Official Sony KDL-XXZ4100 Owner's Thread - Page 22 - AVS Forum
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post #631 of 3520 Old 06-23-2008, 10:37 AM
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Originally Posted by gsobol View Post

Threw in DVD of CARS, and noticed right away in the opening scene (when lightning mcqueen is concentrating - they cut away from the racing scenes to pure black) what the people are talking about the annoyance of the backlight dimming. I hope you can turn it off.

From reading the manual, the Z series has the same "Game Mode" under the "Picture Settings" as the XBR4/5. Enabling Game Mode for an input will disable the 'auto-dimming' feature AND disable Motion Enhancement. I do not miss the motion enhancer for film-based material. Too bad Sony hasn't added the ability to turn it the auto-dimming 'off' separately, but the game mode is the next best thing.
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post #632 of 3520 Old 06-23-2008, 11:10 AM
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Originally Posted by tvdrew View Post

Try to see it in person before deciding. I rather like it, but not sure I'd get it just because of how it would look in the room. I think the pictures make it look lighter silver than it really is, but even saying that won't help you with the decision.

My wife loves the brushed metal and says, "it doesn't have glare, doesn't look like those 'black plastic' frames". She's candid(LOL) and loves the amazing PQ, when watching her baseball games.
I'm using an in-wall mount and THE 3" depth makes it look like a picture on the wall. The "46Z" is perfect from a viewing distance of 9-11 ft. Friends all love it!
FWIW, no sparkles, using the best Monster HDMI cable (6 ft.) and surge protector, supplied free with purchase. I looked for them, but not going to anymore. It has become a non-issue since I can't see any.
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post #633 of 3520 Old 06-23-2008, 11:15 AM
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Originally Posted by Soap View Post

Ignore this troll, it's obvious why he is on these boards from his 4 posts..

Don't be bitter.
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post #634 of 3520 Old 06-23-2008, 11:18 AM
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Originally Posted by bozata View Post

Your findings are consistent with the EMI theory (somehow the TV is more sensitive to EMI). In the store you would have much more interference than in your home. Keep trying and let us know if you find anything else.

Except that I would think external interference would cause drop-outs randomly all over the screen, while the "sparkle" effect is restricted to a specific line (or a few lines).

Did your garage opener affect the whole screen equally?
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post #635 of 3520 Old 06-23-2008, 11:51 AM
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though it is a minor flaw with this sparkle thing, but why would you pay that amount of moeny for something you know has a flaw in it??
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post #636 of 3520 Old 06-23-2008, 11:52 AM
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Originally Posted by bozata View Post

If you consider 650/750 why don't you get plasma (if the power consumption is not a problem)? One of the benefits of LCD is the lack of distracting light because of the matte screen. If the glossy screen is not a problem, with plasma you would get much better contrast, better dark details, etc.

dont want plasma to expensive and to risky
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post #637 of 3520 Old 06-23-2008, 11:53 AM
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has sony contacted anyone on the sparkle issue?? or are they gonna do what they did with the XBR4 smearing and let it ride out till the next line of TV's comes out with another problem in them also!!
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post #638 of 3520 Old 06-23-2008, 11:53 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kriktsemaj99 View Post

Except that I would think external interference would cause drop-outs randomly all over the screen, while the "sparkle" effect is restricted to a specific line (or a few lines).

Did your garage opener affect the whole screen equally?

I agree with you that I should have seen it all over but I did not. It was only in the middle of the upper 1/3 of the screen.

I do not have much knowledge about the way the Bravia engine works but some MPEG coding algorithms allow for error detection and error correction mechanisms. Some of those mechanisms work better with increasing amount of "good" data (i.e. error correction is better towards the end of the frame). White sparkles on black background are easy errors to spot - most algorithms rely on the fact that the picture does not have sharp contrasts. In fact, that is why too much noise reduction destroys the sharpness.

I think that either the interference affects only the beginning of the frame or the Bravia engine somehow corrects it past the 1/3 of the frame. Or it could be as simple as insufficient shielding of the upper 1/3 of the LCD - which means that we would see the artifacts even without any signal.

