Official LNxxA750 Calibration/Settings Thread - Page 9 - AVS Forum
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post #241 of 1433 Old 06-25-2008, 10:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zerog6 View Post


Why is it that you would want to use standard mode though?

When I have set up Movie and Standard with exactly the same settings (in UM, of course) there is a slight difference when I do A/B comparison, and that difference ususally favors Standard. I'd say the difference is related to better contrast. Maybe there is something in SM that explains it.

Thanks for all your help with SM navigation. Keep feeding this thread with it
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post #242 of 1433 Old 06-25-2008, 11:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zerog6 View Post

Here you go:

R-Gain = 39
B-Gain = -69
R-Offset = 6
B-Offset = -10

Those are the settings in the "WB Movie" menu

Thank you.
I will apply these settings tomorrow.
I am very pleased with part of your setting. Can't wait to see what they will look like with the added adjustments.
Thanks again.
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post #243 of 1433 Old 06-26-2008, 01:55 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zerog6 View Post

The third picture is the WB Movie. That's where you make all the adjustments for the Movie Mode which is where I did all of mine. From what I see in the pictures, you simply need to turn it on that's why you can't make any adjustments.

hmm I guess the A650's does have less options to tweak in the SM then.
I tried turning it to On & even to Dynamic & all the options were still greyed out.
I think someone said the same with the previous Samsung 71f series as well.
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post #244 of 1433 Old 06-26-2008, 06:33 AM
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Originally Posted by zerog6 View Post

In that case you'd need to adjust them. Search the previous pages on what I had mine set at and try them out, then adjust them to your liking.

Awesome, Thanks!
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post #245 of 1433 Old 06-26-2008, 06:51 AM
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so, ive been playing around with all the settings posted around here... i've done some tweaking and ended up with this primarily for my ps3 and 360.

by no means am i a pro... just goin with what my eyes and a little thx calibration disk, LOL.

Basic Settings
Mode Movie
Backlight 4
Contrast 87
Brightness 46
Sharpness 10
Color 45
Tint G50/R50

Detailed Settings
Black Adjust Off
Dynamic Contrast Low
Gamma -1
Color Space Auto
White Balance Using the CNET White Balance Table
Flesh Tone 0
Edge Enhancement Off
xvYCC Off

Picture Options
Color Tone Warm1
Size Just Scan
Digital NR Off
DNIe Off
HDMI Black Level Normal (make sure you set PS3 to RGB-Full) (you can also use Low but you have to set your PS3 to RGB-Limited) (for the the 360 set it too Reference Level Expanded and Low)
Film Mode Off
Blue Only Mode Off
AMP 120Hz Off

System Settings
Energy Saving Low

[he_who_dares_wins]-[sas]
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post #246 of 1433 Old 06-26-2008, 07:49 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wtfer View Post

hmm I guess the A650's does have less options to tweak in the SM then.
I tried turning it to On & even to Dynamic & all the options were still greyed out.
I think someone said the same with the previous Samsung 71f series as well.

Yeah in that case i don't know what to tell you. On the 750, I just turn it on, and then switch it to either dynamic/movie/calibration and everything is automatically adjustable. I guess the 650's don't allot that. So you'd have to change everything in the general "White Balance" menu if that's the case.
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post #247 of 1433 Old 06-26-2008, 11:18 PM
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Originally Posted by zerog6 View Post

On to the hardcore stuff, put your gloves on.

Hit the "Mute-1-8-2-Power" and go into the Service Menu.

Before you make any adjustments, you need to make sure the HDMI Black level is set correctly. Since it's a User Level setting, whenever you go into the SM, it will reset to Normal, so you have to go in every time and make sure to set it to Low. You'll notice the difference in dullness of the PQ immediately. So here's how.

You need to go into the "Options" menu, and at the top right, there's an option called Expert Settings. You need to turn that "On", otherwise the Expert Settings will be grayed out and you won't be able to do anything. Now remember, the "Expert Settings" are simply the exact User Level settings you have, so don't let the "Expert" throw you off. You'll see what I mean once you go through it.

