Official LNxxA750 Calibration/Settings Thread - Page 12 - AVS Forum
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Old 07-02-2008, 10:38 PM
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Originally Posted by zerog6 View Post

Yeah i'm using the Blu-Ray version. But it still doesn't have the patterns needed to do saturation and near-black/near-white measurements.

Okay I see the red that takes a nose dive from 80-90%, is that what you're talking about?

That's weird. My BR version has the patterns to do everything.

You are talking about the disc alluringreality and hwjohn put out, right.

Well the colors get wild, but I'm talking about the shallow "V" the whole gamma curve has. It's not really very pronounced and probably doesn't matter, but if you look at it with contrast settings going lower a point at a time, you'll see that the V gets flatter little by little.
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Old 07-02-2008, 10:48 PM
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Originally Posted by zerog6 View Post

White Balance at 10% or below are not supposed to be accurate because they're so close to black. So no worries there

Unfortunately I can't do complete saturation or near black/near white luminance measurements because I don't have the test patterns for it. The DVE and AVS discs I'm using only have 5% increments and 75% and 100% color patterns.

hmm I know there are links here to ones that do have the saturations.
I even used it the other day.
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Old 07-02-2008, 10:50 PM
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Originally Posted by kjgarrison View Post

Do you have the newest AVS disc? The one that does Bluray or the one that does HDDVD? They have all the patterns exactly in the right order for ColorHCFR, and of course it's free.

If you look at the individual colors in the gamma graph in your latest 100% contrast setting, you see what I believe is called 'soft clipping'. It isn't real bad and it might even look better. With my 71 I explored to find out where no clipping happened and where tolerable (soft) clipping happened. With the 71 those contrast settings were 89 and 92 respectively. The 750 is much more tolerant of higher contrast settings, and what you are showing with contrast at 100 is about what the 71 looked like with contrast at 92.

i think this shows even more that sets do vary a bit, since I can definitely get to Contrast 95 on my 71 series with NO white clipping, soft or not (at least I don't think, not quite sure what you meant by his V get flatter little by little).
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Old 07-03-2008, 12:14 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kjgarrison View Post

That's weird. My BR version has the patterns to do everything.

You are talking about the disc alluringreality and hwjohn put out, right.

Well the colors get wild, but I'm talking about the shallow "V" the whole gamma curve has. It's not really very pronounced and probably doesn't matter, but if you look at it with contrast settings going lower a point at a time, you'll see that the V gets flatter little by little.

No the V thing wouldn't get better, I tried. It's always been like that no matter what I set the Contrast at.

I believe there's only one AVS disc so it should be the same. Maybe there's another one they came out with that I didn't know about?

This is what I see on the disc:
Basic Settings
10% Grayscale
100% Colors
5% Grayscale
75% Colors
Adjust Gray
Misc Patterns
Uniformity

I went through all of those menus, none of them have all the patterns needed for those measurements
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Old 07-03-2008, 03:53 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zerog6 View Post

I went through all of those menus, none of them have all the patterns needed for those measurements

Zerog6, did you check this site:
http://www.w6rz.net/
It seems to have additonal patterns, that might not be on the disc.


BTW just to clarify the Main WB settings are all 512, including the Movie Off/Gain ones at the bottom?

Sub Brightness 128
R Offset - 512
G Offset - 512
B Offset - 512
Sub Contrast 128
R Gain - 512
G Gain - 512
B Gain - 512
Movie R Offset
Movie B Offset
Movie R Gain
Movie B Gain


Do they even matter when making the calibrations?
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Old 07-03-2008, 07:54 AM
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Old 07-03-2008, 08:41 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kjgarrison View Post

Here.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=948496

Yeah it turns out the I was still using the Beta disc. I'm gonna put in the new one and run a quick test and post it.
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Old 07-03-2008, 08:46 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wtfer View Post

Zerog6, did you check this site:
http://www.w6rz.net/
It seems to have additonal patterns, that might not be on the disc.


