Official LNxxA750 Calibration/Settings Thread - Page 10 - AVS Forum
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post #271 of 1433 Old 06-29-2008, 11:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kjgarrison View Post

If I understand Tom Huffman's post on this, it is with a gamma of 2.2 - 2.5, with 2.2 being darker.

2.2 blacker black
2.5 better shadow detail

He says for a desired gamma of 2.2 set 10% gray window Y value at 0.0063 * 100% gray window Y value using the brightness.

I think different gamma settings just shift this, and if you then adjust brightness to get the 0.0063, you end up with the same gamma curve and the same calibrated measurements, but produced with different brightness (and gamma) settings.

I think these different gamma settings are like so many other adjustments that are available: Something you can adjust to make you subjectively like the picture better. But just like dynamic contrast, etc, these changes in gamma take the calibration away from specifications. (Unless, that is, you then re-do brightness to put it right back where it was.)

What I don't know and have not tested is whether different gamma settings might compensate for clipping in some way, and, after adjustment of brightness give an overall flatter gamma curve but with the same CR.


gamma 2.5 would have less shadow detail and generally look darker, tends to give a bit more highlight retention though.

gamma 1.8 in comparison would not drop the very dark colors down so fast and would give more shadow detail but might cut the very brights down and give less highlight separation

in some cases it works roughly like:

luminance = contrast * (input^gamma) + brightness

note that on these particular samsungs gamma +1,2,3 makes gamma lower not higher, it might drop it from say 2.3 to 2.2 to 2.1 to 2.0 and adding gamma on the - side would make it say 2.4 and 2.5.
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post #272 of 1433 Old 06-30-2008, 08:15 AM
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Just got the eye-one in the mail, stay tuned, lol
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post #273 of 1433 Old 06-30-2008, 08:52 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zerog6 View Post

Just got the eye-one in the mail, stay tuned, lol

Can't wait to hear the results. Maybe you could play with a UM calibration for those that want to test the settings out and too afraid to go into the SM.

And thanks for all the great info you all have been providing. I love to try all these settings out, even knowing they won't be the same for every set they always look better than my original settings, and with a little tweaking they're damn near perfect to the naked eye.
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post #274 of 1433 Old 06-30-2008, 11:08 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Airik76 View Post

Can't wait to hear the results. Maybe you could play with a UM calibration for those that want to test the settings out and too afraid to go into the SM.

I'd like to second this. If you could do a setup in the UM first before you go nuts and get perfect in the SM, it will give some of us a little more to play with.



Either way I'm looking forwards to what you find out.
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post #275 of 1433 Old 06-30-2008, 12:59 PM
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A quick observation:

I have no idea how people have been able to calibrate these to get contrast ratios up to 3,500 or higher while still being able to get a correct gamma curve.

That's all I've been trying to do for the past few hours, and it's not possible for me. The best i've been able to do while maintaining a good gamma curve is around a 2,000 contrast ratio.

If anyone has a tip or knows how I can do so to try it out then post it up, but I don't see how.
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post #276 of 1433 Old 06-30-2008, 01:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zerog6 View Post

A quick observation:

I have no idea how people have been able to calibrate these to get contrast ratios up to 3,500 or higher while still being able to get a correct gamma curve.

That's all I've been trying to do for the past few hours, and it's not possible for me. The best i've been able to do while maintaining a good gamma curve is around a 2,000 contrast ratio.

If anyone has a tip or knows how I can do so to try it out then post it up, but I don't see how.

I agree. The best I get is 1800-2000 range for the CR. I haven't tried other "Gamma" settings, though. That is my next area of exploration.
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post #277 of 1433 Old 06-30-2008, 01:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zerog6 View Post

A quick observation:

I have no idea how people have been able to calibrate these to get contrast ratios up to 3,500 or higher while still being able to get a correct gamma curve.

That's all I've been trying to do for the past few hours, and it's not possible for me. The best i've been able to do while maintaining a good gamma curve is around a 2,000 contrast ratio.

If anyone has a tip or knows how I can do so to try it out then post it up, but I don't see how.

Mine landed about 1950 after umr calibrated it.

Back off man, I'm a scientist.
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post #278 of 1433 Old 06-30-2008, 03:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zerog6 View Post

A quick observation:

I have no idea how people have been able to calibrate these to get contrast ratios up to 3,500 or higher while still being able to get a correct gamma curve.

That's all I've been trying to do for the past few hours, and it's not possible for me. The best i've been able to do while maintaining a good gamma curve is around a 2,000 contrast ratio.

If anyone has a tip or knows how I can do so to try it out then post it up, but I don't see how.

if you look at one of the calibrations at 3600:1 it is a bit non-standard no all at gamma 2.2 (also it is suspected that some of these might have had dynamic contrast turned on).

hmm, if it is 2000:1 still better than 71 series 1650-1700:1 but maybe not all that noticeable?
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post #279 of 1433 Old 06-30-2008, 03:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by skibum5000 View Post

if you look at one of the calibrations at 3600:1 it is a bit non-standard no all at gamma 2.2 (also it is suspected that some of these might have had dynamic contrast turned on).

hmm, if it is 2000:1 still better than 71 series 1650-1700:1 but maybe not all that noticeable?