Once you do that. Go to the "Expert Others" menu, and you'll see the HDMI Black Level setting there. So just switch it to where you see the picture get better. Don't pay attention to whether it says Normal, or Low, there's a glitch which sometimes it reads the opposite of what it's actually set to. So pay attention to the screen and not what it says. I'm sure you know what the correct setting for HDMI Black Level is supposed to look like. So once you set that correctly then go back to the main menu.

Now, there's 2 main sub-menus you can use, "White Balance", and "WB Movie". But in actuality, the only one you really need, is "WB Movie". White Balance is the general white balance for the tv, which are applied to every tv mode you have. Which really isn't necessary, because not all modes use the same White Balance anyway. So don't bother with that.

The main sub-menu you're going to use is "WB Movie". Go in the there, and turn that on, and put the Mode on "Movie". If you put the Mode to "Calibration" it will lock out the regular user level menu and you won't be able to change anything from the regular user menu. So put the Mode in "Movie". Then you can change the Color Tone to whatever you want. I set mine at Warm-1. Now from here, You'll see the following stuff:

Sub_Bright & Sub_Contrast
Gains and Offsets for each different Mode you select
And the User Level Menu settings at the end.

3 points
1. Grayscale will only have Red and Blue adjustments, i'm sure you know why, but just in case, Green isn't touched when you're adjusting the grayscale anyways, so there's no need to have it.
2. You can adjust either of the two Contrast and Brightness settings. Even simultaneously if you want, the Sub_ settings allow more fine tuning.
3. Movie Gamma is not the User level Gamma. It is the SM Gamma. The User Level Gamma is in the "expert settings".

So that's where you're going to do all the calibration adjustments "except the color space".

Now, after you've done the calibrations there, you do the following:

You need to go through, and change all the settings in the Expert Menus to match what you changed in the WB Movie menu. There are 2 exceptions that you don't need to match though

1. Grayscale: The Expert Settings don't have the same grayscale. "The Expert Grayscale, aka User Level Grayscale, you "Do Not" touch, you leave those at the default 25 for everything"

2. Gamma: Kind of like grayscale, they don't have the same Gamma parameters, but you can change it to whatever you want, so you don't have to match them.

Now you can go ahead and start adjusting the color space. You can do 2 things.

1. Calibrate the color space in the regular user menu. However If you do it this way, whenever you want to go back into the SM, the color space settings will reset back to default.
2. Calibrate the color space in the SM. This way, the color space will not reset to default and will always be saved.

You can do #1, so I'll just show you how to do #2.

So after you matched the User Level Settings, then you go into the "Expert Color Space" and do the color space calibration there.

Then when you're done, do the following, which is gonna sound weird, lol. Go back into the WB Movie menu, and change any setting you want, and then put it back to where it was before. I know the reason for it, but I don't know how to explain it well, lol. Hopefully you'll find out why when you're doing your stuff in there. If not just let me know and i'll try to explain it.

Now you're almost done, Last thing you need to, is copy all the settings to every source you have. This is very easy, just hit the "source" button once on your remote, and it will automatically change. Then just go through each of them copying the settings. Remember about the HDMI Black Level, and at the end to do the weird thing I metioned, for every source!

2 points
1. Whatever source you have hooked up, make sure you turn it on and play something in the mean time.
2. I don't remember if this has to be done, but just in case. Check that you also don't have to copy the settings between a 720/1080 source. So for your cable or stb box, switch the channel to something in 720 and then 1080 to make sure everything matches.

That's all, you're done, now just turn the TV off, and turn it back on. Go through the menus, go through all your sources. Make sure everything is where it's supposed to be. AND ENJOY!!

Thanks for being helpful, zero.

This is my first time trying to calibrate a tv myself...or even calibrate it period. I want to try your write up, but I just wanted to get a few things straight.

Does this process require any special equipment?

When you say "calibrate the color space," you're talking about using the settings in your earlier post correct?