Unfortunately, I cannot test anymore because I removed the source of the interference and so far I have not seen any reliable way of reproducing the problem, despite all "sparkle" postings.

On the funny side, after revealing the whole garage opener story to my wife she told me that her phone was "cracking" every time she used to open the door and now it doesn't do it anymore. May be I should start a thread on the Apple site about the iPhone cracking sound...
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post #639 of 3520 Old 06-23-2008, 12:19 PM
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Originally Posted by STILESP113 View Post

dont want plasma to expensive and to risky

I though those were the arguments against the Z? Too expensive (more than $2k) and too risky ("sparkles")....

Personally, I think both plasma and LCD have reached the limits of the technology. The remaining improvements will be only marginal - the LED lighting support, the 120Hz, the image shifting, motion enhancements, 4ms response, etc. - all addressing screen technology limitations.

The next leap will probably be the OLED that allows full light control of an individual cell, much faster switching and wider color range. Until then the manufacturers will ride the current wave with small improvements and funny names that they will trademark and claim that only they have. Therefore, the price/quality and the design will be the decisive factors for the majority of consumers.

Do I think that 650/750 are great? Absolutely, no doubt! For me Sony won because I was willing to spend a few hundred more for similar picture quality and design that matches the rest of my home.
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post #640 of 3520 Old 06-23-2008, 05:40 PM
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Hi everyone. Well this is my first post on this forum so let it be on the topic of the TV I am very interested in getting, the 46z4100.
I was at sony style yesterday and i had the rep put in the BR demo disc in so I can compare the motionflow on the Z with sets next to it.
The thing that i don't understand is why the W had better motionflow than the Z?
I had set them both to high.
Even the rep was surprised. Is there another option to turn on to fully experience motionflow?
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post #641 of 3520 Old 06-23-2008, 06:26 PM
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Originally Posted by AznKaos15 View Post

Even the rep was surprised. Is there another option to turn on to fully experience motionflow?

yah cinemotion
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post #642 of 3520 Old 06-23-2008, 06:37 PM
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Originally Posted by davez82 View Post

yah cinemotion


will it then look as good as the xbr5 or the samsung 750?
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post #643 of 3520 Old 06-23-2008, 07:03 PM
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Well I have been "lurking" on this forum for a few years now and I must say it is the source that i have depended upon in getting as many opinions as possible when making a AV decision ( and as my wife keeps reminding me I have made many). Thank you to all the knowledgable contributors.

Well I pulled the trigger and purchased the 40Z without much of my typical research, except for this thread, because I got a great deal from a friend of mine who works at one of the big 3. ( Not to mention it is in the bedroom and such not really watched as much as the family room)

First off the TV is Fantastic IMHO. From design to function. Those who have it know what i mean, so I will end it there.

As far as sparkles I have not seen any, and quite frankly i am glad that it has moved on to a different thread; it was getting real old, and dominated most of the discussion, instead of really useful postings/info in the "owners" thread.

I was looking for some preffered settings from owners who have tinkered with the set longer than I have, but really found just one post- sorry i don't remember the name; the settings where more than descent, but i thought crushed the blacks and I believe it was for the W line.

So I put my DVE calibration disk in the PS3 through HDMI and gave it a quick calibration. Used the Brightness/ contrast test, the color decoder with the film screen for Blue, Red, Green, and the sharpness test. I am definately an amatuer enthusiast and by no means a calibration expert but alot of this is subjective also, as long as you are on the right track with the settings.
They can vary slightly from the panels baseline calibration

This is what I got for "my" panel.

Picture mode: custom
Backlight:5
Picture: 85
Brightness: 49
Color:56
Hue : G1
Color Temp: Neutral
Sharpness: 10
Noise Red: Off
Mpeg Noise: Off

Advanced
Black Corrector: Low
Advaanced CE: Low
Gamma: Off
Clear white: Low
Color Space: Wide
Live color: Off

White Balance: Have not touched.

