Official LNxxA750 Calibration/Settings Thread - Page 8 - AVS Forum
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post #211 of 1433 Old 06-22-2008, 08:51 AM
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Originally Posted by milescortez View Post

Thanks....I think I'll calibrate by disc and then make some comparisons to your settings.

Any ideas which are the better Calibration Discs? I have the DVE HD Basics from JKP (Joe Kane Productions) any other recommendations?

Thanks again.

Yeah the DVE disc is probably the best and most used.
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post #212 of 1433 Old 06-23-2008, 07:34 PM
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Where is everyone?
Lol.
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post #213 of 1433 Old 06-23-2008, 10:12 PM
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Originally Posted by geezuz183 View Post

Where is everyone?
Lol.

Must be enjoying their sets. Wish I was home instead of out on the road watching a 20 inch phillips in a hotel room, lol.

52" Samsung 750, finally satisfaction
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post #214 of 1433 Old 06-23-2008, 10:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zerog6 View Post

Okay, here's everything, Read On I hope you have spare time, lol



Yup, the only thing you adjust in the SM is the grayscale and gamma/contrast/brightness, the primary colors are all adjusted with the user menu.



In the SM, Left and Right are essentially the same as hitting Enter, especially Right. Only Up and Down are the navigation buttons. If you want to go back, you have to hit the "return" button on the remote.



This was worded improperly I guess by samsung. All of the Expert Settings, are not really Expert settings at all. The Expert settings are actually the User Level settings. So you can change the User Level settings in the SM. The reason you want to change those in the SM instead of the User Menu, is because whenever you go into the SM for any reason, your User Level settings will not reset to default every time.



This is specifically the "don't touch" part. What they are talking about, are calibration patterns that need to be displayed at a certain time and the TV will automatically adjust to those patterns. This is something that is only done at the factory when the TV is setup for the very first time. If you hit enter in this part, the TV will automatically start looking for certain patterns to be displayed, and if they're not, the entire TV configuration will go out of whack.



On to the hardcore stuff, put your gloves on.

Hit the "Mute-1-8-2-Power" and go into the Service Menu.

Before you make any adjustments, you need to make sure the HDMI Black level is set correctly. Since it's a User Level setting, whenever you go into the SM, it will reset to Normal, so you have to go in every time and make sure to set it to Low. You'll notice the difference in dullness of the PQ immediately. So here's how.

You need to go into the "Options" menu, and at the top right, there's an option called Expert Settings. You need to turn that "On", otherwise the Expert Settings will be grayed out and you won't be able to do anything. Now remember, the "Expert Settings" are simply the exact User Level settings you have, so don't let the "Expert" throw you off. You'll see what I mean once you go through it.

Once you do that. Go to the "Expert Others" menu, and you'll see the HDMI Black Level setting there. So just switch it to where you see the picture get better. Don't pay attention to whether it says Normal, or Low, there's a glitch which sometimes it reads the opposite of what it's actually set to. So pay attention to the screen and not what it says. I'm sure you know what the correct setting for HDMI Black Level is supposed to look like. So once you set that correctly then go back to the main menu.

Now, there's 2 main sub-menus you can use, "White Balance", and "WB Movie". But in actuality, the only one you really need, is "WB Movie". White Balance is the general white balance for the tv, which are applied to every tv mode you have. Which really isn't necessary, because not all modes use the same White Balance anyway. So don't bother with that.

The main sub-menu you're going to use is "WB Movie". Go in the there, and turn that on, and put the Mode on "Movie". If you put the Mode to "Calibration" it will lock out the regular user level menu and you won't be able to change anything from the regular user menu. So put the Mode in "Movie". Then you can change the Color Tone to whatever you want. I set mine at Warm-1. Now from here, You'll see the following stuff:

Sub_Bright & Sub_Contrast
Gains and Offsets for each different Mode you select
And the User Level Menu settings at the end.

3 points
1. Grayscale will only have Red and Blue adjustments, i'm sure you know why, but just in case, Green isn't touched when you're adjusting the grayscale anyways, so there's no need to have it.
2. You can adjust either of the two Contrast and Brightness settings. Even simultaneously if you want, the Sub_ settings allow more fine tuning.
3. Movie Gamma is not the User level Gamma. It is the SM Gamma. The User Level Gamma is in the "expert settings".

