Samsung LNxxA650 Gamer's (Input Lag) Thread - Page 16 - AVS Forum
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post #451 of 663 Old 02-28-2009, 07:47 AM
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I'm wondering if S-PVA is really the wrong type of panel technology for gaming, if this lag appears to be the case, because I have a 46" 750 here, and activating 120Hz with Medium Settings for the X360 and PS3, I hardly notice any lag when I have the motion enhancements like AMP and DNIe/Dynamic activated, maybe a couple milliseconds here and there, but that's about it. For the PC, since I have a Dell UltraSharp 24", which also uses S-PVA technology, even tho you may not necessarily have the same gadgets and gizmos of that from the A750 to make for less lag, you do, however, have SOME lag there, but I'm quite sure that there are workarounds to those.

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post #452 of 663 Old 02-28-2009, 06:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 8IronBob View Post

I'm wondering if S-PVA is really the wrong type of panel technology for gaming, if this lag appears to be the case, because I have a 46" 750 here, and activating 120Hz with Medium Settings for the X360 and PS3, I hardly notice any lag when I have the motion enhancements like AMP and DNIe/Dynamic activated, maybe a couple milliseconds here and there, but that's about it. For the PC, since I have a Dell UltraSharp 24", which also uses S-PVA technology, even tho you may not necessarily have the same gadgets and gizmos of that from the A750 to make for less lag, you do, however, have SOME lag there, but I'm quite sure that there are workarounds to those.

While VA panels are known for such, I doubt it's an issue with the LCD tech because in certain modes the lag can be removed. If it was the native tech then nothing could remove it. It's more in the overdrive and amp technology at least in this case it seems.

Enjoy that you don't notice lag in your 750. It's been reported in the owner's thread before. It's the same as the 650 if not a little higher on the 750.

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post #453 of 663 Old 03-01-2009, 07:05 AM
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Does anyone here have their Xbox 360 connected via VGA and are also using the TV Speakers? If so, are you using an adapter or can you select a different audio input and just use the standard stereo cables? Any help would be appreciated.
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post #454 of 663 Old 03-01-2009, 08:20 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by felonyr301 View Post

I also agree that dynamic contrast low on and lowered contrast on pc mode actually has the blacks really crushed compared to game mode which the blacks are not that crushed compared to pc mode dynamic contrast low.

I don't know maybe different TVs with different firmwares the game mode doesn't look good while on others its pretty good who knows?!?

I don't think the black levels are all that different, key is not to have Brightness set too low. With a Backlight of 4, a Brightness of about 44 allows for detail in the shadows. At least under PC Mode you have access to settings that allow you to tweak this.
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I agree dynamic mode in pc mode would of been better than standard mode if one had access to gamma,white balance and possibly color space setting but oh well.

I'm telling you its pretty nice having everything higher to just leave energy saver mode at medium.

For me, while I can get Energy Saving Medium with a high Backlight setting to be comparable to my preference of settings based around a Backlight of 4 and all enhancements off, I can't get it to look as good. So right now I'm finding PC Mode to be a better fit. Now if I was a PS3 gamer I wouldn't definitely make settings based around Game Mode work but I normally 360.
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post #455 of 663 Old 03-01-2009, 08:45 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cynn View Post

While VA panels are known for such, I doubt it's an issue with the LCD tech because in certain modes the lag can be removed. If it was the native tech then nothing could remove it. It's more in the overdrive and amp technology at least in this case it seems.

Enjoy that you don't notice lag in your 750. It's been reported in the owner's thread before. It's the same as the 650 if not a little higher on the 750.

Well, it all depends on the calibration, pretty much. Just so long as you have the right configuration, it'll certainly cut the lag in half, such as I have with 120Hz set to Medium, and having Dynamic/DNIe activated, I found out that this does reduce the lag to a point where it's not as noticeable. Hope this helps. Also since I have an older style X360 with the component hookup, that type of signal will probably respond better than HDMI, too. Even if there was lag, I'm not as nitpicky about it as half of them, anyway. Like that one with the PS2 that said that he was complaining about that graininess, well, I really don't care about that, since the action's fast enough to make up for it...

