Official LNxxA750 Calibration/Settings Thread - Page 4 - AVS Forum
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post #91 of 1433 Old 06-12-2008, 03:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by n765dg View Post

zerog6

Are your color space settings to adjust your xy on your primary and secondaries, or a % of your brightness?

For xy, any changes in that does affect the luminance of the colors anyway, so the brightness of the colors does come into play also.
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post #92 of 1433 Old 06-13-2008, 05:04 AM
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Originally Posted by zerog6 View Post

For xy, any changes in that does affect the luminance of the colors anyway, so the brightness of the colors does come into play also.

I under stand i guess it was my way of asking if this tv was capable of changing the actual xy on the primaries. Mine doesn't show up till monday (hopefully). Thanks!
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post #93 of 1433 Old 06-13-2008, 08:23 AM
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Originally Posted by n765dg View Post

I under stand i guess it was my way of asking if this tv was capable of changing the actual xy on the primaries. Mine doesn't show up till monday (hopefully). Thanks!

Oh, well yeah it does. It's just named differently than any other sets. Usually the names of the adjustments for each individual color are like hue, saturation, and lightness or something like that, but samsung does it like sony and just call it red, green, blue, which makes it more confusing.
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post #94 of 1433 Old 06-13-2008, 11:13 AM
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I just wanted to say Thank You ZeroG, your settings are very nice indeed, looking forward to anymore tweeks you may have in the future.

I have a LN52A750 with firmware 1007.

Mosh~~
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post #95 of 1433 Old 06-13-2008, 11:07 PM
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zerog6 - thanks!!

I used your settings and they even made my playing of a divx file look good.
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post #96 of 1433 Old 06-14-2008, 02:21 PM
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Thanks for the comments guys.

I don't think i'm going to be posting any other differences in settings like those. I've already learned how to adjust everything in the service menu so i'll be doing everything there instead. But of course i'll be hanging around seeing what people are posting.
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post #97 of 1433 Old 06-14-2008, 03:03 PM
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Just a round of thanks zerog6, I just applied your calibration settings, very nice and colors seem right on, Biggest gain for me as I having a tough time dialing in flesh tones on darker skinned people. Now they're spot on. Very happy about this since it was the only thing left for me to adjust. Again thanks for your time and selflessness in posting these settings.
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post #98 of 1433 Old 06-14-2008, 04:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zerog6 View Post

The 6500 you can get, that's not the problem. You can adjust the white balance to 6500 no matter what enhancements you have turned on.

But, It's impossible to get a correct gamma curve with dynamic contrast turned on. What dynamic contrast does, is increase the brightness or luminance of all colors, and decrease the luminance of blacks. So, when it's turned on, it basically makes anything with color too bright, and anything with less color too dark. And the higher the IRE value you go, it gets progressively worse.

yeah, at first i used it on my 71 series, then i noticed it was causing clipping of bright colors, like the sand traps at augusta would clip if I had it on and in the end I realized everything is simply more realistic with it off (except perhaps really dark scenes where the improved contrast it gives makes them seem more realistic, but overall I think Dynamic is worse).
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post #99 of 1433 Old 06-14-2008, 04:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wtfer View Post

ok I tried most of the settings & took some pictures, what does everyone think looks best?

Took 3 pictures of the same scene of the Blu-ray Silent Hill movie at 1080p via HDMI.
-Top pics using EVil4Blue HDMI settings that he came up with using the Blu-ray DVE disc for the A650 LCD.
-Middle pics using zerog6 HDMI settings that he came up with using Spyder2 colorimeter, ColorHCFR software, DVE-BD & AVS-BD, & Grayscale Calibration for Dummies Guide for the A750 LCD.
-Bottom pics are from cNet HDMI A650 LCD settings.