So that's where you're going to do all the calibration adjustments "except the color space".

Now, after you've done the calibrations there, you do the following:

You need to go through, and change all the settings in the Expert Menus to match what you changed in the WB Movie menu. There are 2 exceptions that you don't need to match though

1. Grayscale: The Expert Settings don't have the same grayscale. "The Expert Grayscale, aka User Level Grayscale, you "Do Not" touch, you leave those at the default 25 for everything"

2. Gamma: Kind of like grayscale, they don't have the same Gamma parameters, but you can change it to whatever you want, so you don't have to match them.

Now you can go ahead and start adjusting the color space. You can do 2 things.

1. Calibrate the color space in the regular user menu. However If you do it this way, whenever you want to go back into the SM, the color space settings will reset back to default.
2. Calibrate the color space in the SM. This way, the color space will not reset to default and will always be saved.

You can do #1, so I'll just show you how to do #2.

So after you matched the User Level Settings, then you go into the "Expert Color Space" and do the color space calibration there.

Then when you're done, do the following, which is gonna sound weird, lol. Go back into the WB Movie menu, and change any setting you want, and then put it back to where it was before. I know the reason for it, but I don't know how to explain it well, lol. Hopefully you'll find out why when you're doing your stuff in there. If not just let me know and i'll try to explain it.

Now you're almost done, Last thing you need to, is copy all the settings to every source you have. This is very easy, just hit the "source" button once on your remote, and it will automatically change. Then just go through each of them copying the settings. Remember about the HDMI Black Level, and at the end to do the weird thing I metioned, for every source!

2 points
1. Whatever source you have hooked up, make sure you turn it on and play something in the mean time.
2. I don't remember if this has to be done, but just in case. Check that you also don't have to copy the settings between a 720/1080 source. So for your cable or stb box, switch the channel to something in 720 and then 1080 to make sure everything matches.

That's all, you're done, now just turn the TV off, and turn it back on. Go through the menus, go through all your sources. Make sure everything is where it's supposed to be. AND ENJOY!!

Wow! Thanks.

How did you learn all this?

btw, I missed this post 3 days ago for some reason

A lot to absorb. A lot.

also, since you can do everything in User menu that you do in SM, why go into SM? My main need is to fix red and green primaries hue/saturation problems.
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post #215 of 1433 Old 06-23-2008, 10:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zerog6 View Post

kjgarrison:

Since you have the service manual, would you mind checking for me if it explains what the "7.5 IRE" settings in the SM are for? I've been curious about that for a while and haven't had any luck searching.

It doesn't say anything about what it is for or how to use/adjust it. It only shows that it is in the SM.

No help, really.

But it apparently has something to do with analog source material. check this post out
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...89#post4969789
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post #216 of 1433 Old 06-23-2008, 11:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kjgarrison View Post

Wow! Thanks.

How did you learn all this?

btw, I missed this post 3 days ago for some reason

A lot to absorb. A lot.

also, since you can do everything in User menu that you do in SM, why go into SM? My main need is to fix red and green primaries hue/saturation problems.

I just learned it from trial and error in the SM.

Quote:
Originally Posted by kjgarrison View Post

It doesn't say anything about what it is for or how to use/adjust it. It only shows that it is in the SM.

No help, really.

But it apparently has something to do with analog source material. check this post out
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...89#post4969789

Got it, I understood what they're talking about. Yeah the 7.5 IRE option then is only used for non-hd analog sources, and I believe only with CRT TV's. Thanks for the link

In the end the SM is the better option to calibrate your white balance/brightness/contrast/gamma, because the values have a lot more range so you can fine tune it a bit better. But yeah, if your trying to adjust colors, then there's no need whatsoever to go into the SM.
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post #217 of 1433 Old 06-23-2008, 11:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zerog6 View Post

I just learned it from trial and error in the SM.



