Official Sony XBR8 Series Owner's Thread - Page 13 - AVS | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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Old 10-26-2008, 09:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GermanMan View Post

Ok, finally went out to 'have a first look' at the new sets. From my short visit, looking at the xbr6 and xbr8 for about 10 mins each, not in the same room either, I really could not see a significant difference in the two picture qualities. Of course the dealer was running the wrong film to show off the xbr8 (no blacks or dark areas in the picture), but I"m not seeing how the xbr8 is worth anywhere near as much over the xbr6 as the pricing suggests.

In bright rooms, pretty much all good LCDs will look good, but compare it in a very dark room & the advantage the XBR8 in black levels & contrast will be monstrous.
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Old 10-26-2008, 10:06 PM
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Has any new owners played any more 360 or PS3 games? I am still concerned about game lag. I know that the CNET Review mentioned to turn game mode on, but I have not heard of any confirmation that if it turns off some of the better functions of this new set.

-Hawkmoon
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Old 10-26-2008, 10:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by simplemath View Post

These still images have great colour and contrast,....but the moire vertical bands are insane. When you see the tv live is it covered with these lines, or is it caused from the digital picture taken? Maybe its the content?

If the tv looks like the pictures here, I'd be very unhappy.

The 2nd picture was taken at extreme closeup in order to demonstrate the lack of blooming; the entire picture at is only looking at about 1/8 of the whole screen. You most definitely cannot see any vertical banding at normal viewing distances.

yawn....
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Old 10-26-2008, 11:31 PM
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Originally Posted by Hawkmoon View Post

Has any new owners played any more 360 or PS3 games? I am still concerned about game lag. I know that the CNET Review mentioned to turn game mode on, but I have not heard of any confirmation that if it turns off some of the better functions of this new set.

Game mode turns virtually all the processing off, including Local Dimming We have yet to find out how much lag there is with everything but Local Dimming turned off (as that is the important bit as far as extra processing goes).
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Old 10-26-2008, 11:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by simplemath View Post

These still images have great colour and contrast,....but the moire vertical bands are insane. When you see the tv live is it covered with these lines, or is it caused from the digital picture taken? Maybe its the content?

If the tv looks like the pictures here, I'd be very unhappy.

The "banding" in those pics, is produced by the camera and not the tv itself. If you have a digicam, take some pics of your current tv, you will see banding in most if not all your pics.
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Old 10-27-2008, 02:44 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GermanMan View Post

Ok, finally went out to 'have a first look' at the new sets. From my short visit, looking at the xbr6 and xbr8 for about 10 mins each, not in the same room either, I really could not see a significant difference in the two picture qualities. Of course the dealer was running the wrong film to show off the xbr8 (no blacks or dark areas in the picture), but I"m not seeing how the xbr8 is worth anywhere near as much over the xbr6 as the pricing suggests.

I had the same reaction. In fact, I thought the XBR6 looked better in terms of PQ than the XBR8. I visited two different Sony stores; in one the XBR6 was the featured player in the dark alcove, in the other the XBR8 was in this spot. Both were playing Transformers.
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Old 10-27-2008, 08:49 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by scottman View Post

Here is what my HP set with plastic on it looks like. It's a little dusty now, but can you tell there is a plastic film on this bezel? Even touching it, I can't tell it's there. zurbaran1, was yours on your xbr8 only noticeable if you tried to pick it off at the corners or was there any overhang?

There was no overhang and it was virtually unnoticeable. I went over it three times before I finally noticed a miniscule area ever so slightly lifted off on the top right corner. To be honest had it not come up in this thread I doubt I would ever have realized it was there.
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Old 10-28-2008, 12:14 PM
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lol, wow this bad boy slipped all the way to the 3rd page.

Still no new buyers with any comments for the XBR8?

Also, forgive me if any of you touched on this in the thread previous. Have any of the few owners noticed any motion blurring issues, with or without the motion settings on?
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Old 10-28-2008, 10:50 PM
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So... I spent an hour and a half getting all the stuff ready to mount this to my stores wall. I got it all buttoned up and ready to mount when the guy helping me put it on the wall lost his grip and dropped it from about 10 feet up. Needless to say it wasn't pretty, the plexi-glass side broke clean off and the bottom corner of the screen was completely dented in. Junking out a 7,000$ television is never fun.

