Samsung Series 9 Owners - Observations, Comments and Advice - Page 19 - AVS Forum
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post #541 of 3779 Old 09-11-2008, 09:23 AM
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Since price protection was supposedly removed, has anyone tried dropping a 10% or 12% coupon at Best Buy on the 950 recently with any success?
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post #542 of 3779 Old 09-11-2008, 09:50 AM
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It's great that people are willing to take the time/effort to post photos.

However, I think that they have the potential to give mis-impressions and here's why:
1) Maintaining image integrity from capture though final viewing is extremely difficult even when photographing a bowl of fruit. At each step the color spectrum and balance needs to be quantified and inconsistencies anywhere in the chain will produce inaccurate results. A quick example of what I'm talking about is how when most people take photos inside under tungsten lighting then the color balance will tend to become very yellowish unless this fully accounted for and adjustments are made.
2) The quality of the camera & lens can be critical. The old computer motto - "garbage in, garbage out" really applies here.
3) The color spectrum that is possible over the Internet usually has limitations that diminish an accurate portrayal of how the actual source appears in person.
4) Last but certainly not the least is how variably the computer monitors reproduce images. If your monitor has color that is slightly skewed (toward the blue for example) then the reproductions of screen shots will look this way too - and you'll never know it. Having a "profiled" monitor goes a long way to help, but mostly only professional photographers (like me) will have done this.

So not to discourage anyone from posting screen shots but they need to viewed in perspective. In other words I wouldn't try and garner any more from them than how the overall TV looks and learn about the image quality from descriptions by the owners/reviewers.
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post #543 of 3779 Old 09-11-2008, 10:00 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WRoss View Post

It's great that people are willing to take the time/effort to post photos.

However, I think that they have the potential to give mis-impressions and here's why:
1) Maintaining image integrity from capture though final viewing is extremely difficult even when photographing a bowl of fruit. At each step the color spectrum and balance needs to be quantified and inconsistencies anywhere in the chain will produce inaccurate results. A quick example of what I'm talking about is how when most people take photos inside under tungsten lighting then the color balance will tend to become very yellowish unless this fully accounted for and adjustments are made.
2) The quality of the camera & lens can be critical. The old computer motto - "garbage in, garbage out" really applies here.
3) The color spectrum that is possible over the Internet usually has limitations that diminish an accurate portrayal of how the actual source appears in person.
4) Last but certainly not the least is how variably the computer monitors reproduce images. If your monitor has color that is slightly skewed (toward the blue for example) then the reproductions of screen shots will look this way too - and you'll never know it. Having a "profiled" monitor goes a long way to help, but mostly only professional photographers (like me) will have done this.

So not to discourage anyone from posting screen shots but they need to viewed in perspective. In other words I wouldn't try and garner any more from them than how the overall TV looks and learn about the image quality from descriptions by the owners/reviewers.

Roger all that!!

If you want to see it, arrange and Demo at a store and go see it. The photos, which I personally hope could be either links only or put in the photos thread, are only really helpful in comparison.
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post #544 of 3779 Old 09-11-2008, 10:34 AM
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Can anyone who has seen the 950 or has the 950 comment on the reviews that say that viewing angles are not very good?

If I were to replace my 60" Sony RP LCD set any time soon, the 55" Samsung or the 60" Kuro are my top choices. I would prefer LCD for the fact that I do not have light control in the room, and have a patio window quite close to where my TV resides...
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post #545 of 3779 Old 09-11-2008, 10:35 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WRoss View Post

It's great that people are willing to take the time/effort to post photos.

However, I think that they have the potential to give mis-impressions and here's why:
1) Maintaining image integrity from capture though final viewing is extremely difficult even when photographing a bowl of fruit. At each step the color spectrum and balance needs to be quantified and inconsistencies anywhere in the chain will produce inaccurate results. A quick example of what I'm talking about is how when most people take photos inside under tungsten lighting then the color balance will tend to become very yellowish unless this fully accounted for and adjustments are made.
2) The quality of the camera & lens can be critical. The old computer motto - "garbage in, garbage out" really applies here.
3) The color spectrum that is possible over the Internet usually has limitations that diminish an accurate portrayal of how the actual source appears in person.
4) Last but certainly not the least is how variably the computer monitors reproduce images. If your monitor has color that is slightly skewed (toward the blue for example) then the reproductions of screen shots will look this way too - and you'll never know it. Having a "profiled" monitor goes a long way to help, but mostly only professional photographers (like me) will have done this.