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post #456 of 663 Old 03-01-2009, 09:55 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 8IronBob View Post

Well, it all depends on the calibration, pretty much. Just so long as you have the right configuration, it'll certainly cut the lag in half, such as I have with 120Hz set to Medium, and having Dynamic/DNIe activated, I found out that this does reduce the lag to a point where it's not as noticeable. Hope this helps.

Not to be an ass , but it has been shown in this thread through lots of testing that using anything outside of Game Mode/HDMI2+PC mode/VGA will have basically the same amount of lag (50ms or higher) whether or not you have calibrated/turned off most TV setting "tweaks." Also, component was tested and shows to be the MOST laggy - at 80-100ms on average - while not using Game Mode. Using HDMI (non-game/PC mode) results in 50-60ms without any image enhancements on. The first post made by the OP in this thread has all of these results listed, near the bottom. Turning on AMP or anything else won't decrease lag (if anything, it will increase the lag slightly, but I think it's negligible).

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post #457 of 663 Old 03-01-2009, 06:53 PM
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Yes!, Killzone 2 demo supports 1080, runs beautifully under PC Mode. I will have to pick this up along with Star Ocean 4, that is if I ever finish Tales of Vesperia. Late to the party on that one but an amazing JRPG. When it comes to PS3 games, 1080p or 1080 scaling support is a requirement before purchase.
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post #458 of 663 Old 03-02-2009, 09:13 AM
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Really helpful thread...

I think I want to try HDMI/PC route...
I ordered a new HDMI cable for my 360...

Question.. Will I lose the functionality of hooking my laptop to the TV?
I was curious if I rename HDMI to PC, would this affect me watching a movie from my laptop on my ln52a650?

Any help would be appreciated.

Thanks...
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post #459 of 663 Old 03-02-2009, 09:33 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fjuno78 View Post

Really helpful thread...

I think I want to try HDMI/PC route...
I ordered a new HDMI cable for my 360...

Question.. Will I lose the functionality of hooking my laptop to the TV?
I was curious if I rename HDMI to PC, would this affect me watching a movie from my laptop on my ln52a650?

Any help would be appreciated.

Thanks...

There's only one input for PC mode, which is HDMI/DVI2. If you are using your Xbox360 in HDMI input 2 for PC Mode, you would have to unplug it to connect your laptop.


Sub-1080p/60fps is not next-gen.


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post #460 of 663 Old 03-02-2009, 10:06 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Doug S79 View Post

...I remember seeing the tests for HDMI, but not for VGA... Maybe I gapped. At the same time, though, I also thought I read (on here somewhere, actually) that the difference in input lag between VGA and non-Game Mode HDMI was quite a bit. Maybe I misunderstood what was going on...

OK, disregard that bit about the VGA tests... I just went back to the first page, and they're all right there. I must've been super tired the first time through that or something. It was a while ago though, so who knows. Anyway, based on the numbers in Post #1, there really doesn't appear to be much difference between VGA, HDMI2 on PC, or even HDMI/Component on Game Mode. Has anyone noticed a difference in actual usage between any of these 3 settings?


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Originally Posted by Doug S79 View Post

I've been using Game Mode for Wii, but for some reason I thought it looked too extreme when I tried it on the 360. I really only tried it for a minute or two though, to be honest. I think I'll give it another shot....

Over the weekend I finally really checked out Game Mode using the 360 and it looks better than I thought it would. At least on the few demos and games I was playing this weekend, anyway. Playing around, I actually managed to get some HDMI Standard settings, and some HDMI2 PC settings to look pretty close to identical to Game Mode on my set (LN46A530). The nice thing about that is they can be tweaked to taste, as opposed to the settings lock-down imposed by Game Mode. Obviously, the HDMI Standard will have much more lag than the PC option, but it gives a bit more control over calibration. I now have HDMI2 set on PC which still allows for some tweaking if I should feel so inclined, but if I take PC Mode off, it reverts to the Standard settings, which look almost identical but can be tweaked even more. Kinda cool. Now I just have to give VGA a try and see what settings are locked-down using that connection.