Dynamic contrast shoots CR up to more like 6500

And the difference between 750 and 71 is noticeable.
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post #280 of 1433 Old 06-30-2008, 03:57 PM
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Alright here's my first run: I attached the HCFR file

Contrast Ratio 2323:1
Average Gamma: 2.27

I highly doubt the contrast ratio and gamma are going to get any better. As had always been suspected, the gamma problems I was having were all due to the spyder-2 not being able to calculate it well enough, especially under 30 IRE. The same goes for the contrast ratio. Overall it seems to be pretty darn good. I also don't think the grayscale will get any better. So as far as I can see, the only thing I still have to work on is the color space just a bit more. Let me know what you guys think

For you guys asking to put up user menu settings also. I can't do it because I forgot to record what the default SM settings were in order to accurately do it. If someone can get into their SM and let me know what the "WB Movie" gains and offsets are set to by default for the 1007 FW, then i'll be happy to do user level settings.

 

i1-First.zip 4.78125k . file
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post #281 of 1433 Old 06-30-2008, 05:10 PM
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I used zerog's calibration settings and some others posted on here. The thing I find is the blacks are too deep and don't have enough detail. Should I set the HDMI black level back to normal or keep it on low? Also if anyone needs a fix on the halo issue I have a great answer that doesn't involve tape, just message me if interested.
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post #282 of 1433 Old 06-30-2008, 05:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ev99 View Post

Also if anyone needs a fix on the halo issue I have a great answer that doesn't involve tape, just message me if interested.

sure i'd like to hear it


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post #283 of 1433 Old 06-30-2008, 06:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ev99 View Post

I used zerog's calibration settings and some others posted on here. The thing I find is the blacks are too deep and don't have enough detail. Should I set the HDMI black level back to normal or keep it on low? Also if anyone needs a fix on the halo issue I have a great answer that doesn't involve tape, just message me if interested.

No, HDMI black level needs to be set a certain way, and untouched. If the Black's are too deep and get crushed, then you just need to raise the brightness a bit.
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post #284 of 1433 Old 06-30-2008, 07:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kjgarrison View Post

Dynamic contrast shoots CR up to more like 6500

And the difference between 750 and 71 is noticeable.

Gotta love that dynamic Contrast, lol. I know it isn't "technically" right, but I can't live without it.

52" Samsung 750, finally satisfaction
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post #285 of 1433 Old 06-30-2008, 07:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zerog6 View Post

Alright here's my first run: I attached the HCFR file

Contrast Ratio 2323:1
Average Gamma: 2.27

I highly doubt the contrast ratio and gamma are going to get any better. As had always been suspected, the gamma problems I was having were all due to the spyder-2 not being able to calculate it well enough, especially under 30 IRE. The same goes for the contrast ratio. Overall it seems to be pretty darn good. I also don't think the grayscale will get any better. So as far as I can see, the only thing I still have to work on is the color space just a bit more. Let me know what you guys think

For you guys asking to put up user menu settings also. I can't do it because I forgot to record what the default SM settings were in order to accurately do it. If someone can get into their SM and let me know what the "WB Movie" gains and offsets are set to by default for the 1007 FW, then i'll be happy to do user level settings.

Zerog6,

Awesome work you, KJGarrison and others are doing here! I just got my replacement A750 and I'm loving it more than the former 4671F. I've played around with some settings from this thread and yours seem to come closest to what I like on this newer set. Would you mind clarifying your settings a bit more within the comments section of your recent ColorHCFR file (i1-First.zip)? I can tweak my TV a bit from there, if I have to.

I have the LN46A750 with 1007.0 firmware.

Thanks
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post #286 of 1433 Old 06-30-2008, 08:35 PM
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OK for the halo effect I purchased a 1/2 inch 10 foot run of vinyl shiny tubing from Home Depot (comes in a coil). What I did was cut evenly straight along it this way I can just thread it over the edge of the bezel. No light is seen now at all along the top. I haven't done the bottom yet. I will try and post pics as soon as I can. It looks like a bit of a bumper on the the top.
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post #287 of 1433 Old 06-30-2008, 08:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jwortiz View Post

Zerog6,

Awesome work you, KJGarrison and others are doing here! I just got my replacement A750 and I'm loving it more than the former 4671F. I've played around with some settings from this thread and yours seem to come closest to what I like on this newer set. Would you mind clarifying your settings a bit more within the comments section of your recent ColorHCFR file (i1-First.zip)? I can tweak my TV a bit from there, if I have to.

I have the LN46A750 with 1007.0 firmware.

Thanks

I edited the file above, so just download the same one again.
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post #288 of 1433 Old 06-30-2008, 08:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by studdad View Post

Gotta love that dynamic Contrast, lol. I know it isn't "technically" right, but I can't live without it.