Quote:


3 points
1. Grayscale will only have Red and Blue adjustments, i'm sure you know why, but just in case, Green isn't touched when you're adjusting the grayscale anyways, so there's no need to have it.
2. You can adjust either of the two Contrast and Brightness settings. Even simultaneously if you want, the Sub_ settings allow more fine tuning.
3. Movie Gamma is not the User level Gamma. It is the SM Gamma. The User Level Gamma is in the "expert settings".

So that's where you're going to do all the calibration adjustments "except the color space".

Now, after you've done the calibrations there, you do the following:

and do we do our own calibrations on this part, or are there specific settings here?
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post #248 of 1433 Old 06-27-2008, 07:31 AM
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Originally Posted by the dza View Post

Thanks for being helpful, zero.

This is my first time trying to calibrate a tv myself...or even calibrate it period. I want to try your write up, but I just wanted to get a few things straight.

Does this process require any special equipment?

When you say "calibrate the color space," you're talking about using the settings in your earlier post correct?



and do we do our own calibrations on this part, or are there specific settings here?


Hey dza,

If this is the first time your going to calibrate your TV, I stronly suggest not touching the service menu and first learn how to do in the regular user menu. As I mentioned earlier, there's almost zero difference between the user menu and the service menu because the user menu settings already have more than enough options to calibrate the TV with. The difference in picture quality is probably not something you're going to be able to see the difference with just your eyes.

I suggest you get your hands first on a calibration disc live DVE, and learn how to do everything from there. Afterwards you can get yourself a colorimeter along with calibration software and then start doing things a little more in depth.
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post #249 of 1433 Old 06-27-2008, 09:12 AM
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Originally Posted by zerog6 View Post

Hey dza,

If this is the first time your going to calibrate your TV, I stronly suggest not touching the service menu and first learn how to do in the regular user menu. As I mentioned earlier, there's almost zero difference between the user menu and the service menu because the user menu settings already have more than enough options to calibrate the TV with. The difference in picture quality is probably not something you're going to be able to see the difference with just your eyes.

I suggest you get your hands first on a calibration disc live DVE, and learn how to do everything from there. Afterwards you can get yourself a colorimeter along with calibration software and then start doing things a little more in depth.

Thanks for the advice. Do you have any settings that I can use when I calibrate through the regular user menu?
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post #250 of 1433 Old 06-27-2008, 12:05 PM
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Hey zerog6 & kjgarrison, could you guys check this site out & test your settings on it's calibration pictures:

http://www.lagom.nl/lcd-test/

I tried a few settings here & didn't get the contrast & black level's quite right from that site.
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post #251 of 1433 Old 06-27-2008, 01:00 PM
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Originally Posted by kjgarrison View Post

One thing I might suggest. Your contrast ratio is only 892:1 and gamma is 2.05.

I just did a quick run of the new X94 probe on my 5271 and my contrast ratio is suddenly 1700:1 . With the spyder2 it says 825:1 .

So I think the spyder2's are very bad at getting CR!

I bet he is like 1840:1 or so despite what his probe says.

I wonder if you had a bum xx71.... You kept getting like 1300:1 and at most 1500:1 and now the other guy and I are starting at 1600:1 and getting 1650-1700:1....

Or maybe none of the probes are all that accurate for CR so CR results maybe are onyl comparable to say +/-10-20% even with the better probes?
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post #252 of 1433 Old 06-27-2008, 03:48 PM
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Originally Posted by the dza View Post

Thanks for the advice. Do you have any settings that I can use when I calibrate through the regular user menu?

Check the first few pages of the thread, i posted everything earlier.
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post #253 of 1433 Old 06-27-2008, 03:58 PM
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Originally Posted by skibum5000 View Post

I just did a quick run of the new X94 probe on my 5271 and my contrast ratio is suddenly 1700:1 . With the spyder2 it says 825:1 .

So I think the spyder2's are very bad at getting CR!

I bet he is like 1840:1 or so despite what his probe says.

I wonder if you had a bum xx71.... You kept getting like 1300:1 and at most 1500:1 and now the other guy and I are starting at 1600:1 and getting 1650-1700:1....

Or maybe none of the probes are all that accurate for CR so CR results maybe are onyl comparable to say +/-10-20% even with the better probes?

