Samsung LN52A650 - calibration...please! - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 40 Old 09-05-2008, 08:19 PM - Thread Starter
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the calibration thread for this tv is ridiculously cluttered and seems to be a battle of opinions rather than actual calibration settings. can someone please direct me to the most popular calibration settings for this tv? it's such a popular tv someone out there has to have had it calibrated professionally and posted their settings?

anyone have a quick link so i don't have to read through mountains of confusing posts? thanks.
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post #2 of 40 Old 09-05-2008, 08:33 PM
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The best settings are the ones you would get by having an ISF calibrator do the work for you. Seriously every set is different and no ones settings will be right for your display. Also most people understand that the calibrators have a job and do not post their work because it is not fair to the calibrator.

If someone gave you their ISF settings that they paid $300-$500 for are you going to give them a percentage of that for doing the work for you? I don't think so.

I think this thread should be closed because there is a setting thread already and so what if it isn't going the way you want it.
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post #3 of 40 Old 09-05-2008, 10:34 PM - Thread Starter
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thank you for the very unprofessional and utterly snobbish response. i think you should be closed due to your childish attitude.
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post #4 of 40 Old 09-05-2008, 11:22 PM
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Im going to go ahead and agree with dmcfan. Go back to the calibration thread and start reading, or just enjoy your new tv with the settings that look best to you.
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post #5 of 40 Old 09-06-2008, 02:56 AM - Thread Starter
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i read through about 10 pages of that worthless thread. all it is is one person proposing settings and another person telling them they suck. it's completely useless gibberish and not worth wasting a lifetime reading through.

and by the way, with regards to this "pay a percentage for someone dumb enough to pay a calibrator" BS, when you pay $2000-$3000 on a tv, you shouldn't have to spend an extra $500 to get it to do what it's already capable of doing. if every tv is automatically shipped with it's settings screwed up just to create a nonsense job for someone called a "calibrator", that is truly a sickening scam.
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post #6 of 40 Old 09-06-2008, 03:31 AM
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all TV's are different, and everybody's settings aren't the same, even if they were all calibrated. reason being, everyone has different tastes. theres no definitive set of settings for this TV. skimming through the calibration thread, the more popular settings are CNET, Evil4Blue, zerog or Gmo0ve's. i'll also throw in a set of settings that were done by a professional calibrator for the A750 (essentially the same TV). i'm sure no one will do the research for you, but fortunately, i have them bookmarked.
zerog
ISF calibrated A750
Gmo0ve
CNET
Evil4Blue

try those and see which one you like best. one of the many good things about this TV is it looks great out of the box (in movie mode) and not much tweaking needs to be done.
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post #7 of 40 Old 09-06-2008, 03:44 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by doctorwolf View Post

thank you for the very unprofessional and utterly snobbish response. i think you should be closed due to your childish attitude.

You are the one being childish. But I do agree this thread needs to be closed.
dmcfan gave you the correct answer.
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post #8 of 40 Old 09-06-2008, 06:30 AM
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If you read through the "worthless thread," you would clearly see what the "popular" calibrations are. You would also see a link to a page where all of the "popular" calibrations are gathered. Of course the thread is filled with differing results and opinions because as was already mentioned, everyone has different tastes, viewing conditions, and likely enough of a difference in their specific television that there is no such thing as a one, perfect calibration that will suit everybody.

I specifically find it amusing that you are expecting someone to have posted their results from having a TV professionally calibrated, and then in a later post, you're ranting about the scam and total waste of money in having a television professionally calibrated. So, it's apparently a scam, unless someone else does it for you and gives you the results. Interesting.
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post #9 of 40 Old 09-06-2008, 06:52 AM
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I'm going to set up a business doing TV wall hangings. If you have your tv hung, please don't post any details how to do this as it will rob me of my business. I need to stay employed.

note sarcastic tone here
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post #10 of 40 Old 09-06-2008, 09:07 AM
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Quote:
and by the way, with regards to this "pay a percentage for someone dumb enough to pay a calibrator" BS, when you pay $2000-$3000 on a tv, you shouldn't have to spend an extra $500 to get it to do what it's already capable of doing. if every tv is automatically shipped with it's settings screwed up just to create a nonsense job for someone called a "calibrator", that is truly a sickening scam.

