Gaming on 120hz VS 60hz? - Page 2 - AVS Forum
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post #31 of 103 Old 08-29-2008, 02:36 AM
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Originally Posted by Franco240 View Post

Listen Tentacle, dont believe those that say there is no or little difference gaming on a 120hz lcd.

There is a VERY noticeable difference in clarity when playing games with moving images (almost all games) on a 120hz lcd with AMP on. We have both the PS3 and the 360.

We purchased 2 Samsung 750a's, 40 and 52in, to replace a Samsung 4092 and a Sony XBR3. These sets were no slouches on their own but get blown away by the Sammy 750 for our gaming enjoyment. Again, the biggest benefits are image clarity when moving and the black detail.

Hope this helps.

Wow franco... you discredit anyone elses claims that 120 hz makes little difference compared to new 60 hz tv with your own that it does because you compare one of the top of the line televisions of this year to models that were released in 2006? Obviously the difference of going from a 4092 sammy that was released in 2006 to a 40" and 52" a750 is going to be big. However, when I compare gaming to another of this years models such as the a550 that I own there is hardly any difference than what I see at my cousins who owns the 750 series. That would be like claiming everyone get the new intel quad cores, they are way better then the dual-cores of 06. Your claim they were no slouches then doesn't help, they get destroyed by nearly every tv on the market today. Just as in 2-3 years, the 750 you now own will get destroyyed by whatevers out.
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post #32 of 103 Old 08-29-2008, 03:19 AM
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120hz makes a noticeable and significant improvement to motion resolution on my set, but the input lag means that I can only play some games with 120hz mode on. RPGs work just fine with 120hz, but I have to turn it off to play Soul Calibur IV on my PS3.
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post #33 of 103 Old 08-29-2008, 05:01 AM
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post #34 of 103 Old 08-29-2008, 05:15 AM
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Originally Posted by grkm3 View Post

I dont know what all the fuss is about,just buy a tv that suits your budget,every one will play games just fine.We have a ps3 and xbox hooked up to a sammy 4681 and that tv dosnt have have the new crap thats out and it blows my mind every time we game on it.no 120mhz,no 24/p,no 4ms ect.

you do realise how hard it is for a new system to push 1080p is right?we have a few games that push the xbox and they run like crap,there is no lcd that would fix the slow frame rates the system cant push out.

If you want an lcd that is best for gaming just get one with the fastest responce time,forget 120mhz in games,the 360 in 1080p cant even push 30 fsp half the time,the only thing you will be doing is adding crap to the picture from all the processing.


something is mos def not right with your 360, I have the same TV as you 4681F, put it like this my 360 hooked up through component ( my TV accepts 1080p over component ) looks better than my PS3 hooked up through HDMI most of the time, WHY because of the scaler in the 360, while the PS3 lacks a scaler

the Xbox 360 has no problems running any game at 60fps that was coded to run at that framerate, and thats a fact
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post #35 of 103 Old 08-30-2008, 01:25 PM
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Actually the 8 series is way better than your 6 series. Doesn't suffer from the design flaw, is much thinner, has a better wiselink that allows you to view movies, is DLNA certified, built in memory, and has dnle pro.

Im not the one that posts crap. You do:

"i dont understand ,what could POSSIBLY make the picture BETTER on the 580 than the 550? the ultra clear panel? whats so special about it? 5,000 contrast ration wouldnt make much difference IMO"

"dudes, theres not much a difference between the a550 and the a540 PQ wise LOL so stop with the BS info please FFS. i seen both tvs and i own an A550 , amazing TV, NOT much a difference between the 2 lol, Ultra clear display? give me a break lol, in a year they'll come with a double ultra clear display (just with a different name of course ) , its a marketing thing ppl, relize it, u buy a new TV, next month a "BETTER" TV comes out lmao. come on.. again, not much difference PQ wise."