How's it going studdad?
Im interested in trying out your settings with dynamic contrast. Mind sharing them
?
Thanks.
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post #289 of 1433 Old 06-30-2008, 09:04 PM
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Yes I also would like to know some good settings for dynamic. Also, Is there any good reason to put the backlight over 5? Just wondering. Thanks!
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post #290 of 1433 Old 06-30-2008, 09:19 PM
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Hey zero. I have a question.
What color tone did you choose in the sm?
Should be the same as the um right?
If so, which did you choose?
Thanks.
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post #291 of 1433 Old 06-30-2008, 09:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by geezuz183 View Post

Hey zero. I have a question.
What color tone did you choose in the sm?
Should be the same as the um right?
If so, which did you choose?
Thanks.

Oh damn, thanks for pointing that out. I forgot to write it in.

Warm-1
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post #292 of 1433 Old 06-30-2008, 09:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zerog6 View Post

No, HDMI black level needs to be set a certain way, and untouched. If the Black's are too deep and get crushed, then you just need to raise the brightness a bit.

Just wondering If you have it set to "low" or "normal".
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post #293 of 1433 Old 06-30-2008, 09:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zerog6 View Post

Oh damn, thanks for pointing that out. I forgot to write it in.

Warm-1

No problem man.
Glad I can help.
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post #294 of 1433 Old 06-30-2008, 09:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by geezuz183 View Post

Just wondering If you have it set to "low" or "normal".

It doesn't matter what he has it set to. You have to set HDMI Black Level to whatever is correct for your source device.

Back off man, I'm a scientist.
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post #295 of 1433 Old 06-30-2008, 10:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zerog6 View Post

Oh damn, thanks for pointing that out. I forgot to write it in.

Warm-1

Wow!!
Even with 1004, these settings look amazing to me. Thanks Zero.
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post #296 of 1433 Old 06-30-2008, 10:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sharkcohen View Post

It doesn't matter what he has it set to. You have to set HDMI Black Level to whatever is correct for your source device.

Thanks shark. I thought it was more complicated than that. Lol.
I see now. If my device has a black level option, than I can choose whichever looks better.
Thanks again.
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post #297 of 1433 Old 06-30-2008, 10:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zerog6 View Post

Alright here's my first run: I attached the HCFR file

Contrast Ratio 2323:1
Average Gamma: 2.27

I highly doubt the contrast ratio and gamma are going to get any better. As had always been suspected, the gamma problems I was having were all due to the spyder-2 not being able to calculate it well enough, especially under 30 IRE. The same goes for the contrast ratio. Overall it seems to be pretty darn good. I also don't think the grayscale will get any better. So as far as I can see, the only thing I still have to work on is the color space just a bit more. Let me know what you guys think

For you guys asking to put up user menu settings also. I can't do it because I forgot to record what the default SM settings were in order to accurately do it. If someone can get into their SM and let me know what the "WB Movie" gains and offsets are set to by default for the 1007 FW, then i'll be happy to do user level settings.

Lookin good!

Couple of things.

Your mix of SM and UM is kinda hard for me to follow. Can you not "reset" everything in SM and generate a UM Only calibration?

One of the issues with sharing settings might be that I have seen where default settings in SM vary with firmware version.

Using Tom Huffman's guide of making 10% gray window Y value = 0.0063 * 100% gray window Y value, your's seems low. Your 100% Y is 150.761 and using Tom's number your 10% Y should be ~0.950. At 0.818 yours is quite a bit lower. Now if by running a near black set of measurements and proving you aren't crushing blacks, then you are fine. If you have to turn brightness up a click or two, I'll bet you'll be getting CR closer to the ones I get. (~1800)

EDIT: Oh! and it looks like you forgot your grayscale settings.
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post #298 of 1433 Old 06-30-2008, 10:25 PM
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I didn't save the ColorHCFR file, but I did tweak the Magenta settings from Run5. Everything else is the same.

I am only working in User Menu so far.

Here are the settings. For anybody interested the ColorHCFR file for Run 5 is attached to post 163 in this thread.

Rec709 disk in Blu-ray (PS3)
PS3 settings: YpBCr
superwhite ON
RGB Limited

MOVIE
WARM1

HDMI Black Normal
Energy saving OFF

95 44 20 44 50/50 (Con, brit, sharp, color, tint)

BLACK ADJ OFF
DYN CONT OFF
GAMMA 0
FLESH 0

GRAYSCALE
26 26 21 30 26 25

Backlight, AMP, NR: user choice

COLOR SPACE, CUSTOM
R R49
G R40 G53
B G5 B64
Y R54 G49 B3
C R49 G58 B55
M R49 G7 B71

I will be doing a validation run/tweaking sometime soon. I've just been enjoying the TV for awhile.

Then I'll probably look at the SM. My dE's are all good enough with regards to grayscale, even though in SM it can be fine tuned. What I need is to fix the red primary, and I don't even think that can be done. So why bother.
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post #299 of 1433 Old 06-30-2008, 10:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zerog6 View Post

It's actually the other way around. The lower the gamma, the brighter the image. The higher the gamma, the darker the image.

Yah. Shouldn't type when I'm falling asleep.
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post #300 of 1433 Old 06-30-2008, 10:37 PM
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Has anybody checked to see what the SM defaults are for the two different firmware versions currently available?

And what, briefly, does the upgrade deliver from the calibration standpoint?
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