Welcome to the forum.

Please read- http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...9#post13698499

And- http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...0#post14436870

Consumer TVs generally offer dazzling images out of the box, using factory presets. If they didn't, the uninformed mass market consumer wouldn't buy them. What they don't offer is accurate images, as defined by imaging industry professionals and international standards organizations. Many members of this forum want their consumer TV to behave like a professional monitor, which typically costs 10 to 20 times as much, has no tuner, and is regularly calibrated in professional applications. They are looking for image fidelity (an accurate picture) and seek professional calibration services (or learn how to do the work themselves with the necessary instruments) to align their display to behave more like a professional monitor.

Your dissatisfaction with the real state of consumer video will not get you better image fidelity. Excellence in any field of interest requires greater investment in time, effort, cost, or all of these elements. If you don't think the objective of display calibration service is worth the cost, don't spend the money, or spend your money on something else that you find worthy. Giving way to frustration and resentment in the face of reality only diminishes the credibility of your judgment.

Best regards and beautiful pictures,
G. Alan Brown, President
CinemaQuest, Inc.

"Advancing the art and science of electronic imaging"
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post #11 of 40 Old 09-06-2008, 11:21 AM - Thread Starter
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Rahzel, thank you VERY much. That was exactly the type of thing I was looking for, just some quick links I could jump to and try out. The useful information to rambling commentary in that other thread is just too much to handle.

George, thank you for the respectful post. While I'm actually pretty pleased with the out-of-the-box settings on this TV, it's still hard to not have that "I know this thing looked better in the store" feeling, which I'm sure a lot of people have. I understand individual preferences, different lighting circumstances, and everything else involved in this game, but the TV looks good enough where shelling out an extra half grand to satisfy my OCD isn't worth it, especially when a forum like this exists. I just didn't realize asking a simple question in hopes of getting straight data (which Rahzel provided) was going to lead to a laughable lecture in consumer ethics from techno snobs such as dmcfan and his cronies. I'm not trying to start a war here, I'm new and just trying to get some information. I honestly did go through tons of pages of that other thread and just didn't have the time or patience to go through all 1200 posts.

You know another thing? The problems reported on this forum got me incredibly paranoid that my TV was going to arrive screwed up in some way and I'm incredibly relieved that at least the screen appears defect free (manufacturing date of august 2008). There were a couple things that caught my attention though; when the guys took it out of the box, the stand was already on it, and upon close inspection, there are quite a few scratches around the various inputs on the back panel. Are these things typical?

One more thing, and forgive me if this is noobish queston, but when I see people testing for clouding, etc, they have a blue screen. When I go to a used (but not turned on) input, the screen just stays black with the "no signal" box. How do I get the blue screen, or am I just seeing something wrong?
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post #12 of 40 Old 09-06-2008, 03:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by doctorwolf View Post

I understand individual preferences, different lighting circumstances, and everything else involved in this game, but the TV looks good enough where shelling out an extra half grand to satisfy my OCD isn't worth it, especially when a forum like this exists. I just didn't realize asking a simple question in hopes of getting straight data (which Rahzel provided) was going to lead to a laughable lecture in consumer ethics from techno snobs such as dmcfan and his cronies. I'm not trying to start a war here, I'm new and just trying to get some information. I honestly did go through tons of pages of that other thread and just didn't have the time or patience to go through all 1200 posts.

Anytime you apply someone elses settings, whether it be professionally calibrated, DIY (like myself) or the "most popular", you're banking on that all things are constant, including the TVs. It would be sweet if it were that easy but the reality is that it's not. Every aspect in the TV equation (TV, environment, components, viewing habits, etc.) play a factor and should be treated individually.