BTW just to clarify the Main WB settings are all 512, including the Movie Off/Gain ones at the bottom?

Sub Brightness 128
R Offset - 512
G Offset - 512
B Offset - 512
Sub Contrast 128
R Gain - 512
G Gain - 512
B Gain - 512
Movie R Offset
Movie B Offset
Movie R Gain
Movie B Gain


Do they even matter when making the calibrations?

Yeah everything be default should be like that in FW 1007.

The ones that say Movie though, should not. Either way, those Movie settings can't be adjusted. The TV sets those automatically which I think match the offset and gain that you set in the "WB Movie" menu
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Old 07-03-2008, 11:10 AM
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Alright, I took all the new measurements after getting the new AVS disc patterns. The HCFR file is attached below so check it out.

One very encouraging thing I found. Now with the new test patterns, I was finally able to do a real contrast measurement. And it ends up, that I was already getting the really high contrast ratios of 3,600:1 and so that we've seen from other pro calibrations. The thing was, that the other calibrations all state the the "ansi" contrast ratios. And I was only measuring "on/off" contrast. "Ansi" contrast, is by nature much higher than "on/off" contrast, by about 500:1 difference. So after doing the proper measurements. I got a "on/off" ratio of about 3,100:1 that's what I had previously, and now I got an "ansi" contrast ratio of almost 3,600:1. So there you have it.

The saturations for all the colors look pretty nice after taking the measurements. The only one that's slightly off, is red at 50% with a dE of 7, but at 7 it's pretty much hardly considered to be off.

 

i1-Final.zip 5.265625k . file
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Old 07-03-2008, 12:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zerog6 View Post

Alright, I took all the new measurements after getting the new AVS disc patterns. The HCFR file is attached below so check it out.

One very encouraging thing I found. Now with the new test patterns, I was finally able to do a real contrast measurement. And it ends up, that I was already getting the really high contrast ratios of 3,600:1 and so that we've seen from other pro calibrations. The thing was, that the other calibrations all state the the "ansi" contrast ratios. And I was only measuring "on/off" contrast. "Ansi" contrast, is by nature much higher than "on/off" contrast, by about 500:1 difference. So after doing the proper measurements. I got a "on/off" ratio of about 3,100:1 that's what I had previously, and now I got an "ansi" contrast ratio of almost 3,600:1. So there you have it.

The saturations for all the colors look pretty nice after taking the measurements. The only one that's slightly off, is red at 50% with a dE of 7, but at 7 it's pretty much hardly considered to be off.


wow, this set is much better than the 71 series. Now really hoping they will swap out my 71 for one of these. Mine has such weird flickering and other strange rendering effects not sure they can fix it so they might have to.

those saturations are are more even than is possible with the 71 series too.
(interesting that they are good at COlor 50 while 71 series needed like 40, I guess they didn't hype up the saturation at default as much with the new series)
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Old 07-03-2008, 03:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zerog6 View Post

Alright, I took all the new measurements after getting the new AVS disc patterns. The HCFR file is attached below so check it out.

One very encouraging thing I found. Now with the new test patterns, I was finally able to do a real contrast measurement. And it ends up, that I was already getting the really high contrast ratios of 3,600:1 and so that we've seen from other pro calibrations. The thing was, that the other calibrations all state the the "ansi" contrast ratios. And I was only measuring "on/off" contrast. "Ansi" contrast, is by nature much higher than "on/off" contrast, by about 500:1 difference. So after doing the proper measurements. I got a "on/off" ratio of about 3,100:1 that's what I had previously, and now I got an "ansi" contrast ratio of almost 3,600:1. So there you have it.

The saturations for all the colors look pretty nice after taking the measurements. The only one that's slightly off, is red at 50% with a dE of 7, but at 7 it's pretty much hardly considered to be off.

That's great, the contrast numbers match up almost identically with UMR when he did one calibration.

