Samsung LNxxA650 Gamer's (Input Lag) Thread - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 663 Old 01-19-2009, 11:10 AM - Thread Starter
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I created a this thread in an effort to create a FAQ/Information section to post in the Official Samsung LNxxA650 Owner's Thread and hopefully add to the first informational post in that thread.

Please feel free to add any additional or missing information you think might be helpful.

Please keep in mind that this is meant to be a mostly factual and informational discussion and keep the discussion limited to this scope.

I think this will help reduce some of the repetitive questions/discussion with regards to input lag and gaming while still allowing us to keep the information and questions within Official Samsung LNxxA650 Owner's Thread.

I want to make it clear that my hope and intention is NOT to create a separate and ongoing thread/discussion from the owners thread but rather collaborate in providing a single point (within the Official Samsung LNxxA650 Owner's Thread) to answer a great majority of the questions with regards to the A650 and input lag / gaming.

Perhaps this will strike a happy medium for all looking for information regarding the LNXXA650.

Here is what I have so far.

=======================================================

Gaming

The A650 can be great for gaming but you should understand a few of it's features in order to configure the A650 for the best performance or picture quality based on your preferences.

If you are playing games that are not affected by input lag or if you have no concern for it, you will likely want to use either standard or movie mode as this will give you the greatest control over the picture quality. If this is the case, you can feel comfortable using any input (or input type) to help you obtain the picture quality that best meets you viewing preference.

If you are playing games that are affected by input lag or if you do have concern for it, you will want to read the section below regarding input lag and use one of the methods described to reduce/eliminate it. Those options will allow you to bring the A650 into the same realm of performance offered by your typical computer monitor. Please note that using any of those methods eliminates some of the settings available to you and may require a sacrifice in picture quality. This is the result of reducing signal processing in order to achieve faster response times.


Below are a few specific notes for the major consoles.

Xbox 360
- The Xbox 360 is capable of outputting 480P, 720P or 1080P. The Xbox 360 (unlike the PS3) will upscale the source (game/dvd) to the resolution set in the display settings section on the Xbox system console. As described below, you may want to set your Xbox to output 1080P, if you would like to take advantage of the HDMI2/PC feature. If you are using the HDMI2/PC feature and you have the Xbox set to output 480P or 720P, the A650 will disable the PC mode feature and return to normal operation (and therefore increase the signal processing time). If you are using your Xbox 360 and HDMI2/PC, you may want to set Reference Levels (under Display on your Xbox console to "Expanded".
The other options (Game mode or VGA) to reduce input lag are discussed below. A VGA connection is available for the Xbox but requires you to purchase an additional adapter.
This adapter can be found here.
http://www.xbox.com/en-US/hardware/x/xbox360vgahdcable/
It typically costs $30-$40.

Please note that it appears the Xbox 360 must be in 1080P for the 650 to accept the signal. If the Xbox 360 is set to 480P or 720P the 650 will return a message stating "mode not supported".


Playstation 3
- The PS3 operates different from the Xbox 360. The PS3 will output the source format. This means that, if you are playing a 480P or 720P title (game/dvd), and trying to utilize the HDMI2/PC feature it will not work and will not reduce the signal processing (input lag).


Wii - I don't have one. Anyone have any input?



Input Lag

There are a few important things to understand about the A650 with regards to input lag.

Normal, Standard and Dynamic (to a lesser degree) modes offer significant control over the picture settings and therefore increase signal processing. Therefore these settings increase the time the A650 takes to process a signal and display it. This delay (or signal processing time) are what "input lag" refers to. Under normal modes (Normal, Standard and Dynamic) this delay can range from 40ms to 120+ms depending on your settings. This is typically only relevant (noticeable) in games with a significant dependence on accurate timing of controller actions. Examples of these types of games are first person shooters (Call of Duty, Halo, etc), music games (Rockband, Guitar Hero, etc.) and some sports or fighting games (MLB, Madden, Street Fighter, etc.).


