Official Sony KDL-XXZ4100 Owner's Thread - Page 16 - AVS Forum
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post #451 of 3520 Old 06-18-2008, 05:22 PM
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Originally Posted by Phrawst View Post

Hey guys I've been watching this thread for a little while now while I try to make up my mind on picking up a new tv. I am a 100% total noob when it comes to this stuff so all the info on here has been mega helpful.

Question regarding the sparkles:

I've gone to a couple sony styles here in the Toronto area. (fyi the Z is much hotter in piano black, found the silver disappointing IRL).

At the one store I actually got a pretty cool sales rep to talk to and I told him of the sparkle issue and he popped in Planet Earth on Blu Ray. During the sort of outer space opening sequence bit I did see a white sparkley type effect in the solid black shadow area cast over the earth. (So NO not a star in outer space).

The sales rep didn't see it so he backed up the disc and ran it again and the sparkle was there again in the exact same place and same time. We re ran it a bunch of times and the sparkle was there every time. He said he had never heard of the issue and was gonna look into it. Not to placate me, he actually was shocked.

So my question is: Is that typical that sparkles show up consistently at the same time and place like that when viewing material? Or was it an artifact in the video and not a spark at all?

My bonus question is:
46Z or 46XBR4? Or wait on the 46XBR6? Not much tv to watch in the summer anyways. But up here an XBR4 is $3099, an XBR5 is $3300, so.. does that mean the 46xbr6 is going to be even more?

Hey Phrawst, I'm in TO too. Which location was that good sales rep at? They are surprisingly hard to come by!

At BB today, I looked at a 40" Z4100 today showing an SD DVD and noticed some sparkles. I was a little surprised at how many I saw once you start looking for them, but they were only noticeable on dark/black scenes. The sales rep was surprised about them as well.

At a different store, I also saw the opening of Planet Earth on a 46W4100 and it showed a sparkle in the top right area of the screen (say 8" from the bezels).

I'm hoping it's a firmware issue as that would mean it's fixable, but why haven't we heard anything from Sony on this yet???
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post #452 of 3520 Old 06-18-2008, 07:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LuckyRob View Post

Hey Phrawst, I'm in TO too. Which location was that good sales rep at? They are surprisingly hard to come by!

At BB today, I looked at a 40" Z4100 today showing an SD DVD and noticed some sparkles. I was a little surprised at how many I saw once you start looking for them, but they were only noticeable on dark/black scenes. The sales rep was surprised about them as well.

At a different store, I also saw the opening of Planet Earth on a 46W4100 and it showed a sparkle in the top right area of the screen (say 8" from the bezels).

I'm hoping it's a firmware issue as that would mean it's fixable, but why haven't we heard anything from Sony on this yet???

The Sony Style I was referring to was the one in Sherway Gardens. I've gone to the one at Square one and the Heartland center as well. The guy at SQ1 is determined to sell me something, the employees at Heartland didn't even come up to me to ask if I needed help, then theres the guy at Sherway who actually stood there and messed with the tv.

Would really really love to know when the 46 xbr6 is coming out and how much it will be. I like the extra inputs on the Z, only 3 hdmi on the xbr4 isn't really enough. (PS3,PC,HD Cable, no extra)

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post #453 of 3520 Old 06-18-2008, 07:31 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by uni_panther View Post

By spec sheet looking from various places it seems the only difference from the Z and the XBR line is x.v. color. Is this THAT big of a deal?

According to the sonystyle website the Z series has x.v.Color
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post #454 of 3520 Old 06-18-2008, 07:47 PM
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You are correct soap. I looked an an early spec sheet and knew it wasn't reliable. Ok so this further makes me wonder then even more. Granted we don't know the contrast ratio of the XBR6 however I see the Z is 3000 to 1. If indeed the XBR6 msrps around 3999 which I fully expect. How can I justify an extra 1500 dollars for 6 more inches on a tv that unless I am missing something seems exactly the same as the Z?