So not to discourage anyone from posting screen shots but they need to viewed in perspective. In other words I wouldn't try and garner any more from them than how the overall TV looks and learn about the image quality from descriptions by the owners/reviewers.

Good points...BUT...

If someone was going to consider a TV based soley on someones personal pictures alone, then shame on them to begin with.

Thanks,

Spooky
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post #546 of 3779 Old 09-11-2008, 11:28 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WRoss View Post

It's great that people are willing to take the time/effort to post photos.

However, I think that they have the potential to give mis-impressions and here's why:
1) Maintaining image integrity from capture though final viewing is extremely difficult even when photographing a bowl of fruit. At each step the color spectrum and balance needs to be quantified and inconsistencies anywhere in the chain will produce inaccurate results. A quick example of what I'm talking about is how when most people take photos inside under tungsten lighting then the color balance will tend to become very yellowish unless this fully accounted for and adjustments are made.
2) The quality of the camera & lens can be critical. The old computer motto - "garbage in, garbage out" really applies here.
3) The color spectrum that is possible over the Internet usually has limitations that diminish an accurate portrayal of how the actual source appears in person.
4) Last but certainly not the least is how variably the computer monitors reproduce images. If your monitor has color that is slightly skewed (toward the blue for example) then the reproductions of screen shots will look this way too - and you'll never know it. Having a "profiled" monitor goes a long way to help, but mostly only professional photographers (like me) will have done this.

So not to discourage anyone from posting screen shots but they need to viewed in perspective. In other words I wouldn't try and garner any more from them than how the overall TV looks and learn about the image quality from descriptions by the owners/reviewers.

WRoss,

agreed, people shouldn't be looking at color reproduction especially, and it's also very easy to over-expose an image of a TV in a dark room...I made sure no whites were being clipped when I took my photos but still, the pictures definitely do no do it justice. I do think photos can be useful though, I took photos of my older LCD and you could tell that the picture looked gray in the dark. Also locking the exposure and taking a shot from an angle vs directly in front clearly can show the difference in the black levels (it doesn't accurately portray how it actually looks in life but can show the difference). And I 100% agree on the monitor calibrations, rescaling the image etc, it definitely takes away from the actual picture a lot...the rescaling for instance added that sort of pattern to the entire image (esp in the underworld shot), it's not like that on the TV at all.

anyway, if people don't want the inline pictures posted I won't post anymore.

Bazlurgan, I can do an SD test for you but I may need to re-wire my TV...I have it going through a DVDO VP50 processor so it wouldn't really be a fair test of the TV's upconverting features. But SD looks great on it via the VP50
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post #547 of 3779 Old 09-11-2008, 11:50 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PackFan View Post

Can anyone who has seen the 950 or has the 950 comment on the reviews that say that viewing angles are not very good?

If I were to replace my 60" Sony RP LCD set any time soon, the 55" Samsung or the 60" Kuro are my top choices. I would prefer LCD for the fact that I do not have light control in the room, and have a patio window quite close to where my TV resides...

I cannot go with the cnet comments on this. My couch is at about 10 to 11 ft. Recling on either end setting up laying down. Center, anywhere on the couch I see no difference. Its a 9 ft couch with dual recliners. Maybe the 46 is different but unless you go to the next recliner to the right side of the couch do you really see much differencne in the blacks.At least thats what I see on mine. Veiwing angle on this set is much better than any rear project screen
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post #548 of 3779 Old 09-11-2008, 12:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PackFan View Post

Can anyone who has seen the 950 or has the 950 comment on the reviews that say that viewing angles are not very good?

I just saw the 950 at the Samsung Experience store in NYC. In terms of comparison (I have a 52a650), viewing angles seem to be about the same with Smart LED on. With Smart LED off, viewing angles are horrible. Of course, I'm not sure why anyone would buy this set and leave Smart LED off because it defeats the whole purpose of having LED to begin with.
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post #549 of 3779 Old 09-11-2008, 12:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KDH View Post

I cannot go with the cnet comments on this. My couch is at about 10 to 11 ft. Recling on either end setting up laying down. Center, anywhere on the couch I see no difference. Its a 9 ft couch with dual recliners. Maybe the 46 is different but unless you go to the next recliner to the right side of the couch do you really see much differencne in the blacks.At least thats what I see on mine. Veiwing angle on this set is much better than any rear project screen

Maybe you are talking about daylight viewing? Angle problem should be much more prounanced in dark room.

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post #550 of 3779 Old 09-11-2008, 12:40 PM
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Maybe you are talking about daylight viewing? Angle problem should be much more prounanced in dark room.