So I call back to my warehouse guys and have them bring down the second one and as I walk back there to get ready to pull it out, theyre moving one of the TVs thats in the way of it. As they try to wiggle it loose from the plastic straps that were stuck to another box, it toppled over the rafter and fell from about ~35 feet up.

I wish I had a camera to photograph the mayhem that ensued. 14,000$ in junkouts later and im crying irl.
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Old 10-28-2008, 10:52 PM
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Well I just got the smaller xbr8 and I currently own the Xbr4. Let me first say that in conclusion, Its not worth that extra money to me. I have both tv's set up and configured (i transferred a lot of xbr4 configurations to the 8 because it took me 2 months to finally get it right). Playing some movies, I do and don't see a difference. I have two ps3's hooked up to both of them. One of the tvs is going in the bedroom, the other in the living room.

SD: I think the Xbr8 handles it better than the 4. I saw less pixels and artifacts running off comcast then on the 4. But it wasn't a huge difference, and only happened sometimes. this alone does not justify this tv price for me.

HD: High def. broadcasting is not always the same. Sometimes the picture is amazing and othertimes mediocre. I still think that watching the phillies game, that the XBr4 matched the picture quality. There was no visible difference whatsoever and if anything, the 4 looked better. I must however add though, that I am still not done tweaking the xbr8. So maybe, maybe it will excel.

Blu-ray: I used planet earth and Apocalypto (sorry if there are spelling errors, im writing this in a rush) and had both tvs side by side. While the picture on both is amazing, I still enjoy the XBR4 picture better. On certain scenes with the xbr8, i saw weird artifacting on a BLURAY! I have no idea what the hell this was about, but i wasn't happy. In fact, I had some similar problems with the xbr4 when i first got it. In certain scenes, (a night hunt scene), the picture would very slightly flash white in the background. It was not very noticeable, but it almost seemed like a flicker. In the case of the xbr8, the problem was of granulation that i saw during a flying sequence. This did not happen on the 4. Im hoping that it is a configuration change that will solve the problem. I only got the xbr8 two days ago. I have had the 4 for 2-3 months and have been tweaking it constantly.

Overall: I love the design of the xbr8. Its a lot nicer than the xbr4. But that is an opinion. I just think that the glass bezel of the 4 is a little excessive although it does make the tv stand out more.

I think that the xbr8 is a great tv. In fact, I will go on to say that it is the best LCD on the market. The xbr4 is no longer on the market, but if you can find one and get one, it by far exceeds any other lcd with price value. I got mine for 1739$ which was a huge steal. Brand new: not open box. That in comparison to the 4999 price tag for the xbr8 says a lot.

I will add more when i have time. please message me with any comments etc.
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Old 10-28-2008, 11:41 PM
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thanks for the comments owner divashenko...

i appreciate the unadulterated pros and cons, not to mention the bottom line that you think the set is great.

i want to suggest that for the calibration settings on the xbr8, you start with the ones on www.cnet.com , since the xbr8 and the xbr4 are such different animals. their settings made considerable difference in a number of their before and after measurements. as you probably know, they rated the xbr8 as the best lcd on the current market, so their settings must have some value.

go to the cnet review, and when he mentions "blog", click the word, it doesn't look like a link, which will take you to the blog entries on the testing including the calibration settings they used. iirc the blog is called crave.

at least it's a starting point.

look forward to seeing your additional comments when you get the time with the set.

http://reviews.cnet.com/flat-panel-t...rColumnArea1.2

FOUND IT:
http://news.cnet.com/8301-17938_105-...?tag=mncol;txt

TVbc

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Old 10-28-2008, 11:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ainlawls View Post

So... ...... 14,000$ in junkouts later and im crying irl.

damn, that is just awful. it sounds like you need to change your job application procedures and job qualification requirements to include something like...smarts.

yikes. any insurance coverage for something like that?

