Official LNxxA750 Calibration/Settings Thread - Page 5 - AVS Forum
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post #121 of 1433 Old 06-16-2008, 08:43 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by studdad View Post

Hey Bud, so you finally got your 750??? One questions before I give these settings a try. Why is Sharpness at 50? I know it does not do much with an HD signal, but with most sets it is down in the 0-20 range. Anything different with this set?

It is at 50 because that is where Samsung had it. I didn't change it because I don't see that any setting of sharpness changes anything (at least not with HD). But my wife watches some SD, and maybe there it would be useful.
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post #122 of 1433 Old 06-16-2008, 08:47 AM
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Has anyone utilized the Film mode function? This makes things look 3D I think based on the source. HD movies from DTV look AWESOME!! My settings are these:

Mode - MOVIE
Backlight - 7
Contrast - 87
Brightness - 40
Sharpness - 27
Color - 40
Tint - 50/50

Detailed Settings
Black Adjust medium
Dynamic Contrast OFF
Gamma - -2

Color Space - AUTO

Flesh Tone -1
Edge Enhancement - ON

White Balance
R- 25
G- 25
B- 25
R- 25
G- 25
B- 25

Picture Options
Color tone - NORMAL
Size 16:9
Digital NR medium
Hdmi black level NORMAL
Film Mode - AUTO
Auto Motion Plus - medium

Energy Saving OFF
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post #123 of 1433 Old 06-16-2008, 09:02 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by skibum5000 View Post

hmm why is the CIE chart so off?
red looks farther off than on the 71 and green, is closer, but now it looks undersaturated? Does the CMS not really work all that well? Wouldn't call it worse, but is it really much better than the 71 at all??

OTOH, you seemed to get 1300-1500 CR with your 71 and now you get 1800-2000 so I guess the CR really is 40% better?! (unless your 71 was poor copy). Do you think the CR increase is real? 40% is a pretty nice sounding improvement.

What do you think of the display, forgetting hard data? How does it compare to your 71 series?

I think the CR improvement is real.

With regards to the improvement in green, I don't know if it is better to move it to where it is or not. I know it is a smaller dE, so presumably it is "better".

When I said the colors could be adjusted with some limitations, I was talking about this issue with green mostly. The setting that moved green is increasing red in the part of the custom color menu involving green. Each of the 6 colors has adjustments that can be made in RGB, and these adjustments seem only to effect the one particular color. In other words by increasing the amount of red in green, the green primary moved closer, but the behavior of red on the other colors was not effected.

Overall I think the color flexibility of the 750 is much superior to the 71. The fact that the color adjustments in the 71 (My Color Control) had no effect is what got me a new 750 in fact. Not TBE or stutter. It is superior and much more complex. So there are probably a lot of "in between" settings that can be tried.

Blacks are better on the 750, as indicated by the better CR.

Clouding is a little more prominent on the 750, but only a little. I am waiting to get a feel for whether my set is average, worse, or better in this regard before I see about exchanging.

I think viewing angle on the 750 is not as good as the 71. My wife and I sit on a 3 person couch, and I notice more of a dropoff from the center position than I noticed with my 71. This is about 15 degrees, if memory serves.

Bottom line: Better blacks, better CR, better color management
More clouding, worse viewing angle
Motion blur about the same, but no TBE (although I havent done the acid test, namely the eagle chase in Planet Earth yet) I didn't get stutter with my 71 except maybe on ABC, TNT, and TBS. I have an episode of Lost on my DVR, and the place that stuttered with the 71 still stutters with the 750, and turning AMP off stops it. The same place doesn't stutter on my Sony HDTV CRT.
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post #124 of 1433 Old 06-16-2008, 09:05 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zerog6 View Post

I'm pretty sure he just hasn't finished setting it up. Here's one of mine: I've tried and tried, but I can't get enough green


That is great looking. What settings did you use for this?
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post #125 of 1433 Old 06-16-2008, 09:08 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wtfer View Post

Any reason you choose Color tone - Normal instead of Warm2?

