60fps. Cinemotion is useful for movies because they're naturally at 24fps which doesn't go evenly into 60Hz. Motionflow, regardless of whether it stutters will cause lag which is gaming's worst enemy. There is a reason the gaming mode turns off cinemotion and motionflow. Anyway why do the notes going down the fretboard need to be uber smooth? Eliminating lag is much more important than the minimal amount of extra smoothness you might get from motionflow. Especially in a game like rock band. I hate playing rock band with lag.

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post #382 of 2871 Old 05-30-2008, 08:52 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by davez82 View Post

because motionflow doesnt work without cinemotion

where did you hear this? iirc cinemotion is a feature that does 3:2 inverse pulldown and motionflow is the one that does frame interpolation. I don't see how one is dependent on the other to work.
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post #383 of 2871 Old 05-30-2008, 11:57 AM
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Shot from an angle:


A sequence of shots of a mostly black screen. The first two is most representative of what my eyes sees, followed by higher exposures. You can see that the text blur on the screen due to increasing over exposure.











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post #384 of 2871 Old 05-30-2008, 12:02 PM
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Hey billiam and/or BSather, how do you find the tv's sound? Do you think it needs a system with it or is it great already?
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post #385 of 2871 Old 05-30-2008, 12:38 PM
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thanks for the pics Billiam really appreciate it. i must say those blacks look impressive. was that how it looked in a completely dark room? i viewed the second pic on my 650 and it looked exactly like the real shutoff screen on my ps3 that was used to view it! ! you got an awesome camera, the little red controller light was spot on too, the color was perfect.
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post #386 of 2871 Old 05-30-2008, 01:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by diabolyte View Post

where did you hear this? iirc cinemotion is a feature that does 3:2 inverse pulldown and motionflow is the one that does frame interpolation. I don't see how one is dependent on the other to work.

i didn't hear it. If you've ever used a xbr4 you would know that's how it works. With cinemotion off motionflow is pretty much non existent and not working. I dont know about the new models, if anyone can test this out that would be great.
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post #387 of 2871 Old 05-30-2008, 02:30 PM
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How exactly would you compare the black levels of the W4100 vs. the A650/750? Did anyone see these side-by-side with each other on a store wall? I don't think that any of the stores I went into had these exactly side-by-side, so it was too tough to tell...

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post #388 of 2871 Old 05-30-2008, 02:35 PM
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So I just went ahead and pulled the trigger on the 52W4100 and it's being delivered on Sunday so needless to say that I CAN'T wait! But before I got here I just wanted to get everyone's opinions on what settings need to be adjusted for optimal viewing in a room where I will be sitting about 8 feet away from the set with a lot of ambient light. Thanks in advance!
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post #389 of 2871 Old 05-30-2008, 02:38 PM
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I haven't seen the blacks on the W4100 yet, but we'll know for sure come Monday when cnet reviews it. but I know V4100's blacks are almost as deep as the 650 since I used the xbr4 as the in-between measure; for me the 650 definitely destroys the xbr4 with its black levels and the V4100 also beats the xbr4 but the difference wasn't as drastic as seen on the 650. also, it's pretty tough to gauge how black levels when the tvs are in a store with bright lighting. the best way to compare the blacks is by watching them in a completely dark room.
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post #390 of 2871 Old 05-30-2008, 02:39 PM
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Check amazon for the 52W4100 cracking price!
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