SHARP LED-LCD, Anticipation Thread! - Page 15 - AVS Forum
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post #421 of 603 Old 11-22-2008, 08:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by happy hopping View Post

tonight at scifi chnl., Sharp is doing the XS1 commercial. So they have to expect a lot of people asking for this toy when they advertise. i.e., the unit has to be widely available. You don't think Sharp would be stupid enough to advertise w/o having any of those in stock, do you?

sure. it's called creating demand.


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post #422 of 603 Old 11-23-2008, 02:43 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mikazaru View Post

http://www.displaybank.com/eng/info/show.php?c_id=3650

@irkuck, found another source that supports the claim of an edge-mounted LED BLU. I am curious how many locdim zones are in this display. Hopefully more detailed specifications are forthcoming.

Thanks, it looks both sources have the same info. In any case, lightguide plate for distributing light from 1000 LEDs over large area, how that is done? Optical fibers glued to a plate???

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post #423 of 603 Old 11-23-2008, 03:17 AM
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I don't think that Sharp is an edge-backlight design. CMO recently demonstrated a 9.9mm 55" LD-LCD:

Quote:


CMO's 55-inch LCD panel that realized 9.9mm thickness and low power consumption at the same time

Compared with edge light panels, it is more difficult to make area control panels slimmer because, theoretically, local dimming technology can only be used with a direct type backlight structure. However, Chi Mei Optoelectronics Corp (CMO) of Taiwan overcame this challenge. The company showcased a 55-inch LCD panel that uses area control technology and has a thickness of 9.9mm, which is about half the thickness of the company's previous model.

The light source and the panel move closer to each other when the backlight unit is made slimmer; therefore, there is a need to increase the number of LEDs to obscure each LED. According to CMO, in contrast to 5,500 LEDs used in a 20mm-thick panel, 21,950 LEDs must be used in the 9.9mm-thick panel like the one it exhibited this time.

It is difficult to array such many LEDs in a panel. Hence, CMO optimized the number of LEDs and employed a special sheet to reduce the thickness, the company said.

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post #424 of 603 Old 11-23-2008, 03:24 PM
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It appears that the LC-65XS1U have started to arrive in the US.

I just got back from leaving a deposit at my local PC Richards in NY. The salesman showed me the computer indicated they just received 8 units at the Farmingdale warehouse.

They have a great employee discount deal for everyone until next Wednesday, making the pricing a little more tolerable.

Next Wednesday they will have one set up right next to the KURO PDP-6020FD fed from the same Bluray source for me to evaluate. If I like it they will box it back up and deliver it or refund my deposit - sounds like a no- brainer.
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post #425 of 603 Old 11-23-2008, 10:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wayne Zworld View Post


Next Wednesday they will have one set up right next to the KURO PDP-6020FD fed from the same Bluray source for me to evaluate. If I like it they will box it back up and deliver it or refund my deposit - sounds like a no- brainer.

let us know if you see any banding. do you have test DVD for banding ?
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post #426 of 603 Old 11-23-2008, 11:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wayne Zworld View Post

Next Wednesday they will have one set up right next to the KURO PDP-6020FD fed from the same Bluray source for me to evaluate. If I like it they will box it back up and deliver it or refund my deposit - sounds like a no- brainer.

That is the duell whole world is waiting for: LCD seriously challenging the current No. 1 display or not, and why? .

Hopefully the displays will be located in place where the light can be controlled.

Please try first to optimize the XS-1 settings for best colors and no black crush.

At low light levels, evaluation of the blacks, viewing angle and amount of potential blooming at angle will be very interesting.

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post #427 of 603 Old 11-24-2008, 12:10 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sharpbandaid View Post

I don't think that Sharp is an edge-backlight design. CMO recently demonstrated a 9.9mm 55" LD-LCD:

Obviously very thin plate with LED layer on top is first choice coming to mind. Such plate can be as thin as one wants, it depends only how LEDs are integrated on it. But the sources mentioning lightguides in the XS-1 are usually reliable so it looks the question is still open.