I know a lot of people hate this feature, but I found enabling Dynamic Contrast and setting it to Medium played a big part in re-creating the look of Game Mode.

What is the correct colour setting on the Xbox 360 over HDMI / PC Mode? Expanded? When PC Mode is enabled, the TV is expecting 0 - 255, correct? So if I switch PC Mode off, technically, I should switch the Xbox over to Standard? (which is around 7 - 235 or something?). That could perhaps be the slight difference I was seeing between my Standard and PC settings... I switched it to Expanded once I started playing around with PC Mode, and just left it.

Thanks for all of the input, folks! Much appreciated.

Doug
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post #461 of 663 Old 03-02-2009, 10:34 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Doug S79 View Post

OK, disregard that bit about the VGA tests... I just went back to the first page, and they're all right there. I must've been super tired the first time through that or something. It was a while ago though, so who knows. Anyway, based on the numbers in Post #1, there really doesn't appear to be much difference between VGA, HDMI2 on PC, or even HDMI/Component on Game Mode. Has anyone noticed a difference in actual usage between any of these 3 settings?




Over the weekend I finally really checked out Game Mode using the 360 and it looks better than I thought it would. At least on the few demos and games I was playing this weekend, anyway. Playing around, I actually managed to get some HDMI Standard settings, and some HDMI2 PC settings to look pretty close to identical to Game Mode on my set (LN46A530). The nice thing about that is they can be tweaked to taste, as opposed to the settings lock-down imposed by Game Mode. Obviously, the HDMI Standard will have much more lag than the PC option, but it gives a bit more control over calibration. I now have HDMI2 set on PC which still allows for some tweaking if I should feel so inclined, but if I take PC Mode off, it reverts to the Standard settings, which look almost identical but can be tweaked even more. Kinda cool. Now I just have to give VGA a try and see what settings are locked-down using that connection.

I know a lot of people hate this feature, but I found enabling Dynamic Contrast and setting it to Medium played a big part in re-creating the look of Game Mode.

What is the correct colour setting on the Xbox 360 over HDMI / PC Mode? Expanded? When PC Mode is enabled, the TV is expecting 0 - 255, correct? So if I switch PC Mode off, technically, I should switch the Xbox over to Standard? (which is around 7 - 235 or something?). That could perhaps be the slight difference I was seeing between my Standard and PC settings... I switched it to Expanded once I started playing around with PC Mode, and just left it.

Thanks for all of the input, folks! Much appreciated.

Doug

In order to get the benefit of no input lag on HDMI2, you have to keep the PC label set and the source can't be outputting 720p. I assume PC Mode is legacy so if your source is set to output RGB then you would want use Extended or Expanded. But PC Mode doesn't require a RGB source which is a bit odd. Anyway, if your source is using RGB over HDMI I would definitely set it to Extended, Expanded, or Full; you should see the difference.

As far as the Dynamic Contrast setting, I like to use a setting of Low coupled with a Contrast setting of 80 for PC Mode. This keeps the picture from looking "washed out" but also from having too much contrast. But I do think that backing off Contrast and using Dynamic Contrast is better than a Contrast of 100 and Dynamic Contrast Off. Off the top of me head I think I use the following with PC Mode:

Backlight = 4
Contrast = 80
Brightness = 42 or 45 (keep changing my mind)
Dynamic Contrast = Low
Gamma = -2
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post #462 of 663 Old 03-02-2009, 10:58 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dayton View Post

In order to get the benefit of no input lag on HDMI2, you have to keep the PC label set and the source can't be outputting 720p. I assume PC Mode is legacy so if your source is set to output RGB then you would want use Extended or Expanded. But PC Mode doesn't require a RGB source which is a bit odd. Anyway, if your source is using RGB over HDMI I would definitely set it to Extended, Expanded, or Full; you should see the difference.