You are joking right. My favoret time to watch tv starts at around 5pm and ends around 11 pm. except for here lately as I am still cain't get my jaw off the floor untill 3 am. And yes it is pitch black in the room.
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post #551 of 3779 Old 09-11-2008, 01:00 PM
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I agree, the "angle problem" is a non-issue...you have to be at a pretty extreme side or height to see any significant difference. A bright white item on a solid black background may have slightly more glow around it but again you have to be off to the side a fair amount before it's noticeable. One seat cushion on my couch at 10ft from the screen makes no difference.
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post #552 of 3779 Old 09-11-2008, 02:09 PM
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Originally Posted by kyler13 View Post

Since price protection was supposedly removed, has anyone tried dropping a 10% or 12% coupon at Best Buy on the 950 recently with any success?

Price protection has been removed no doubt about it.

I just got back from my local BB Magnolia. After a little back and fourth with the sales manager I scored the 55 for 4 large before tax.

I stopped in to check out the viewing angles to see just how bad they were. Off angle viewing does wash out a little but not nearly as bad as any of the pictures show in this thread. The color drop is hardly noticeable at 10-15° off center.
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post #553 of 3779 Old 09-11-2008, 02:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PackFan View Post

Can anyone who has seen the 950 or has the 950 comment on the reviews that say that viewing angles are not very good?

If I were to replace my 60" Sony RP LCD set any time soon, the 55" Samsung or the 60" Kuro are my top choices. I would prefer LCD for the fact that I do not have light control in the room, and have a patio window quite close to where my TV resides...

As I just replaced my 60" Sony RP LCD with the 55" 950 last Tuesday, I can say that the viewing angles are not a concern unless I view from extreme angles - like 45+ degrees. At that point, the blacks seem to become brighter and the overall screen seems to take on a bluish hue. I fail to see the logic in evaluating the capabilities of this set from a >45 degree angle anyhow .

I have an L shaped 5 seat couch and a love seat in the corner and cannot discern any significant delta in picture quality from any of those seats - all +/- 30 degrees off center.

As compared with my 60" Sony --- well, there really is no comparison. The brightness, blacks, sharpness --- just -- WOW! My only regret is that I lost 5 inches of screen size. It really is an impressive TV.

Check it out in-person if you can, or, you can take a flier on it sight unseen based on all of the positive reviews - either way, I doubt you'll be disappointed.

Good luck with your decision.
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post #554 of 3779 Old 09-11-2008, 06:26 PM
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Originally Posted by adrien05 View Post

Hi guys,

No body care for a comment on this one ??

I'll try to tackle this one I guess... honestly the cheaper one seems like a great deal assuming that the processing is the same. That is the one thing from the last generation that seems to be improved and really helps the sharpness (apart from the 120hz which helps a lot with the motion).

I would go look at both and compare them obviously if this is an option, but I can assure you that if Samsung sold the 950 for $1000 less in the US with just those things missing they would dominate this generation of LCDs. (fictional 55 inch LED at $4k MSRP). In fact, if they are offering it in Europe now maybe it will be more widespread later? Would be a great move to offset the hike in MSRP that we recently experienced...
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post #555 of 3779 Old 09-11-2008, 06:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by schowtyme View Post

In fact, if they are offering it in Europe now maybe it will be more widespread later? Would be a great move to offset the hike in MSRP that we recently experienced...

maybe that's why they hiked the msrp, because this one is coming out soon? who knows...would make more sense then...
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post #556 of 3779 Old 09-12-2008, 12:16 AM
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Originally Posted by TallCoolOne View Post

WRoss,

anyway, if people don't want the inline pictures posted I won't post anymore.

Bazlurgan, I can do an SD test for you but I may need to re-wire my TV...I have it going through a DVDO VP50 processor so it wouldn't really be a fair test of the TV's upconverting features. But SD looks great on it via the VP50

If it's going to be a problem (and also if photos are frowned upon, don't worry).

Unfortunately, not all of us have access to a showroom in which to review these sets. I unfortunately live in a relative remote place, with NO av stores of any note at all. Arranging to travel to a store requires a plane trip and an overnight stay, and is relatively expensive. As such I HAVE to base my purchases on what I read and see online... (I also have to order online and arrange delivery - which also adds to the expense) As such, photo's are video (even if they do not 100% represent the PQ) are still a blessing to me.

What I have been reading, however, has been very promising - keep up the comments guys
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post #557 of 3779 Old 09-12-2008, 04:07 AM
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Originally Posted by Bazlurgan View Post

If it's going to be a problem (and also if photos are frowned upon, don't worry).