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post #428 of 603 Old 11-24-2008, 10:35 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mikazaru View Post

http://www.xs-aquos.com/

Sharp has a dedicated website for the xs1. Seems like an incredible display -- hopefully it will live up to the hype. Along with the Panny NeoPDP, the future looks bright for both display technologies

That site sucks so bad. I hate stup1d flash sites that require huge bandwidth and then provide no useful information whatsoever
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post #429 of 603 Old 11-24-2008, 10:37 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OooAhh View Post

The LC-65XS1U panel does not have any fans.
...

Thanks for the details - highly appreciated.
One last question - does the XS1 has something like the TV Guide on the XBR8? Thx
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post #430 of 603 Old 11-24-2008, 12:45 PM
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I'm not sure if the quote boxes from earlier posts show up in this reply to earlier questions......

Quote:
Originally Posted by OooAhh
FYI.. I received a LC-65XS1U last week (thanks to Manish at Abt - discount & n/c shipping).

From: Happy Hopping, posted 12-22-08 @ 5:00 AM.....what store is Manish at Abt, what city, state, country is it from? What's the address and phone no.?

ABT is Chicago USA store that also does www sales ( abt.www ) from their web "Abt Electronics has grown to more than 1100 employees and occupies 37 acres in Glenview IL, a suburb of Chicago. Abt now operates 60 large delivery trucks, 45 custom installation trucks, and more than 100 service vans."
....

from: St_O_P. Today @ 1:37 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by OooAhh

The LC-65XS1U panel does not have any fans.

..
Thanks for the details - highly appreciated.
One last question - does the XS1 has something like the TV Guide on the XBR8? Thx
..
..... I haven't seen any built-in TV guide listings other than two that are available via our cable box. I haven't connected anything to LC-65XS1US computer or network ports and don't expect to use the TV for anything other than video from Cable TV DVR box, Antenna TV (more over the air stations than Sony SXRD), DVD/BR, camera images via USB port, and video feeds from security cameras.
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post #431 of 603 Old 11-24-2008, 08:06 PM
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This is definitely one of the more interesting user manuals I have EVER SEEN http://www.mrimusic.com/LC-52_65XS1U.pdf

Checkout this tidbit on page 34;

The backlight LED may deteriorate after a long period of use, creating color unevenness on the screen. If this occurs, use the Picture maintenance function under Identification on the Digital Setup menu to reduce the color unevenness.

Follow the instructions on the screen to perform this operation.
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post #432 of 603 Old 11-25-2008, 12:49 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wayne Zworld View Post


Checkout this tidbit on page 34;

The backlight LED may deteriorate after a long period of use, creating color unevenness on the screen. If this occurs, use the Picture maintenance function...

I do not see reason for being . Like everything, LEDs are aging; albeit slowly. This is also statistical, some may age faster but in general this will be in the order of tens of thousands of hours if anything visible happens. I think blue LEDs age faster but fortunately blue intensity needed is lower.

Strategic question: Do other LED BL sets include LED light unevenness correction? If so, this is just LED BL standard feature, if not Sharp deservesI big for including such functionality. Meaning XS-1 should be future-proof for the next 20 years.

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post #433 of 603 Old 11-25-2008, 01:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wayne Zworld View Post

This is definitely one of the more interesting user manuals I have “EVER SEEN” http://www.mrimusic.com/LC-52_65XS1U.pdf

Checkout this tidbit on page 34;

The backlight LED may deteriorate after a long period of use, creating color unevenness on the screen. If this occurs, use the Picture maintenance function under “Identification” on the Digital Setup menu to reduce the color unevenness.

Follow the instructions on the screen to perform this operation.

Looks like it has quite an in depth colour management system. Both RGB gains and RGBCMY hue and saturation controls. I'd like to see what a skilled calibrator could do with one of these.
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post #434 of 603 Old 11-25-2008, 07:40 PM
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Does anybody know how many LEDs the XS1 has? Maybe I've missed this info? It would be interesting to know...
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post #435 of 603 Old 11-25-2008, 11:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cl55amg View Post

Does anybody know how many LEDs the XS1 has? Maybe I've missed this info? It would be interesting to know...