Yeah, I have the HDMI2 label on the TV set to PC (that's what I was referring to as "PC Mode"). I have the RGB settings on "Auto" on the Xbox, and I switched the other setting (Reference? I can't remember what it's called) to Expanded once I labeled the TV input as PC. It never seems very dramatic when I play with that setting though, regardless of input label. Of course, it doesn't help that you have to go out to System menu to make the Standard/Expanded change.

So it sounds like I've got that part correct then..? It looks pretty good, anyway. Not washed out, or overly dark either, as some people have commented. Sometimes the blacks are close to crushing, but not quite there. Like in the "Gameplay" video for Gears of War 2. There are a lot of shadows on the backs of characters, etc, that appear very close to complete black. In Game Mode they do seem a bit more crushed then on HDMI2/PC, with settings set similar in appearance to Game Mode.
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post #463 of 663 Old 03-02-2009, 12:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dayton View Post

As far as the Dynamic Contrast setting, I like to use a setting of Low coupled with a Contrast setting of 80 for PC Mode. This keeps the picture from looking "washed out" but also from having too much contrast. But I do think that backing off Contrast and using Dynamic Contrast is better than a Contrast of 100 and Dynamic Contrast Off. Off the top of me head I think I use the following with PC Mode:

Backlight = 4
Contrast = 80
Brightness = 42 or 45 (keep changing my mind)
Dynamic Contrast = Low
Gamma = -2

I'll give those settings a try. Right now I have the Dynamic Contrast set to Medium, but I keep switching between Medium with a lower Contrast setting, and Low with a higher Contrast setting (sounds redundant, I know). The reason for this is that I first set it to Medium when trying to get as close to Game Mode as possible (just to see if I could see what it was doing, roughly). Medium gives the colours that extra bit of "pop" that I see in Game Mode BTW, the game I was using for most of this was the demo of Tomb Raider: Underworld. At the very beginning of the level, before you jump into the water to swim over to the cliff/jungle, Lara is standing on the back of a boat. The colours look awesome. Just the right amount of extra saturation for a video game (in my opinion, anyway). But when I loaded up the video of the Gears of War 2 gameplay footage, the interview at the beginning of the video looks crappy. Switching to a Dynamic Contrast setting of Low fixes this But the game colours don't look as good. Frustrating.
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post #464 of 663 Old 03-02-2009, 03:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dayton View Post

In order to get the benefit of no input lag on HDMI2, you have to keep the PC label set and the source can't be outputting 720p. I assume PC Mode is legacy so if your source is set to output RGB then you would want use Extended or Expanded. But PC Mode doesn't require a RGB source which is a bit odd. Anyway, if your source is using RGB over HDMI I would definitely set it to Extended, Expanded, or Full; you should see the difference.

As far as the Dynamic Contrast setting, I like to use a setting of Low coupled with a Contrast setting of 80 for PC Mode. This keeps the picture from looking "washed out" but also from having too much contrast. But I do think that backing off Contrast and using Dynamic Contrast is better than a Contrast of 100 and Dynamic Contrast Off. Off the top of me head I think I use the following with PC Mode:

Backlight = 4
Contrast = 80
Brightness = 42 or 45 (keep changing my mind)
Dynamic Contrast = Low
Gamma = -2

Very interesting that is what I found out when doing basic THX contrast tests and messing around with dynamic contrast and found out why Game Mode is pretty good for games.

With contrast 100 and DC off the different boxes are visible like crazy but when turn on dynamic contrast on low the boxes are not different looking so its failing and need to back down the contrast.

Got up to 85 when it started to look different but not as much as with it off and at 100. At 80 it very visible (not as much as DC off; 100) but the tests says to have it visible enough so it passes to me.

Tried out medium and high and contrast at 80 and the boxes started to become the same but still passable not too much difference.

Thing is with contrast at 100 and DC off it feels you can set it to probably 110 before it starts to clip whites lol.

You also done what I believed did improve on the washed out look by lowering the gamma lower than normal also lol.

Didn't try out dynamic contrast with lowered contrast on PC mode to see how it looks though will try it out. But if have to turn that on then might as well use game mode since it does a good job on that department.