"get the Samsung LN46A550, it will be perfect for you, u probably dont need the A650 if u ask me LOL. and u comparing JVC with Samsung? dude.. come on. lol"

"just that the 650 has 120hz which ppl say is buggy and totaly not needed, a550 is unbeliveable man, no reason why u would buy an a650 over the a550 lol, unless u have money to burn then go ahead lol but if u want the same tv without the unneeded and buggy 120hz then get the a550, i have the 46 incher, its freaking awesome! top tv on the market right now in the price range for sure, aton of ppl buy it aswell, try to get the best deal possible awell u cant go wrong there mate. btw 40' was way too small for me, so i returned it and got my 46 incher instead, cant love it more, 52 would have been even BETTER but dont have the $$$$ to stash on a TV if u kno what i mean"

"u seem to ignore previous posts made by a knowledgeable member such as thebegining, 550 has a better ON SCREEN contrast ratio which is more important than Dyanmic CR. i regret buying my a550? NOT 1 bit rofl i paid an awesome price for this awesome tv and it blows anything u can give me for the price i paid BY FAR......... , talkin about buyer's remorse lol, im too smart to buy a "Ultra Clear Screen A550" by adding nearly 500$ for no reason, id go for the 650 instead and 540 superior? superior with WHAT exactly? what are you talking about eh? lol ill leave this discussion to thebegining if he even wants to keep on explaining becuase u obviously dont like listening to what more knowledgeable people tell u so why bother? lol."

"i have the A550, awesome TV man. i dont think i could get a BETTER tv in the price i got it for. i have the 46 incher, 52 is a bit expensive so ya.."

"ah yea man , SD looks like **** lol. theres no question about that and its like that on ANY HDTV!. i dont care what processor it has or whatever lol. but ya, this set is freakin amazing, i have the 46 incher myself, how big is ur A550, swizz?"

"120hz = TOTAL GIMMICK lmao nice way to waste your money , go for the LN40A550, best 60Hz on the market without any little gimmicks"

"Samsung LN46A550 best 60HZ TV on the Market, Period!"

"i wouldnt get the a650 lol, check the a650 thread, so many ppl are returning their sets because they dont like this and they dont like that.. oh well. but the a550 is the top of the line 60hz LCD HDTV at this moment with a very nice price tag, get the 46 incher and ur gooood"


That is all lamonsasa posting when he had the a550. Now that he has the a650 its become crap and his 650 is better then the high end 8 series even? I hope other people catch on man.
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post #36 of 103 Old 08-30-2008, 01:50 PM
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GET A LIFE buddy

8 series is not better than the 6 series PQ wise nor the A750, its just thinner, nobody needs wiselink or that better DLNA nor DNIE Pro since nobdoy uses DNIE anyway. Happy now?

lmao buying a TV just cuz its thinner ...... FOR WHAT reason

besides people dont seem to like TOC , its very noticable on the 8 series, also on the 7 series, not so much on the 6 series which gives the 6 series a plus in that part aswell.

Stop playing around diging in my posts and quoting me like a little kid lol.

i showed some of your posts to my friends on IM and you are hilarious dude
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post #37 of 103 Old 08-30-2008, 03:20 PM
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Originally Posted by lamonsasa View Post

GET A LIFE buddy

8 series is not better than the 6 series PQ wise nor the A750, its just thinner, nobody needs wiselink or that better DLNA nor DNIE Pro since nobdoy uses DNIE anyway. Happy now?

lmao buying a TV just cuz its thinner ...... FOR WHAT reason

besides people dont seem to like TOC , its very noticable on the 8 series, also on the 7 series, not so much on the 6 series which gives the 6 series a plus in that part aswell.