Visually I believe its pushing the red a bit and I have yet to be able to lower that red saturation withought affecting too much of the rest of the colors. I will keep trying, and any suggestions would greatly be appreciated.

Color space set to wide gives a much more lively color palette, which I prefer.
Color space, i believe, has the largest affect on color vibrance and there is a substantial difference between normal and wide. My calibration is on the wide setting. I am sure if you prefer the normal setting for color space, you will probably get different settings.

Your first choice when you calibrate is choosing between normal and wide on the color space and then go through the color calibration.

Hope you guys find this somewhat helpful.
Please let me know any suggestions that can improve these settings.
All of your opinions are welcomed.
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post #644 of 3520 Old 06-23-2008, 07:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RicoS View Post

Hey, has the TV guide feature been working properly for everyone? After well over a week, my Z is still searching. I live in a fairly populated area, don't know why it's not working properly.

OK, checked it tonight. It pulled the guide data and I can see the channel program listings. It took less than 24 hours from the start of the guide setup. So it works on Cablevision in Long Island NY.
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post #645 of 3520 Old 06-23-2008, 07:15 PM
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Originally Posted by nafs View Post

Well I have been "lurking" on this forum for a few years now and I must say it is the source that i have depended upon in getting as many opinions as possible when making a AV decision ( and as my wife keeps reminding me I have made many). Thank you to all the knowledgable contributors.

Well I pulled the trigger and purchased the 40Z without much of my typical research, except for this thread, because I got a great deal from a friend of mine who works at one of the big 3. ( Not to mention it is in the bedroom and such not really watched as much as the family room)

First off the TV is Fantastic IMHO. From design to function. Those who have it know what i mean, so I will end it there.

As far as sparkles I have not seen any, and quite frankly i am glad that it has moved on to a different thread; it was getting real old, and dominated most of the discussion, instead of really useful postings/info in the "owners" thread.

I was looking for some preffered settings from owners who have tinkered with the set longer than I have, but really found just one post- sorry i don't remember the name; the settings where more than descent, but i thought crushed the blacks and I believe it was for the W line.

So I put my DVE calibration disk in the PS3 through HDMI and gave it a quick calibration. Used the Brightness/ contrast test, the color decoder with the film screen for Blue, Red, Green, and the sharpness test. I am definately an amatuer enthusiast and by no means a calibration expert but alot of this is subjective also, as long as you are on the right track with the settings.
They can vary slightly from the panels baseline calibration

This is what I got for "my" panel.

Picture mode: custom
Backlight:5
Picture: 85
Brightness: 49
Color:56
Hue : G1
Color Temp: Neutral
Sharpness: 10
Noise Red: Off
Mpeg Noise: Off

Advanced
Black Corrector: Low
Advaanced CE: Low
Gamma: Off
Clear white: Low
Color Space: Wide
Live color: Off

White Balance: Have not touched.

Visually I believe its pushing the red a bit and I have yet to be able to lower that red saturation withought affecting too much of the rest of the colors. I will keep trying, and any suggestions would greatly be appreciated.

Color space set to wide gives a much more lively color palette, which I prefer.
Color space, i believe, has the largest affect on color vibrance and there is a substantial difference between normal and wide. My calibration is on the wide setting. I am sure if you prefer the normal setting for color space, you will probably get different settings.

Your first choice when you calibrate is choosing between normal and wide on the color space and then go through the color calibration.

Hope you guys find this somewhat helpful.
Please let me know any suggestions that can improve these settings.
All of your opinions are welcomed.

First and foremost congrats on your purchase *raises glass, cheers!*
Thanks so much for your contribution to this thread and info about the color space, I can't wait to try out those settings!
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post #646 of 3520 Old 06-23-2008, 07:37 PM
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Originally Posted by avdavidw View Post

I have been using my 46Z for about 5 days now and love it.

I have run into a very minor audio problem and wanted to see if anyone had anything like it. ................