According to the usually reliable japanese source it has 1000 LEDs. Unclear if this is exact number and if it counts all R G B LEDs, normally the number of greens is equal to reds and blues combined, it would be then 500 greens, and 250 reds and blues. It is also unlcear if this number refers to the 52" XS-1 or the 65" XS-1.

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post #436 of 603 Old 11-26-2008, 12:10 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wayne Zworld View Post

Next Wednesday they will have one set up right next to the KURO PDP-6020FD fed from the same Bluray source for me to evaluate. If I like it they will box it back up and deliver it or refund my deposit - sounds like a no- brainer.

Three recent reviews of other top LCD locdimmed sets are quite revealing what to focus on when evaluating such displays:

Samsung 55" LN55A950

Sony KDL-55XBR8

and again

Samsung 55" LN55A950

Notice these are fine sets but when they hunt to catch minor PQ problems with them they are talking about haloing, pumping, missing stars, fleeting motion artefacts. Checking those aspects might be critical for placing the XS-1 on the top displays ladder if all other things (like color reproduction) are equal. BTW, it seems the most strigent practical color reproduction test are skin tones.

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post #437 of 603 Old 11-26-2008, 11:03 AM
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OooAhh (or if anybody else can answer) - one more question:
Does the XS1 has picture-in-picture (PiP, PoP or whatever version)? I browsed through the owner's manual but I didn't see that, and I was wondering.
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post #438 of 603 Old 11-27-2008, 01:40 AM
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If I am viewing this 65" LCD 12 ft. away, via satellite signal, but not HD Satellite signal, what would I be expecting on the video quality?

My DVD recorder has that 1080p upscale conversion, but I would guess that is for viewing DVD only, although I pipe the output of the satellite signal to the input of the dvd recorder and from the output of the dvd recorder to the TV.

Now, between my DVD recorder and this Sharp 65", is there a way to up convert the signal? Does this Sharp 65" has a feature to up convert the signal?
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post #439 of 603 Old 11-28-2008, 06:08 AM
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I went to view an XS1 yesterday in Amsterdam. I'm not a videophile, but I can say that the picture quality was fantastic; certainly the best I've ever seen. The source was the standard Sharp Blu-Ray demo disc that everyone seems to have seen.

Viewing at 60 degrees was perfectly acceptable to my eyes with very little loss of contrast. In any case, I'd never watch TV at anything close to that angle.

I liked the XS1 enough to ask the shop to order one for me. According to Sharp Nederland, there's a two week delivery time. I hope that's not just blind optimism, because, to be honest, I'm surprised that this shop has one on display whilst so many people here are still yearning for even a glimpse of one in their vicinity.

Anyway, I hope to have one of these hanging on the wall at home within the next few weeks.
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post #440 of 603 Old 11-28-2008, 11:33 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ianmacd View Post

I went to view an XS1 yesterday in Amsterdam. I'm not a videophile, but I can say that the picture quality was fantastic; certainly the best I've ever seen. The source was the standard Sharp Blu-Ray demo disc that everyone seems to have seen.
Viewing at 60 degrees was perfectly acceptable to my eyes with very little loss of contrast. In any case, I'd never watch TV at anything close to that angle. I liked the XS1 enough to ask the shop to order one for me. According to Sharp Nederland, there's a two week delivery time. I hope that's not just blind optimism, because, to be honest, I'm surprised that this shop has one on display whilst so many people here are still yearning for even a glimpse of one in their vicinity.
Anyway, I hope to have one of these hanging on the wall at home within the next few weeks.

Wow, you have to be congratulated for your bold decision. Hmm, wonder if there was some additional attraction in the actual price. Surely the XS-1 must be overall a very good display, the question is how good in all kind of circumstances and how it compares with the current very best. The stated production numbers for the 65" XS-1 are 1000/month, manufacturing is probably just ramping up.

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post #441 of 603 Old 11-29-2008, 11:11 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by irkuck View Post

Wow, you have to be congratulated for your bold decision. Hmm, wonder if there was some additional attraction in the actual price. Surely the XS-1 must be overall a very good display, the question is how good in all kind of circumstances and how it compares with the current very best. The stated production numbers for the 65" XS-1 are 1000/month, manufacturing is probably just ramping up.