Good thing thats the case. Here's one thing that confuses me, have you guys seen the cnet review and settings they posted of the 750. They have the gamma set at +3, i have no idea how they got a measurement to set it at that. I understand they have much better instruments to do thecalibrations, but a gamma of +3 for an lcd seems completely off to me.
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post #254 of 1433 Old 06-27-2008, 06:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zerog6 View Post

Good thing thats the case. Here's one thing that confuses me, have you guys seen the cnet review and settings they posted of the 750. They have the gamma set at +3, i have no idea how they got a measurement to set it at that. I understand they have much better instruments to do thecalibrations, but a gamma of +3 for an lcd seems completely off to me.

it does seem awfully high.

i'm kind of surprised that my X94 seems to say I need gamma +1 and not 0 on my 5271 (at first it was almost hinting at +2). I guess +1 is not too crazy, but yeah, i'm surprised by 1 so 3 seems way out there, not sure what to say.
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post #255 of 1433 Old 06-27-2008, 09:09 PM
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Originally Posted by skibum5000 View Post

it does seem awfully high.

i'm kind of surprised that my X94 seems to say I need gamma +1 and not 0 on my 5271 (at first it was almost hinting at +2). I guess +1 is not too crazy, but yeah, i'm surprised by 1 so 3 seems way out there, not sure what to say.

cnet also has the gamma of the 650 model at +3, so i dont know what they could be doing. I have no clue how they can get any kind of decent black depth with it like that.
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post #256 of 1433 Old 06-27-2008, 10:55 PM
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Originally Posted by the dza View Post

Thanks for the advice. Do you have any settings that I can use when I calibrate through the regular user menu?

You can try mine in post 163. They are all done in UM.

You will have to DL ColorHCFR to open the file. The settings are detailed in the Comments section.
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post #257 of 1433 Old 06-27-2008, 10:56 PM
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Originally Posted by wtfer View Post

Hey zerog6 & kjgarrison, could you guys check this site out & test your settings on it's calibration pictures:

http://www.lagom.nl/lcd-test/

I tried a few settings here & didn't get the contrast & black level's quite right from that site.

Sorry, I'm not set up with a PC.
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post #258 of 1433 Old 06-27-2008, 11:01 PM
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Originally Posted by skibum5000 View Post

I just did a quick run of the new X94 probe on my 5271 and my contrast ratio is suddenly 1700:1 . With the spyder2 it says 825:1 .

So I think the spyder2's are very bad at getting CR!

I bet he is like 1840:1 or so despite what his probe says.

I wonder if you had a bum xx71.... You kept getting like 1300:1 and at most 1500:1 and now the other guy and I are starting at 1600:1 and getting 1650-1700:1....

Or maybe none of the probes are all that accurate for CR so CR results maybe are onyl comparable to say +/-10-20% even with the better probes?

I was able to get CR that high with my 71; even higher but blacks would be crushed when I did. The most sensitive way to check that is with Near Black. In a dark room you can 'see' the difference between IRE 0 and IRE 1. So can the probe.

The 94 probes are supposed to be quite accurate. I know for one thing their readings are very consistent. To within one thousandth for the most part. Also take a reading on whatever you use for your black to calibrate the probe. Even after working for half an hour, if I take a reading on total blackness I get all zeros.
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post #259 of 1433 Old 06-28-2008, 11:32 AM
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Originally Posted by kjgarrison View Post

I was able to get CR that high with my 71; even higher but blacks would be crushed when I did. The most sensitive way to check that is with Near Black. In a dark room you can 'see' the difference between IRE 0 and IRE 1. So can the probe.

The 94 probes are supposed to be quite accurate. I know for one thing their readings are very consistent. To within one thousandth for the most part. Also take a reading on whatever you use for your black to calibrate the probe. Even after working for half an hour, if I take a reading on total blackness I get all zeros.

i can still get 1650:1 and distinguish 0 and 1

The sets, at least some, must vary then, as my calibration is still closer between my spyder2 and X94 for WB than it is between yours and mine both using the X94.