All three settings are way different from each one & all used calibration discs


one huge problem is how do you know what your camera is doing?
differet pic modes and processing will give you totally different gamma responses and the AWB can totally vary too.
I don't see how you can post photos and expect to get much out of it (also, it useless unless people are using carefully calibrated PC monitors themselves).
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post #100 of 1433 Old 06-14-2008, 04:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zerog6 View Post

Alright I've finished my calibration, here's everything:

Tools: Spyder2 colorimeter, ColorHCFR software, DVE-BD & AVS-BD, Grayscale Calibration for Dummies Guide: http://www.curtpalme.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=10457

Final Settings (for now, lol):

Mode: Movie
Backlight: 3/dark 4-5/lighted
Contrast: 90
Brightness: 43
Sharpness: 10 for BD / 20 for DTV
Color: 43
Tint: G50/R50

Black adjust: Off
Dynamic Contrast: Off
Gamma: -2
Color Space: Auto
Flesh Tone: 0
Edge Enhancement: On
xvYCC: Off

White Balance:
Offset
R: 28
G: 25
B: 21
Gain
R: 25
G: 25
B: 29


don't forget that the WB settings also interplay very greatly with the brightness setting!

also, my spyder2 tentatively appears to measure gamma curves somewhat different than my X94 probe, and i'm not sure I trust the spyder2....

i'm really interested to see waht kjgarisson will get for the contrast ratio on this set....
i might also have the 71 to 750 switch, but if the CR isn't much better it might be better to just try to have my 71 patched up. The color controller on the 750 might move the primaries around better too though.
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post #101 of 1433 Old 06-14-2008, 05:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by skibum5000 View Post

don't forget that the WB settings also interplay very greatly with the brightness setting!

also, my spyder2 tentatively appears to measure gamma curves somewhat different than my X94 probe, and i'm not sure I trust the spyder2....

i'm really interested to see waht kjgarisson will get for the contrast ratio on this set....
i might also have the 71 to 750 switch, but if the CR isn't much better it might be better to just try to have my 71 patched up. The color controller on the 750 might move the primaries around better too though.

Yeah that's one thing I really can't make out. The Gamma curves just don't make sense. I don't know if it's the Spyder2, or if it was my inexperience. But after more and more time doing it, I figured it could be the spyder2 that doesn't measure gamma very well. Using the Spyder2 In order for me to get a 2.2 gamma curve, I have to turn gamma all the way down to -3 and lower the brightness even further. Doing that of course completely crushed the blacks, I couldn't even see the 4% black bars in the test patterns. So now i've settled on just eye-balling the brightness and gamma, which isn't that big a deal, it's probably the only thing they say is pretty accurate just by sight. If I measure it, my average gamma is 2.1.

I wanted to test the Contrast Ratio, but neither the DVE nor the AVS discs have a checkerboard pattern that you need to get the measurements

Later on when I get some free cash i'll re-sell the spyder2 and get myself an i1
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post #102 of 1433 Old 06-15-2008, 08:58 AM
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Hello all.

I have spent a few hours on this and here are some first thoughts.
  1. This is close to a full featured CMS, with the ability to move primaries and secondaries (within limits) as well as the ability to adjust luminance settings of each primary and secondary individually.
  2. Using blue filters, the 750's "Blue screen" feature, and my DTP-94 colorimeter results in quite different color settings. For example, using the Rec709 disc and the TV's "Blue Screen" feature, the color setting that looks right is 52. Using the blue filter that came with DVE, the setting is 47. And using my DTP-94, it is 45. However, because of the changes that can be made with the individual colors, the main color setting is only relative.
  3. Also doing basic calibration I get a significantly different brightness setting with the visual "basic calibration" on the Rec709 disc and the DTP-94 probe. The brightness settings using the disc alone are ~38, but I tested this with Near Black in ColorHCFR and black was crushed (and in using these settings while watching TV black looked crushed, too). The setting using the probe is 43-44 consistently.
  4. The results I obtained match with ColorHCFR and CalMAN.
  5. I'm getting CR values in the 1800-2000 range.