This signal processing time (Input Lag) can be reduced through various features of the A650 or by using specific connection setups. Each of those options are discussed below.

VGA Connection - This option eliminates nearly all signal processing because it assumes you are using a personal computer and that processing is taking place by the computer hardware (graphics card). Since it eliminates nearly all signal processing, it also disables many picture settings (due to eliminating that portion of the processing) and limits the control the A650 has over the overall picture quality. Based on testing, this offers the best results in eliminating input lag.

VGA mode typically reduces input lag to 0-8ms.

Please note, 480P (720x480 or 702x480) and 720P (1280x720) do not work with VGA and return the message "mode not supported".
Also, many 16:9 and 16:10 resolutions would not display properly on the 650 and returned a "mode not supported" message.


The following resolutions did work.
640x480
800x600
1024x768
1280x1024
1360x768 (wasn't expecting that to work; very close to a 16:9 resolution)
1776x1000 (detected as 1920x1080)


HDMI2/PC - This is accomplished by connecting your gaming console to the HDMI2 input and then going into the menu and under the the Input section selecting Edit Name. Once in the Edit Name menu, you select HDMI2 and change the name to PC. This enables a special mode only available to the HDMI2 input that is similar (but not identical) to the VGA connection described above. It eliminates some signal processing (and therefore control of some picture settings) just like the VGA connection.

HDMI2/PC mode typically reduces input lag ranging from 6-60ms. You must pay special attention to your configuration when trying to optimize HDMI2/PC.

There is one important feature to note for the HDMI2/PC mode. When using this "feature" it will not work for any source the A650 senses as providing a 480P or 720P signal. This applies to the Wii, the PS3 (for non 1080P titles and Blu-Ray 24Hz), the Xbox 360 (if not set to display 1080P) or any computer providing a 480P or 720P resolution. Under these circumstances, the A650 will disable the PC mode feature and return to normal processing making all settings for Standard, Movie, Dynamic and the 3 E.Modes available. HDMI2/PC will work for all other resolutions tested (including 1080P). We can only assume this is done to prevent your average consumer from naming their source to PC and inadvertently disabling certain features and possibly degrading picture quality for standard DVD players and home theater products. You can easily check if PC mode is active by pressing the E.Mode button. If you get the response box stating "not available" this means that the PC mode feature is active. If you are able to change the E.Mode, PC mode is not active and the A650 is operating under normal processing.

In HDMI2/PC mode you still have Standard, Movie and Dynamic modes available but you lose the ability to control the following settings:
Sharpness, Color, Tint (G/R), Black Adjust, Color Space, Flesh Tone, Edge Enhancement, xvYCC, Digital NR, DNIe, HDMI Black Level, Film Mode, Blue Only Mode and Auto Motion Plus. Many of these settings are disabled because they are irrelevant for PC inputs.

Game Mode - Game mode is similar to the previous two options but does not require a specific connection type. Game mode is enabled by pressing the E.Mode button until you see the Game mode is active. Again, this eliminates signal processing (input lag) and limits the control over many picture settings.

Game mode typically reduces input lag to 15-25ms.

In game mode you lose the ability to control the following settings:
Backlight, Contrast, Brightness, Sharpness, Color, Tint (G/R), All Detailed Settings, Color Tone, DNIe, Blue Only Mode and Auto Motion Plus.
One method for controlling the Backlight while in Game mode is to adjust the Energy Saving setting under the Setup menu.

=======================================================

Summary of Test Results
Here is a quick summary of the testing that was done. Thank you Cynn for helping compile and organize it.

First a couple of notes:

-PC testing is the best form of lag tests. Console specific tests can be flawed. This also provides better consistency by using the same source for all resolutions and connection types.
-For reference, here are the specs for the PC. Q6600 (@3.2 OC), 4GB G.Skill RAM (@1066), ATI 4850 (@defaults).
-These tests are done comparing the LN46A650 (FW 2004.0) to a Dell SP2208WFP 2ms Response time monitor. During 1080P testing, the monitor was operating in it's native resolution.