For that price difference I can cover my new Yamaha reciever I want. 46 inch Z and a yamaha V1800 sounds like a much better deal than just a 52 inch XBR6. I have to be mistaken about something don't I? I just don't get how this is basically the exact same TV from what I see. I mean yeah if you want 52 you need the XBR but I might be willing to drop to a 46 if I can pick up the Z and my receiver. If I was in the market looking specifically for a 46 I don't understand how I could ever justify the XBR6. Once again, please point out something I have to be missing.
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post #455 of 3520 Old 06-18-2008, 07:48 PM
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one more thing I forgot to add. What is the response time for the Z? 8 ms? 6ms?
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post #456 of 3520 Old 06-18-2008, 07:51 PM
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the XBR6/7 Will have the Z panel, there is sony inside literature to support this.

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post #457 of 3520 Old 06-18-2008, 09:02 PM
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Sorry, I haven't been really keeping up with this thread lately. I also haven't been playing with the TV much. Instead, I've been working on mounting my TV to the wall. This is really the main reason I went for the 46" Z. It's finally up and it's a perfect fit!



Yeah yeah... it's an odd place to put a TV. But check it... when I really want to watch the TV, I just give it a little tug by the Bravia hole and... voila!

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post #458 of 3520 Old 06-18-2008, 09:05 PM
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holy cow. thats hardcore man. lol
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post #459 of 3520 Old 06-18-2008, 09:34 PM
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you win

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post #460 of 3520 Old 06-18-2008, 10:42 PM
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I picked up my 46" Z4100 today. I really wanted to get a chance to see it in person before buying, especially with all the talk of sparkles. Got offered a good deal and jumped on it. So far I'm really happy with it.

First, yes, I see sparkles too. But I have to be zipping through my PS3 XBR menu, and I have to be looking for them. Otherwise I haven't seen anything. Even when I do, it's so minimal it would never bother me.

Second, I have a HDR-SR12 Sony HD video camera with xv color. I don't know if it's the compression ratio or the xv color but the videos from my camera on this tv are absolutely stunning. IMHO, they looked noticably better than 1080i video from Cablevision and even the blu-ray video playing through my PS3. All 3 were connected via HDMI cables.

The video off my HD camera was so sharp and the colors were so alive.

I'm going to do some videos with xv color on and off and try and compare.

I'd highly recommend both to anyone considering either of these fine toys...

David
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post #461 of 3520 Old 06-19-2008, 05:43 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by uni_panther View Post

I still am leaning towards the 52 and if the Z had one I would probably already be sold.

You and me both.

I still don't understand why there isn't a 52Z. If Sony's thought process was "well since the 52Z and the 52XBR6 would be almost identical except for some cosmetic differences" then why is there a 46Z and a 46XBR6? Wouldn't those two models be identical too except for cosmetic differences? If so, why did they do the 46 in both Z and XBR6 but not the 52?

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post #462 of 3520 Old 06-19-2008, 05:52 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Indiana627 View Post

You and me both.

I still don't understand why there isn't a 52Z. If Sony's thought process was "well since the 52Z and the 52XBR6 would be almost identical except for some cosmetic differences" then why is there a 46Z and a 46XBR6? Wouldn't those two models be identical too except for cosmetic differences? If so, why did they do the 46 in both Z and XBR6 but not the 52?

I don't think we will ever get to the bottom of it! Sony works in a mysterious way.

Go 24
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post #463 of 3520 Old 06-19-2008, 06:15 AM
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Very true, even tho we don't have the Z4100 anywhere on store displays here in the Cleveland area yet, maybe out on the East Side somewhere, but that's the only area where there's even a Sony Style store (Beachwood Place). I ain't about to travel out there just to see that, tho, not with $4/gal. gas. Wish they'd get a Sony Style out here in the West Side somewhere, easier said than done.

Anyway, outside of them, I really see no other place to even see a Z4100 in person, so I only have the A650/750 and the W4100 to compare, and so far, with the way that the A750 continues to blow the W4100 away, I really don't see what the chances are like for the Z4100 at all. I most certainly ain't spending $3000+ on an XBR, I can tell you that much. $2500 is more my limit, and the A750 fits the bill (at least on that famous "Big River" retailer).