David

David,

Connected Logitech Z-5500 via optical to my 46Z. Running PS3 via HDMI on HDMI1 port no problems so far. PC on VGA port (and small jack) also no problems. Cable TV (no box) also no problem. TV set to output sound via "audio system", audio out "fixed" (which btw does nothing when using optical connection). If anything changes will let you know.
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post #647 of 3520 Old 06-23-2008, 09:52 PM
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Picked up the 46Z4100 this afternoon from a nearby Yellow Ticket store. THey had just gotten 1 set in for use as their (presumed) display. I was able to get them to Price Match J&R with a little haggling. The set is being held until tomorrow PM when I can get over there with my Expedition. Even if there is a bit of sparkle, I am sure it will be better than the Sharp 42D62U that it is replacing (kudos to AMEX for the extended warranty program). I'll post impressions and calibration settings in the next few days.
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post #648 of 3520 Old 06-23-2008, 09:59 PM
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Does the 46 inch Z show the same level of detail as a 46 inch XBR4 does from a viewing distance of about 8 feet? Would you notice any more detail on an XBR4 than a Z playing blu-ray or would the detail look the same? Does it look as amazing as it does on an XBR4? Thanks All.

Dave
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post #649 of 3520 Old 06-23-2008, 10:27 PM
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Before I begin, I must say this: I pretty much use my tv ONLY to game. (360, PS3, and Wii)

Well, I have been the proud owner of a Sony 34XS955 for the past few years. If you are unfamiliar with that set it is basically the XBR960 (some say it is better than the 960 in PQ). It is the super-fine-pitch crt that still has no rival when it comes to blacks. I absolutely love this tv, and I have never seen another tv produce the kinds of colors it does. They are so rich. However, this thing has its downside.

First, it only gives me 540p at best. Though it can accept 1080i and 720p sources. Second, it is only 34 inches and in today's high-resolution games many fine details are lost on this small screen. Third, I move from time to time, and moving this 200 lb beast is one of the worst experiences ever. Finally, I am getting to the end of my service plan and Sony's tubes are known to go out. In fact, this one is starting to go out and I am going to get a brand new one while its free with the service contract.

So, I have been looking for a 40 inch replacement. I know there are some great plasmas out there, and I realize that burn-in isn't as big a deal as it used to be. But, I also realize it is still an issue and I don't even want to think about it. SO, I won't even consider the Kuro's. I know that Sony and Samsung make excellent LCDs. So, after a year and a half of keeping my eyes open for the next great replacement I finally pulled the trigger on the new Sony 40Z4100.

My question for you gurus out there is this: Do you think I made a mistake?

We all know LCD's run the risk of lagging a little bit when you input commands from your controller and that would drive me mad. I also know that I will never get the amazing colors and pitch black that the CRT can produce (especially the set I have). I was playing some games tonight, even after my purchase I started second guessing myself.

On the other hand, 540p is a far cry from 1080p and I feel like it's time to move on. But, is resolution as important as blacks? (it isn't like the Z4100 has bad blacks) I dunno...anybody who knows where I am coming from have any thoughts? I can always return or sell the LCD (I got a ridiculous deal on it).
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post #650 of 3520 Old 06-24-2008, 12:54 AM
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You could give the XBR8 a try, when it comes out or even go with the new 5020 Pioneer Kuro. I am not sure about the XBR8, because it is not out yet, but so far the Kuro Plasma's are the closest you can come to CRT quality blacks and colours.

Don't worry about burn in or Image retention either, I have been gaming pretty much non stop for 2 years on a Plasma and no problems.
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post #651 of 3520 Old 06-24-2008, 07:37 AM
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Originally Posted by frankefrum View Post

Before I begin, I must say this: I pretty much use my tv ONLY to game. (360, PS3, and Wii)

Well, I have been the proud owner of a Sony 34XS955 for the past few years. If you are unfamiliar with that set it is basically the XBR960 (some say it is better than the 960 in PQ). It is the super-fine-pitch crt that still has no rival when it comes to blacks. I absolutely love this tv, and I have never seen another tv produce the kinds of colors it does. They are so rich. However, this thing has its downside.