For an analogy it's like swapping DNA, thinking that we'll match up in the end. The reality is the DNA will have different characteristics from one another and by the swap you'll actually may do more harm than good. By the chance that you'll get lucky and find DNA that's close to yours, it'll still be at an alternate state. Even identical twins have differences in their DNA makeup.

I understand that some of the posts, and maybe mines too, come across a bit snobbish but it's not meant to demean. People who are serious about calibration are passionate and their only goal is to spread accurate information and debunk all others. One of the goals is to make clear that "Calibration" is not synonymous with "copying settings".

The overall goal isn't about advocating to dish out hundred of dollars to calibrate the TV. If that is not your choice, then do what others do such as purchasing calibration DVDs (DVE, Avia II, GetGray, Monster...) or use a THX certified DVD which comes with basic setup (Brightness, Contrast, Sharpness...). Only if you want to take things a bit further you can purchase equiptment such as a color meter to make calibration less subjective. For myself, who's a DIY, I'll say that calibrating the TV is challenging, fun and seriously addicting.

Lastly, the 650 settings/calibration thread (and similar threads) should really be renamed to "Post Your Settings Thread". My reasoning is that members go in there thinking by copying another member's settings is what calibration is all about; it's far from the truth. I know because I posted my (calibrated) settings there but it was never the intention to replace the need for calibration. I've made it a responsibility to inform members on the benefits of calibration and downsides to copying settings; I also make clear what the differences are between the two. The more of us who spread the word the closer everyone is to the goal, or should I say standard?

Version #3: My (current) settings for Samsung LNxxA650
Let's make this clear: Calibration IS NOT synonymous with copying settings!
Join the Samsung LCD Owners Social Group! :)
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post #13 of 40 Old 09-07-2008, 01:53 AM - Thread Starter
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great points man. i truly do understand the theory of "everyone's tv is different", but i also understand that when i've done this in the past with different tvs, it's actually played out well, so call it luck or what not, but i'm just curious to try some quick alternative options.

it's funny though, i used things like the THX helper and it is just so damn subjective. you see something like "adjust the white until you see all shades of white", and when you originally start it looks all white, then you back the color off and recognize the other colors, and then you actually start looking for the disparities and reconie them further and further to the point where you originally started and beyond, and it's just a mind game. i'll give to samsung, all settings i've tried so far i've ended up going back to the factory presets, but this is the type of thing that can drive someone nuts. i swear when you over analyze these things, your mind can start playing tricks on you as to what is actually better or worse. it makes me wish i never even came across this forum lol. truly one of the most OCD experiences i have ever dived into.
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post #14 of 40 Old 09-07-2008, 02:22 PM
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If you're measuring by eye it will be even more subjective.

The brightess white should be viewed at a comfortable level. If you find yourself straining or have a difficult time distinguishing the other shades of white it's probably because your value is set too high.

Version #3: My (current) settings for Samsung LNxxA650
Let's make this clear: Calibration IS NOT synonymous with copying settings!
Join the Samsung LCD Owners Social Group! :)
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post #15 of 40 Old 09-07-2008, 03:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by doctorwolf View Post

and by the way, with regards to this "pay a percentage for someone dumb enough to pay a calibrator" BS, when you pay $2000-$3000 on a tv, you shouldn't have to spend an extra $500 to get it to do what it's already capable of doing. if every tv is automatically shipped with it's settings screwed up just to create a nonsense job for someone called a "calibrator", that is truly a sickening scam.

Wow you should have a great time fitting in here. Who is childish?

Anyways............. Maybe I just don't have a $3k display. Maybe I want the other $5k of equipment I own to work to its best. Did you ever think of that? The calibrator I used doesn't do just video but the audio as well. Since I have paid about $8k for all of my equipment, yeah spending $500 is nothing.
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post #16 of 40 Old 09-10-2008, 07:47 AM
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I too can identify with Doctorwolf's frustration.

As we step into a whole new caliber of quality we don't expect to have to open the hood, take out the tools and have to get a mechanic to work on our car before we can drive it as its brand new and a good name right?