I had expected the sets to be more uniform. Perhaps each of our 71 sets weres outliers and in opposite directions? Almost a little disturbing that at least some can be so different. I mean not that it was that extreme visually but definitely enough to notice without too much trouble.

Although perhpas it could be the source differences? Nividia gfx card vs PS3. That would be even more disturbing though. A source should not be altering color balance, if either my gfx card or the PS3 is, that would be pretty sucky. I'm about to plug in an ATI card, I wonder if the color balance will shift at all.... I've been using the colorhcfr built-in PC charts, I would hope they use the same shades as on the disc you are using....
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post #260 of 1433 Old 06-28-2008, 01:19 PM
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Originally Posted by kjgarrison View Post

Sorry, I'm not set up with a PC.

No need to be on a PC for those tests.

You can just copy the images from http://www.lagom.nl/lcd-test/ to a usb stick, burn them to a DVD, transfer them to a Xbox 360 or view them online via PS3.

I can view all the boxes except the first one on the black test screen & the last one of the white screen test, no matter what settings I try on my Samsung.
Now on my CRT monitor, I see pretty much the exact same, the 1st black box & last white box are very hard to see. So I think I'm ok with that.

Black level test:
http://www.lagom.nl/lcd-test/img/blacktest.png
White saturation test:
http://www.lagom.nl/lcd-test/img/whitetest.png

With the contrast test though:
http://www.lagom.nl/lcd-test/img/colorbands.png
I'm having a very hard time getting each section to have a line between them, especially at the end section.


Grandent is also very hard to get right:
http://www.lagom.nl/lcd-test/img/gradient-h.png
I get color banding no matter what on the dark section of the bars, while the white sections are perfect. Now again, on my CRT monitor it is displayed perfectly.
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post #261 of 1433 Old 06-28-2008, 04:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wtfer View Post

No need to be on a PC for those tests.

You can just copy the images from http://www.lagom.nl/lcd-test/ to a usb stick, burn them to a DVD, transfer them to a Xbox 360 or view them online via PS3.

I can view all the boxes except the first one on the black test screen & the last one of the white screen test, no matter what settings I try on my Samsung.
Now on my CRT monitor, I see pretty much the exact same, the 1st black box & last white box are very hard to see. So I think I'm ok with that.

Black level test:
http://www.lagom.nl/lcd-test/img/blacktest.png
White saturation test:
http://www.lagom.nl/lcd-test/img/whitetest.png

With the contrast test though:
http://www.lagom.nl/lcd-test/img/colorbands.png
I'm having a very hard time getting each section to have a line between them, especially at the end section.


Grandent is also very hard to get right:
http://www.lagom.nl/lcd-test/img/gradient-h.png
I get color banding no matter what on the dark section of the bars, while the white sections are perfect. Now again, on my CRT monitor it is displayed perfectly.

Hmmm... a USB stick you say.

Shouldn't I be able to plug the USB into the TV and not go through all those intermediary steps?
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post #262 of 1433 Old 06-28-2008, 04:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wtfer View Post

No need to be on a PC for those tests.

You can just copy the images from http://www.lagom.nl/lcd-test/ to a usb stick, burn them to a DVD, transfer them to a Xbox 360 or view them online via PS3.

I can view all the boxes except the first one on the black test screen & the last one of the white screen test, no matter what settings I try on my Samsung.
Now on my CRT monitor, I see pretty much the exact same, the 1st black box & last white box are very hard to see. So I think I'm ok with that.

Black level test:
http://www.lagom.nl/lcd-test/img/blacktest.png
White saturation test:
http://www.lagom.nl/lcd-test/img/whitetest.png

With the contrast test though:
http://www.lagom.nl/lcd-test/img/colorbands.png
I'm having a very hard time getting each section to have a line between them, especially at the end section.