First, it only gives me 540p at best. Though it can accept 1080i and 720p sources. Second, it is only 34 inches and in today's high-resolution games many fine details are lost on this small screen. Third, I move from time to time, and moving this 200 lb beast is one of the worst experiences ever. Finally, I am getting to the end of my service plan and Sony's tubes are known to go out. In fact, this one is starting to go out and I am going to get a brand new one while its free with the service contract.

So, I have been looking for a 40 inch replacement. I know there are some great plasmas out there, and I realize that burn-in isn't as big a deal as it used to be. But, I also realize it is still an issue and I don't even want to think about it. SO, I won't even consider the Kuro's. I know that Sony and Samsung make excellent LCDs. So, after a year and a half of keeping my eyes open for the next great replacement I finally pulled the trigger on the new Sony 40Z4100.

My question for you gurus out there is this: Do you think I made a mistake?

We all know LCD's run the risk of lagging a little bit when you input commands from your controller and that would drive me mad. I also know that I will never get the amazing colors and pitch black that the CRT can produce (especially the set I have). I was playing some games tonight, even after my purchase I started second guessing myself.

On the other hand, 540p is a far cry from 1080p and I feel like it's time to move on. But, is resolution as important as blacks? (it isn't like the Z4100 has bad blacks) I dunno...anybody who knows where I am coming from have any thoughts? I can always return or sell the LCD (I got a ridiculous deal on it).

I replaced a 30'' Samsung CRT with my 40z, and I've gotta say it's better in every single way, even the blacks are better once calibrated because the CRT was kinda glossy. The lag is a non-issue because it's ~20-30ms, and the resolution is addicting. (BTW the 34XS955 has a lot more then 540 lines of horizontal resolution last I checked)

Sony HW50ES projector w/Elite 92" manual pull-down screen
Receiver - Onkyo 875
Front Speakers - B&W CM5
Center - B&W CMC2
Surrounds - B&W 686
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post #652 of 3520 Old 06-24-2008, 02:35 PM
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Does any one know if the 40z4100 uses a cooling fan or heat sink? If a fan, is there any issue with fan noise?
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post #653 of 3520 Old 06-24-2008, 06:20 PM
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Originally Posted by Soap View Post

Ignore this troll, it's obvious why he is on these boards from his 4 posts..

Well i'm sorry but I do have to agree with jskorn,I have alway's been a sony fan but the new lcd's just don't make the grade compared to the new samsung's. sony is trying to squeeze premium prices for sub premium set's' sorry but my money this time goes to samsung.
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post #654 of 3520 Old 06-24-2008, 06:42 PM
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Originally Posted by cummingsdl View Post

Well i'm sorry but I do have to agree with jskorn,I have alway's been a sony fan but the new lcd's just don't make the grade compared to the new samsung's. sony is trying to squeeze premium prices for sub premium set's' sorry but my money this time goes to samsung.

Have you seen the new Z's? It makes sense that the Ws don't compare. They are the ones that most people have been saying don't live up to the hype.
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post #655 of 3520 Old 06-24-2008, 06:55 PM
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Originally Posted by frankefrum View Post

Have you seen the new Z's? It makes sense that the Ws don't compare. They are the ones that most people have been saying don't live up to the hype.

Yes I have at the local sony store. they are nice sets, but in my opinion I don't think the picture quality is up to par with the cheaper samsung's and then you add in the sparkle issue with the price tag,just makes the samsung's the better buy in my opinion, but I do want to say the new sony's still are nice, just feel they come in second place this time around to a less expensive set. kind of dissapointing to me, because I have been a sony fan.
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post #656 of 3520 Old 06-24-2008, 07:22 PM
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Originally Posted by cummingsdl View Post

Yes I have at the local sony store. they are nice sets, but in my opinion I don't think the picture quality is up to par with the cheaper samsung's and then you add in the sparkle issue with the price tag,just makes the samsung's the better buy in my opinion, but I do want to say the new sony's still are nice, just feel they come in second place this time around to a less expensive set. kind of dissapointing to me, because I have been a sony fan.