BTW are the user WB still the same as you had them (I don't see them in the chart file)
Offset
-R 28
-G 25
-B 21
Gain
-R 25
-G 25
-B 29


I always though the ANSI was always lower than the on/off contrast.
Like Home theater magazine.com has numbers like these:

Sony BRAVIA KDS-50A3000 SXRD
ANSI - 275:1, On/Off - 3,971:1


Sony XBR4
ANSI - 1,708:1, On/Off - 3,751:1


Samsung LN-T5271F
ANSI - 1,413:1, On/Off - 2,039:1


Pioneer Elite KURO PRO-110FD
ANSI - 3,239:1, On/Off - 4,020:1


The ANSI is always lower.
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Old 07-03-2008, 04:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wtfer View Post

That's great, the contrast numbers match up almost identically with UMR when he did one calibration.

BTW are the user WB still the same as you had them (I don't see them in the chart file)
Offset
-R 28
-G 25
-B 21
Gain
-R 25
-G 25
-B 29


I always though the ANSI was always lower than the on/off contrast.
Like Home theater magazine.com has numbers like these:

Sony BRAVIA KDS-50A3000 SXRD
ANSI - 275:1, On/Off - 3,971:1


Sony XBR4
ANSI - 1,708:1, On/Off - 3,751:1


Samsung LN-T5271F
ANSI - 1,413:1, On/Off - 2,039:1


Pioneer Elite KURO PRO-110FD
ANSI - 3,239:1, On/Off - 4,020:1


The ANSI is always lower.

Yeah those are the correct WB user settings. I didn't put them in the HFCR file, but I posted them in the previous page.

As far as the contrast ratio, idk, that's how i got them. I didn't really pay attention to the order I displayed the patterns, so perhaps I just displayed them backwards and the ansi is actually the on/off and vice versa, so you might be right.
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Old 07-03-2008, 04:24 PM
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ANSI can never be higher than on-off.
On-off is best case contrast (full screen white/full screen black) and ANSI is close to worst case (checkerboard pattern with white and black at the same time).

As a side question, does this set have better contrast than the 650 series sets?
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Old 07-03-2008, 04:58 PM
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Oh one last question zerog6

In the WB Movie mode Service Menu, are the RGB option for Warm2 (default) or Warm1?

Like if you have Warm2, the only RGB options to adjust are named
W2 R offset
W2 G offset
W2 B offset
W2 R Gain
W2 B Gain

But if you select Warm2 to Warm1 in the WB Movie mode, the options grey out the W2 ones & these become available:
W1 R offset
W1 G offset
W1 B offset
W1 R Gain
W1 B Gain

Or did you calibrate the W2 service menu option & then just selected Warm1 in the normal user menu?
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Old 07-03-2008, 05:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sethk View Post

ANSI can never be higher than on-off.
On-off is best case contrast (full screen white/full screen black) and ANSI is close to worst case (checkerboard pattern with white and black at the same time).

As a side question, does this set have better contrast than the 650 series sets?

Then it was probably just me displaying the patterns backwards for the contrast ratio measurements.

The 650 and 750 are supposed to be identical in terms of PQ. So no, they should have the same contrast ratios.
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Old 07-03-2008, 05:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wtfer View Post

Oh one last question zerog6

In the WB Movie mode Service Menu, are the RGB option for Warm2 (default) or Warm1?

Like if you have Warm2, the only RGB options to adjust are named
W2 R offset
W2 G offset
W2 B offset
W2 R Gain
W2 B Gain

But if you select Warm2 to Warm1 in the WB Movie mode, the options grey out the W2 ones & these become available:
W1 R offset
W1 G offset
W1 B offset
W1 R Gain
W1 B Gain

Or did you calibrate the W2 service menu option & then just selected Warm1 in the normal user menu?

You calibrate the TV using only the settings that you're able to adjust depending on what color temperature you choose.

In my case, out of the box, my TV was most accurate using Warm-1. So you set the "WB Movie" menu to Warm-1, and you adjust the grayscale using the gain and offset that the TV allows you to.