Grandent is also very hard to get right:
http://www.lagom.nl/lcd-test/img/gradient-h.png
I get color banding no matter what on the dark section of the bars, while the white sections are perfect. Now again, on my CRT monitor it is displayed perfectly.

the patterns seem to be valid, everything checks out 100% on my 5271 as I have it calibrated (well, the gradient is not absolutely 100% utterly smooth but about as good as you can expect and nothing majorly bad showing up at all).
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post #263 of 1433 Old 06-28-2008, 09:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zerog6 View Post

Good thing thats the case. Here's one thing that confuses me, have you guys seen the cnet review and settings they posted of the 750. They have the gamma set at +3, i have no idea how they got a measurement to set it at that. I understand they have much better instruments to do thecalibrations, but a gamma of +3 for an lcd seems completely off to me.


oddly enough playing around more tonight with my TV (5271) my X94 probe actually seems to be implying I should gamma +2!
Maybe the 3 from CNET is not totally insane, if perhaps still a tad much?
very odd.

also a little disturbing is that the location of magenta varies depending upon whether I use COlorCHFR PC display screens or use PowerDVD8 with nvidia gfx card to display the test disk instead, cyan and yellow too although not quite as much.... should not be sources should never alter things. seems some play around....

i wonder what will happen when I try the ATI card instead.....
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post #264 of 1433 Old 06-28-2008, 09:31 PM
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Originally Posted by skibum5000 View Post

oddly enough playing around more tonight with my TV (5271) my X94 probe actually seems to be implying I should gamma +2!
Maybe the 3 from CNET is not totally insane, if perhaps still a tad much?
very odd.

also a little disturbing is that the location of magenta varies depending upon whether I use COlorCHFR PC display screens or use PowerDVD8 with nvidia gfx card to display the test disk instead, cyan and yellow too although not quite as much.... should not be sources should never alter things. seems some play around....

i wonder what will happen when I try the ATI card instead.....

Are you going to be getting a 750?
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post #265 of 1433 Old 06-28-2008, 10:14 PM
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Originally Posted by zerog6 View Post

Yeah in that case i don't know what to tell you. On the 750, I just turn it on, and then switch it to either dynamic/movie/calibration and everything is automatically adjustable. I guess the 650's don't allot that. So you'd have to change everything in the general "White Balance" menu if that's the case.

Strange, I checked & my new A650 with a different firmware is now allowing me to change those settings.
Just for the hell of it, I changed the gamma settings there to 0.85, which is the most gamma the TV will allow as a default point (I can still up the gamma more in the normal user menu).

The Gamma range goes like this:
Off, 0.98, 0.95 (Default), 0.93, 0.90, 0.88, 0.85 (the lower the more gamma is applied & more detail is shown).
Then it continues to: M1, M2, M3, M4, the higher the number the less gamma it displays than what it does with "Off".

With the 0.85 setting, I'm getting an insane amout of shadow detail. In fact I think it might be too much, even though it's not affecting the black levels.
Is there a such thing as too much details?


With the default SM gamma (0.95) & upping the UM gamma to +3, that is what I got in this scene in Silent Hill:
http://i27.tinypic.com/2eda6us.jpg

but with the SM gamma set to 0.85, I can see all the details on his cheek where the shadow is covered.


For people saying that gamma is supposed to be in the negative, remember cNet said that the Pioneer Kuro they were comparing the Samsung next to had more shadow detail even with the Samsung with +3 gamma.
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post #266 of 1433 Old 06-29-2008, 07:43 AM
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Originally Posted by wtfer View Post

Strange, I checked & my new A650 with a different firmware is now allowing me to change those settings.
Just for the hell of it, I changed the gamma settings there to 0.85, which is the most gamma the TV will allow as a default point (I can still up the gamma more in the normal user menu).

The Gamma range goes like this:
Off, 0.98, 0.95 (Default), 0.93, 0.90, 0.88, 0.85 (the lower the more gamma is applied & more detail is shown).
Then it continues to: M1, M2, M3, M4, the higher the number the less gamma it displays than what it does with "Off".

With the 0.85 setting, I'm getting an insane amout of shadow detail. In fact I think it might be too much, even though it's not affecting the black levels.
Is there a such thing as too much details?