Stop playing around diging in my posts and quoting me like a little kid lol.

i showed some of your posts to my friends on IM and you are hilarious dude

the A650 has the most ugly red bezel in LCD panel history
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post #38 of 103 Old 08-30-2008, 03:37 PM
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Originally Posted by nomunk View Post

the A650 has the most ugly red bezel in LCD panel history

History? wow nice word to use lol

Thats your opinion and many other people's opinion aswell however i find the TV very sexy looking, red not too much visible but visible with the right lighting conditions, swiveling stand, glossy all around the TV, looks beautiful.

so do other A650 owners love the way it looks aswell, check amazon reviews or here on AVS aswell, i rather have this Frame rather than the frame of the A750 which has that design flaw that creates the awful Halo effect that samsung isnt willing to fix (and recall.. )

get the 8 series for the frame, that would be smart
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post #39 of 103 Old 08-30-2008, 04:10 PM
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Originally Posted by lamonsasa View Post

History? wow nice word to use lol

Thats your opinion and many other people's opinion aswell however i find the TV very sexy looking, red not too much visible but visible with the right lighting conditions, swiveling stand, glossy all around the TV, looks beautiful.

so do other A650 owners love the way it looks aswell, check amazon reviews or here on AVS aswell, i rather have this Frame rather than the frame of the A750 which has that design flaw that creates the awful Halo effect that samsung isnt willing to fix (and recall.. )

get the 8 series for the frame, that would be smart

hey could you please describe the design flaw and the halo affect of the a750, I keep hearing about this and just wanna know what exactly it is
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post #40 of 103 Old 08-30-2008, 04:16 PM
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Originally Posted by lamonsasa View Post

Faceless Rebel, i play soul calibur iv on the 360 with AMP on HIGH and its brilliant , i dont notice any lag at all..

Logical fallacy:

Just because you don't notice lag doesn't mean it's not there.

Because it is.
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post #41 of 103 Old 08-30-2008, 04:21 PM
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Well i seen the a750 @ Best buy here in manhatten, NY and there was actually a guy there looking at the a750 even tho he already bought one from amazon and we started talking, we had a little chitty chat you know, i asked him about the halo effect and he said that im right but its not very visible here at best buy since its so bright and that either way its not a big deal for him but he mentioned his wife didnt like that, however he said that when room is dark it gets visible.

Why didnt you check the A750 thread? there are many people that are very mad at that issue, its a FACT that the frame of the A750 has a design flaw and many owners called samsung however samsung does admit about the flaw but they cant do anything about it(actually the can, they just released the 8 Series which is the replacments for the A750, nothing new, same specs, just thinner and different design)

Its kindda sad and thats the reason why i didnt buy the A750 to begin with lol (the price difference was only $80), not that i even need the DLNA , wiselink or dnie pro as these are completely useless, common, who uses DNIE anyway i bet most if not all owners of these lcds dont even know their sets have these features OR how to use them properly anyway

Head over to the a750 thread munk, they explain it there, here i'll quote for u:

Quote:


The 'Halo' Effect: Some people have noticed that the clear surrounding of the 750 bezel acts as a sort of fiber optic transfer for the screen.

What this means, is that at certain angles, and in certain darker lighting conditions, the bezel will dimly light up with the colors that are on the screen. This appears somewhat like a 'halo' encircling the TV. Some people find this hugely distracting, others couldn't care less. It's up to you to see it and decide for yourself. This is a purely aesthetic effect as the result of the bezel design and has nothing to do with the electronic hardware.

Here's an example of the effect. Better pictures will be posted as they become available. Notice the glow on the top of the bezel. As said previously the presence of the effect is very dependant on lighting condition and viewing angle.

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post #42 of 103 Old 08-30-2008, 04:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Faceless Rebel View Post

Logical fallacy:

Just because you don't notice lag doesn't mean it's not there.

Because it is.

are u serious? if i dont notice it why should i care?? ur being funny man

we play guitar hero and rockband too.. no lag
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post #43 of 103 Old 08-30-2008, 05:16 PM
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skip replies starting with the letters 'Lamonasa'....
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post #44 of 103 Old 08-30-2008, 05:36 PM
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Originally Posted by umgill45 View Post

skip replies starting with the letters 'Lamonasa'....