i will agree that both the 650/750 beat the w4100 but i wouldnt say it blows them away...in black level the 750 has a much deeper black, and the colors are much better on the 650/750 but...in my opinion from what ive seen teh w4100 isnt lacking that far behind..if sammy didnt have the glossy screen and kept it matte id say they were on par with eachother except sammy has a 10 pit panel and the W is only 8 bit i believe..so there s amajor difference there. and for the an 8 bit vs. 10 bit the W did a damn well job. the picture is sharp and clear, though there is some red push and the colors are not as good as the 650 id say they are close. Thats why i think the Z once in stores people will see that the couple extra features in the Z might match up well against the 650 and 750, but we wont know that until i actually see them side by side for my self. plus i like the design of the w4100 over the 650, it just gives you more of the picture.
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post #464 of 3520 Old 06-19-2008, 06:21 AM
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Yes, and I do like that slim-bezel design that the Z4100 uses, since it almost makes like what your Toshibas and Mitsubishis have done for the past few years. However, Sony seems to have better PQ than Toshy OR Mitsu for the price, so you are gaining better picture and features over them. Which is a coincidence, since C|Net did recently review the Mitsu LCD, and only gave it a 6.9 rating. I can see Sony really pulling out all the stops in that regard, having that same bezel design as Mitsubishi, yet having the PQ of Samsung.

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post #465 of 3520 Old 06-19-2008, 06:40 AM
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Originally Posted by TodboT View Post

But check it... when I really want to watch the TV, I just give it a little tug by the Bravia hole and... voila!

Sweet -- guess you're wishing it were a real hole . . .
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post #466 of 3520 Old 06-19-2008, 06:41 AM
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Originally Posted by taurus2007 View Post

I don't think we will ever get to the bottom of it! Sony works in a mysterious way.

We'll never know for sure, but my guess/money is on projections of sales not supporting two separate 52" models that are very similar in specs. It's just not profitable to produce a model if it's projected to sell less than some threshold quantity, and my guess is Sony has a pretty good idea of how many "high end" 52" sets they'll sell in a given time period.
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post #467 of 3520 Old 06-19-2008, 07:06 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TodboT View Post

Sorry, I haven't been really keeping up with this thread lately. I also haven't been playing with the TV much. Instead, I've been working on mounting my TV to the wall. This is really the main reason I went for the 46" Z. It's finally up and it's a perfect fit!

Yeah yeah... it's an odd place to put a TV. But check it... when I really want to watch the TV, I just give it a little tug by the Bravia hole and... voila!

I'm guessing that you're not married
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post #468 of 3520 Old 06-19-2008, 07:11 AM
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Z owners and soon-to-be owners: Did you go with the glossy black or brushed metal bezel? What was the reason for your choice?
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post #469 of 3520 Old 06-19-2008, 07:26 AM
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I went with brushed metal because it looks better

(Seriously, looks more like 'gun metal' in person)

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post #470 of 3520 Old 06-19-2008, 07:31 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by diabolyte View Post

the Z does have WCG backlight and x.v. color but it doesn't come in 52" flavors.

The Sony Style site doesn't mention the WCG backlight or any backlight for the Z, where did you see that it does?
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post #471 of 3520 Old 06-19-2008, 08:03 AM
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OgOgilby,

Check out the specs tab on the SonyStyle website for the 46Z4100/B. The x.v.color option is listed in the right-hand column.
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post #472 of 3520 Old 06-19-2008, 08:10 AM
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I've been a member of this forum for years and seen gobs of HT setups. I must say TodboT has one of the most, umm... 'unique' arrangements I've ever witnessed. Gives a whole new meaning to the concept of 'floating screen.' Well done, my man!
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post #473 of 3520 Old 06-19-2008, 08:47 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OgOgilby View Post

The Sony Style site doesn't mention the WCG backlight or any backlight for the Z, where did you see that it does?

Quote:
Originally Posted by br_hog View Post

OgOgilby,

Check out the specs tab on the SonyStyle website for the 46Z4100/B. The x.v.color option is listed in the right-hand column.

Check out my reply, I didn't mention x.v.color, I asked about the WCG backlight
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post #474 of 3520 Old 06-19-2008, 08:51 AM
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Yeah I see the x.v. color plain as day on the spec sheet on the sonystyle now. I just plain missed it earlier. I still wish someone could explain the technicality on the WCG backlighting. Many people have confirmed it has this and I don't doubt them at all. What I don't get is if it has this why would Sony not say it has it? I really wish someone "in the know" would lay this out in simple terms for a guy like me. Other than possible contrast ratio and response time to me this tv seems to be an XBR6 with cosmetic differences and in my opinion it is the better cosmetic design.