Got it, I understood what they're talking about. Yeah the 7.5 IRE option then is only used for non-hd analog sources, and I believe only with CRT TV's. Thanks for the link

In the end the SM is the better option to calibrate your white balance/brightness/contrast/gamma, because the values have a lot more range so you can fine tune it a bit better. But yeah, if your trying to adjust colors, then there's no need whatsoever to go into the SM.

Trial and error

You're a brave man!

Fine tune? Many times when doing a grayscale I see that I need a little bit more blue or red, but just one tick higher and it is too much. Are you saying that the incremental changes in offsets and gains are smaller?
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post #218 of 1433 Old 06-24-2008, 09:53 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kjgarrison View Post

Trial and error

You're a brave man!

Fine tune? Many times when doing a grayscale I see that I need a little bit more blue or red, but just one tick higher and it is too much. Are you saying that the incremental changes in offsets and gains are smaller?

Well thankfully I didn't suffer any "errors" lol.

Yeah that's exactly what I mean. In the user menu you have what, 25 points of adjustment for each gain/offset, well in the service menu, you have about 250 points of adjustment for each gain/offset. So every point you move up and down in the SM, the incremental change is significantly less. So you can always get the exact xy for any IRE level you want.
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post #219 of 1433 Old 06-24-2008, 10:24 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zerog6 View Post

Well thankfully I didn't suffer any "errors" lol.

Yeah that's exactly what I mean. In the user menu you have what, 25 points of adjustment for each gain/offset, well in the service menu, you have about 250 points of adjustment for each gain/offset. So every point you move up and down in the SM, the incremental change is significantly less. So you can always get the exact xy for any IRE level you want.

Excellent.

When you work in SM, is it otherwise just like UM? I mean does the blu-ray DVD display and does the adjustment bar get out of the way so you can adjust in real time?
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post #220 of 1433 Old 06-24-2008, 12:25 PM
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I had the pleasure of having umr/Jeff Meier/AccuCal calibrate my 46a750 last night. The results are simply jaw dropping. The colors are richer, fleshtones look correct, and I did not expect the level of increase that was achieved in both the black levels and the detail. Even standard DVD looks better than it did.

Jeff is very professional, highly knowledgeable, and also fun to hang out with. He also made significant improvements on my audio system. I highly recommend his services.

I'm posting the pre and post plots from the calibration.

 

AccuCal Calibration Report.pdf 413.5166015625k . file

Back off man, I'm a scientist.
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post #221 of 1433 Old 06-24-2008, 02:27 PM
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Just a little tip.

I did a Factory Reset in the service menu & I noticed the Gamma went from off to being 0.95 by default in the OptionByte menu.

I didn't write them down, but it went something like this:

Off 0.95 0.85 0.80 070 (with each step getting more gamma) something & then like it kept on going with different letter/numbers LN18 LN20 LN 22 or something (with each step getting less gamma).
I'll check again later today.


Maybe those things can add more shadow detail/more accurate gamma than the one in the user menu?
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post #222 of 1433 Old 06-24-2008, 02:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sharkcohen View Post

I had the pleasure of having umr/Jeff Meier/AccuCal calibrate my 46a750 last night. The results are simply jaw dropping. The colors are richer, fleshtones look correct, and I did not expect the level of increase that was achieved in both the black levels and the detail. Even standard DVD looks better than it did.

Jeff is very professional, highly knowledgeable, and also fun to hang out with. He also made significant improvements on my audio system. I highly recommend his services.

I'm posting the pre and post plots from the calibration.

Care to share your settings from the main menu?
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post #223 of 1433 Old 06-24-2008, 02:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tiger3p View Post

Care to share your settings from the main menu?

Consumer LCDs have a great degree of variance. I find these calibration threads entertaining, but other peoples' settings are really of no value. You should either get a good calibration disc and do your own settings to the limits you can with a disc, or get a professional calibration by someone who knows what they are doing.

Back off man, I'm a scientist.
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post #224 of 1433 Old 06-24-2008, 02:58 PM
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Originally Posted by studdad View Post

Must be enjoying their sets. Wish I was home instead of out on the road watching a 20 inch phillips in a hotel room, lol.