PC mode with dynamic contrast on will probably be similar input lag wise to game mode so it defeats the purpose for people who notice the difference between pc mode and game mode input lag wise. Unless game mode looks horrible for you compared to pc mode then that's another thing lol.

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post #465 of 663 Old 03-02-2009, 03:29 PM
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Also guys I made a mistake a Samsung rep told me its not really dynamic mode with dnie turned on tailored for gaming pq wise (service menu changes) it is more like standard mode with some degree of dynamic contrast and black adjust.

The guy wouldn't tell me exactly but I do know this it has some service menu changes on it besides the reduced input lag which means probably can't reach the same image if you copy the greyed out settings on to your custom standard mode.

I'll say this when it comes to using dynamic contrast and black adjust Game Mode is using it very well better than what i can achieve on my TV when I tried too mimic it and I don't even like dynamic contrast and black adjust.

Obviously DNIe uses its own method of dynamic contrast and possibly black adjust but it doesn't look as well done as Game Mode for games IMO.


*EDIT* My blind dumbass self forgot to check out the DNIe option on to what it was greyed out to and it was set to off so the Samsung Rep was right. I can't believe I miss that since DNIe is in picture options which you can go into in Game Mode lol...

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post #466 of 663 Old 03-02-2009, 03:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Doug S79 View Post

What is the correct colour setting on the Xbox 360 over HDMI / PC Mode? Expanded? When PC Mode is enabled, the TV is expecting 0 - 255, correct? So if I switch PC Mode off, technically, I should switch the Xbox over to Standard? (which is around 7 - 235 or something?). That could perhaps be the slight difference I was seeing between my Standard and PC settings... I switched it to Expanded once I started playing around with PC Mode, and just left it.

Thanks for all of the input, folks! Much appreciated.

Doug

For using "PC Mode", you want to set the XBOX 360 to Expanded. Correct, the TV is expecting 0-255 color range (HDMI Black Level: Normal is forced, like a PC monitor). If you set the xbox back to Standard reference levels, you will want to turn PC mode off. Also make sure the TV is then set to HDMI Black Level: Low. This is key. PC Mode just forces HDMI Black Level to Normal, as it should, however you can still use non-pc mode HDMI with the Black Level at Normal for achieving full 0-255 color range (you wouldn't normally want this for TV/Blu-Ray though; those use 16-235).

Let me try to simplify for clarification:

XBOX 360:
Reference Levels: Expanded (will send 0-255)
HDMI Color Space: RGB
TV:
HDMI Black Level: Normal (will expect 0-255 and output full RGB)

XBOX 360:
Reference Levels: Standard (will send 16-235)
HDMI Color Space: RGB
TV:
HDMI Black Level: Low (will expect 16-235 and output limited RGB)

Using either of these settings will result in an accurate picture with no black crush or "washout." Hope this helps.

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post #467 of 663 Old 03-02-2009, 03:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by felonyr301 View Post

You also done what I believed did improve on the washed out look by lowering the gamma lower than normal also lol.

Kind of off topic here, but my gamma is set to -1 for all inputs. However I'm also running ZeroG's calibration settings from an a750. But I found his settings better than anything from the a630 calibration thread. With some small tweaks of course - brightness 45/contrast 99/backlight 4/sharpness 2/Standard Mode instead of Movie Mode/Color Tone Normal instead of Warm 1.

Also, I play XBOX on HDMI 1 with Game Mode. My HTPC/Gaming PC takes up my HDMI2/PC port.

If you have time and are willing, try ZeroG's calibration settings with my tweaks and tell me what you think. I use these settings for TV, and a variation of this for HDMI2/PC (can post if you want). XBOX uses Game Mode straight up.

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post #468 of 663 Old 03-02-2009, 04:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by felonyr301 View Post

Very interesting that is what I found out when doing basic THX contrast tests and messing around with dynamic contrast and found out why Game Mode is pretty good for games.

With contrast 100 and DC off the different boxes are visible like crazy but when turn on dynamic contrast on low the boxes are not different looking so its failing and need to back down the contrast.