-16.6ms of lag = 1 frame or refresh cycle at 60hz. We'll round down to 16ms for these test results so they will be slightly better than posted but not enough different to notice.

PERSPECTIVE: So that people better understand the speeds we are talking about when discussing milliseconds, here are some common speeds to consider.

-The average speed of a human eye blink is 300-400ms

-It takes 50ms for an image you see to be relayed from the eye to the brain.

_________________________________________________

VGA mode / 1080p.

Average lag: 0-8ms
0.0-0.5 frame delay.
Average FD: 0.3 Frame (~a third of a frame)
59.7 cycles per second (of 60)
Zero/Undetectable lag to humans.
(approved for pro level gaming)

VGA mode / any PC resolution accepted by the 650. 480P and 720P will not work in VGA.

Average lag: 0-8ms
0.0-0.5 frame delay.
Average FD: 0.3 Frame (~a third of a frame)
59.7 cycles per second (of 60)
Zero/Undetectable lag to humans.
(approved for pro level gaming)

HDMI2 PC mode / 1080p.

Average lag: 6-15ms
0.3-1 frame delay.
Average FD: 0.6 Frame (~half a frame)
59.5 cycles per second (of 60)
Zero/Undetectable lag to humans.
(approved for pro level gaming)

HDMI GAME mode / 1080p.

Average lag: 15-25ms
1-2 Frame delay.
Average FD: 1.5 Frame
58.5 cycles per second (of 60)
Detectable lag only for remarkably sensitive people.
(approved for pro level gaming)

HDMI Movie Mode / 1080p / No image enhancers activated.

Average lag: 50-60ms
3-4 frame delay
Average FD: 3.5 Frame
56.5 cycles per second (of 60)
Detectable lag for most serious game players especially in the fighting/first person game types.
(NOT approved for pro level gaming)

HDMI Standard Mode / 1080p / No image enhancers activated.

Average Lag: 50-60ms
3-4 frame delay
Average FD: 3.5 Frame
56.5 cycles per second (of 60)
Detectable lag for most serious game players especially in the fighting/first person game types.
(NOT approved for pro level gaming)

Component Standard Mode / 1080p / No image enhancers activated.

Average Lag: 80-100ms
5-6 frame delay
Average FD: 5.5 Frame
54.5 cycles per second (of 60)
Detectable lag for most game players especially in the fighting/first person game types.
(NOT approved for pro level gaming)

Component GAME mode / 480p.

Average lag: 15-25ms
1-2 Frame delay.
Average FD: 1.5 Frame
58.5 cycles per second (of 60)
Detectable lag only for remarkably sensitive people.
(approved for pro level gaming)
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post #2 of 663 Old 01-19-2009, 12:11 PM
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Man this sucks...I thank you for the report...

I have my 360 connected to HDMI 2 and name it GAME....I like to tweak my settings to get the best picture quality....

I play tons of Madden and NBA Live and COD...I dont see lag but then again I could be and just dont notice it..

I tried to rename it PC but I hate the washed out look of it...Is like I paid good money for weaker display for my gaming..

I also did not notice any lag on PC or Game.....

Why did you put Madden as a game that is known to suffer from input lag...

That is what I play the most next to COD 5
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post #3 of 663 Old 01-19-2009, 12:42 PM - Thread Starter
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I think it is much less relevant in Madden when compared to CoD. At least in my experience.

I notice it in CoD because I have played it regularly since release (CoD4). Prior to getting my 650, it was always on my Dell monitor. I had over a year of regular exposure under those circumstances. When I first hooked up my Xbox to the 650 it was immediately noticeable to me. At that time my Xbox was set to 720P and the 650 was in standard mode. Once I researched and tested the 650 with my PC and a stopwatch, I saw the results to confirm this. I then switched the Xbox back to 1080P and changed the HDMI2 input to PC. This immediately fixed the delay and my testing again confirmed it. Personally the "washed out" look would bother me much less than the delay. I play CoD for competition not to look at the beautiful textures of a concrete wall or color depth of the trees in the back drop.