For those that just want settings to play with:

Firmware 1004

DTP-94 colorimiter probe

Pattern is Rec709 (Blu-ray), PS3.
PS3 settings
RGB LIMITED
YpBCr ON
YpBCR Superwhite ON

I show the PS3 setup to illustrate how the calibration was done. This is the only pattern generator I have. I take the settings and input them into my STB HDMI input. There are no "game" settings that will be coming from me.

Mode - Standard
Backlight - your choice (calibrations were done with 8, but that is just to get tighter readings at the low light levels. BL does not change calibration, so if you want a brighter or darker picture use BL, not Contrast and Brightness)
Contrast - 89
Brightness - 44
Sharpness - 50
Color - 45
Tint - 50/50

Detailed Settings
Black Adjust OFF
Dynamic Contrast OFF
Gamma - 0

Color Space - CUSTOM
R R45
G R43 G49
B G6 B57
Y R50 G48
C R61 G55 B50
M R46 G9 B61

Flesh Tone 0
Edge Enhancement OFF

White Balance
R- 26
G- 26
B- 23
R- 39
G- 27
B- 13

Picture Options
Color tone - NORMAL
Size JUST SCAN
Digital NR AUTO
Hdmi black level NORMAL

Auto Motion Plus YOUR CHOICE

Energy Saving OFF

For those that have ColorHCFR the file is attached




For those that don't have ColorHCFR here are some screens from the ColorHCFR run

Overall, the dE values are pretty good. The grayscale can be better, and even though it will be, I doubt it will be a difference that is visible.

I didn't capture a "before" of the CIE, but for those that have seen the 71's CIE, they are the same.

If anybody has CalMAN and wants that file, let me know.

 

750 RUN 4.zip 2.85546875k . file
LL
LL
LL
LL
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post #103 of 1433 Old 06-15-2008, 09:18 AM
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You have two settings for Blue in custom color space. What does this mean?

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post #104 of 1433 Old 06-15-2008, 09:59 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kjgarrison View Post

Hello all.

I have spent a few hours on this and here are some first thoughts.
  1. This is close to a full featured CMS, with the ability to move primaries and secondaries (within limits) as well as the ability to adjust luminance settings of each primary and secondary individually.
  2. Using blue filters, the 750's "Blue screen" feature, and my DTP-94 colorimeter results in quite different color settings. For example, using the Rec709 disc and the TV's "Blue Screen" feature, the color setting that looks right is 52. Using the blue filter that came with DVE, the setting is 47. And using my DTP-94, it is 45. However, because of the changes that can be made with the individual colors, the main color setting is only relative.
  3. Also doing basic calibration I get a significantly different brightness setting with the visual "basic calibration" on the Rec709 disc and the DTP-94 probe. The brightness settings using the disc alone are ~38, but I tested this with Near Black in ColorHCFR and black was crushed (and in using these settings while watching TV black looked crushed, too). The setting using the probe is 43-44 consistently.
  4. The results I obtained match with ColorHCFR and CalMAN.
  5. I'm getting CR values in the 1800-2000 range.


For those that just want settings to play with:

Firmware 1004

DTP-94 colorimiter probe

Pattern is Rec709 (Blu-ray), PS3.
PS3 settings
RGB LIMITED
YpBCr ON
YpBCR Superwhite ON

I show the PS3 setup to illustrate how the calibration was done. This is the only pattern generator I have. I take the settings and input them into my STB HDMI input. There are no "game" settings that will be coming from me.