TVbc

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Old 10-29-2008, 07:07 AM
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Originally Posted by ainlawls View Post

So... I spent an hour and a half getting all the stuff ready to mount this to my stores wall. I got it all buttoned up and ready to mount when the guy helping me put it on the wall lost his grip and dropped it from about 10 feet up. Needless to say it wasn't pretty, the plexi-glass side broke clean off and the bottom corner of the screen was completely dented in. Junking out a 7,000$ television is never fun.

So I call back to my warehouse guys and have them bring down the second one and as I walk back there to get ready to pull it out, theyre moving one of the TVs thats in the way of it. As they try to wiggle it loose from the plastic straps that were stuck to another box, it toppled over the rafter and fell from about ~35 feet up.

I wish I had a camera to photograph the mayhem that ensued. 14,000$ in junkouts later and im crying irl.

Wtf?! Are you kidding? That's just crazy man.
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Old 10-29-2008, 07:13 AM
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Wow $7k and still cant beat the Kuro!

Looks amazing though and the desgin is really awesome but i can't justify paying $7k i'll just get a Elite.
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Old 10-29-2008, 08:26 AM
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Originally Posted by TVbc View Post

damn, that is just awful. it sounds like you need to change your job application procedures and job qualification requirements to include something like...smarts.

yikes. any insurance coverage for something like that?

TVbc

Nope, pure loss.
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Old 10-29-2008, 05:20 PM
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That comes right out of your bottom line. I imagine your GM was elated.
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Old 10-29-2008, 06:38 PM
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As for the XBR, I had the chance to take a quick look at it today. I will say, that this panel definitely outperforms any LCD when it comes to off axis viewing angles. Again, this was a brief viewing, but I noticed that it does crush blacks. No where near as bad as the Samsung, but crushed nonetheless.

When I get the chance to see it again, I'll see what I can do as far as adjustments to achieve "visual" linearity to improve gamma.
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Old 10-29-2008, 08:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by divashenko View Post

Well I just got the smaller xbr8 and I currently own the Xbr4. Let me first say that in conclusion, Its not worth that extra money to me. I have both tv's set up and configured (i transferred a lot of xbr4 configurations to the 8 because it took me 2 months to finally get it right). Playing some movies, I do and don't see a difference.

Kinda hard to swallow. Can you post pictures of the two sets to prove that?
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Old 10-29-2008, 09:14 PM
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Originally Posted by wtfer View Post

Kinda hard to swallow. Can you post picturesof the two sets to prove that?

I too find this hard to believe, as the 8 was right next to a 5, and the difference was not in the least miniscule.
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Old 10-29-2008, 09:26 PM
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Originally Posted by wtfer View Post

Kinda hard to swallow. Can you post picturesof the two sets to prove that?

i don't think it's hard to believe at all.

first, it's his eyes, his wants, his opinion.

second, it could very well be the way the tv's are set up, both the environment(s) AND especially the settings. in particular, if you look at the geek box of the cnet review of the xbr8 -- the AFTER calibration measurements are significantly different (better) than the BEFORE calibration measurements (i.e. out of the box settings), which alone might explain the difference here. and don't forget he is now used to and likes the picture of the xbr4 now.

plus, as if remember his 'review', it ends with definite positive statments about the xbr8. and please, pictures? that won't prove nothin one way or the other, not on my laptop and with that crappy little digital camera he has ( )

my position -- i want opinions from owners -- of which this thread has precious little. so bravo ... keep 'em coming

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Old 10-30-2008, 12:09 AM
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Yes. Im sorry to say it may be hard to swallow. I bought both sets. I love the XBR series. If i didn't love the 8 and thought the Samsung 950 would do a better job, i would have bought it. But I didn't. The 8 is no doubt a great LCD. It is the best on the market. But then, people always think because you pay more you get more and that simply isn't true. LED technology is not perfected and neither are the computer systems in place which read all of the information and then decide how to best display blacks. You will be missing some details using LED. Look at a variety of reviews on LED technology and you will come across the same hard facts.