Unfortunately, not all of us have access to a showroom in which to review these sets. I unfortunately live in a relative remote place, with NO av stores of any note at all. Arranging to travel to a store requires a plane trip and an overnight stay, and is relatively expensive. As such I HAVE to base my purchases on what I read and see online... (I also have to order online and arrange delivery - which also adds to the expense) As such, photo's are video (even if they do not 100% represent the PQ) are still a blessing to me.

What I have been reading, however, has been very promising - keep up the comments guys

to help you out, I will try to post some more pics tonight. Especially some dark ones to make he blacks really look great.
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post #558 of 3779 Old 09-12-2008, 06:22 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Bazlurgan View Post

If it's going to be a problem (and also if photos are frowned upon, don't worry).

Unfortunately, not all of us have access to a showroom in which to review these sets. I unfortunately live in a relative remote place, with NO av stores of any note at all. Arranging to travel to a store requires a plane trip and an overnight stay, and is relatively expensive. As such I HAVE to base my purchases on what I read and see online... (I also have to order online and arrange delivery - which also adds to the expense) As such, photo's are video (even if they do not 100% represent the PQ) are still a blessing to me.

What I have been reading, however, has been very promising - keep up the comments guys

No-one has a problem with photos, I personally hope they are put into the "Review of Samsung LN46950 Pictures and Videos" thread, so this owners comments etc. are not polluted by huge pictures which end up being 'quoted' ad infinitum



http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1057727
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post #559 of 3779 Old 09-12-2008, 08:13 AM
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That is pretty lame that you can’t access LED Motion Plus in any mode other than movie which to me is always too dim. I was all ready to e-bay my 650 for one of these bad boys, but I really want to use AMP and LED Motion Plus at the same time in a mode that also provides a good picture. I don’t see why Samsung limited this feature to that mode. Hopefully they will change this limitation in a firmware update. But as it stands to do what I want to do with one of these I would have to basically A) go into the service menu and adjust the gamma levels and run the display only in movie modes and B) run sources through a external video processor to make movie mode look as good as standard modes. I think that this would provide an unparallel viewing experience but the price tag for a DVDO Edge and a 55” 950 would be quite daunting (maybe worth it though). Also I pretty much use my TV for playing MMORPGs so I would be a bit worried about lag due to all this processing. But MMOs aren’t really split second response time dependant most of the time.
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post #560 of 3779 Old 09-12-2008, 09:09 AM
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Originally Posted by slumpey326 View Post

to help you out, I will try to post some more pics tonight. Especially some dark ones to make he blacks really look great.

Much appreciated m8
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post #561 of 3779 Old 09-12-2008, 10:41 AM
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Don't know if anyone posted this yet...

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...036746&page=14

Looks like the 46" XBR8 has 112 zones of 4 RGB clusters. The 55" XBR8 having 170 zones of 4 RGB clusters!
http://www.ecat.sony.co.jp/products/...-55XR1_005.jpg
http://akamaipix.crutchfield.com/pro...backlight.jpeg

The 950 has 96 clusters if I remember correctly. Not sure if this was the 46" or the 55" model, though.

(Links taken from AVS member: MUGEN)
*Edit - got zones and clusters mixed up
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post #562 of 3779 Old 09-12-2008, 11:43 AM
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Originally Posted by dirthawg View Post

Price protection has been removed no doubt about it.

I just got back from my local BB Magnolia. After a little back and fourth with the sales manager I scored the 55 for 4 large before tax.

I stopped in to check out the viewing angles to see just how bad they were. Off angle viewing does wash out a little but not nearly as bad as any of the pictures show in this thread. The color drop is hardly noticeable at 10-15° off center.

I just came back from tweeter - where they said that samsung's policy meant the opposite. In order to avoid any mod warnings regarding forum restrictions with respect to pricing/where to buy discussions, I just posted similar info here.

Hopefully avs lurkers/members interested in this set can add to the discussion there.
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post #563 of 3779 Old 09-12-2008, 01:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Manaburn View Post

But as it stands to do what I want to do with one of these I would have to basically A) go into the service menu and adjust the gamma levels and run the display only in movie modes and B) run sources through a external video processor to make movie mode look as good as standard modes. I think that this would provide an unparallel viewing experience but the price tag for a DVDO Edge and a 55” 950 would be quite daunting (maybe worth it though).