Got up to 85 when it started to look different but not as much as with it off and at 100. At 80 it very visible (not as much as DC off; 100) but the tests says to have it visible enough so it passes to me.

Tried out medium and high and contrast at 80 and the boxes started to become the same but still passable not too much difference.

Thing is with contrast at 100 and DC off it feels you can set it to probably 110 before it starts to clip whites lol.

You also done what I believed did improve on the washed out look by lowering the gamma lower than normal also lol.

Didn't try out dynamic contrast with lowered contrast on PC mode to see how it looks though will try it out. But if have to turn that on then might as well use game mode since it does a good job on that department.

PC mode with dynamic contrast on will probably be similar input lag wise to game mode so it defeats the purpose for people who notice the difference between pc mode and game mode input lag wise. Unless game mode looks horrible for you compared to pc mode then that's another thing lol.

Yup under HDMI2/PC Mode, a Contrast of 100 just doesn't offer enough contrast if one hopes to avoid using Dynamic Contrast. I have tweaked with Dynamic Contrast Low to Medium, Contrast 80-85, and Brightness 42-45 all with a Backlight of 4 and Gamma of -2. They are all very usable but for my tastes I lean towards a Dynamic Contrast of Low. I tend to prefer moments of colors lacking a bit of pop to moments of the picture suffering from too much contrast. I should probably check what my settings are as it would suck if I posted settings that are way off, but I think they are about right.
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post #469 of 663 Old 03-02-2009, 04:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Doug S79 View Post

I'll give those settings a try. Right now I have the Dynamic Contrast set to Medium, but I keep switching between Medium with a lower Contrast setting, and Low with a higher Contrast setting (sounds redundant, I know). The reason for this is that I first set it to Medium when trying to get as close to Game Mode as possible (just to see if I could see what it was doing, roughly). Medium gives the colours that extra bit of "pop" that I see in Game Mode BTW, the game I was using for most of this was the demo of Tomb Raider: Underworld. At the very beginning of the level, before you jump into the water to swim over to the cliff/jungle, Lara is standing on the back of a boat. The colours look awesome. Just the right amount of extra saturation for a video game (in my opinion, anyway). But when I loaded up the video of the Gears of War 2 gameplay footage, the interview at the beginning of the video looks crappy. Switching to a Dynamic Contrast setting of Low fixes this But the game colours don't look as good. Frustrating.

Went with Dynamic Contrast of Low as it was to me a more universal setting, that is nothing ever looked like it suffered from too much Contrast. Though it definitely depends on user preference, and maybe what games one plays. For example Burnout Paradise looks fantastic no matter the Dynamic Contrast setting but Tales of Vesperia suffers if I go above Low.
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post #470 of 663 Old 03-02-2009, 04:23 PM
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Originally Posted by id0l View Post

XBOX 360:
Reference Levels: Expanded (will send 0-255)
HDMI Color Space: RGB
TV:
HDMI Black Level: Normal (will expect 0-255 and output full RGB)

XBOX 360:
Reference Levels: Standard (will send 16-235)
HDMI Color Space: RGB
TV:
HDMI Black Level: Low (will expect 16-235 and output limited RGB)

Using either of these settings will result in an accurate picture with no black crush or "washout." Hope this helps.

Thanks for posting that! It looks like I have my settings correct for Xbox, but actually incorrect for TV... I've got HDMI Black Level set to Normal for my cable box. I'll have to get in there and play around some more I guess. After double-checking, it appears I have my HDMI Black Level for my Cable/TV input set correctly ("Low") as well. Right on!

Does anyone have any tips for getting the stereo audio cables to work on the Xbox VGA connection? I'm borrowing the cord from a friend, and the picture is showing up, but no sound. I assumed all I had to do was plug the stereo cables into the corresponding inputs, but maybe there's a setting somewhere I need to change? Thanks in advance.