Well, I was supposed to be buying a Panasonic TH-65PZ800 anyway, but the shop in question has been told by Panasonic Netherlands that stocks are unlikely to reach them until February 2009.

The shop informed me of the delay and happened to mention that they had an XS-1 on display. Then they told me the price and I lost interest.

The next day, though, I'd read through the postings on this forum and was curious enough to go down to the shop to see what all the fuss was about.

I actually didn't commit to buying one on the spot. There's no way I could have done that without first speaking to my wife. Well, I could have, but you can probably imagine what the consequences might have been.

My wife and I discussed it over lunch and decided to take the plunge. I'm still nervous about it and I'm not looking forward to seeing the price drop significantly in the next twelve months, but I know that it's virtually inevitable.

The shop informed me Friday afternoon that they think they can now get their hands on one by the middle of next week. Apparently, Sharp Netherlands had ordered one for a customer of a different shop, but he has since cancelled his order. Two other customers higher up the waiting list have also indicated that they don't want their set until the end of the year, so that apparently placed me first in line.

If I really do get mine next week, I'll post my experiences with it if anyone is interested.
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post #442 of 603 Old 11-29-2008, 10:45 PM
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anyone have this set yet?
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post #443 of 603 Old 11-30-2008, 02:52 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by irkuck View Post

Wow, you have to be congratulated for your bold decision. Hmm, wonder if there was some additional attraction in the actual price. Surely the XS-1 must be overall a very good display, the question is how good in all kind of circumstances and how it compares with the current very best. The stated production numbers for the 65" XS-1 are 1000/month, manufacturing is probably just ramping up.

Somehow, I posted my reply to this without being logged in and it didn't make it through.

Anyway, I was supposed to be buying a Panasonic TH-65PZ800, but the shop had been informed by Panasonic Netherlands that further supplies weren't expected until February 2009. The shop called to tell me this and then mentioned the XS1 as an alternative. When I heard the price, I lost all interest.

That evening, I came on here and read the anticipation thread. With my interest suitably piqued, I went down to the shop the next morning for a look at an XS1 in the flesh.

I was very impressed, but I didn't commit to purchasing one on the spot. There's no way I could make a decision like that without first consulting my wife. Well, I could, but you can probably imagine the consequences.

My wife and I discussed the matter over lunch and decided to take the plunge. I'm not looking forward to seeing the price of the XS1 drop drastically over the next twelve months, but I realise that's inevitable.

The shop rang me Friday afternoon to tell me that Sharp Netherlands expects to receive an XS1 early next week. Apparently, the customer of another shop has cancelled his order and the two others in line for an XS1 have stated they don't want/need their set until the end of the year. Evidently, that puts me at the head of the queue.

With a bit of luck, I'll have my XS1 before the end of next week, but I'm not holding my breath, as I don't want to be disappointed.
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post #444 of 603 Old 12-01-2008, 07:09 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ianmacd View Post

When I heard the price, I lost all interest.
That evening, I came on here and read the anticipation thread. With my interest suitably piqued, I went down to the shop the next morning for a look at an XS1 in the flesh. I was very impressed, but I didn't commit to purchasing one on the spot. There's no way I could make a decision like that without first consulting my wife. Well, I could, but you can probably imagine the consequences. My wife and I discussed the matter over lunch and decided to take the plunge.

I think the Panasonic price should not be even nowhere near the 65" XS1 so was it that the PQ of XS1 was sky-high to justify its price??? Anyway, its nice when decision of buying five figures items is just a lunch discussion with wf.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ianmacd View Post

With a bit of luck, I'll have my XS1 before the end of next week, but I'm not holding my breath, as I don't want to be disappointed.

Hopefully you'll get it and share with others your eyeballs report.

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post #445 of 603 Old 12-04-2008, 06:49 PM
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Update on our LC-65XS1 (see post # 399 & 408 - this thread).

It only gets better. We were extremely pleased with its image quality after adjusting by eye for what I thought was proper skin tones, etc. and I couldn't disagree with my wife that we might be crazy to have it professionally calibrated.