+1

this dude is so funny. his posts are exactly like his previous on the a550. he must love those blinders...

also, just because one set has lots of lag doesn't mean they all have the same amount. logical fallacy, that is so funny, too.

there seems to be no lacking of expertise in this thread...rofl
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post #45 of 103 Old 08-30-2008, 07:54 PM
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Originally Posted by lamonsasa View Post

are u serious? if i dont notice it why should i care?? ur being funny man

we play guitar hero and rockband too.. no lag

You aren't qualified to make such comments, and listening to people like you caused me to buy one of these tv's and realize it has lag. Now I have to return it and get a plasma.
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post #46 of 103 Old 08-30-2008, 08:26 PM
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Originally Posted by rkuo View Post

You aren't qualified to make such comments, and listening to people like you caused me to buy one of these tv's and realize it has lag. Now I have to return it and get a plasma.

Do your research before getting a plasma, don't assume they're free of input lag. Even though they don't have LCD's motion blur, they're still digital TVs, and they still do a lot of video processing, which is what causes input lag in LCDs.
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post #47 of 103 Old 08-30-2008, 08:59 PM
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Originally Posted by rkuo View Post

You aren't qualified to make such comments, and listening to people like you caused me to buy one of these tv's and realize it has lag. Now I have to return it and get a plasma.


you arent qualified for saying i notice lag, i along with my family notice no lag, are you that big of a newbie using Composite cables or whatever other type of cable that ur using therfore u notice lag ?

Buddy go get a plasma, enjoy your BURN-IN lol, just remember that you had a great TV in your hands and you returned it,

Besides, since when do people buy HDTVs SOLEY on the recommandations they get forums, looks to me like u didnt do your research on LCD Technology and you ended up surprised, in technical terms, the A650 has lag, me not noticing it is something else, any TV has some kind of lag. even your beloved plasma that you are going to purchase. If you werent satisfied of the a650 i wonder what WILL satisfy you , oh well..

ENJOY!
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post #48 of 103 Old 08-30-2008, 10:49 PM
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Originally Posted by 42041 View Post

Do your research before getting a plasma, don't assume they're free of input lag. Even though they don't have LCD's motion blur, they're still digital TVs, and they still do a lot of video processing, which is what causes input lag in LCDs.

Unfortunately almost nobody measures input lag, and it's very hard to weed out the idiots (aka lamonsasa) from the people who can actually see it / feel it properly.

hdtvtest.co.uk comments favorably on the input lag situation with the Panasonic Vieras and other folks have commented well on the owners thread as well. Unfortunately it seems I can't take those comments at face value and the hdtvtest.co.uk review has no photographs to prove the lag measurements they made.
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post #49 of 103 Old 08-31-2008, 03:01 AM
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these 120hz samsung panels are laggy period. You won't notice it on most games unless you're really picky. Also i've noticed interlaced sources and lower resolutions have more lag on this set.

Game-mode & PC mode kill the lag, however PC is limited to 2 inputs and Game-mode sucks horribly since you cant adjust anything at all................
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post #50 of 103 Old 08-31-2008, 08:33 AM
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3 months ago we purchased 2 750's for home. We have 2 PS3s and an xbox 360 connected to them. I consider ourselves a gaming family as we also have 3 pcs built primarily for gaming. We have had gaming devices for over 20 years.

In MY experience with the Samsung 750, we have noticed little to no discernable lag while playing games on this set. It doesnt mean its not there, just that nobody has ever noticed or mentioned it. I would say we are pretty discriminating consumers.

To earlier poster, the madness i believe, who said the 550 and 750 are similar for gaming, i find that really hard to believe because in-store there was a HUGE difference in picture quality to my wife and I. Also, since the 550 is not a 120hz set, I find it hard to believe that it would hold the clarity that the 750 has for action gaming. We do not use gaming mode, but the standard mode at backlit 7 (we like our games bright using med AMP.