I have a friend that has a Sony XBR and he has some delay as well. So this issue is not unique to the Samsung line or the LNXXA650. Fortunately you can control it if you desire to.
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post #4 of 663 Old 01-19-2009, 12:58 PM
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Gmanvbva, you may want to try setting your black level on the 360 to extended. This should help with the washed out look. When you rename the input to PC, the TV expects the extended color levels that a PC puts out.

I have read that the extended color levels are off when using HDMI though. Only VGA does it properly. There is a thread about it somewhere, I am just too lazy to dig for it.

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post #5 of 663 Old 01-19-2009, 01:12 PM
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Guys I read in a few other forums that the best hdmi color space on the 360 dashboard is the YCB709 thingy and others here say is best at RGB and others say is best set to source...

When I put it at YCB or whatever those letters are...the reference level darkens but is still on normal and the hdmi black level for hdmi is greyed out to normal...but it has the darker look of having it on low or the reference level at exapnded..

When I put it at RGB or source or Auto i have to put the settings to expanded and hdmi black level to normal to get the same look

which of these is the best for this tv....in terms of ycb or auto or source or rgb and why?
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post #6 of 663 Old 01-19-2009, 01:13 PM
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Great post. You may want to be a little more detailed about Game Mode and emphasize that it effectively disables ALL settings and controls and is locked in an Edge Enhanced, Sharpness Jacked, Cool Blue Torch Mode of sorts. As it reads now, the suggestion is that it's as customizable and functional as VGA/PC modes
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post #7 of 663 Old 01-19-2009, 01:22 PM
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Good idea but I personally think this is not needed since in a week or two I bet you that this thread will be lost in the so many threads that gets put up and one wont be able to find it so they will ask in the main thread of the tv regardless.

Also game mode is not stuck on cool settings only it has exactly what standard has cool2, cool1, and normal color tones. Which for most people like myself use at least normal color tones for gaming since it's not a movie so it doesn't really look best in the warmer colors.

Backlight can be controlled by the use of energy saver mode so put that up as well. If your gonna put up information about game mode and pc mode at least let it be accurate lol.

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post #8 of 663 Old 01-19-2009, 01:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NJPapi1977 View Post

Guys I read in a few other forums that the best hdmi color space on the 360 dashboard is the YCB709 thingy and others here say is best at RGB and others say is best set to source...

When I put it at YCB or whatever those letters are...the reference level darkens but is still on normal and the hdmi black level for hdmi is greyed out to normal...but it has the darker look of having it on low or the reference level at exapnded..

When I put it at RGB or source or Auto i have to put the settings to expanded and hdmi black level to normal to get the same look

which of these is the best for this tv....in terms of ycb or auto or source or rgb and why?


Personally I put up source since it's best imo because rgb is what gets used for games and movies is best in ycbcr since they use that color space. Using source will automatically switch between the two.

If your leaving it on hdmi2/pc mode or vga when watching movies then leave it on rgb mode all the time. Don't know why one would leave hdmi2/pc mode for movies though lol.

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post #9 of 663 Old 01-19-2009, 01:51 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tree Dude View Post

Gmanvbva, you may want to try setting your black level on the 360 to extended. This should help with the washed out look. When you rename the input to PC, the TV expects the extended color levels that a PC puts out.

I have read that the extended color levels are off when using HDMI though. Only VGA does it properly. There is a thread about it somewhere, I am just too lazy to dig for it.

I have mine set to expanded and (personally) do not feel the picture quality is "washed out". It is slightly brighter than my movie mode settings but I prefer it that way for gaming.
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post #10 of 663 Old 01-19-2009, 01:52 PM
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I have the 750 and I use game mode when I play games on my ps3. Game mode works and looks great, in my opinion.