Our old TV's got by with a few simple adjustments and now all of a sudden we have tons of adjustments and unless you get all of them right, the picture is not right?.... I too felt this way and this frustration.

Then when you try to get some advice as to how to bore site it and get it in the ballpark, the reply's seem to come forth from the professionals who feed on calibration as their livelihood rather than just trying to offer some good tips and settings to get started. They almost seem to take offense that you would try to skirt around them and save the money to get your TV looking good that already cost you thousands of dollars!

Electronic parts have a crazy leeway of tolerance in part quality and calibration... therefore its hard to say what will be the results of the product when its released into the home.
But maybe the manufacturers need to step up to the plate and narrow those tolerances with better parts tested and QA'd beforehand!

The public expects that when they spend "10 times" what they ever spent on a TV before that it shouldn't be 10 times the trouble, but rather 10 times less right?.. as in software, I think many units are released before adequate testing has been done and we get to be the beta testers.

Anyway... as I searched for settings, I discovered that many of the settings are so complex they aren't practicle to utilize for the normal Joe.

We need settings that don't reinvent the wheel, but rather tweak and capitalize on the technology that's already there.

I realize settings cannot be copied to another unit and be expected to achieve the same results, but sometimes people just need to get their TV "bore sighted" so they can go home and fine tune it themselves.

Here are some settings I am pleased with for my LN52A650 that fit my taste for crisp realism, but you may not like them.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1064965

* The second mouse gets the cheese.
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post #17 of 40 Old 09-10-2008, 07:52 AM
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The other thing that may be happening is the different channels seem to broadcast differently. While skin tones may be perfect, you go to a commercial and their trashed, or even another channel.
Heck I've even see two people standing side by side and one looks too red and the other looks perfect or too pale.

I enjoy looking at panels or crowds of people to see all skin tones at once.. but even that can be deceptive as the lights the camera crew is using can alter everything.

For me.. I just go to the major HD shows and go for the major and ignore the minor.

Even professional calibration will not correct the bad broadcast we see from channel to channel.

* The second mouse gets the cheese.
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post #18 of 40 Old 09-13-2008, 07:28 AM
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Lots of settings on my new LN52A650, that's for sure. I guess it's a mixed blessing.

I used the CNET movie settings and watched my old "Gladiator" DVD using my cheapo Samsung 1080P7 DVD player and the clarity was astounding. It looked like HD to me.

One thing I have noticed on this Sammy LCD is that it often looks like daytime soap TV. Maybe that's because it's so clear. I'm sure I'm not using correct techie jargon, so please bear with me - but is there a way to reduce that effect, or should I be happy about it?

thanks
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post #19 of 40 Old 09-13-2008, 09:51 AM
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Its a blessing if you truly attempt to tackle a formal calibration.

I have firmware 2002.2 and I tried those CNET settings... although its tough to make this TV actually look bad, I thought there was an every so slight "green" tinge to everything... very soft and pretty.... but I prefer a bit more bold and crisp.But the skin tones seemed terrific!

Not sure what you mean my Soap Opera unless your referring to all the close up scenes where you can see the details.... if so, I really like that feature, but all thats adjustable..... while in Dynamic mode, DNIE set to on brings in allot of that detail, but its obtainable other ways too if you just tweak with things...

However the Cnet settings seemed rather soft to me.. probrably because there was zero sharpness. I prefer around 80.. but the whole picture is a bit dark for me....but it may be what you like.... I have 3 windows to my right and one to my left that lets light in during the day.

The Dynamic mode is overblast "for me" in brightness and contrast and I prefer it toned down.. but I do like the detail it brings... some may prefer less sharpness than I have suggested.

I will be trying some settings from others to see which fits best... When I started I had no guide to help me other than my own fiddling.. then when I found links of how to adjust, there was little that was simple enough to tackle without a formal education first!... so I did the best I could.