The other settings that are grayed out, no matter what they're set at, do not apply to the TV unless you actually select that color temperature to be used.

Remember that you have to set both the WB Movie menu, and the Expert Settings menu to the same color temperature and settings
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Old 07-03-2008, 06:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zerog6 View Post

You calibrate the TV using only the settings that you're able to adjust depending on what color temperature you choose.

In my case, out of the box, my TV was most accurate using Warm-1. So you set the "WB Movie" menu to Warm-1, and you adjust the grayscale using the gain and offset that the TV allows you to.

The other settings that are grayed out, no matter what they're set at, do not apply to the TV unless you actually select that color temperature to be used.

Remember that you have to set both the WB Movie menu, and the Expert Settings menu to the same color temperature and settings

Expert Settings? You mean the one that you have to turn on in the OptionByte menu first to get to it?

Expert Settings:

Calibration - Off
P-Mode (grayed out)
Color Tone (grayed out)
Backlight (grayed out)
etc etc....

That one? I thought that turning the calibration option on would lead to the TV messing up where people had to use that black & white checkerboard to restore to normal?
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Old 07-03-2008, 06:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wtfer View Post

Expert Settings? You mean the one that you have to turn on in the OptionByte menu first to get to it?

Expert Settings:

Calibration - Off
P-Mode (grayed out)
Color Tone (grayed out)
Backlight (grayed out)
etc etc....

That one? I thought that turning the calibration option on would lead to the TV messing up where people had to use that black & white checkerboard to restore to normal?

Yeah that's the correct one that you need to turn on. That "calibration" option in the expert settings is just to turn on those settings so you can adjust them.

The other "calibration" that is harmful is somewhere else so you don't have to worry about it.
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Old 07-03-2008, 08:19 PM
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ZeroG, what HDMI Black Level are you using on your settings? I had assumed Low, but then I saw UltimateAVMag.com's settings were set to Normal. My understanding was that most sources should be set to Low, and videogames should be knocked up to Normal.

My devices are DirecTV and an Xbox 360. I had been using your settings on DirecTV, with HDMI Black Level set to Low, and had been using a mix on the 360 input: playing games I would set the 360 to Expanded, and the TV to Normal, if watching a movie on the 360 I would return the 360 to Normal and set the TV to Low.

Can anyone help with this? I want to make sure I have the correct understanding of what blacklevels to use for what sources in using these calibrations. Thanks!
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Old 07-03-2008, 08:56 PM
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Originally Posted by spfhelmiii View Post

ZeroG, what HDMI Black Level are you using on your settings? I had assumed Low, but then I saw UltimateAVMag.com's settings were set to Normal. My understanding was that most sources should be set to Low, and videogames should be knocked up to Normal.

My devices are DirecTV and an Xbox 360. I had been using your settings on DirecTV, with HDMI Black Level set to Low, and had been using a mix on the 360 input: playing games I would set the 360 to Expanded, and the TV to Normal, if watching a movie on the 360 I would return the 360 to Normal and set the TV to Low.

Can anyone help with this? I want to make sure I have the correct understanding of what blacklevels to use for what sources in using these calibrations. Thanks!

The HDMI Black level is not an optional setting. You set it at what your source is supposed to display.
From what I know, any cable/satellite feed is supposed to be set to Low, and a BD/HD DVD player is automatically set to Normal and doesn't let you change it anyway.

I don't know what other sources use, so maybe someone else can let you know what it's suppose to be set to with any others.
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Old 07-03-2008, 10:47 PM
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Thanks again zerog.

I put in your settings on my TV (no service menu changes). . . They look pretty good. Only two qualms, the anchor's face on NFL Live looks like he has a bit of jaundice (a little yellow) and maybe it's a bit dark for when I watch TV in the day time (we'll see tomorrow). But the blacks do look great as do the other colors.

I'm running a different firmware, so that might be a small reason and/or just my panels are a different too.

But overall it all looks good. Thanks for the works and always appreciated.