Back off man, I'm a scientist.
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post #11 of 663 Old 01-19-2009, 01:58 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by felonyr301 View Post

Good idea but I personally think this is not needed since in a week or two I bet you that this thread will be lost in the so many threads that gets put up and one wont be able to find it so they will ask in the main thread of the tv regardless.

Also game mode is not stuck on cool settings only it has exactly what standard has cool2, cool1, and normal color tones. Which for most people like myself use at least normal color tones for gaming since it's not a movie so it doesn't really look best in the warmer colors.

Backlight can be controlled by the use of energy saver mode so put that up as well. If your gonna put up information about game mode and pc mode at least let it be accurate lol.

I plan on this thread dieing once I have most of the information presented properly. I will post this in the owners thread and request if be added to the first post.

The point of this thread is for others to help me with portions that I have no personal experience with or things that are missing/inaccurate.

It is a work in progress for now.
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post #12 of 663 Old 01-19-2009, 02:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by felonyr301 View Post

Personally I put up source since it's best imo because rgb is what gets used for games and movies is best in ycbcr since they use that color space. Using source will automatically switch between the two.

If your leaving it on hdmi2/pc mode or vga when watching movies then leave it on rgb mode all the time. Don't know why one would leave hdmi2/pc mode for movies though lol.

I dont use HDMI/PC I use HDMI 2 Standard labeled Game......I like to use your settings which are cool......
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post #13 of 663 Old 01-19-2009, 02:26 PM
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First off, I have a 630, but I'm assuming it's the same internally as the 650.

I use a 360 via VGA, and experience no observable input lag. My test are purely done "in-game" so I don't have exact measurement in ms, but this is a great way to go for 360 gamers.

This picture DOES look a bit washed out, and you MUST set the 360 on "expanded" and fiddle with the brightness/contrast. After doing this, it will look as colorful as can be. Tell you the truth, I feel the 360 looks a bit "smoother" compared to Component output (I don't have an HDMI 360, can't comment)

Infact, a gamer friend of mine said how much he hated playing COD4 on an LCD recently found it more than playable on my set, and did quite well. YMMV

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post #14 of 663 Old 01-19-2009, 02:40 PM
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Good thread. Does this apply to A630, A750, A850 and perhaps A950?
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post #15 of 663 Old 01-19-2009, 02:57 PM
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Are you sure the HDMI Black Level setting is affected by the HDMI2/PC label? I don't know as I haven't tried, but it shouldn't. This option SHOULD be available for RGB sources and greyed out for YCbCr sources. This adjusts the range from 0-255 (Normal) and 16-235 (Low).
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Does anyone know if the 630 has the same input lag issues as the 650...I have my choice between the two...40 inch 630 is 1199 and 40 inch 650 is 1249.
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post #17 of 663 Old 01-19-2009, 04:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nmate2oo2 View Post

Does anyone know if the 630 has the same input lag issues as the 650...I have my choice between the two...40 inch 630 is 1199 and 40 inch 650 is 1249.


Their are the same internally except for the fact that the 650 has a little better picture quality because of the glossy screen. If you having the tv in a brightly lit room almost all the time then the 630 might be better choice because it doesn't glare as much but personally I would get the 650 and try to put the tv away from the windows

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post #18 of 663 Old 01-19-2009, 05:26 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rahzel View Post

Are you sure the HDMI Black Level setting is affected by the HDMI2/PC label? I don't know as I haven't tried, but it shouldn't. This option SHOULD be available for RGB sources and greyed out for YCbCr sources. This adjusts the range from 0-255 (Normal) and 16-235 (Low).

I had my Xbox set to Auto or source and it was grayed out (while at the system console) for both. I listed the options grayed out by actually going through and checking each one to see what was not available. I'm not sure if it becomes available if I load up a game or dvd. I will have to check that.
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post #19 of 663 Old 01-19-2009, 05:28 PM
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I know that with the PS3, HDMI2/PC mode will not work for any source the A650 sees as 480P or 720P. But there is no mention of the VGA input having the same limitation. Is it the same way?