With the default SM gamma (0.95) & upping the UM gamma to +3, that is what I got in this scene in Silent Hill:
http://i27.tinypic.com/2eda6us.jpg

but with the SM gamma set to 0.85, I can see all the details on his cheek where the shadow is covered.


For people saying that gamma is supposed to be in the negative, remember cNet said that the Pioneer Kuro they were comparing the Samsung next to had more shadow detail even with the Samsung with +3 gamma.

So when you change the gamma settings up or down, it doesn't affect your black levels? how about the contrast ratio's?

Because that's why I have mine at a negative # now. If I turn it up to a positive #, yeah I get much more shadow detail, but my black level stinks and it looks washed out.
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post #267 of 1433 Old 06-29-2008, 11:31 AM
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Originally Posted by kjgarrison View Post

Are you going to be getting a 750?

I have to see what happens. My 5271 definitely has some weird rendering artifacts, not sure if they will just fix it or ship a 650/750.
I've been away so much haven't gotten it handled all yet.
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post #268 of 1433 Old 06-29-2008, 04:42 PM
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Originally Posted by zerog6 View Post

So when you change the gamma settings up or down, it doesn't affect your black levels? how about the contrast ratio's?

Because that's why I have mine at a negative # now. If I turn it up to a positive #, yeah I get much more shadow detail, but my black level stinks and it looks washed out.

I noticed on the last two highest gamma settings in the service menu, that it does increase the black level a little, but that can be offset by lowering the backlight.
Like normally if I have the backlight at 10 & lower it to 0, I WILL lose a lot of fine details, but setting the gamma in the SM to that high, I still see all the details & than some.

Contrast does seem to be lowered though, I just don't know what the reference for shadow detail & good contrast is.
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post #269 of 1433 Old 06-29-2008, 09:55 PM
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Originally Posted by wtfer View Post

I noticed on the last two highest gamma settings in the service menu, that it does increase the black level a little, but that can be offset by lowering the backlight.
Like normally if I have the backlight at 10 & lower it to 0, I WILL lose a lot of fine details, but setting the gamma in the SM to that high, I still see all the details & than some.

Contrast does seem to be lowered though, I just don't know what the reference for shadow detail & good contrast is.

If I understand Tom Huffman's post on this, it is with a gamma of 2.2 - 2.5, with 2.2 being darker.

2.2 blacker black
2.5 better shadow detail

He says for a desired gamma of 2.2 set 10% gray window Y value at 0.0063 * 100% gray window Y value using the brightness.

I think different gamma settings just shift this, and if you then adjust brightness to get the 0.0063, you end up with the same gamma curve and the same calibrated measurements, but produced with different brightness (and gamma) settings.

I think these different gamma settings are like so many other adjustments that are available: Something you can adjust to make you subjectively like the picture better. But just like dynamic contrast, etc, these changes in gamma take the calibration away from specifications. (Unless, that is, you then re-do brightness to put it right back where it was.)

What I don't know and have not tested is whether different gamma settings might compensate for clipping in some way, and, after adjustment of brightness give an overall flatter gamma curve but with the same CR.
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post #270 of 1433 Old 06-29-2008, 10:18 PM
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Originally Posted by kjgarrison View Post

If I understand Tom Huffman's post on this, it is with a gamma of 2.2 - 2.5, with 2.2 being darker.

2.2 blacker black
2.5 better shadow detail

He says for a desired gamma of 2.2 set 10% gray window Y value at 0.0063 * 100% gray window Y value using the brightness.

I think different gamma settings just shift this, and if you then adjust brightness to get the 0.0063, you end up with the same gamma curve and the same calibrated measurements, but produced with different brightness (and gamma) settings.

I think these different gamma settings are like so many other adjustments that are available: Something you can adjust to make you subjectively like the picture better. But just like dynamic contrast, etc, these changes in gamma take the calibration away from specifications. (Unless, that is, you then re-do brightness to put it right back where it was.)

What I don't know and have not tested is whether different gamma settings might compensate for clipping in some way, and, after adjustment of brightness give an overall flatter gamma curve but with the same CR.

It's actually the other way around. The lower the gamma, the brighter the image. The higher the gamma, the darker the image.
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