Maybe if I'm bored I'll try the magazines, but I have a strong feeling that that is just going to be way to dark for my liking. My room isn't that dark to begin with.

I have studdad's 'simple' settings as the standard which work as well and actually might work the best during the day, while zerog's might work the best during the night and/or for movies.
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Old 07-04-2008, 02:47 AM
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Well having tried zerog6 latest settings, I can say I am very very impressed.
Absolutely killer shadow details with deep blacks. The color looks about as accurate as you can get to the naked eye.

I tried quite a few calibrations, including quite a few website/magazine ones & from a few people on the A550/650/750 calibration threads who had calibration discs & eye spyders/programs to do tests with. Zerog6 latest settings are simply the best period IMHO.

It's probably the closest the set can get to be professionally calibrated outside a certified ISF technician.

To anyone having doubts, just try it.
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Old 07-04-2008, 11:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kokobucks View Post

Thanks again zerog.

I put in your settings on my TV (no service menu changes). . . They look pretty good. Only two qualms, the anchor's face on NFL Live looks like he has a bit of jaundice (a little yellow) and maybe it's a bit dark for when I watch TV in the day time (we'll see tomorrow). But the blacks do look great as do the other colors.

I'm running a different firmware, so that might be a small reason and/or just my panels are a different too.

But overall it all looks good. Thanks for the works and always appreciated.

Maybe if I'm bored I'll try the magazines, but I have a strong feeling that that is just going to be way to dark for my liking. My room isn't that dark to begin with.

I have studdad's 'simple' settings as the standard which work as well and actually might work the best during the day, while zerog's might work the best during the night and/or for movies.

I think you and I may have gotten similar SM settings or what have you. I tried his latest settings too, and although it looked good, again it had yellow and green push. Just goes to show you how differently these sets can be from the factory.

So far, I have found my "non calibrated" settings to be the best for my tv. I am sure I will be able to get better, but it will take my own calibration disk I'm sure, as a lot of peoples sets seem to be closer to Zerogs as a starting point than yours and mine.

52" Samsung 750, finally satisfaction
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Old 07-05-2008, 10:45 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by studdad View Post

I think you and I may have gotten similar SM settings or what have you. I tried his latest settings too, and although it looked good, again it had yellow and green push. Just goes to show you how differently these sets can be from the factory.

So far, I have found my "non calibrated" settings to be the best for my tv. I am sure I will be able to get better, but it will take my own calibration disk I'm sure, as a lot of peoples sets seem to be closer to Zerogs as a starting point than yours and mine.

Maybe. . . That would make sense.

I went back to zerog's settings from page 2 for the movie mode. That was what I was using before I upgraded my firmware. Still like it. And Using yours for standard.

If you end up getting a calibration DVD and play around let us know your settings.
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Old 07-05-2008, 02:38 PM
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Originally Posted by kokobucks View Post

Maybe. . . That would make sense.

I went back to zerog's settings from page 2 for the movie mode. That was what I was using before I upgraded my firmware. Still like it. And Using yours for standard.

If you end up getting a calibration DVD and play around let us know your settings.

Will do. Of course, some of the difference could just be that I like less yellow in my picture than other people, even if it is "correct" from a calibration standpoint. I don't know, will just have to wait and see when I calibrate it according to a disk.

52" Samsung 750, finally satisfaction
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Old 07-05-2008, 03:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by studdad View Post

Will do. Of course, some of the difference could just be that I like less yellow in my picture than other people, even if it is "correct" from a calibration standpoint. I don't know, will just have to wait and see when I calibrate it according to a disk.

Did you try the service menu tweaks?

