SHARP LED-LCD, Anticipation Thread! - Page 16 - AVS Forum
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post #451 of 603 Old 12-06-2008, 11:09 AM
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Originally Posted by irkuck View Post

I think the Panasonic price should not be even nowhere near the 65" XS1 so was it that the PQ of XS1 was sky-high to justify its price??? Anyway, its nice when decision of buying five figures items is just a lunch discussion with wf.

Yes, the Panasonic 65PZ800 would have been several thousand Euro cheaper than the XS1. It took some persuasion on my part to get my wife to agree to the purchase of a television so much more expensive than the one we'd already been planning, which was dear enough in its own right.

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Hopefully you'll get it and share with others your eyeballs report.

The XS1 is now hanging on my wall. It was mounted two days ago.

The model I have is the LC-65XS1E, the E denoting the European model.

That E turns out to be significant, as there are hardware differences between the European, North American and Asian models. Most of the differences are in the tuner box.

My European set, for example, has no Ethernet jack. Consequently, there's also no push-service offering weather and stock information, etc. via a stripped down browser.

There are only three HDMI ports on the European model, too. One of these is located on the front of the tuner box, which requires opening the front panel, allowing dust to gather. I think I saw in the PDF of the US model's user manual that there are many more HDMI ports on the North American model.

On the other hand, the European model has inputs for a satellite dish, which the US one doesn't. Maybe there's even a basic DVB-S tuner included; I haven't checked, as I don't have satellite.

The shop that installed my XS1 performed professional calibration as part of their installation service. In its factory state, the XS1's colour was turned up way too high.

I watched Close Encounters of the Third Kind on Blu-Ray yesterday evening (using a Sony BDP-S550) and was stunned by the PQ, particularly the black, which truly was pitch black; as if the set was turned off. PQ in general is stunning, but as I've said before, I'm not a videophile, so I'm probably more easily stunned than many people here.

The TV is a little slow to start up when turned on and changing to a channel with a different resolution is much slower than I would have liked. Going to or from an HD channel with 1080i takes a few seconds. In the interim, the screen remains black. This could be the fault of my cable box, I suppose; I haven't looked into it.

Anyway, all in all, my first impressions are very good.
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post #452 of 603 Old 12-06-2008, 11:52 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ianmacd View Post

The model I have is the LC-65XS1E, the E denoting the European model.

That E turns out to be significant, as there are hardware differences between the European, North American and Asian models. Most of the differences are in the tuner box.

My European set, for example, has no Ethernet jack. Consequently, there's also no push-service offering weather and stock information, etc. via a stripped down browser.

On the other hand, the European model has inputs for a satellite dish, which the US one doesn't. Maybe there's even a basic DVB-S tuner included; I haven't checked, as I don't have satellite.


There are only three HDMI ports on the European model, too. One of these is located on the front of the tuner box, which requires opening the front panel, allowing dust to gather. I think I saw in the PDF of the US model's user manual that there are many more HDMI ports on the North American model.

The TV is a little slow to start up when turned on and changing to a channel with a different resolution is much slower than I would have liked. Going to or from an HD channel with 1080i takes a few seconds. In the interim, the screen remains black. This could be the fault of my cable box, I suppose; I haven't looked into it.

Anyway, all in all, my first impressions are very good.

Congratulations and thank you for your initial impressions. Some things can be clarified. According to the specs the XS-1 has full-blown HD satellite tuner which means it is not an average one but for the new satellite standard DVB-S2. The set has also cable tuner, you should check if there is possibility to use directly the media box with your subscription card by buying access module and skipping the cable box. The problem with slow switching may be not only due to the cable box but the combination of both boxes and even the display itself. For example there is known problem with so called HDCP reauthentication, whenever he source is identified as new the procedure is repeated and switching channels takes time.

I understand your cable box has HDMI output. An interesting test would be to connect the display directly to the cable box with HDMI cable and check the PQ.

Another test is the 100 Hz mode: is this really so that, as they say in the review above, that switching it on/off has absolutely no effect so this mode is not working?