But the more I learn, the more I will try tweaking... I ordered the calibration disk and I hope I'm not opening a can of worms by doing so.

I realize its hard enough to do that many of the avid tweakers prefer to take settings from the few that have mastered it rather than do it themselves... so it can't be too easy, but I"m not afraid to try as many things are not as hard as they appear at first.

If you have the patience to wade through this extremely long thread, you will learn allot and its about things specific to your unit... it will prepare you for the calibration thread if you dare to venture there as those who stalk that domain seem to have little patience with those that are too green and know little as its gets wearisome to answer the same questions over and over and tolerate the varying points of view from the newbies... so be prepared if you go there.

* The second mouse gets the cheese.
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post #20 of 40 Old 09-24-2008, 12:58 PM
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Ordered my 650, this is a great thread.
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post #21 of 40 Old 09-27-2008, 04:31 AM
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good thread

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post #22 of 40 Old 10-01-2008, 10:45 AM
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Great thread, I got my 650 yesterday. It is amazing, so amazing I am scared to change any settings . Quick question,if I do adjust any settings and dont like how it turns out, is there a factory reset I can hit?
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post #23 of 40 Old 10-01-2008, 11:30 AM
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Just browse around in there and look.... every section has a reset.
And each "input" has settings unique to the other inputs.

Its pretty user friendly.. even for non tweakers.

* The second mouse gets the cheese.
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post #24 of 40 Old 10-01-2008, 01:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by windstrings View Post

Just browse around in there and look.... every section has a reset.
And each "input" has settings unique to the other inputs.

Its pretty user friendly.. even for non tweakers.

Thanks man. I kind of feel like its a big cna of worms and once I start tweaking it will be a never ending process . I really just want some subtle changes that have a great effect for watching tv/movies (no BD player yet but I have digital cable).

Is there a common tweak, maybe zeroG's that everyone uses?
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post #25 of 40 Old 10-01-2008, 02:45 PM
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Try my setting but I do not know if it will work with 52 inch set because this setting is designed for 40 inch set (LN40A650). Try it out, you might like it or not. Keep in mind that everbody have a different personal preference.

For HD (Look great on 360 & PS3)

--Picture menu
Mode: Movie
Backlight: 6
Contrast: 78
Brightness: 68
Sharpness: 28
Color: 56
Tint: G48/R52

Detailed settings submenu
Black adjust: Med
Dynamic contrast: Off
Gamma: 0
Color space: Auto
White Balance: All 25
Flesh tone: 0
Edge enhancement: On (Add sharpness to font & closed caption)
xvYCC: Off

Picture options submenu
Color tone: Warm1
Size: 16:9
Digital NR: Off
DNIe: [grayed out]
HDMI black level: [grayed out]
Film mode: Off
Blue only mode: Off
Auto motion plus 120Hz: Off (Set on low/medium for any sports program)

--Setup menu
Entertainment: Off
Energy saving: Off

____________________________________________________________


For SDTV source

--Picture menu
Mode: Movie
Backlight: 6
Contrast: 78
Brightness: 54
Sharpness: 24
Color: 52
Tint: G50/R50

Detailed settings submenu
Black adjust: Med
Dynamic contrast: Off
Gamma: 0
Color space: Auto
White Balance: All 25
Flesh tone: 0
Edge enhancement: On
xvYCC: Off

Picture options submenu
Color tone: Warm1
Size: 4:3
Digital NR: Off
DNIe: [grayed out]
HDMI black level: [grayed out]
Film mode: Off
Blue only mode: Off
Auto motion plus 120Hz: Always Off

--Setup menu
Entertainment: Off
Energy saving: Off

ÂOh, youÂre talking to me all wrong! ItÂs the wrong tone. You do it again, IÂll stab you in the face with a soldering iron.  Christopher Walken
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post #26 of 40 Old 10-01-2008, 04:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BucBrew View Post

Thanks man. I kind of feel like its a big cna of worms and once I start tweaking it will be a never ending process . I really just want some subtle changes that have a great effect for watching tv/movies (no BD player yet but I have digital cable).