WB Main:
Sub Brightness 128
R Offset - 512
G Offset - 512
B Offset - 512
Sub Contrast 128 (Mine became 134 after I switched everything to 512)
R Gain - 512
G Gain - 512
B Gain - 512
Movie R Offset - default of whatever they are
Movie B Offset - default of whatever they are
Movie R Gain - default of whatever they are
Movie B Gain - default of whatever they are



WB Movie Mode.
Turn on it on & select Movie mode, than switch the Warm2 setting to Warm1 & make these adjustments:

W1 R_Gain = 52
W1 B_Gain = -89
W1 R_Offset = 0
W1 B_Offset = 8
Gamma = M2
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Old 07-05-2008, 04:27 PM
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Originally Posted by studdad View Post

Will do. Of course, some of the difference could just be that I like less yellow in my picture than other people, even if it is "correct" from a calibration standpoint. I don't know, will just have to wait and see when I calibrate it according to a disk.

Could be as well. That is the biggest thing I saw in zerog's last calibration. A bit two yellow. More of a darker yellow hue then bright yellow.

Not a huge deal as I do like his original calibration settings, even if they are technically a bit inaccurate. To the eye they are pleasing and at the end I guess that is what matters.
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Old 07-05-2008, 07:23 PM
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zerog6 (and anybody else that has a colorimeter in this thread ):

Your discussions on calibrating your TVs has been very interesting! I'm the lone person with a colorimeter in the 550 calibration thread (and I'm a newb), so seeing the progression has been useful.

I've got two questions for you:
1) How different are you dE values if you use the 75% saturation colors (it's title 5 on the AVS HD disc)? My blue luminance drops severely if I calibrate to 75% and then measure the 100% colors.

2) Do you have energy saver on? Have you tried to measure with it off (or in the opposite setting)? I'm seeing some strange behavior between having energy saver off and energy saver on low (with the backlight increased so the brightness stays the same) that relates to the gamma and the color luminance values, and I was wondering if it's just a quirk of all Samsung LCDs with evergy saver or just mine (having e.saver on flattens out my gamma but increases my color luminance values).

Thanks!
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Old 07-05-2008, 08:49 PM
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Originally Posted by wtfer View Post

Did you try the service menu tweaks?

WB Main:
Sub Brightness 128
R Offset - 512
G Offset - 512
B Offset - 512
Sub Contrast 128 (Mine became 134 after I switched everything to 512)
R Gain - 512
G Gain - 512
B Gain - 512
Movie R Offset - default of whatever they are
Movie B Offset - default of whatever they are
Movie R Gain - default of whatever they are
Movie B Gain - default of whatever they are



WB Movie Mode.
Turn on it on & select Movie mode, than switch the Warm2 setting to Warm1 & make these adjustments:

W1 R_Gain = 52
W1 B_Gain = -89
W1 R_Offset = 0
W1 B_Offset = 8
Gamma = M2

No, I didn't do the SM changes, just the UM, as I thought he had said there was really not a noticeable difference between the two. I'm sure he will be on soon and can clarify. I just watched Resident Evil Extinction on Starz, looked great. The movie itself has a yellow tone to it, with the desert scenes and all, and when I went to Zerogs settings everything got more yellow and had a green cast to it. There is no way that the movie was supposed to look like that, so I am sure the difference is due to the variance in tvs. I might just give the the SM settings a look and see if that makes any difference.

52" Samsung 750, finally satisfaction
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Old 07-06-2008, 12:27 PM
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Originally Posted by studdad View Post

No, I didn't do the SM changes, just the UM, as I thought he had said there was really not a noticeable difference between the two. I'm sure he will be on soon and can clarify. I just watched Resident Evil Extinction on Starz, looked great. The movie itself has a yellow tone to it, with the desert scenes and all, and when I went to Zerogs settings everything got more yellow and had a green cast to it. There is no way that the movie was supposed to look like that, so I am sure the difference is due to the variance in tvs. I might just give the the SM settings a look and see if that makes any difference.

Let us know what you find out. I did zero's UM calibrations, and they look good. But I see a yellowish tint in it as well.

Also, I'm not sure if this was intended or not, but the picture seems a bit more blurry. I compared zero's movie calibration to the default dynamic settings with a backlight of 4 and a color temp of normal, and the picture seemed sharper on the dynamic settings.
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