Mode - Standard
Backlight - your choice (calibrations were done with 8, but that is just to get tighter readings at the low light levels. BL does not change calibration, so if you want a brighter or darker picture use BL, not Contrast and Brightness)
Contrast - 89
Brightness - 44
Sharpness - 50
Color - 45
Tint - 50/50

Detailed Settings
Black Adjust OFF
Dynamic Contrast OFF
Gamma - 0

Color Space - CUSTOM
R R45
G R43 G49
B B6 B57
Y R50 G48
C R61 G55 B50
M R46 G9 B61

Flesh Tone 0
Edge Enhancement OFF

White Balance
R- 26
G- 26
B- 23
R- 39
G- 27
B- 13

Picture Options
Color tone - NORMAL
Size JUST SCAN
Digital NR AUTO
Hdmi black level NORMAL

Auto Motion Plus YOUR CHOICE

Energy Saving OFF

For those that have ColorHCFR the file is attached




For those that don't have ColorHCFR here are some screens from the ColorHCFR run

Overall, the dE values are pretty good. The grayscale can be better, and even though it will be, I doubt it will be a difference that is visible.

I didn't capture a "before" of the CIE, but for those that have seen the 71's CIE, they are the same.

If anybody has CalMAN and wants that file, let me know.

Hey Bud, so you finally got your 750??? One questions before I give these settings a try. Why is Sharpness at 50? I know it does not do much with an HD signal, but with most sets it is down in the 0-20 range. Anything different with this set?

52" Samsung 750, finally satisfaction
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post #105 of 1433 Old 06-15-2008, 10:33 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by studdad View Post

Hey Bud, so you finally got your 750??? One questions before I give these settings a try. Why is Sharpness at 50? I know it does not do much with an HD signal, but with most sets it is down in the 0-20 range. Anything different with this set?

I've found with noise reduction on a setting of low, that sharpness at 50 helps restore a little detail the noise reduction takes away, IMO the noise reduction on this set is quite awesome and really helps with eliminating excessive film grain when viewing BR or HD broadcasts that have a bit noise in them.
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post #106 of 1433 Old 06-15-2008, 10:40 AM
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Again in my experience, using a setting of AUTO for noise reduction really modifies the image quite a bit, and generally applies a lot of NR robbing the image of detail. Unfortunately I've found that one needs to adjust the NR based on the content they're are viewing, maybe most people don't notice, but just a thing for me. The NR is one of the features that really sold me on this set.
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post #107 of 1433 Old 06-15-2008, 01:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ra004e View Post

I've found with noise reduction on a setting of low, that sharpness at 50 helps restore a little detail the noise reduction takes away, IMO the noise reduction on this set is quite awesome and really helps with eliminating excessive film grain when viewing BR or HD broadcasts that have a bit noise in them.

I will give it a try. Let me ask you, since you have turned on noise reduction, do you notice any increase in blur?

52" Samsung 750, finally satisfaction
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post #108 of 1433 Old 06-15-2008, 01:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by studdad View Post

I will give it a try. Let me ask you, since you have turned on noise reduction, do you notice any increase in blur?

I have noticed no increase in blur, I will say I have not needed to go above noise reduction setting of low. So I can only speak of lack of blur at that setting.
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post #109 of 1433 Old 06-15-2008, 05:41 PM
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By any chance does anyone know what "FAN: ERR" means in the service menu? This line is in the "stats" box off to the side of the service menu. I would think it would mean "ERROR" but I'd like to get a more knowledgeable opinion before I get worried.

Also, what do other people's 750s say after "FAN: ???" in this stats box. I'm curious..

Another thing, why does the TV always lose the "Settings" when I go into the service menu and then turn my set off? What I mean is.. after I spend an hour adjusting everything in the Video menu.. all the picture settings, detailed settings, etc.. when I go into the service menu and don't even change a thing when I turn my TV off and then back on all the previous adjustments I made in the Video menu (i.e. all the "Movie" adjustments on all the inputs) are complete lost and I need to re-adjust everything all over again! This is VERY annoying. I mean I didn't even change anything in the service menu! What gives? Is there a proper way to exit the service menu aside from just turning my set off or something? Can someone please give me a lesson in service menu usage.

Thank you.
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post #110 of 1433 Old 06-15-2008, 05:59 PM
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Originally Posted by pcmike View Post

By any chance does anyone know what "FAN: ERR" means in the service menu? This line is in the "stats" box off to the side of the service menu. I would think it would mean "ERROR" but I'd like to get a more knowledgeable opinion before I get worried.