I have been enjoying my new 46Z since Friday. PS3 on HDMI, PC on VGA, and cable (no cable box). No sparkles so far. PQ is really, really, REALLY good. Samsung has an advantage/disadvantage with the glossy screen. The glossy screen will give you an edge on contrast/brightness, but THE GLARE! Don't get me wrong the 650/750 are VERY NICE sets, but Samsung is not known for it's QC as well (just read some of the posts in 650/750 threads), and the overall look and feel (the TOC and the ugly 3" frame) does not help the matter either. I chose the 46Z because of the outstanding PQ, frame design, and no glossy screen. I do agree that the sparkle thing was worrisome. It really is exacerbated at the stores for some reason. I HAVE SEEN IT IN PERSON at the BB, CC and PC Richards, and it scared the heck out of me, because it was after I have placed an order for mine. But, so far, keeping my fingers crossed - NO SPARKLES! ... I know, I know, I shouldn't be keeping my fingers crossed when buying a quality set from a reputable company, but it's life. If I don't jump on some band wagon, I'll see my life pass me by. So, I'm on the Sony band wagon for now. Cheers.
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post #657 of 3520 Old 06-24-2008, 07:27 PM
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Does any one know if the 40z4100 uses a cooling fan or heat sink? If a fan, is there any issue with fan noise?

My set is absolutely silent.
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post #658 of 3520 Old 06-24-2008, 07:30 PM
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I have been enjoying my new 46Z since Friday. PS3 on HDMI, PC on VGA, and cable (no cable box). No sparkles so far. PQ is really, really, REALLY good. Samsung has an advantage/disadvantage with the glossy screen. The glossy screen will give you an edge on contrast/brightness, but THE GLARE! Don't get me wrong the 650/750 are VERY NICE sets, but Samsung is not known for it's QC as well (just read some of the posts in 650/750 threads), and the overall look and feel (the TOC and the ugly 3" frame) does not help the matter either. I chose the 46Z because of the outstanding PQ, frame design, and no glossy screen. I do agree that the sparkle thing was worrisome. It really is exacerbated at the stores for some reason. I HAVE SEEN IT IN PERSON at the BB, CC and PC Richards, and it scared the heck out of me, because it was after I have placed an order for mine. But, so far, keeping my fingers crossed - NO SPARKLES! ... I know, I know, I shouldn't be keeping my fingers crossed when buying a quality set from a reputable company, but it's life. If I don't jump on some band wagon, I'll see my life pass me by. So, I'm on the Sony band wagon for now. Cheers.

..
Sony is a very competitive company. I'm sure one day I will also be back in the sony camp as well. good luck with your z.
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post #659 of 3520 Old 06-24-2008, 07:51 PM
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Originally Posted by gsobol View Post

Don't get me wrong the 650/750 are VERY NICE sets, but Samsung is not known for it's QC as well (just read some of the posts in 650/750 threads), and the overall look and feel (the TOC and the ugly 3" frame) does not help the matter either.


I find it amusing that people want to speak of Sony's QC in a positive manor and down Samsung's. Sony's LCD's have been plagued with problems since day one yet somehow their QC is great. I really like Sony's sets overall but I can't see how their QC is any better or different than Samsung's.
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post #660 of 3520 Old 06-24-2008, 08:10 PM
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Yes I have at the local sony store. they are nice sets, but in my opinion I don't think the picture quality is up to par with the cheaper samsung's and then you add in the sparkle issue with the price tag,just makes the samsung's the better buy in my opinion, but I do want to say the new sony's still are nice, just feel they come in second place this time around to a less expensive set. kind of dissapointing to me, because I have been a sony fan.

My previous quote talks about my jump from the Sony 34XS955 (XBR960 basically) to the 40Z4100. I am still debating if I made a good choice. The Z will be my new set for gaming and the CRT is gonna be the spare. However, just playing it today and last night reminded what crazy blacks and rich colors (due to said blacks) that tv gets...
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