I though Warm2 was the closest to 6500k right off the bat?

Well, I havent tested warm2 or even warm1 for that matter. My experience with my 71 is that these are just starting points, and when you adjust the grayscale you end up in the same place. Warm1 or 2 just means you need lower red offset and red gain; and higher blue offset/gain settings. (EDIT: assuming you want an overall color temp of 6500. Maybe there are other temps to calibrate to. I only know what little I know from Tom Huffman's postings. However, his calibration guidance is for sets with full CMS that can be made on spec)

Besides you are limited to Movie if you use any of the warms.

Still, I do plan to test them to see if there is some advantage.

None of the settings calibrate to anything even close to a good grayscale right off the bat. In my experience.
EDIT: I'll run a set of measurements for each temp setting at factory default settings and post the results here when I get a chance.
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post #126 of 1433 Old 06-16-2008, 10:57 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kjgarrison View Post

That is great looking. What settings did you use for this?

This is the custom color space i'm using right now: WARM-2
Color Red
Red: 49
Green: 0
Blue: 2
Color Green
Red: 32
Green: 55
Blue: 0
Color Blue
Red: 0
Green: 6
Blue: 74
Color Yellow
Red: 50
Green: 47
Blue: 0
Color Cyan
Red: 25
Green: 50
Blue: 50
Color Magenta
Red: 43
Green: 0
Blue: 67
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post #127 of 1433 Old 06-16-2008, 11:01 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kjgarrison View Post

Well, I havent tested warm2 or even warm1 for that matter. My experience with my 71 is that these are just starting points, and when you adjust the grayscale you end up in the same place. Warm1 or 2 just means you need lower red offset and red gain; and higher blue offset/gain settings. (EDIT: assuming you want an overall color temp of 6500. Maybe there are other temps to calibrate to. I only know what little I know from Tom Huffman's postings. However, his calibration guidance is for sets with full CMS that can be made on spec)

Besides you are limited to Movie if you use any of the warms.

Still, I do plan to test them to see if there is some advantage.

None of the settings calibrate to anything even close to a good grayscale right off the bat. In my experience.
EDIT: I'll run a set of measurements for each temp setting at factory default settings and post the results here when I get a chance.

On my set, I got a pretty good grayscale out of the box on Warm-1. dE was less than 15-10 on almost all IRE levels. Warm-2 did not have enough blue out of the box, however after calibration, Warm-2 was much more stable across the entire IRE range than Warm-1 was.
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post #128 of 1433 Old 06-16-2008, 11:36 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zerog6 View Post

On my set, I got a pretty good grayscale out of the box on Warm-1. dE was less than 15-10 on almost all IRE levels. Warm-2 did not have enough blue out of the box, however after calibration, Warm-2 was much more stable across the entire IRE range than Warm-1 was.


LOL Zero, you got me really confused. Now you use warm 2 with these new color space settings? Could you make a post with all your current settings so I know I have the right ones.

Thanks in advance
Mosh~~
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post #129 of 1433 Old 06-16-2008, 11:40 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zerog6 View Post

This is the custom color space i'm using right now: WARM-2
Color Red
Red: 49
Green: 0
Blue: 2
Color Green
Red: 32
Green: 55
Blue: 0
Color Blue
Red: 0
Green: 6
Blue: 74
Color Yellow
Red: 50
Green: 47
Blue: 0
Color Cyan
Red: 25
Green: 50
Blue: 50
Color Magenta
Red: 43
Green: 0
Blue: 67

What target luminance (Y) values did you use? Did you use "ideal" CIE, or did you use the adjusted Y values the Accupel calculator recommends?
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post #130 of 1433 Old 06-16-2008, 12:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ready2Mosh View Post

LOL Zero, you got me really confused. Now you use warm 2 with these new color space settings? Could you make a post with all your current settings so I know I have the right ones.