Also, what do other people's 750s say after "FAN: ???" in this stats box. I'm curious..

Another thing, why does the TV always lose the "Settings" when I go into the service menu and then turn my set off? What I mean is.. after I spend an hour adjusting everything in the Video menu.. all the picture settings, detailed settings, etc.. when I go into the service menu and don't even change a thing when I turn my TV off and then back on all the previous adjustments I made in the Video menu (i.e. all the "Movie" adjustments on all the inputs) are complete lost and I need to re-adjust everything all over again! This is VERY annoying. I mean I didn't even change anything in the service menu! What gives? Is there a proper way to exit the service menu aside from just turning my set off or something? Can someone please give me a lesson in service menu usage.

Thank you.

on any Sammy I've gone into service menu including my older HD CRT, it has always reset my user settings, just my experience. I've seen that FAN ERR on a 650 I was in it's service menu.
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post #111 of 1433 Old 06-15-2008, 06:38 PM
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ra004e,

Does your 750 not have the "FAN: ERR" line when you go into it's service menu?
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post #112 of 1433 Old 06-15-2008, 07:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pcmike View Post

ra004e,

Does your 750 not have the "FAN: ERR" line when you go into it's service menu?

Sorry I can't remember, I want to say yes but not sure, have just set the calibration settings up from zerog6 and been loving that over the weekend. If you don't get an answer over next couple of days, I'm heading out of town and will go in service menu and let you know before I go. I don't think it's much of an issues as the 650 had that error and never had an issue, I suspect Sammy might have added fan control in firmware, but never ended up needing to add one, on BL setting of 4/5 I really can't believe how little heat this set produces. Again I'm just speculating on the fan thing as I have no way of confirming this. That being said there is a 650 service manual floating around the 650, you thread might want to grab that and see if anything come up there. I'll keep an eye on this thread over next few days, If you don't have an answer by then I'll check out my service menu and let you know.
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post #113 of 1433 Old 06-15-2008, 07:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zerog6 View Post

Yeah that's one thing I really can't make out. The Gamma curves just don't make sense. I don't know if it's the Spyder2, or if it was my inexperience. But after more and more time doing it, I figured it could be the spyder2 that doesn't measure gamma very well. Using the Spyder2 In order for me to get a 2.2 gamma curve, I have to turn gamma all the way down to -3 and lower the brightness even further. Doing that of course completely crushed the blacks, I couldn't even see the 4% black bars in the test patterns. So now i've settled on just eye-balling the brightness and gamma, which isn't that big a deal, it's probably the only thing they say is pretty accurate just by sight. If I measure it, my average gamma is 2.1.

I wanted to test the Contrast Ratio, but neither the DVE nor the AVS discs have a checkerboard pattern that you need to get the measurements

Later on when I get some free cash i'll re-sell the spyder2 and get myself an i1

interesting because when I used a spyder2 on my 5271 I also ended up getting the same crushed blacks, just like you. For brightness, at least on the 71 series, the first click where you can't tell a black screen is getting in any darker is one too many, that matches up with what eyeballing IRE bars tells. As for gamma, that's a bit hard to eyeball, but do what you can, or KJ or perhaps even myself may get some gamma settings posted (however, the sets, tentatively do appear to vary a little set to set).


interesting to see how my X94 probe does, so far I've only gotten to try it on a 244T, it certainly did the gamma differently than the spyder2 did, this monitor is very different than the 71 or 7 series though.
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post #114 of 1433 Old 06-15-2008, 08:07 PM
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hmm why is the CIE chart so off?
red looks farther off than on the 71 and green, is closer, but now it looks undersaturated? Does the CMS not really work all that well? Wouldn't call it worse, but is it really much better than the 71 at all??