In the end, what is your opinion on the problems identified in the reviews which criticized the media box (e.g. color balance, saturation, skin colors).
This in a way depends on the comparison of PQ with and without the media box, can differences be seen? One wonders then which functions for setting the display are in the media box and which in the display itself?

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post #453 of 603 Old 12-06-2008, 05:01 PM
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Originally Posted by OooAhh View Post

Earlier today Gregg Loewen of Lion Audio Video (lionav.com) unpacked and setup two travel cases of equipment and showed me that my settings were actually quite bad.

Thanks for the calibration report for a very interesting display. I've included your report in the flat panel (Post#2) list that's linked at the bottom of my post.

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post #454 of 603 Old 12-08-2008, 04:10 PM
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Originally Posted by irkuck View Post

According to the specs the XS-1 has full-blown HD satellite tuner which means it is not an average one but for the new satellite standard DVB-S2. The set has also cable tuner, you should check if there is possibility to use directly the media box with your subscription card by buying access module and skipping the cable box.

Sadly, this isn't possible with UPC in the Netherlands. They use Nagravision, so you need UPC's own decoder box. Similarly, DVR boxes made from software like MythTV can't use DVB-C cards, so making HD recordings (or anything even close) is impossible.

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The problem with slow switching may be not only due to the cable box but the combination of both boxes and even the display itself. For example there is known problem with so called HDCP reauthentication, whenever he source is identified as new the procedure is repeated and switching channels takes time.

Thanks for the explanation. Whatever the cause, I'll have to live with the effect.

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Another test is the 100 Hz mode: is this really so that, as they say in the review above, that switching it on/off has absolutely no effect so this mode is not working?

Well, the manual says that it's used for fast action footage, so perhaps it's turned on when needed. If not, then it doesn't work, as you say, because nothing happens when I select it.

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In the end, what is your opinion on the problems identified in the reviews which criticized the media box (e.g. color balance, saturation, skin colors).

To be honest, I don't see these problems. My box was professionally calibrated, though. Perhaps that makes all the difference. Certainly, it didn't look very good when it was first plugged in.
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post #455 of 603 Old 12-08-2008, 04:35 PM
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Originally Posted by irkuck View Post

The first detailed review of the 52" Sharp XS-1 is just published by the HD TV magazine in Germany. There is no Web access to the full review yet, according to sources which read it the conclusions are quite astonishing:

The display itself is phenomenal but the media box electronics is equally unphenomenal. So the display is praised for its colors, dynamic range, blacks level, but the media box is set to have problems in almost every aspect of processing:

Colors are oversaturated and can not be precisely calibrated from menu, frame upconversion to 100 Hz (Europe) is not good, even picture scaling is not good. According to the review the PQ is getting much better when the media box is taken away and display driven directly from a source box. In case of scaling there is improvement when AV receiver with scaling is connected between the media box and the display. Sharp promises updates to the media box but at this stage the box is no match for the display.

Surely this review is hair raising at least for those who still have hairs . There is big contrast to opinions voiced here and natural
question if the critic is vaild. There is no reason to doubt the competence of the reviewers and one should rather expect them wanting to be positive,so where is the catch?

The XS owners can at least make a simple test with connecting an HD source via media box and directly to the display, can really differences be seen? Somebody having AV receiver with scaling could even try an SD soource via media box and reciever.

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Another magazine in Germany, Video-Home Vision, brings also a review of the 52" Sharp XS-1 in its latest issue, the report is not available on the Web, only the front cover with the XS-1 photo and list of content. They are not as critical about the XS-1 media box but they made another startling discovery: the 100 Hz mode (equivalent of 120 Hz in the US) is not working at all despite being present in the menu. So one buys a set at the end of four-digit or in five-digit range to discover that its basic features are not operating and then considers replacing media box with something else?


Let me answer this one before someone else does. These are obviously not credible sources, and show extreme bias with the not so glamorous reviews.
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post #456 of 603 Old 12-09-2008, 02:10 AM
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Let me answer this one before someone else does. These are obviously not credible sources, and show extreme bias with the not so glamorous reviews.