Considering many people have said the same panel that is in the Z is in the XBR6 wouldn't that mean the contrast ratio and response time would be the same? Since everything else internal seems to be the exact same I'm no tech guru but it seems that this would all be the same. The more and more I look at this it just makes me scratch my head. There is a 46XBR6 and a 46Z. Same tv from what I see. Unless I'm dead wrong on the XBR6 MSRP I'm leaning towards a Z more and more every day. Can anyone tell me the response time on the Z please.
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post #475 of 3520 Old 06-19-2008, 09:00 AM
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post #476 of 3520 Old 06-19-2008, 09:12 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OgOgilby View Post

Check out my reply, I didn't mention x.v.color, I asked about the WCG backlight

Sorry about that? I confused your thread question with that of uni-panther.

I went back to the SonyStyle specs and noticed that they listed Live Color Creation™ Technology for the Z4100. Then I looked at the specs for an XBR4 and found the following description for Live Color Creation™ Technology:

Live Color Creation™ System featuring WCG-CCFL
Many colors in the real world such as deep reds, greens and clear blues cannot be expressed with conventional display technologies. Working in combination with the special WCG-CCFL backlight in LCD HDTVs or the optical engine in our MDPJ HDTVs, Live Color Creation technology achieves wide color reproduction using advanced chroma signal processingalgorithms. The primary benefits are clear blues, natural greens and an overall vibrant color for all scenes.

My take on this is that Sony now uses the terminology Live Color Creation™ to indicate that its LCD uses a WCG backlight.
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post #477 of 3520 Old 06-19-2008, 09:14 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by uni_panther View Post

Yeah I see the x.v. color plain as day on the spec sheet on the sonystyle now. I just plain missed it earlier. I still wish someone could explain the technicality on the WCG backlighting. Many people have confirmed it has this and I don't doubt them at all. What I don't get is if it has this why would Sony not say it has it? I really wish someone "in the know" would lay this out in simple terms for a guy like me. Other than possible contrast ratio and response time to me this tv seems to be an XBR6 with cosmetic differences and in my opinion it is the better cosmetic design.

Considering many people have said the same panel that is in the Z is in the XBR6 wouldn't that mean the contrast ratio and response time would be the same? Since everything else internal seems to be the exact same I'm no tech guru but it seems that this would all be the same. The more and more I look at this it just makes me scratch my head. There is a 46XBR6 and a 46Z. Same tv from what I see. Unless I'm dead wrong on the XBR6 MSRP I'm leaning towards a Z more and more every day. Can anyone tell me the response time on the Z please.

I haven't been able to find out if the Z has WCG backlighting or not, but this post explains what it is:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...0#post14098540
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post #478 of 3520 Old 06-19-2008, 09:40 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by br_hog View Post

Sorry about that? I confused your thread question with that of uni-panther.

I went back to the SonyStyle specs and noticed that they listed Live Color Creation Technology for the Z4100. Then I looked at the specs for an XBR4 and found the following description for Live Color Creation Technology:

Live Color Creation System featuring WCG-CCFL
Many colors in the real world such as deep reds, greens and clear blues cannot be expressed with conventional display technologies. Working in combination with the special WCG-CCFL backlight in LCD HDTVs or the optical engine in our MDPJ HDTVs, Live Color Creation technology achieves wide color reproduction using advanced chroma signal processingalgorithms. The primary benefits are clear blues, natural greens and an overall vibrant color for all scenes.

My take on this is that Sony now uses the terminology Live Color Creation to indicate that its LCD uses a WCG backlight.

No problem, thanks for the info. Sony is making it tough to compare products with the way they name "features". I wish they just listed the WCG backlight. Any idea what MDPJ HDTV's are (I'm guessing projection, but who knows).
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post #479 of 3520 Old 06-19-2008, 10:07 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by uni_panther View Post

I still wish someone could explain the technicality on the WCG backlighting.

This will give you a little info too.

http://www.presentationtek.com/2008/...ht-technology/

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post #480 of 3520 Old 06-19-2008, 10:07 AM
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Originally Posted by Ambulance Chaser View Post

Z owners and soon-to-be owners: Did you go with the glossy black or brushed metal bezel? What was the reason for your choice?

Glossy black. But all of my other furniture supports that decision. Although I really liked the brushed metal it would have been out of place.

It is hard to answer your question without more information about the room you want to put it in....
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