For us, 750 rocks for gaming. Period.
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post #51 of 103 Old 08-31-2008, 09:36 AM
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Originally Posted by the_madness View Post

actually the 8 series is way better than your 6 series. Doesn't suffer from the design flaw, is much thinner, has a better wiselink that allows you to view movies, is dlna certified, built in memory, and has dnle pro.

Im not the one that posts crap. You do:

"i dont understand ,what could possibly make the picture better on the 580 than the 550? The ultra clear panel? Whats so special about it? 5,000 contrast ration wouldnt make much difference imo"

"dudes, theres not much a difference between the a550 and the a540 pq wise lol so stop with the bs info please ffs. I seen both tvs and i own an a550 , amazing tv, not much a difference between the 2 lol, ultra clear display? Give me a break lol, in a year they'll come with a double ultra clear display (just with a different name of course ) , its a marketing thing ppl, relize it, u buy a new tv, next month a "better" tv comes out lmao. Come on.. Again, not much difference pq wise."

"get the samsung ln46a550, it will be perfect for you, u probably dont need the a650 if u ask me lol. And u comparing jvc with samsung? Dude.. Come on. Lol"

"just that the 650 has 120hz which ppl say is buggy and totaly not needed, a550 is unbeliveable man, no reason why u would buy an a650 over the a550 lol, unless u have money to burn then go ahead lol but if u want the same tv without the unneeded and buggy 120hz then get the a550, i have the 46 incher, its freaking awesome! Top tv on the market right now in the price range for sure, aton of ppl buy it aswell, try to get the best deal possible awell u cant go wrong there mate. Btw 40' was way too small for me, so i returned it and got my 46 incher instead, cant love it more, 52 would have been even better but dont have the $$$$ to stash on a tv if u kno what i mean"

"u seem to ignore previous posts made by a knowledgeable member such as thebegining, 550 has a better on screen contrast ratio which is more important than dyanmic cr. I regret buying my a550? Not 1 bit rofl i paid an awesome price for this awesome tv and it blows anything u can give me for the price i paid by far......... , talkin about buyer's remorse lol, im too smart to buy a "ultra clear screen a550" by adding nearly 500$ for no reason, id go for the 650 instead and 540 superior? Superior with what exactly? What are you talking about eh? Lol ill leave this discussion to thebegining if he even wants to keep on explaining becuase u obviously dont like listening to what more knowledgeable people tell u so why bother? Lol."

"i have the a550, awesome tv man. I dont think i could get a better tv in the price i got it for. I have the 46 incher, 52 is a bit expensive so ya.."

"ah yea man , sd looks like **** lol. Theres no question about that and its like that on any hdtv!. I dont care what processor it has or whatever lol. But ya, this set is freakin amazing, i have the 46 incher myself, how big is ur a550, swizz?"

"120hz = total gimmick lmao nice way to waste your money , go for the ln40a550, best 60hz on the market without any little gimmicks"

"samsung ln46a550 best 60hz tv on the market, period!"

"i wouldnt get the a650 lol, check the a650 thread, so many ppl are returning their sets because they dont like this and they dont like that.. Oh well. But the a550 is the top of the line 60hz lcd hdtv at this moment with a very nice price tag, get the 46 incher and ur gooood"


that is all lamonsasa posting when he had the a550. Now that he has the a650 its become crap and his 650 is better then the high end 8 series even? I hope other people catch on man.

very nice post 100% true.one tv is not that much better then the other one.
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post #52 of 103 Old 08-31-2008, 10:40 AM
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Originally Posted by lamonsasa View Post

are u serious? if i dont notice lag why should i care?? ur being funny man

You should care if you ever decide to play on line games that depend on fast reflexes. More than 30ms lag and you'll find that people you condisered to be your equal can now best you regularly.


Otherwise you can probably remain happy in your ignorance. I also found the_madness' post informative.
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post #53 of 103 Old 08-31-2008, 10:51 AM
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Originally Posted by Franco240 View Post

3 months ago we purchased 2 750's for home. We have 2 PS3s and an xbox 360 connected to them. I consider ourselves a gaming family as we also have 3 pcs built primarily for gaming. We have had gaming devices for over 20 years.