Lol.. yeah.
I can understand that.
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post #225 of 1433 Old 06-24-2008, 06:15 PM
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Originally Posted by sharkcohen View Post

Consumer LCDs have a great degree of variance. I find these calibration threads entertaining, but other peoples' settings are really of no value. You should either get a good calibration disc and do your own settings to the limits you can with a disc, or get a professional calibration by someone who knows what they are doing.

Guess that means no...lol
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post #226 of 1433 Old 06-24-2008, 07:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wtfer View Post

Just a little tip.

I did a Factory Reset in the service menu & I noticed the Gamma went from off to being 0.95 by default in the OptionByte menu.

I didn't write them down, but it went something like this:

Off 0.95 0.85 0.80 070 (with each step getting more gamma) something & then like it kept on going with different letter/numbers LN18 LN20 LN 22 or something (with each step getting less gamma).
I'll check again later today.


Maybe those things can add more shadow detail/more accurate gamma than the one in the user menu?

It's pretty much the general base Gamma setting of the TV. Instead of the Gamma going from -3 to 3 in the user menu, that gamma in the SM goes from off to .95, and then even higher from M1-M4. But they have the same effect.

If you go to the "WB Movie" menu in the SM, you'll see the same Gamma values, it should be at M1 which is the default middle setting for Gamma.
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post #227 of 1433 Old 06-24-2008, 07:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kjgarrison View Post

Excellent.

When you work in SM, is it otherwise just like UM? I mean does the blu-ray DVD display and does the adjustment bar get out of the way so you can adjust in real time?

Yes it does, I mentioned it in the write-up I just did, you might of looked it over. It's actually better in the SM than the UM when it comes to that. You'll see if you try it out.
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post #228 of 1433 Old 06-25-2008, 07:48 AM
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zerog6,

What are your WB settings for the UM? Unless I over looked them the latest settings you posted after going into the SM didnt show them.

Thanks
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post #229 of 1433 Old 06-25-2008, 08:49 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by luvnhateSony View Post

zerog6,

What are your WB settings for the UM? Unless I over looked them the latest settings you posted after going into the SM didnt show them.

Thanks

If you're adjusting the WB in the service menu, then you have to leave the WB in the user menu at the default 25 for every setting. So that's what I have it at.
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post #230 of 1433 Old 06-25-2008, 09:03 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zerog6 View Post

If you're adjusting the WB in the service menu, then you have to leave the WB in the user menu at the default 25 for every setting. So that's what I have it at.

Since you do your WB adjustments in SM in the Movie Mode, what happens with Standard Mode?
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post #231 of 1433 Old 06-25-2008, 09:27 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kjgarrison View Post

Since you do your WB adjustments in SM in the Movie Mode, what happens with Standard Mode?

The standard mode doesn't change. Those are only for Movie mode. If you want to change the WB of standard mode, you need to make the adjustments in the service menu "White Balance" options instead of "WB Movie". But then that affects the WB Movie also.
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post #232 of 1433 Old 06-25-2008, 09:38 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zerog6 View Post

The standard mode doesn't change. Those are only for Movie mode. If you want to change the WB of standard mode, you need to make the adjustments in the service menu "White Balance" options instead of "WB Movie". But then that affects the WB Movie also.

Thanks.

So can you do both? Do White Balance and have your Standard where you want it, and then go into WB Movie and adjust that separately?

Oh, and another question. You said that the adjustments in SM are finer for WB. Is that true for brightness settings also?
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post #233 of 1433 Old 06-25-2008, 11:23 AM
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Zerog6,
I've copied your settings but, I'm missing the sm wb settings. Can you share those?
Thanks.
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post #234 of 1433 Old 06-25-2008, 12:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kjgarrison View Post

Thanks.

So can you do both? Do White Balance and have your Standard where you want it, and then go into WB Movie and adjust that separately?

Oh, and another question. You said that the adjustments in SM are finer for WB. Is that true for brightness settings also?

Yeah you can do both. But it gets trickier, in the SM, the user level standard settings are in a sub-menu called "EPA Standard". So you have to set the color temprature mode you want in standard first. And then you go into the "White Balance" sub-menu and calibrate it their. And after that you have to go back into the "WB Movie" menu and re-calibrate that.

For the 2nd question, yes also. You can make finer adjustments to brightness/contrast/gamma.