Hmm, I see no reason why they would be so uncredible to point out basic problems like 100Hz mode not operating, or oversaturated colors which could not be compensated. There is also information that Sharp is working on software upgrade for these sets(!). Anyway, hopefully more credible reviews will appear.

It looks though the media box could be considered redundant and the displays used in the monitor mode. In this respect I wonder how they managed to put quite flat power supply in the display and not create hot area around it close to the display glass.

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post #457 of 603 Old 12-09-2008, 02:25 AM
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Originally Posted by ianmacd View Post

Sadly, this isn't possible with UPC in the Netherlands. They use Nagravision, so you need UPC's own decoder box. Similarly, DVR boxes made from software like MythTV can't use DVB-C cards, so making HD recordings (or anything even close) is impossible.

This clarifies the situation. But then an opposite test would be interesting: connecting the cable box directly to the display, without the media box. I presume the cable box output is HDMI so this should not be slightest problem to do. In prinicple the picture should be exactly the same since the media box is just passing the digital signal. But the switching times may improve, if it really is so the problem is obviously in the media bax.

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Well, the manual says that it's used for fast action footage, so perhaps it's turned on when needed. If not, then it doesn't work, as you say, because nothing happens when I select it.

100 Hz mode is not automatic, so probably it is not enabled in the set.

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To be honest, I don't see these problems. My box was professionally calibrated, though. Perhaps that makes all the difference. Certainly, it didn't look very good when it was first plugged in.

The problem might be limited to the use of the media box. Let's say an SD program is received via the media box which upconverts it to HD for the HDMI output. Then the SD pictures have to decoded and processed for upconversion. If something is crewed up they will not look good, even if the display itself is perfect. In your case, all this is done by the cable box which may do it much better than the media box and you see no problems. In those reviews the display itself was graded as phenomenal.

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post #458 of 603 Old 12-09-2008, 01:35 PM
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Excuse me while I threadjack for a second:

Given the fact that these new Sharps will be replacing the XXSE94U as Sharp's "high end" option, what is to become of the 94Us? I am interested in the 52SE94U as the XS will most likely be out of my price range for a loooog time. The number of places selling the 94U has been steadily dropping and I wonder if Sharp is discontinuing it. More to the point, do you think that the 94U pricing will be impacted much as the XS's availability increases? Trying to time my purchase. . .
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post #459 of 603 Old 12-09-2008, 06:46 PM
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I just bought the 52se94u and had been watching the price closely for 4 or 5months and I can't see it dropping that much more signficantly. IMOthe set will be discontinued before the set drops to much more below 1.8k (it had a list price of 4k). The XS series isn't likely to impact the pricing of the 94u series for one reason alone, its going to be expensive and going to be carried at fewer stores than the 94U because of its price and fewer quantities

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post #460 of 603 Old 12-09-2008, 08:44 PM
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I saw a nice commercial during the steelers game this weekend on these new units To bad none of my nextworks have these ! Damb it.
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post #461 of 603 Old 12-09-2008, 10:40 PM
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http://www.dvdpacific.com/item.asp?ID=870724
http://www.hdtvsupply.com/aviigutohoth.html
http://www.hdtvsupply.com/hqv-benchmark.html

You can do a lot with these tools, but the results are not comparable to a professional calibration done with proper test equipment and an experienced tech.

I didn't see this until now. And just before that, I bought Monster / ISF calibration DVD. What a piece of @#$&*&^. They don't have the color or b&W bar for me to adjust the color, all I see is people.

I'm going to buy one of the above, thanks.
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post #462 of 603 Old 12-09-2008, 10:52 PM
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Originally Posted by ferky1 View Post

Excuse me while I threadjack for a second:

Given the fact that these new Sharps will be replacing the XXSE94U as Sharp's "high end" option, what is to become of the 94Us? I am interested in the 52SE94U as the XS will most likely be out of my price range for a loooog time. The number of places selling the 94U has been steadily dropping and I wonder if Sharp is discontinuing it. More to the point, do you think that the 94U pricing will be impacted much as the XS's availability increases? Trying to time my purchase. . .

amazon.com has some very good price on the above
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post #463 of 603 Old 12-09-2008, 10:53 PM
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In the prev. page when some of you are talking about the "media box", what does it look like? Does it c/w the unit? As I don't see a media box on those photos
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post #464 of 603 Old 12-09-2008, 10:59 PM
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Originally Posted by happy hopping View Post

I didn't see this until now. And just before that, I bought Monster / ISF calibration DVD. What a piece of @#$&*&^. They don't have the color or b&W bar for me to adjust the color, all I see is people.