Does anyone have any experience with either of these?

http://www.gefen.com/kvm/dproduct.jsp?prod_id=5284
http://www.gefen.com/kvm/dproduct.jsp?prod_id=4174

Looks like they would solve the PS3 issue if the VGA acts the same way as HDMI2/PC Mode... the strange thing is that they require you to send it in for firmware updates. I guess I'll go looking for some reviews, but hopefully when the 650 arrives I will be fine with game mode & not need to spend another $300+.
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post #20 of 663 Old 01-19-2009, 05:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rahzel View Post

Are you sure the HDMI Black Level setting is affected by the HDMI2/PC label? I don't know as I haven't tried, but it shouldn't. This option SHOULD be available for RGB sources and greyed out for YCbCr sources. This adjusts the range from 0-255 (Normal) and 16-235 (Low).

From my experience I would say the HDMI2/PC is at legacy RGB, or 0-255. You definitely want to run the 360 at Enhanced and the PS3 at Full when using PC mode.
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post #21 of 663 Old 01-19-2009, 05:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by d34dl1n3r View Post

I know that with the PS3, HDMI2/PC mode will not work for any source the A650 sees as 480P or 720P. But there is no mention of the VGA input having the same limitation. Is it the same way?

Does anyone have any experience with either of these?

http://www.gefen.com/kvm/dproduct.jsp?prod_id=5284
http://www.gefen.com/kvm/dproduct.jsp?prod_id=4174

Looks like they would solve the PS3 issue if the VGA acts the same way as HDMI2/PC Mode... the strange thing is that they require you to send it in for firmware updates. I guess I'll go looking for some reviews, but hopefully when the 650 arrives I will be fine with game mode & not need to spend another $300+.

My guess would be that using vga when gaming on the 360 would work regardless of what resolution is set within what's available through the 360's options while under vga.

I figured though if you run 1280x720 (720p) while in vga using the 360 it will have the lowest input lag but might increase a little more than when you use 1080p since the tv has to upscale to it's 1080p native resolution.

The problem is that ps3 from what I can remember doesn't officially support vga since they don't offer a vga cable unless I'm mistaken there. So doing something unofficial like getting an hdmi to vga cable might not work the same as when using the vga cable for the 360 since they officially support it or it could...

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post #22 of 663 Old 01-19-2009, 05:46 PM
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Originally Posted by d34dl1n3r View Post

I know that with the PS3, HDMI2/PC mode will not work for any source the A650 sees as 480P or 720P. But there is no mention of the VGA input having the same limitation. Is it the same way?

Does anyone have any experience with either of these?

http://www.gefen.com/kvm/dproduct.jsp?prod_id=5284
http://www.gefen.com/kvm/dproduct.jsp?prod_id=4174

Looks like they would solve the PS3 issue if the VGA acts the same way as HDMI2/PC Mode... the strange thing is that they require you to send it in for firmware updates. I guess I'll go looking for some reviews, but hopefully when the 650 arrives I will be fine with game mode & not need to spend another $300+.

Here is a link to 1080, and therefore HDMI2 - PC Mode compatible games:
http://boardsus.playstation.com/play...43717#M1543717

For me VGA is not a practical solution for the PS3 as I want the advanced audio over HDMI and so everything needs to pass through my Denon amplifier. I try and only play 1080 capable PS3 games which is easy for me to do as I mostly game via the 360 which has no limitations as far as 1080 capable gaming.
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post #23 of 663 Old 01-19-2009, 05:49 PM
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Originally Posted by Dayton View Post

From my experience I would say the HDMI2/PC is at legacy RGB, or 0-255. You definitely want to run the 360 at Enhanced and the PS3 at Full when using PC mode.


When running hdmi2/pc I believe it greys out the hdmi black level to normal since pc mode runs in 0-255 range so yea you would have to have the 360 in expanded and ps3 rgb to full.