Is there a common tweak, maybe zeroG's that everyone uses?

Every setting I've tried I could live with as they all look good.
I'm still tweaking mine and I think it takes time for your alertness of what you like to "jell". For instance.. I've bumped my sharpness down from my posted settings a bit and like it a bit better.

This is a very long thread and I was overwhelmed with all the advice and settings.. so I tried to use the Dynamic mode to make a quick easy setting that looked great... I think I've accomplished that... however if you want the subtle perfections of calibration or more detailed tweaks, you'll just have to try some settings that are posted and see what you think.

Its hard to go wrong with any of these settings when your new as they all look good, but the longer you have your set, the pickier you will get......

* The second mouse gets the cheese.
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post #27 of 40 Old 10-01-2008, 04:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by windstrings View Post

Every setting I've tried I could live with as they all look good.
I'm still tweaking mine and I think it takes time for your alertness of what you like to "jell". For instance.. I've bumped my sharpness down from my posted settings a bit and like it a bit better.

This is a very long thread and I was overwhelmed with all the advice and settings.. so I tried to use the Dynamic mode to make a quick easy setting that looked great... I think I've accomplished that... however if you want the subtle perfections of calibration or more detailed tweaks, you'll just have to try some settings that are posted and see what you think.

Its hard to go wrong with any of these settings when your new as they all look good, but the longer you have your set, the pickier you will get......

I agree with you 100% because when I first got my Panasonic plasma TV the picture already looked very good out of the box with little adjustment. But this Sammy TV does not look good out of the box so that require you to overhaul the default setting. It took me more than a month to get best picture setting.

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post #28 of 40 Old 10-02-2008, 08:15 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bonecrusher52 View Post

Try my setting but I do not know if it will work with 52 inch set because this setting is designed for 40 inch set (LN40A650). Try it out, you might like it or not. Keep in mind that everbody have a different personal preference.

For HD (Look great on 360 & PS3)

--Picture menu
Mode: Movie
Backlight: 6
Contrast: 78
Brightness: 68
Sharpness: 28
Color: 56
Tint: G48/R52

Detailed settings submenu
Black adjust: Med
Dynamic contrast: Off
Gamma: 0
Color space: Auto
White Balance: All 25
Flesh tone: 0
Edge enhancement: On (Add sharpness to font & closed caption)
xvYCC: Off

Picture options submenu
Color tone: Warm1
Size: 16:9
Digital NR: Off
DNIe: [grayed out]
HDMI black level: [grayed out]
Film mode: Off
Blue only mode: Off
Auto motion plus 120Hz: Off (Set on low/medium for any sports program)

--Setup menu
Entertainment: Off
Energy saving: Off

____________________________________________________________


For SDTV source

--Picture menu
Mode: Movie
Backlight: 6
Contrast: 78
Brightness: 54
Sharpness: 24
Color: 52
Tint: G50/R50

Detailed settings submenu
Black adjust: Med
Dynamic contrast: Off
Gamma: 0
Color space: Auto
White Balance: All 25
Flesh tone: 0
Edge enhancement: On
xvYCC: Off

Picture options submenu
Color tone: Warm1
Size: 4:3
Digital NR: Off
DNIe: [grayed out]
HDMI black level: [grayed out]
Film mode: Off
Blue only mode: Off
Auto motion plus 120Hz: Always Off

--Setup menu
Entertainment: Off
Energy saving: Off

hey there...

I see you turn of 120hz setting... is this typical? is it even worth getting the 120hz version if all I will be using this for will be xbox360 gaming and HTPC movie viewing?

thanks
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post #29 of 40 Old 10-02-2008, 08:25 AM
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120hz can never be turned off. The tv is always running 120hz. AMP is just a special setting.
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post #30 of 40 Old 10-02-2008, 09:29 AM
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I agree, it's a nice thread! I also just purchased my LN52A650 and am a n00b at calibration; therefore, having a few calibration settings on the side is a good thing.
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