I'm going to buy one of the above, thanks.

If you'e just going to buy one, I would suggest Avia. It's the most useful for someone in the beginner-intermediate range.

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In the prev. page when some of you are talking about the "media box", what does it look like? Does it c/w the unit? As I don't see a media box on those photos

The set is slim-ish, and part of that comes from having the electronics in a seperate box. They probably don't put it in the pictures because it isn't as pretty looking and seperate boxes are regarded as a bit of a hassle by a lot of people.
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post #465 of 603 Old 12-10-2008, 02:55 AM
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Originally Posted by Carled View Post

The set is slim-ish, and part of that comes from having the electronics in a seperate box. They probably don't put it in the pictures because it isn't as pretty looking and seperate boxes are regarded as a bit of a hassle by a lot of people.

More hassle is connecting lots of cables to the display especially if you ever change them and display is hanging on the wall with cables hidden.
Media box is really a good solution then. Seems also inevitable in the slim future ahead. Sony LED LCD XBR8 series sets are really fat on the border of obesity. However, emerging rumors from Europe are that Sharp XS- 1media box is not up to the PQ level of the XS-1 display itself.

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post #466 of 603 Old 12-10-2008, 03:30 AM
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Originally Posted by ferky1 View Post

Excuse me while I threadjack for a second:

Given the fact that these new Sharps will be replacing the XXSE94U as Sharp's "high end" option, what is to become of the 94Us? I am interested in the 52SE94U as the XS will most likely be out of my price range for a loooog time. The number of places selling the 94U has been steadily dropping and I wonder if Sharp is discontinuing it. More to the point, do you think that the 94U pricing will be impacted much as the XS's availability increases? Trying to time my purchase. . .

We'll find out the 2009 transition at CES Jan 8th or shortly before which has been the debut point for Sharps higher end new lines for at least the past 3 years. SE94 and it's predecessors have come from different plants and lines than the budget series and get their announcements at CES.

There is no way the XS could fullfill the sales shoes at it's price of the SE94U unless they sliced it's pricing by about 60% or more.

Hang in there and we should know specifics and hopefully a thin form factor Sharp with deeper blacks finally without paying $12-$15K.

Samsung 65F8000, 60D8000, 40HU6350, Panasonic 50E60 LCD's
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post #467 of 603 Old 12-10-2008, 05:31 AM
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...Hang in there and we should know specifics and hopefully a thin form factor Sharp with deeper blacks finally without paying $12-$15K.

And hopefully fill that stupid gap between 52 inches and 65 inches. 56-60 inches is for many people including me the "sweet spot" in terms of living room size and getting the most out of our HDTV signal. I really don't care about thin. Normal flat-panels are plenty thin enough for my tastes.
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post #468 of 603 Old 12-11-2008, 01:40 AM
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Originally Posted by Carled View Post

The set is slim-ish, and part of that comes from having the electronics in a seperate box. They probably don't put it in the pictures because it isn't as pretty looking and seperate boxes are regarded as a bit of a hassle by a lot of people.

do we need that box, is it necessary?
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post #469 of 603 Old 12-11-2008, 02:05 AM
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Originally Posted by happy hopping View Post

do we need that box, is it necessary?

Generally media boxes are just a combination scaler, switcher and TV tuner. If you feed the TV a native rate signal by HDMI you should be able to do without. However, I'm not sure how the 100/120Hz mode is handled with it. Trial and error would probably be required to find out.
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post #470 of 603 Old 12-12-2008, 12:41 AM
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Originally Posted by Carled View Post

Generally media boxes are just a combination scaler, switcher and TV tuner. If you feed the TV a native rate signal by HDMI you should be able to do without. However, I'm not sure how the 100/120Hz mode is handled with it. Trial and error would probably be required to find out.