Thanks in advance
Mosh~~

Don't follow my current settings, stick with the older ones using Warm-1. My newer Warm-2 settings were all adjusted using the service menu, so I couldn't even tell you what to adjust in the regular user settings in order to get the same picture. Either way, the difference is something you probably won't be able to distinguish.
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post #131 of 1433 Old 06-16-2008, 01:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kjgarrison View Post

What target luminance (Y) values did you use? Did you use "ideal" CIE, or did you use the adjusted Y values the Accupel calculator recommends?

Well to start, I did adjust the Y of every color to the ideal settings according to what my 100% white was, which I set just over 59ftl. But afterwards then I adjusted the Y to give me the lowest dE possible for every color and get it to fall where they should be on the CIE chart.
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post #132 of 1433 Old 06-16-2008, 01:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zerog6 View Post

Well to start, I did adjust the Y of every color to the ideal settings according to what my 100% white was, which I set just over 59ftl. But afterwards then I adjusted the Y to give me the lowest dE possible for every color and get it to fall where they should be on the CIE chart.

Good. If you use ColorHCFR could you post the file(s)?
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post #133 of 1433 Old 06-16-2008, 02:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zerog6 View Post

I'm pretty sure he just hasn't finished setting it up. Here's one of mine: I've tried and tried, but I can't get enough green


still, not too bad! All the others (aside from green) look really good. Definitely better than the 71 series can do for sure.
My spyder2 also tended to show a larger discrpenacy on green than other colors compared to my X94 probe.
So perhaps in reality it's even better than that (and even if it is worse, it's still a good deal better than the 71 series).
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post #134 of 1433 Old 06-16-2008, 02:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kjgarrison View Post

I think the CR improvement is real.

With regards to the improvement in green, I don't know if it is better to move it to where it is or not. I know it is a smaller dE, so presumably it is "better".

When I said the colors could be adjusted with some limitations, I was talking about this issue with green mostly. The setting that moved green is increasing red in the part of the custom color menu involving green. Each of the 6 colors has adjustments that can be made in RGB, and these adjustments seem only to effect the one particular color. In other words by increasing the amount of red in green, the green primary moved closer, but the behavior of red on the other colors was not effected.

Overall I think the color flexibility of the 750 is much superior to the 71. The fact that the color adjustments in the 71 (My Color Control) had no effect is what got me a new 750 in fact. Not TBE or stutter. It is superior and much more complex. So there are probably a lot of "in between" settings that can be tried.

Blacks are better on the 750, as indicated by the better CR.

Clouding is a little more prominent on the 750, but only a little. I am waiting to get a feel for whether my set is average, worse, or better in this regard before I see about exchanging.

I think viewing angle on the 750 is not as good as the 71. My wife and I sit on a 3 person couch, and I notice more of a dropoff from the center position than I noticed with my 71. This is about 15 degrees, if memory serves.

Bottom line: Better blacks, better CR, better color management
More clouding, worse viewing angle
Motion blur about the same, but no TBE (although I havent done the acid test, namely the eagle chase in Planet Earth yet) I didn't get stutter with my 71 except maybe on ABC, TNT, and TBS. I have an episode of Lost on my DVR, and the place that stuttered with the 71 still stutters with the 750, and turning AMP off stops it. The same place doesn't stutter on my Sony HDTV CRT.

you don't feel that the slightly less glossy screen takes away from the looking through a window pop? I know a few claim this.

Of course, with minimal lighting on there might not be enough for it to scatter for it to make any difference, in which case, the better CR means it is simply a pure plus. And with tons of lighting it might help tone down reflections a little.
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post #135 of 1433 Old 06-16-2008, 03:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kjgarrison View Post
Good. If you use ColorHCFR could you post the file(s)?
there you go, if by any chance it gives you an error when you try to open it, just load colorhfcr first and then open it from in there.