I don't have time to sit back and post pictures, and I also think that I wouldn't be able to do a good enough job of it anyway. I have been calibrating my xbr8 every day and every free hour, and I am happy with the TV. It is an amazing LCD. All I am saying, is that if I was sitting here with an XBR4 and my neighbor had an XBR8 I would not be jealous. The difference still does not exist on blu-ray, and the XBR8 LED TECHNOLOGY has created problems watching a variety of movies. Now, the average user will not see these issues. But they are there. The blacks, while being super black, also sometimes cover up details that the XBR4 displays. Also, I dont get what the obsession is with super black. They are both black. My xbr4, when set correctly with proper backlights blends into the black cover on the outside of it. THATS BLACK. If you want it any more black, then i guess the xbr8 is worth it? Although i think thats insane. Now, I dont own a 5-6-7xbr so i dont know what to tell you about any of those tvs. I do know that the XBR8 is supposed to be the flagship model. And while it kills any other brand of LCD on the market, it doesnt add up to a 5K pricetag. Sorry if you don't believe me. I know you want to believe that this will be the best TV you have ever seen without any issues, but its not so. ITs just technology.

Oh and PS. CNET settings are not the best things you will ever see in your life. Everyone is always saying here are the ultimate settings. Although some settings have a distinct difference when used, a lot of them vary on where and how your viewing. Also, how important some things are compared to others. For example, I use detail enchancer. On any blu ray or HD movie, when paused, you can see the fine detail being added and it making everything look REALLY sharp. I LOVE THAT. Some people don't think its good because it makes it look unnatural. Also, the enchancer does add slightly moving patterns on fine lines, like someone that has a really detailed tie or something like that. If you think that the XBR8 doesn't have this same exact issue, Im sorry to tell you that it does. I have been trying, but it looks like Sony still hasn't perfected it.

Finally, if you got 5k, want an amazing LCD, buy the XBR8. If you want to be smart, use your money wisely and still go out and get some beers at the end of the day, find a used XBR4 and I guarantee people will still be like "Damn thats a good picture".

XBR8- Great Tv. Too High Price. And Sorry everyone, not that much has changed.
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Old 10-30-2008, 11:50 AM
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Here is my test of the Sony:

White Balance - Standard



White Balance - Movie



White Balance - Movie (angepasst)




I did not spend a lot on time on improving this already great result. I am quite positive it is possible to improve the lower end of the curves.

Gamma
The color Gamma explains why white balance ends up being so good:



[b]Please note that gamma was tested with full screen patterns. Using windowed patterns would have yielded a flat curve.

Farbraum - Kino

Those of you have have read the CNET test already know that the Sony delivers quite accurate primaries. The secondaries are slightly off, though, and it also seems the set I tested had a larger error in blue than observed in the CNET Test. THe other two primaries were almost perfectly spoton.




Here are the xy deltas:
Rot: 0.002
Green: 0.001
Blue: = 0.14
Yellow: 0.09
Cyan: 0.07
Magenta: 0.011

As a comparison, those are the post-calibration deltas on the Samsung A956:
Rot: 0.004
Green: 0.003
Blue: = 0.004
Yellow: 0.002
Cyan: 0.003
Magenta: 0.000

Out-of-the-box, the Sony probably produces the better picture. White balance is absolutely astounding on the Sony, taking advantage of its RGB LED's and color space is very good.

As far as I could tell, the Sony exhibitted less Blooming than the A956 I tested a few weeks ago and the viewing angle was slightly better.

Ich was only able to test 720p so I cannot make qualified comments on either scaling or deinterlacing. Also, I did not have time to test input lag.

In short: both the Sony X4500 and the Samsung A956 are excellent LCD's. The Sony probably leaves a better impression because it requires less time spent on calibrating! But if you feel like saving some money, there is nothing wrong with the Samsung.