In MY experience with the Samsung 750, we have noticed little to no discernable lag while playing games on this set. It doesnt mean its not there, just that nobody has ever noticed or mentioned it. I would say we are pretty discriminating consumers.

I have no doubt the lag issue is tough to perceive for most players and that for your family it's totally fine. It takes me a while to wrap my head around it too...I need to calibrate the game to the TV and play a song for a bit to see where I'm hitting on average playing by ear relative to the notes coming down the screen.

However there also is no doubt that the input lag has a measurable effect on scores if you play fairly competitively. So if you define "discriminating" as loves to play games, then yes you are, but, at least in this respect, the fact you can't feel the difference by definition makes you "not discriminating", as the lag is definitely there and definitely affects play at a competitive level.

Anyway, complaining about this here is pretty pointless...I'm just venting. Just like when you walk into a store and people love the blown out dynamic settings on the TV's even though they are totally inaccurate, vague unjustified statements about input lag will be made and there's nothing anyone can do about it. I'm just frustrated that there isn't better data out there, b/c I'm basically taking a crapshoot on TV's unless I get lucky and someone actually measures the differences.
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post #54 of 103 Old 09-01-2008, 02:26 AM
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Franco... I didnt say that the 550 was as good as the 750. There is a reason your 750 series is more than $1000 over mine. The 750 has better blacks, better colors, a better processor etc... What I said was that you will find little to no difference in gaming with a new 60 hz set and 120 hz set. Granted the 120 hz would be somewhat better, but not much over this years 60 hz models. What i corrected you on was when you said that the reason it is better is because you noticed a difference between the 750 and your old 4092 which is close to 3 years old.
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post #55 of 103 Old 09-01-2008, 02:45 AM
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I have a 42" Vizio XVT, and one area where I'm 100% sure Smooth Motion makes a huge difference (when frames aren't jumping around anyway...) is Rock Band's scrolling lyrics. The text is a lot sharper with Smooth Motion set to high.

Anyone thinks the frame-jumping is fixable with a firmware upgrade?
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post #56 of 103 Old 09-01-2008, 04:52 AM
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I have the Panny TC-32LZ800. This set have a 120hz like technology y(motion focus black frame insertion) & use a motion adaptive comb filter(Interpolation 90hz 6.7ms).



The Panny LZ800 doesn't suffer from extra input lag by turning "on" the motion focus.

Here the video on youtube: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lbvreeOk7PA
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post #57 of 103 Old 09-01-2008, 06:44 AM
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Panasonic needs to make LCDs in the 40-50" range, then we'd have more choices than just ugly red Samsung or overpriced Sony.
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post #58 of 103 Old 09-01-2008, 06:52 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The_Madness View Post

Franco... I didnt say that the 550 was as good as the 750. There is a reason your 750 series is more than $1000 over mine. The 750 has better blacks, better colors, a better processor etc... What I said was that you will find little to no difference in gaming with a new 60 hz set and 120 hz set. Granted the 120 hz would be somewhat better, but not much over this years 60 hz models. What i corrected you on was when you said that the reason it is better is because you noticed a difference between the 750 and your old 4092 which is close to 3 years old.

you "corrected" him?, dude are you starting to tell people what they see now?

Btw i play FPS all the time online that require fast reflexes such as MGS4, COD4, Resistence and there is no lag lol
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post #59 of 103 Old 09-01-2008, 10:35 AM
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All this Samsung talk, please!!! Do yourself a favor and get the D64 series Sharp, best gaming LCD TV you can buy and costs less than the Sammy's too!
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post #60 of 103 Old 09-01-2008, 10:40 AM
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Input lag will be more noticable with offline gaming more than anything. As soon as you mention online gaming you are at the mercy of the server you are on. Once that happens I don't care what type of tv you have, if it is an overpacked server the lag will be horrible (I'm looking at you EA and NCAA football)
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