 

Final3.zip 5.37109375k . file
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post #136 of 1433 Old 06-16-2008, 03:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by skibum5000 View Post

still, not too bad! All the others (aside from green) look really good. Definitely better than the 71 series can do for sure.
My spyder2 also tended to show a larger discrpenacy on green than other colors compared to my X94 probe.
So perhaps in reality it's even better than that (and even if it is worse, it's still a good deal better than the 71 series).

I don't know if it would work, but I was thinking of trying to simply raise the color setting to see if that gets green up there, and then I can just back off the green and blue. But I think it's just that there's too much blue in the green color space so it's not gonna really do anything.
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post #137 of 1433 Old 06-17-2008, 07:28 AM
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has any one seen "Oceans 13"? I ask because after spending 400$ (yes you can all go have a nice row at my stupidity for spending that$) I had some real weird issues with the reds and oranges...I mean their faces and clothes were all messed up and it si SO hard to describe....kind of like I just couldnt calm them down they were so bright and the point of sparkling and a major....IT JUST OVERTOOK THE WHOLE PICTURE!!

I have also noticed some pixelation with the AMP on medium...with HD sources...

I also have some blooming like fireworks on the bottom of the screen...what is the deal?

I am so worried tht this set needs to go back....
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post #138 of 1433 Old 06-17-2008, 07:34 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kjgarrison View Post


Mode - Standard
Backlight - your choice (calibrations were done with 8, but that is just to get tighter readings at the low light levels. BL does not change calibration, so if you want a brighter or darker picture use BL, not Contrast and Brightness)
Contrast - 89
Brightness - 44
Sharpness - 50
Color - 45
Tint - 50/50

Detailed Settings
Black Adjust OFF
Dynamic Contrast OFF
Gamma - 0

Color Space - CUSTOM
R R45
G R43 G49
B B6 B57
Y R50 G48
C R61 G55 B50
M R46 G9 B61

Hey kj,

I think the earlier individual was asking about that. Did you mean to a G or R infront of 6?

Thanks!
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post #139 of 1433 Old 06-17-2008, 10:52 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pauper View Post

has any one seen "Oceans 13"? I ask because after spending 400$ (yes you can all go have a nice row at my stupidity for spending that$) I had some real weird issues with the reds and oranges...I mean their faces and clothes were all messed up and it si SO hard to describe....kind of like I just couldnt calm them down they were so bright and the point of sparkling and a major....IT JUST OVERTOOK THE WHOLE PICTURE!!

I have also noticed some pixelation with the AMP on medium...with HD sources...

I also have some blooming like fireworks on the bottom of the screen...what is the deal?

I am so worried tht this set needs to go back....

Spent $400 on what?

The TV has a "Skin Tone" setting, you can try to adjust that to see if it helps.

The other questions would be better answered in the owners thread
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post #140 of 1433 Old 06-17-2008, 12:08 PM
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sorry mate...the calibration team that did the install charged $400 bucks to do their job.
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post #141 of 1433 Old 06-17-2008, 12:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pauper View Post

sorry mate...the calibration team that did the install charged $400 bucks to do their job.

You mean a ISF calibrator?
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post #142 of 1433 Old 06-17-2008, 01:11 PM
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I suppose..not sure what ISF means or what it does...
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post #143 of 1433 Old 06-17-2008, 07:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pauper View Post

I suppose..not sure what ISF means or what it does...

It's what they seem to call official, certified calibrators.
And they makes your Oceans 13 all wonky is what they do.

Wow, it's sad, but I don't really recall what the cinematography for that one looked like, some recent movies have used some hyper-saturation and other stuff though so it MIGHT just be the movie. The real question is what does other stuff look like? Stuff you now was not shot in some weird style.
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post #144 of 1433 Old 06-17-2008, 08:05 PM
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Does anyone know what the "Video_Judder" setting in the service menu does?
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post #145 of 1433 Old 06-17-2008, 08:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by skibum5000 View Post

you don't feel that the slightly less glossy screen takes away from the looking through a window pop? I know a few claim this.