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post #471 of 663 Old 03-02-2009, 04:27 PM
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Actually, while I'm asking about VGA / Xbox help (again), does anyone have any suggestions for the TV settings while connected this way? There are a few different options in the menus than I was expecting, and I want to make the most out of my "trial run" with my friend's VGA cable. Thanks again,

Doug

PS, I can immediately see the "softer image" that DaverJ mentioned. Kinda too bad about that... I also noticed that both VGA and HDMI2/PC force you to use 16:9.. What's up with that??? Why no Just Scan? Seems like less processing + sharper image would be the obvious benefits of using Just Scan for those connections. Does anyone else find that odd?
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post #472 of 663 Old 03-02-2009, 04:44 PM
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There's only one input for PC mode, which is HDMI/DVI2. If you are using your Xbox360 in HDMI input 2 for PC Mode, you would have to unplug it to connect your laptop.

thanks for the reply, i'm confused...

since i connect my laptop with vga to the pc slot in on tv, why would i have to unplug anything if my xbox was on hdmi 2?

i was under the impression I just need to rename my hdmi 2 slot pc...
i figured i may need to switch the names back if I wanted to hook up my laptop...

sorry, I am just having a tough time with this. any help is GREATLY appreciated.

thanks
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post #473 of 663 Old 03-02-2009, 04:56 PM
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Originally Posted by Doug S79 View Post

Actually, while I'm asking about VGA / Xbox help (again), does anyone have any suggestions for the TV settings while connected this way? There are a few different options in the menus than I was expecting, and I want to make the most out of my "trial run" with my friend's VGA cable. Thanks again,

Doug

PS, I can immediately see the "softer image" that DaverJ mentioned. Kinda too bad about that... I also noticed that both VGA and HDMI2/PC force you to use 16:9.. What's up with that??? Why no Just Scan? Seems like less processing + sharper image would be the obvious benefits of using Just Scan for those connections. Does anyone else find that odd?


Don't worry it is just scan when hdmi2/pc or vga it just says 16x9 even though its the same as just scan already tested it.

16x9 in non-pc modes is overscanning but in pc mode it is the same as just scan.

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post #474 of 663 Old 03-02-2009, 05:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Doug S79 View Post

Actually, while I'm asking about VGA / Xbox help (again), does anyone have any suggestions for the TV settings while connected this way? There are a few different options in the menus than I was expecting, and I want to make the most out of my "trial run" with my friend's VGA cable. Thanks again,

Doug

PS, I can immediately see the "softer image" that DaverJ mentioned. Kinda too bad about that... I also noticed that both VGA and HDMI2/PC force you to use 16:9.. What's up with that??? Why no Just Scan? Seems like less processing + sharper image would be the obvious benefits of using Just Scan for those connections. Does anyone else find that odd?

Alright, well I don't have the VGA cable anymore for the 'box so I can't comment on what 'new' options are available on the TV while using VGA, but you are going to want Expanded Reference Levels/RGB for VGA on the xbox side, this is for sure. VGA natively outputs 0-255/RGB. The "softer image" is probably very close to what you would see using the xbox on HDMI2/PC mode (with the same dashboard settings). This is actually a "true" picture (true to the source) and bypasses any processing by the TV*. Some people think it looks worse, but it's much closer to what the actual content really looks like - if you are used to game mode/regular hdmi/etc., you may very well think it is softer. There is no edge enhancement/sharpness boosting/etc.

16:9 mode is in fact the same as "Just Scan" when you are using VGA or HDMI2/PC mode. 1:1 pixel mapping. EDIT2: Felony beat me to it, lol.

Quote:
Originally Posted by fjuno78 View Post

thanks for the reply, i'm confused...

since i connect my laptop with vga to the pc slot in on tv, why would i have to unplug anything if my xbox was on hdmi 2?

i was under the impression I just need to rename my hdmi 2 slot pc...
i figured i may need to switch the names back if I wanted to hook up my laptop...

sorry, I am just having a tough time with this. any help is GREATLY appreciated.

thanks

Don't be confused. You are doing fine Just rename HDMI 2 to PC if you want no-lag, and can deal with the [previously mentioned] "softer image."*

*The colors in HDMI2/PC can still be changed to a degree using Movie Mode/Color Tone/White Balance.