OTOH, you seemed to get 1300-1500 CR with your 71 and now you get 1800-2000 so I guess the CR really is 40% better?! (unless your 71 was poor copy). Do you think the CR increase is real? 40% is a pretty nice sounding improvement.

What do you think of the display, forgetting hard data? How does it compare to your 71 series?
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post #115 of 1433 Old 06-15-2008, 08:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ra004e View Post

I've found with noise reduction on a setting of low, that sharpness at 50 helps restore a little detail the noise reduction takes away, IMO the noise reduction on this set is quite awesome and really helps with eliminating excessive film grain when viewing BR or HD broadcasts that have a bit noise in them.

but that film grain is supposed to be there and by using DNR and then adding sharpness you are making stuff a little plasticky and then adding sharpening artifacts.

anyway to each their own but I 100% always have both settings to 0.
If you view a computer desktop, you can see what damage they do too if not zero.
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post #116 of 1433 Old 06-15-2008, 11:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by skibum5000 View Post

hmm why is the CIE chart so off?
red looks farther off than on the 71 and green, is closer, but now it looks undersaturated? Does the CMS not really work all that well? Wouldn't call it worse, but is it really much better than the 71 at all??

OTOH, you seemed to get 1300-1500 CR with your 71 and now you get 1800-2000 so I guess the CR really is 40% better?! (unless your 71 was poor copy). Do you think the CR increase is real? 40% is a pretty nice sounding improvement.

What do you think of the display, forgetting hard data? How does it compare to your 71 series?

I'm pretty sure he just hasn't finished setting it up. Here's one of mine: I've tried and tried, but I can't get enough green

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post #117 of 1433 Old 06-16-2008, 01:27 AM
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Originally Posted by kjgarrison View Post

H

For those that just want settings to play with:

Picture Options
Color tone - NORMAL.

Any reason you choose Color tone - Normal instead of Warm2?

I though Warm2 was the closest to 6500k right off the bat?
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post #118 of 1433 Old 06-16-2008, 05:00 AM
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Originally Posted by skibum5000 View Post

but that film grain is supposed to be there and by using DNR and then adding sharpness you are making stuff a little plasticky and then adding sharpening artifacts.

anyway to each their own but I 100% always have both settings to 0.
If you view a computer desktop, you can see what damage they do too if not zero.

I agree and usually leave the sharpness at 0, There are times when excessive film grain or noise can distract from viewing experience. I have not found the the plasticky look or sharpening artifacts when using low setting of DNR an turning sharpness up a little, I mentioned this because at times the DNR can be quite useful, but I think people think there are just set it and forget it on these sets even down to color calibration, and we can't forget how varied the sources are, even on Bluray or how bad compressed HD broadcast can be. I understand that we want to start with a proper reference, I've seen plenty of movie transfers where the the colorist got it completely wrong or they did not use right film stock ( and it wasn't for effect ) or what ever. After reading these threads there is a consensus to just turn DNR off, but I think it can be quite useful. Like you said to each their own and just wanted to add my experience that it might be useful for users at certain times.
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post #119 of 1433 Old 06-16-2008, 05:06 AM
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Sorry peeps if this thread of DNR speak does not belong here, I was just returning answers, I there are any probs I'll refer the comments to the 750 owners thread. Just let me know. Thanks
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post #120 of 1433 Old 06-16-2008, 08:41 AM
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Originally Posted by David Barteaux View Post

You have two settings for Blue in custom color space. What does this mean?

EDIT: It is a typo. I corrected it. Sorry.

I have two in the green space as well. It means that dialing in a little green moved the blue primary closer to spec. In the case of green dialing in a LOT of red moved the green primary closer to Rec709 CIE spec.

Mind you, this is only preliminary work. Maybe it is better to just leave the primaries as far "off" as they start out at. The chart is closer to spec, but it might not really look better.

This is one of the reasons I put these out there. So people can critique and those that have probes can measure. These sets are at least a little different though, so who knows whether my settings would a)look good to you and b)measure the same on your set as they do on mine.
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