Why is it that you would want to use standard mode though?
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post #235 of 1433 Old 06-25-2008, 03:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zerog6 View Post

If you're adjusting the WB in the service menu, then you have to leave the WB in the user menu at the default 25 for every setting. So that's what I have it at.

And if Im not adjusting the WB through the SM should I leave it at default 25 in the UM anyway with your latest settings of:

Warm-1
Backlight-4
Contrast-87
Brightness-44
Color-45
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post #236 of 1433 Old 06-25-2008, 05:17 PM
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zerog6, THANK YOU! I had been trying to get the colors right, and losing my mind in the process. Why this was such a headache, I don't know. I was good at tuning my CRT TV, but the LCD is a whole 'nother animal. Also didn't help that all I currently have are a THX Optimizer DVD and a couple test pictures on a USB stick (no blu-ray until the holidays). The HDTV & movie colors and depth levels are phenomenal now. I'm watching the Sox v. D-Backs game, and I feel like I'm standing on the field watching the game.
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post #237 of 1433 Old 06-25-2008, 07:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by luvnhateSony View Post

And if Im not adjusting the WB through the SM should I leave it at default 25 in the UM anyway with your latest settings of:

Warm-1
Backlight-4
Contrast-87
Brightness-44
Color-45

In that case you'd need to adjust them. Search the previous pages on what I had mine set at and try them out, then adjust them to your liking.
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post #238 of 1433 Old 06-25-2008, 07:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by geezuz183 View Post

Zerog6,
I've copied your settings but, I'm missing the sm wb settings. Can you share those?
Thanks.

Here you go:

R-Gain = 39
B-Gain = -69
R-Offset = 6
B-Offset = -10

Those are the settings in the "WB Movie" menu
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post #239 of 1433 Old 06-25-2008, 09:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zerog6 View Post

Yeah you can do both. But it gets trickier, in the SM, the user level standard settings are in a sub-menu called "EPA Standard". So you have to set the color temprature mode you want in standard first. And then you go into the "White Balance" sub-menu and calibrate it their. And after that you have to go back into the "WB Movie" menu and re-calibrate that.

For the 2nd question, yes also. You can make finer adjustments to brightness/contrast/gamma.

Why is it that you would want to use standard mode though?

Wait, which menu is that?






I ask because in the last screenshot, I can't adjust anything there. I tried & see nothing that can be altered there.
Maybe the A750 service menu is different from teh A650 SM?

Also about the gamma, I still can't help notice that most of the settings calibrated by tools lose a lot of shadown details.
cNet is the only site that had the Gamma at +3 & they still said that the Pioneer Kuro next to the Samsung still had better shadow detail.
I have to sorta agree as my CRT in the next room has 3 times as much shadow details compared to some of the settings I tried here.

Are they just not calibrating them wrong with having shadow details that are not suposed to be seen?

I can try upping the gamma in the OptionByte menu to really bring out the details if needed.
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post #240 of 1433 Old 06-25-2008, 10:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wtfer View Post

Wait, which menu is that?






I ask because in the last screenshot, I can't adjust anything there. I tried & see nothing that can be altered there.
Maybe the A750 service menu is different from teh A650 SM?

Also about the gamma, I still can't help notice that most of the settings calibrated by tools lose a lot of shadown details.
cNet is the only site that had the Gamma at +3 & they still said that the Pioneer Kuro next to the Samsung still had better shadow detail.
I have to sorta agree as my CRT in the next room has 3 times as much shadow details compared to some of the settings I tried here.

Are they just not calibrating them wrong with having shadow details that are not suposed to be seen?

I can try upping the gamma in the OptionByte menu to really bring out the details if needed.

The first menu in the picture is a no-no. That has to do with the range of values that are adjustable from the initial tv programming. You don't want to touch those.

The second menu is the general "White Balance", that's what you need to adjust to fix the white balance of the Standard Mode.

The third picture is the WB Movie. That's where you make all the adjustments for the Movie Mode which is where I did all of mine. From what I see in the pictures, you simply need to turn it on that's why you can't make any adjustments.

As far as the gamma goes, I don't really know, I can't say I don't have anything to compare it to.
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