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post #475 of 663 Old 03-02-2009, 05:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fjuno78 View Post

thanks for the reply, i'm confused...

since i connect my laptop with vga to the pc slot in on tv, why would i have to unplug anything if my xbox was on hdmi 2?

i was under the impression I just need to rename my hdmi 2 slot pc...
i figured i may need to switch the names back if I wanted to hook up my laptop...

sorry, I am just having a tough time with this. any help is GREATLY appreciated.

thanks

My apologies for confusing you. I connect my PC to this TV with a DVI-to-HDMI converter, and I incorrectly assumed you connected your laptop the same way.

I'm not sure how the analog VGA connection works in PC Mode when there's something digital plugged into HDMI/DVI2 port labeled "PC". Anyone else know?

EDIT - looks like id0l has the answer.


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post #476 of 663 Old 03-02-2009, 05:15 PM
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Originally Posted by DaverJ View Post

My apologies for confusing you. I connect my PC to this TV with a DVI-to-HDMI converter, and I incorrectly assumed you connected your laptop the same way.

I'm not sure how the analog VGA connection works in PC Mode when there's something digital plugged into HDMI/DVI2 port labeled "PC". Anyone else know?

EDIT - looks like id0l has the answer.

thanks both of you... my laptop is a few years old, i just have vga on it.

so i shouldn't have to go jump through hoops to switch between laptop and 360? i was thinking about naming my pc input something like "laptop"...

i should get my cables within a couple of days, and I will know for sure.
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post #477 of 663 Old 03-02-2009, 05:32 PM
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Originally Posted by fjuno78 View Post

thanks both of you... my laptop is a few years old, i just have vga on it.

so i shouldn't have to go jump through hoops to switch between laptop and 360? i was thinking about naming my pc input something like "laptop"...

i should get my cables within a couple of days, and I will know for sure.

No, you should be fine. When you plug in the VGA cable the TV will call it PC, but you can name this PC connection to whatever (there's a set list of names and Laptop isn't on my a630). Say you set it to A/V Reciever for example. When you select the source i.e. Laptop, you would be selecting "PC A/V Reciever".

If you connect your xbox to HDMI2/DVI, you can name this to PC. Then when you select the source i.e. xbox 360 you select "HDMI2/DVI PC".

Now, hopefully I'm not being a tard and completely misunderstanding your questions.

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post #478 of 663 Old 03-02-2009, 08:50 PM
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No, you should be fine. When you plug in the VGA cable the TV will call it PC, but you can name this PC connection to whatever (there's a set list of names and Laptop isn't on my a630). Say you set it to A/V Reciever for example. When you select the source i.e. Laptop, you would be selecting "PC A/V Reciever".

If you connect your xbox to HDMI2/DVI, you can name this to PC. Then when you select the source i.e. xbox 360 you select "HDMI2/DVI PC".

Now, hopefully I'm not being a tard and completely misunderstanding your questions.


thanks! that's exactly what I was wondering... im not the biggest gamer, but halo 3 was pretty lousy w/ component, and the game mode isn't to my liking... i really appreciate it
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post #479 of 663 Old 03-03-2009, 12:48 AM
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So if I understand clearly, component is a no go even on game mode. I would bo only using component cables on my xbox (since it's an older model without hdmi).

Input lag od 30ms is a maximum, that a street fighter fan can live with.
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post #480 of 663 Old 03-03-2009, 08:59 AM
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So if I understand clearly, component is a no go even on game mode. I would bo only using component cables on my xbox (since it's an older model without hdmi).

Input lag od 30ms is a maximum, that a street fighter fan can live with.

I would think component using Game Mode would be okay... According to the results in the first post of this thread, that would yield between 15-25 milliseconds of input lag. Even at 25 ms, that's only 1/40th of a second... I don't know for sure, but I don't think this would cause any noticeable problems (I did ask for input/feedback on this exact question in a previous post, but haven't heard either way on if it's noticeable).

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