Before you go blow several hundred/thousand dollars on a VP just for this reason, note some things. I have a DVDO VP50 and I can't get Movie mode to look and behave like say Standard or Dynamic mode via the VP50. Remember that your VP would go in the chain before the TV. Turning the brightness up for instance in the DVDO's picture settings just gives a more gray look to the whole image. Similarly the contrast settings in the VP don't give the same pop the TV's setting does. I played with it for a while and it only makes it look worse. The VP is best for scaling, de-interlacing, and framerate adjustments like 3:2 pulldown, etc, not for color adjustments (although maybe a different VP is).

Also, I did some tests with LED Motion Plus (LMP). The DVDO has a test pattern which is a thick white bar that moves across the screen (left to right and back). It is a good test for motion blur and judder. With my old Sharp LCD the bar was clearly blurry. With the Sammy it is much better. Personally, I like it better with LMP set to OFF. Although LMP makes it look like it has more solid sharp edges, it causes a slightly ghosted version of the bar. Without LMP the bar isn't as sharp but looks like 1 bar. Also, LMP makes the picture even dimmer, making Movie mode way too dim to be even watchable IMO.
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post #564 of 3779 Old 09-12-2008, 03:54 PM
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I just purchased the 46" 950 for $2200 and 46" 4681F for $1400 both brand new (the 4681F is for my roommate). They will arrive probably next week at the earliest. I got the TVs through my employee discount (I work for samsung).

I will hopefully get a chance to compare both TVs side by side.

What should I be looking for specifically? I have at my disposal a PS3 and Xbox 360.

thanks.
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post #565 of 3779 Old 09-12-2008, 04:02 PM
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how did you get the 46a950 for that low
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post #566 of 3779 Old 09-12-2008, 04:09 PM
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I just purchased the 46" 950 for $2200

wow the 950 has a 1200$ markup? thats freakin insane


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post #567 of 3779 Old 09-12-2008, 04:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 370z View Post

Don't know if anyone posted this yet...

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...036746&page=14

Looks like the 46" XBR8 has 112 zones of 4 RGB clusters. The 55" XBR8 having 170 zones of 4 RGB clusters!
http://www.ecat.sony.co.jp/products/...-55XR1_005.jpg
http://akamaipix.crutchfield.com/pro...backlight.jpeg

The 950 has 96 clusters if I remember correctly. Not sure if this was the 46" or the 55" model, though.

(Links taken from AVS member: MUGEN)
*Edit - got zones and clusters mixed up

I thought the 950 had 64 zones, i.e. 8x8.

52" Samsung 750, finally satisfaction
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post #568 of 3779 Old 09-12-2008, 04:17 PM
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Originally Posted by slumpey326 View Post

how did you get the 46a950 for that low

He works for Samsung so I guess that is an employee big discount.

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post #569 of 3779 Old 09-12-2008, 04:21 PM
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Originally Posted by davez82 View Post

wow the 950 has a 1200$ markup? thats freakin insane

No, that's not a lot.
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post #570 of 3779 Old 09-12-2008, 05:09 PM
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Originally Posted by Manaburn View Post

That is pretty lame that you can't access LED Motion Plus in any mode other than movie which to me is always too dim. I was all ready to e-bay my 650 for one of these bad boys, but I really want to use AMP and LED Motion Plus at the same time in a mode that also provides a good picture. I don't see why Samsung limited this feature to that mode. Hopefully they will change this limitation in a firmware update. But as it stands to do what I want to do with one of these I would have to basically A) go into the service menu and adjust the gamma levels and run the display only in movie modes and B) run sources through a external video processor to make movie mode look as good as standard modes. I think that this would provide an unparallel viewing experience but the price tag for a DVDO Edge and a 55 950 would be quite daunting (maybe worth it though). Also I pretty much use my TV for playing MMORPGs so I would be a bit worried about lag due to all this processing. But MMOs aren't really split second response time dependant most of the time.

Standerd and movie can be made the same brighness, useing the customer menues. Theres no difference except the presets when you go there. Once you set them to your liking they will stay. They both use the same gamma curve in the service menu. Dynamic uses no gamma curve where as the 650 750 use .095. Thats just a little brighter than off but not much. The 950 using off for dynamic and m2 in standerd,movie is almost the same as well.
So it does not matter that its limited to movie as any other mode would darken with the LMP as well. In fact a person could use movie all the time at any brightness. To get that dnile look from dynamic "if thats what your after, then set the Dynamic contrast to max and then adjust the black adjust to what suits you for that bright of a picture. But be warned the 950 is a bright mother and can make a 750 look dim setting side by side.
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