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post #24 of 663 Old 01-19-2009, 05:55 PM
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Originally Posted by felonyr301 View Post

When running hdmi2/pc I believe it greys out the hdmi black level to normal since pc mode runs in 0-255 range so yea you would have to have the 360 in expanded and ps3 rgb to full.

That would make sense, and if it is grayed out with the PC label applied, it's probably preset to 0-255 as that is generally what PC's use. However, whenever this option is grayed out it always says "Normal". So when you're viewing a source and it's grayed out and says "Normal", don't always assume it's actually 0-255.

Anyway, Samsung should have left this option open as both Nvidia and ATI now give you the option to switch between 0-255 and 16-235.
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post #25 of 663 Old 01-19-2009, 06:30 PM
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Originally Posted by felonyr301 View Post

I figured though if you run 1280x720 (720p) while in vga using the 360 it will have the lowest input lag but might increase a little more than when you use 1080p since the tv has to upscale to it's 1080p native resolution.

No, your TV has to scale everything to 1080p internally to display it. When you send it 720p it has to work to make a 1080p version for display. When you send it 1080p it has to do nothing and is in a "native" state.

The Xbox it's self was made to scale the images and does so well enough so that you should not concern yourself with it.

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post #26 of 663 Old 01-19-2009, 06:39 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Cynn View Post

No, your TV has to scale everything to 1080p internally to display it. When you send it 720p it has to work to make a 1080p version for display. When you send it 1080p it has to do nothing and is in a "native" state.

The Xbox it's self was made to scale the images and does so well enough so that you should not concern yourself with it.

This is correct and holds true for regular computer LCD monitors as well. That's why it is always best to use the native resolution (for picture quality and performance).
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post #27 of 663 Old 01-19-2009, 06:41 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by felonyr301 View Post

I figured though if you run 1280x720 (720p) while in vga using the 360 it will have the lowest input lag but might increase a little more than when you use 1080p since the tv has to upscale to it's 1080p native resolution.

No, when upscaling to 1080P the burden is put on the Xbox and as Cynn pointed out the 650 is receiving it's native resolution.
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post #28 of 663 Old 01-19-2009, 07:06 PM
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You all read what I wrote wrong...

I was talking about being in 720p 'while under VGA with the 360' will probably be the lowest input lag you can get for 720p but it will be a little more than when you use 1080p while in vga which is the native resolution mode.

It's always best to run in it's native resolution everyone knows that...

I was trying to help out the guy asking about the ps3 with vga... running in vga is always in "PC Mode" so regardless of what resolution is being used it will have the lowest input lag possible while using 'that resolution'.

Since it's not in it's native resolution it would add a little more lag since it will upscale it to it's native resolution which is 1920x1080 (1080p).

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post #29 of 663 Old 01-19-2009, 07:12 PM
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Originally Posted by rahzel View Post

That would make sense, and if it is grayed out with the PC label applied, it's probably preset to 0-255 as that is generally what PC's use. However, whenever this option is grayed out it always says "Normal". So when you're viewing a source and it's grayed out and says "Normal", don't always assume it's actually 0-255.

Anyway, Samsung should have left this option open as both Nvidia and ATI now give you the option to switch between 0-255 and 16-235.

I know that I'm just saying since it's PC mode was made for PC use it would probably be set to 0-255 range.

Normal can be greyed out with other things also so I'm not going to assume for other things when it is greyed out it will also be using 0-255 range.

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post #30 of 663 Old 01-19-2009, 07:56 PM
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These are what I am using with HDMI 2 named PC

Standard

Back Light 6

Contrast 100

Brightness 28-30

Dynamic Contrast Low

the rest all default....

and Color at Normal....

Looks good and no input lag...


I also put the 360 reference level to standard and hdmi space to source

With expanded source level I was having horrible black crush on my madden game

so i just put it at normal and lowered the brightness and raised the dynamic to low....looks just right
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