Earlier today Gregg Loewen of Lion Audio Video (lionav.com) unpacked and setup two travel cases of equipment and showed me that my settings were actually quite bad. He spent a couple of hours getting it well within THX calibration spec. While there were a couple of results that were not perfect, they were quite good, within THX spec and if better not anything that would be visible to the eye. Gregg's comments included; it had more calibration settings than most sets and included the words gorgeous and jealous. You'll have to check with Gregg for any comparison to other TV's that he's calibrated.

While the picture was great before calibration, it's fabulous now. No question that colors are as they should be, whites are brighter, blacks are dead black (with room lights turned off blacks are totally black as with the TV turned OFF), etc. I don't have another calibrated TV to compare it to, but as far as I am concerned, it's perfect. Best of all, my wife says that she can easily see the improvement on both HD and SD programs and that it was worth getting it calibrated.

It's too bad the TV's can't be properly calibrated as received from the manufacturer and the stores can't have a level playing field with all display TV's properly set up for an honest comparison.

My advice to anyone that spends the $ for a high end TV is that no matter how good you think it is, you'll never know if it is as good as it can be without the services of someone with the equipment, knowledge and time to get it right. It's also nice to no longer think that it could be better with additional tweaking by eye to correct for what might simply be poor quality program material.
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post #446 of 603 Old 12-05-2008, 02:07 AM
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what are the names of some of these calibration DVD design for LCD TV? I would like to buy 1 online.

also, could you post a photo of the AFter-calibration screen
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post #447 of 603 Old 12-05-2008, 04:32 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by happy hopping View Post

what are the names of some of these calibration DVD design for LCD TV? I would like to buy 1 online.

http://www.dvdpacific.com/item.asp?ID=870724
http://www.hdtvsupply.com/aviigutohoth.html
http://www.hdtvsupply.com/hqv-benchmark.html

You can do a lot with these tools, but the results are not comparable to a professional calibration done with proper test equipment and an experienced tech.
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post #448 of 603 Old 12-05-2008, 11:22 AM
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The first detailed review of the 52" Sharp XS-1 is just published by the HD TV magazine in Germany. There is no Web access to the full review yet, according to sources which read it the conclusions are quite astonishing:

The display itself is phenomenal but the media box electronics is equally unphenomenal. So the display is praised for its colors, dynamic range, blacks level, but the media box is set to have problems in almost every aspect of processing:

Colors are oversaturated and can not be precisely calibrated from menu, frame upconversion to 100 Hz (Europe) is not good, even picture scaling is not good. According to the review the PQ is getting much better when the media box is taken away and display driven directly from a source box. In case of scaling there is improvement when AV receiver with scaling is connected between the media box and the display. Sharp promises updates to the media box but at this stage the box is no match for the display.

Surely this review is hair raising at least for those who still have hairs . There is big contrast to opinions voiced here and natural
question if the critic is vaild. There is no reason to doubt the competence of the reviewers and one should rather expect them wanting to be positive,so where is the catch?

The XS owners can at least make a simple test with connecting an HD source via media box and directly to the display, can really differences be seen? Somebody having AV receiver with scaling could even try an SD soource via media box and reciever.

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post #449 of 603 Old 12-05-2008, 05:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by irkuck View Post

So the display is praised for its colors, dynamic range, blacks level, but the media box is set to have problems in almost every aspect of processing:

If you can afford an XS1, you probably can afford a Lumagen or something to replace the media box anyway.
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post #450 of 603 Old 12-06-2008, 07:58 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Carled View Post

If you can afford an XS1, you probably can afford a Lumagen or something to replace the media box anyway.

Another magazine in Germany, Video-Home Vision, brings also a review of the 52" Sharp XS-1 in its latest issue, the report is not available on the Web, only the front cover with the XS-1 photo and list of content. They are not as critical about the XS-1 media box but they made another startling discovery: the 100 Hz mode (equivalent of 120 Hz in the US) is not working at all despite being present in the menu. So one buys a set at the end of four-digit or in five-digit range to discover that its basic features are not operating and then considers replacing media box with something else?

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