Looks this will not help as the mode seems to be not working.

Otherwise the media box is not necessary. In fact if somebody has high-end AV receiver with multiple HDMI inputs and scaling plus TV set-top receiver, the media box is completely redundant.

Sharp, if you listen please start selling monitor version of the XS-1 for 2 grand less plus 3 grand overall price reduction.

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post #471 of 603 Old 12-12-2008, 11:46 AM
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The XS-1 sets are available from some time in Germany, but now they made another announcement that they are available

Nice picture, sharp and slender: Sharp presents new LCD TV Supermodel now available in trade

Here is the announcement

Interesting technical fragment after translation modification: This allows targeted control of more than 1,000 segments, each with multiple LEDs integrated.

Does this mean more than 1000 zones

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post #472 of 603 Old 12-12-2008, 12:36 PM
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Originally Posted by irkuck View Post

Does this mean more than 1000 zones

Looks like it, 1000 segments (zones) with mutiple LEDs (Red, Green, Blue)

If you go with a base 8, you could speculate that there are 1024 zones. Just speculation, but makes sense to me. If there is control for each individual red, green and blue LED that is 3072 individually controled zones so to speak.

That is what it sounds like to me. That would account for the price. They did a good design if that is correct.
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post #473 of 603 Old 12-12-2008, 05:32 PM
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Unless each individual colour is counted as a zone, in which case you can divide that figure by three.
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post #474 of 603 Old 12-13-2008, 04:59 AM
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I had the opportunity to check one out today. I viewed both the 52 and 65. In the brightly lighted store, Yodobashi Camera, the set looked great. Shadow detail was unparalleled, and it was bright to end all bright. Next to the Kuros, which were in an intentionally dim viewing environment, the sharp was definitely on top for picture clarity and shadow detail.

When this tech trickles down to mainstream, I am all over it! For now, the 65 can be had here in Japan for about 9K. It is tempting even at that price.
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post #475 of 603 Old 12-15-2008, 08:48 PM
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post #476 of 603 Old 12-16-2008, 01:22 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TNG View Post

Looks like it, 1000 segments (zones) with mutiple LEDs (Red, Green, Blue)

If you go with a base 8, you could speculate that there are 1024 zones. Just speculation, but makes sense to me. If there is control for each individual red, green and blue LED that is 3072 individually controled zones so to speak.

That is what it sounds like to me. That would account for the price. They did a good design if that is correct.

Is that for the 52, or 65? If it is the 65, any idea how many zones the 52 will have?

From my observations, the Sonys are pretty good with the crosstalk. Much better than the Samsungs. If the Sharps have even more zones, it should be a sign of good things to come.

I also hope they are much better with picture noise on the 65 incher than the 94u, which to my eyes, is huge dissapointment. If they would've done a better job with the 94u, they could've really of capitalized on it, considering there aren't many options in that size.
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post #477 of 603 Old 12-16-2008, 10:31 AM
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These are on sharps web site now, about time.

LC-65XS1U-S <<< Click Here >>>

LC-52XS1U-S <<< Click Here >>>

No MSRP ?!?
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post #478 of 603 Old 12-16-2008, 10:57 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cleveland Plasma View Post

These are on sharps web site now, about time.

LC-65XS1U-S <<< Click Here >>>

LC-52XS1U-S <<< Click Here >>>

Send me a demo!

55HX950 l SC-1522-K l SP-PK51FS l RW12-D l XBox 360 Slim l PS3 60GB l RNG200 l P31 LIVE:BPMURR PSN:BPMURR

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post #479 of 603 Old 12-16-2008, 08:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bpmurr View Post

Send me a demo!

You and me both because that's the ONLY way I'll get one!
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post #480 of 603 Old 12-17-2008, 07:39 AM
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Sound & Vision mag just reviewed the XS1. Pretty positive. Cover story in January issue.
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