I probably still give the Sony the edge post-calibration because in my view white balance plays a bigger role in overall picture quality than perfect chromaticities.
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Old 10-30-2008, 03:42 PM
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"Blu-ray: I used planet earth and Apocalypto (sorry if there are spelling errors, im writing this in a rush) and had both tvs side by side. While the picture on both is amazing, I still enjoy the XBR4 picture better. On certain scenes with the xbr8, i saw weird artifacting on a BLURAY! I have no idea what the hell this was about, but i wasn't happy. In fact, I had some similar problems with the xbr4 when i first got it. In certain scenes, (a night hunt scene), the picture would very slightly flash white in the background. It was not very noticeable, but it almost seemed like a flicker. In the case of the xbr8, the problem was of granulation that i saw during a flying sequence. This did not happen on the 4. Im hoping that it is a configuration change that will solve the problem. I only got the xbr8 two days ago. I have had the 4 for 2-3 months and have been tweaking it constantly."

Dear Divashenko, and other owners who experienced something strange with this set's picture,
I am a happy owner of the european XBR 8 - equivalent model of sony's Braviast (the KDL-55X4500), and maybe I can suggest You something useful regarding to the quoted "issue". Its easy to provoke out this "flickering", just try to watch the opening sequence of the "Predator", or any movies' black backgrounded end credit. If You watch carefully, You can notice the aberration. Here is my experiences on calibrating this beast:
1. solution: since the screen issue is related to the backlight, one can simply switch the LED backlight off to get rid of the problem I know one of the main selling/buying points of this TV the LED backlight, so I suppose this wouldn't be a real solution most of us, so try this:
2. solution: In the white balance submenu try to lower the G GAIN at least to the -4 position. You won't mess the picture, and - at least on my TV - it 'll eleminate the problem!
Best of lucks and cheers,
Gabe
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Old 10-30-2008, 03:43 PM
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Just took delivery today. Still in the box. Will have it up and running by EOD tomorrow and will report back with my impressions.

Calibration is set with umr for 1/09.
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Old 10-30-2008, 05:11 PM
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I'm in BC, Canada and the XBR8s finally came into the SonyStyle stores here this week. I had the chance to compare the 46 and the 55 up against the lower XBR line. Spent considerable time comparing all the sets in both light and dark rooms with HD TV feed as well as BluRay running 'Transformers'.
Comparing an XBR4 to the XBR 8, the picture quality, colour, and motion are seemingly identical after calibration. The big and only noticable difference here is the contrast ratio. The XBR8s blow away the XBR4 and make the 4's darkest blacks look very blue. I did not see enough colour bleeding nor off angle viewing issues that would cause me any concern. I was hoping to see improved motion/panning on the XBR8 but I cannot discern any difference with my eyes. Verdict... The XBR8 is without a doubt the best LCD on the market at present, and kicks an XBR4s butt with its incredible blacks.. there is an immediately noticeable difference. If I can find any fault with these new 8's its with their rediculous speakers, and the ludicrous pricepoint for them. The 46" XBR8 for example is not worth over $3K more than the XBR4.. No Way. Sony, you need to significantly lower your price on these sets.
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Old 10-30-2008, 06:06 PM
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Its funny that everyone talks about black levels. Take your XBR4, turn off your backlight, adjust the colors properly and the white balance, make sure your brightness is correct, then put it next to the xbr8. I have done this already. Maybe the xbr8 is a little more black, but man i think the xbr4 is pretty damn close. There is no goddamn way that if you did a blind test on both screens, that you would truly be like oh yes, this is the xbr8 and this is the xbr4. Just because a company releases a new model a year later, doesnt mean the world is going to chance in terms of the technology.

I do agree that maybe the blacks are slightly blacker, but no way do they make the xbr4 blacks blue.