Of course, with minimal lighting on there might not be enough for it to scatter for it to make any difference, in which case, the better CR means it is simply a pure plus. And with tons of lighting it might help tone down reflections a little.

I have a bright room, and if it is slightly less glossy, I didn't notice it.

The improved CR and black levels are the most noticeable. That and better colors.
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post #146 of 1433 Old 06-17-2008, 08:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cr0t3x View Post

Hey kj,

I think the earlier individual was asking about that. Did you mean to a G or R infront of 6?

Thanks!

Thanks for pointing this out. I totally missed it originally, and I missed his question. I've fixed the post

But it is G6


Apologies to all.
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post #147 of 1433 Old 06-17-2008, 08:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zerog6 View Post

there you go, if by any chance it gives you an error when you try to open it, just load colorhfcr first and then open it from in there.

Thanks. Your CIE is just amazing. You are so close to spec that the Y values are almost "perfect CIE" ratios compared to white Y even with Accupel calculations.

I am going to test your settings and see if I can get my red closer to CIE spec. Green too.

One thing I might suggest. Your contrast ratio is only 892:1 and gamma is 2.05. You didn't include any info about your contrast, brightness, gamma, HDMI Black settings, but I notice your 10%gray Y value is 2.090. Tom Huffman recommends that 10% gray Y should be adjusted with the Brightness control until it is 0.0063*100%white Y. For your white Y of 202.597, if your 10% gray Y was ~1.28 you would have a higher CR and gamma.

I know there are some issues with the Spyder probes in this regard, so maybe that's just not the correct value. For my 750 the brightness setting that gets there is 43-44 when contrast is set to 89.
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post #148 of 1433 Old 06-17-2008, 10:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kjgarrison View Post

Thanks. Your CIE is just amazing. You are so close to spec that the Y values are almost "perfect CIE" ratios compared to white Y even with Accupel calculations.

I am going to test your settings and see if I can get my red closer to CIE spec. Green too.

One thing I might suggest. Your contrast ratio is only 892:1 and gamma is 2.05. You didn't include any info about your contrast, brightness, gamma, HDMI Black settings, but I notice your 10%gray Y value is 2.090. Tom Huffman recommends that 10% gray Y should be adjusted with the Brightness control until it is 0.0063*100%white Y. For your white Y of 202.597, if your 10% gray Y was ~1.28 you would have a higher CR and gamma.

I know there are some issues with the Spyder probes in this regard, so maybe that's just not the correct value. For my 750 the brightness setting that gets there is 43-44 when contrast is set to 89.

Thanks for the notes

Yeah my biggest issue was getting those blacks. There was no way I could get close to the .0063 in the 10% white unless I turn gamma all the way down -3, but that crushes my blacks. So idk if it's just the spyder2 or what. I'm gonna keep trying but I think i'm just gonna have to get a better probe. And yeah my brightness was always at 43 and my contrast at 90 I believe.
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post #149 of 1433 Old 06-18-2008, 12:16 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kjgarrison View Post


One thing I might suggest. Your contrast ratio is only 892:1 and gamma is 2.05.


Yikes, one of the calibrators that did a Samsung xxA650 got well over 2000:1
I been using zerog6's settings & the color looks pretty damn good, but the shadow detail is incredibly bad.

Nowhere close to what my CRT is showing with the same content.
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post #150 of 1433 Old 06-18-2008, 06:58 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zerog6 View Post

Thanks for the notes

Yeah my biggest issue was getting those blacks. There was no way I could get close to the .0063 in the 10% white unless I turn gamma all the way down -3, but that crushes my blacks. So idk if it's just the spyder2 or what. I'm gonna keep trying but I think i'm just gonna have to get a better probe. And yeah my brightness was always at 43 and my contrast at 90 I believe.

Can't you get the 10% gray Y down where you want it with the brightness main control? Thats how Tom Huffman says to do it. Then you could leave your gamma alone.
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