-happy owner of the xbr4, xbr8 and sharp aquos (my first LCD)
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Old 10-30-2008, 06:44 PM
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I have been following this thread since day one but haven't had anything to add until today. I stopped but the Sony Style store and spent about a half hour evaluating the XBR8 (55"). I'm on the waiting list for the 46" (I can't fit the 55" into the space I have). It's a difficult decision whether to buy one of these lcds.
The store manager said they sold 3 - 55" lcds to date. He also said that even though Sony stock is down some 75% and we are in a "bad" economy, the price probably won't change. I tend to believe he's right. I have a friend who is an lcd wholesaler and it was interesting to hear how Sony was watching the market before announcing pricing. I would say I have a very critical eye and opinion given I'm a cinematographer. Sony seems to like to play Transformers on this lcd. I'm not surprised as it is a very well produced movie. It looked great on the XBR8. I am not the biggest fan of the motion enhancer. I think I preffered the "clear" setting but didn't have enough time to compare the different modes as well as simply turning it off. The colors and blacks were impressive. I thought the off-axis viewing was pretty good. I can see why the reflections would bother some viewers. As I work with the concept of motion everyday I could see a few minor negative nuances that most (I would think) viewers won't notice. Although many on these forums I'm sure would. I think I have to be realistic with the current state of technology if I want to buy a new lcd now. The XBR8 is quite the lcd. Is it the best ever, maybe. It is expensive, oh yes. Will most content look great on this lcd, I think so. will there be a better model coming soon, I think we all know the answer. Now I have to decide whether or not to buy one. So much for doing your homework.
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Old 10-30-2008, 07:30 PM
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The XBR8-55 fits my new entertainment system - heck I designed it. My first look of XBR8-55 at the Seattle Sony Style store was awe-inspiring. I also looked at the big Kuro at Magnolia for $6000. My first comment was - I will never buy that thing. Poor brightness, and my TV space is bright.

I fear my wife's reaction - but who doesn't?
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Old 10-30-2008, 07:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by divashenko View Post

Its funny that everyone talks about black levels. Take your XBR4, turn off your backlight, adjust the colors properly and the white balance, make sure your brightness is correct, then put it next to the xbr8. I have done this already. Maybe the xbr8 is a little more black, but man i think the xbr4 is pretty damn close. There is no goddamn way that if you did a blind test on both screens, that you would truly be like oh yes, this is the xbr8 and this is the xbr4. Just because a company releases a new model a year later, doesnt mean the world is going to chance in terms of the technology.

I do agree that maybe the blacks are slightly blacker, but no way do they make the xbr4 blacks blue.

-happy owner of the xbr4, xbr8 and sharp aquos (my first LCD)

Why is it funny that everyone talks about black levels? The only really significant differentiating feature of the XBR8 over the rest of the XBR lineup is its LED backlighting which only purpose is to create a higher contrast ratio by darkening the backlighting thus offering a closer to true black background. What is the point of turning off all the backlighting on the XBR4 to compare? If anybody here wants to run the comparison yourself, goto your local Sony Store and have the salesmen put an XBR4 and XBR8 side buy side with the same video source... something in bluray widescreen so you can compare the blackness of the horizontal black bars created by the widescreen movie.. You will be surprised at how blue the XBR4 'black' looks.
That being said though, the Sony's do appear much better than their new Samsung competition, and for the time being do not have any peers in the LCD world, as long as you don't factor in price. For me, wanting to run my computer, sports, and games on my Sony, a plasma is out of the question so these XBR8s are now the best thing going that will suit my viewing requirements.
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Old 10-30-2008, 08:24 PM
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I posted this in the General FPD thread:

I had a chance to take another look at the Sony today, and I was impressed. It had very good off axis viewing angles, and colors seemed to very accurate (to my eyes of course).

I noticed a few things that I didn't like. The matte screen seems to wash out the blacks a bit, even with the Dynamic Lighting engaged. I am not saying the blacks weren't great, just that there was an odd dullness to them. Also, I could see light seapage in all four corners, and it wasn't subtle. What was the most disturbing to me, was that with the DL engaged, you could see this weird rippling effect throughout the entire screen.

If I HAD to choose, I would go with the Sony over the Samsung. People say blooming isn't a problem on the Samsung, which I have to disagree. The blooming is very bad on them (it's noticable from straight on), so is crushed blacks. Not to mention, the off axis viewing angles on the Samsung are a huge let down.

i forgot to mention, that shadow detail on the Sony was very good.
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Plasma Hdtv , Sony , Sony Bravia Xbr Kdl 46xbr8 46 Inch Triluminos Led Lcd Hdtv
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